SynopsisThe Post describes the issues and the reasoning behind each of the proposed changes, but will not discuss reworks to the identity of the Deadeye Specialization or contain changes to anything other than its Traits. The detailed reasoning will be provided in the Post, but the general idea of changes include the following:

• Adept:
  • To rework "Malicious Intent" which would deal extra damage to marked targets based on Malice as a replacement for "Premeditation"
  • To rework "Collateral Damage" into "Blinding Exit" which would inflict blindness around the player and daze at the defeated Mark
  • To replace the effect of "One in the Chamber" with the original effect of "Malicious Intent"
• Master:
  • To adjust "Silent Scope" which would apply an effect that slowly converts Malice after a period of Stealth as a form of "diminishing returns"
  • To rework "Payback" into "Resourceful" which would restore a portion of recharge on hitting Stolen Skills and on kill
  • To replace "Premeditation" with "Perfected Art" which would provide bonus concentration and grant Stolen Skills upon casting a Cantrip
• Grandmaster:
  • To adjust "Iron Sight" which would reduce the damage reduction against marked targets and slightly reduce the damage dealt to other foes, but in exchange for slightly reduced damage taken from other foes

If interested in the details, please read the relevant sections. For any effect that involves numbers or grants boons, just assume the most logical scenario and take specifications lightly. Unfortunately, theorycrafting could only take me so far, regardless of how much effort is put into research.

Changelog:

• 03:33 13 December 2018 - Posted Discussion with changes for all Adept Traits, all Master Traits, and "Iron Sight"
• 11:08 13 December 2018 - Addressed unexpected interactions of "Maleficent Seven" with other proposed changes
• 16:30 13 December 2018 - Adjusted "Into the Shadows" to be consistent in its application of the effect
• 16:40 13 December 2018 - Adjusted descriptions to clarify that "Meld with Shadows" is not the focus in case of misunderstandings
• 19:45 14 December 2018 - Included a synopsis before the Post as advised
• 09:32 15 December 2018 - Highlighted some key points in bold

Intro

Despite being declared a "destruction of fantasy" (maybe indeed), I believe that Deadeye can be considered viable to some degree after its rework on 8 May 2018. The rework of Malice generated more interesting gameplay, while the streamlining of Skills further enhanced the experience. However, despite the steady progress towards fulfilling the theme of a desert bounty hunter, I believe that problems still exist.

Here are my thoughts, regarding mentioned issues and potential solutions for the Traits of the Deadeye Specialization, after a week of looking into various Discussions of varying perspectives, and iterating over designs until it reasonably addresses the concerns.

It will not discuss reworks to its identity or contain changes to anything other than the Traits of the Deadeye Specialization.

The Paths of Thieves

Let's talk about Daredevil, an Elite Specialization focused on the improvements to evasion and close quarter combat capabilities. The minimal survival tools needed are provided by the Minor Traits that improve endurance and evasion, while additional damage and survivability may be selected from Major Traits. It exists as a balance between offense and defense, while excelling at both. The Daredevil Specialization can be considered "Acrobatics on Steroids", with access to Core Specialization to build upon its balanced capabilities.

On the other hand, Deadeye revolves around the use of Deadeye's Mark to generate Malice through active combat and deal lethal strikes through Malicious Stealth Attacks. While the Minor Traits focus on the mechanics of the Mark, which is a utility that is neither offensive nor defensive (with the exception of "Iron Sight"), the Major Traits hold a variety of effects that mainly serve as utility. Although synergy exists, the effects of each Trait are slightly underwhelming or not refined.

It is understandable that the Specialization has an emphasis on dealing damage, but its defensive advantages are comparatively simple to overcome. Despite the ease of Stealth brought about by the Specialization, it is not an effective form of defense when faced with the abundance of Area of Effect attacks in the current environment. Unlike Daredevil, the current state of the Deadeye Specialization does not have a sufficient foundation without Traits from Core Specializations, but has the potential of being obnoxious once supplemented by them.

Suggestions

Unlike the reworked Malice and Weapon Skills, the reworked Traits seemingly remain in a slightly "incomplete" state. While synergy exists and should exist, defensive and utility Traits should not feel like an underwhelming choices when picked alone. The following suggestions aim to improve defensive choices and to promote flexibility by restructuring the synergy between Traits, while attempting to retain the various playstyles.

Major Adept

Malicious Intent

• Damage dealt to your Mark is increased by 1% for each stack of Malice you have.The original effect of Malice before the rework encouraged waiting before engaging and was completely removed. Although similar with an increase in damage, the new effect does not counteract the design of interactive gameplay. While the ultimate goal of generating Malice is to enhance Stealth Attacks or to gain Stealth from Stolen Skills, it should still feel rewarding without being a decisive element along the way.

Malice is consistently generated through active combat and would be a relatively steady factor, unlike "Premeditation" where damage is reliant on boons. Additionally, the reliance is transformed into a synergy that would provide an additional 2% from "Maleficent Seven", while the maximum of 5% could be reached quickly through "Be Quick or Be Killed".

The original effect of "Malicious Intent" will be discussed later.

Blinding Exit (Replacing Collateral Damage)

• If your Mark is defeated, trigger "Burst of Shadows" at its location while blinding foes at your location.

Burst of Shadows: Invoke a damaging explosion of shadows that dazes nearby foes.The naming of "Collateral Damage" suggests that the Trait serves as a form of cleave. The effect is triggered when the Mark is defeated and unleashes an Area of Effect damage that blinds foes. However, melee builds do not lack cleave, while the application of blind holds little value to ranged builds.

The new effect would daze foes at the Mark's location and inflict blindness around the Deadeye. While the original "Burst of Shadows" serves well in melee or supportive builds, it could be more effective as a brief daze that cancels channels. The inflicted blindness of "Blinding Exit" remains useful in other builds and seeks to address the survival of ranged builds when caught in a war, where it might be worth taking the risk in defeating a Mark. It should serve as the defensive option among Adept Traits, being a simple but meaningful choice regardless of melee, ranged, or supportive builds.

"Blinding Exit" refers to leaving the stage in a burst of smoke after completing the performance. (Contract Complete.)

One in the Chamber

• Upon marking a target or striking your Mark with a Stealth Attack, 1 stack of Malice will be granted immediately.The original effect of "Malicious Intent" replaces the effect of "One in the Chamber" and remains as a strong choice by reducing the number of Skill casts required to reach the maximum threshold. However, the changes to "Malicious Intent" and "Blinding Exit" make them attractive choices for a variety of builds as well. It will become a decision between damage, defense, or efficiency.

"One in the Chamber" is a fitting description for the visualized counter with 1 in 5/7 Chambers of Malice.

Major Master

Into the Shadows (Replacing Silent Scope)

• Vanish in Stealth when you dodge roll with a rifle equipped, and gain "Silent Scope" after a short duration in Stealth.
• Precision is increased, and gain additional precision while wielding a rifle.

Silent Scope: While under this effect, consume Malice to gain boons periodically. (This is removed when you break Stealth.)Despite being viewed as a "Free Stealth" by some, it effectively trades an evade for an attempt to perform Death's Judgement. While its synergy with Shadow Arts enabled "Permastealth", the damage that may or may not come after a long anxious wait for a Deadeye that may or may not be there causes distress.

The strategic and logical use of "Silent Scope" is understandable, thus access to Stealth through evasion is retained and can still be used offensively. However, the easy access of Stealth is intended as the survival tool for Deadeye as opposed to the evasion provided to Daredevil, such that its use should be focused on re-positioning or escape. The use of "Permastealth" is more than enough for re-positioning in combat and often led to obnoxious experiences for others.

"Into the Shadows" is an attempt at addressing the problematic aspect of the defensive playstyle, while retaining the core mechanics of the original "Silent Scope". The consumption of Malice to "grant boons" (or anything as long as it's meaningful) is an attempt at discouraging excessive periods of Stealth through diminishing returns, without punishing the access to Stealth through evasion. As such, the synergy with Shadow Arts remains in the form of unique utilities provided, with less emphasis on duration of Stealth. The changes to "Silent Scope" only introduces diminishing returns, while the mechanic is kept without additional conditions in its use. It is possible to remain in "Permastealth", but at the cost of the depletion of Malice which could be regenerated at ease.

Regarding the potential interaction that enables re-stacking in quick succession, the above change should include an internal recharge in "Maleficent Seven". The recharge time should be reset upon landing a Stealth Attack, which should be an integral step in usual rotations, such that the recharge time would not affect normal gameplay and remain unnoticeable.

Resourceful (Replacing Payback)

• If your Mark is defeated, restore 10% of the recharge time needed by your Healing, Utility, and Elite Skills.
• Upon hitting your Mark with a Stolen Skill, restore 5% of the recharge time needed by your Healing, Utility, and Elite Skills.While the effect of "Payback" is effective in sustaining fights against multiple targets, it is hardly triggered against targets that cannot be directly defeated. Thus, often rendered useless and incomparable against the damage from "Premeditation" or the Stealth from "Silent Scope".

The new effect reduces the restoration upon kill, but guarantees that 5% of the recharge time can be restored after marking a target (by landing the Stolen Skill). The increase in reliability and the synergy with "Improvisation" of Deadly Arts should allow it to compete with other Master Traits.

Perfected Art (Replacing Premeditation)

• While a target is marked, gain a random new Stolen Skill when you cast a Cantrip. (This overwrites existing Stolen Skills.)
• Concentration is increased.Despite the potential of "Premeditation" to reach the maximum of 12% damage with 12 unique boons, it cannot be maintained at an impactful state without allies (or "Maleficent Seven"). It is even less reliable after the changes to the active effect of Signet of Inspiration of Mesmers. With the damage increase reworked into "Malicious Intent", the Trait is replaced to fulfill the original promise of improving boon-sharing builds.

The change addresses the need for Stolen Skills and boon duration in boon-sharing builds, where its refined identity as a utility for boon access makes it viable in other builds as well. Instead of attempting to maintain damage, the concentration provided additional boon duration granted by Stolen Skills. The dependencies to support "Fire for Effect" is reduced from 2 Traits to a choice between "Perfected Art" or "Improvisation" of Deadly Arts, which allows more flexible builds for boon-sharing.

"Perfected Art" refers to the perfected art of theft which is able to steal with mere cantrips (i.e. mischievous or playful acts; a trick).

Minor Grandmaster

Iron Sight

• While against your Mark, damage dealt is increased by 10% and damage taken is reduced by 5%.
• While a target is marked but against other foes, damage dealt and damage taken are reduced by 5%.As an Elite Specialization focused on single target combat, it excels at small scale encounters. However, when a skirmish turns into a full-out war, it may be impossible to survive long enough for a retreat while Skills are recharging.

The ease of access to Stealth should be sufficient to survive against a lone Mark. While retaining its single target damage capabilities, a portion of the defense is traded for additional survivability in wars. Additionally, the damage dealt to foes other than your Mark is also reduced in compensation. Thus, it allows more focus to be placed on completing bounties or escaping, whereas foes are encouraged to obstruct attacks with reduced damage.

Conclusion

Unlike Daredevil with its emphasis on damage and survival, Deadeye is focused on its resourcefulness in addition to damage. It has further access to Stealth and various situational tools at its disposal, and its Traits should continue to focus on such.

Although indirect changes are often the solution to problems, I believe that the issues for Deadye lie within the Specialization itself and should be addressed directly. While some players may suggest others to simply move away, it is not a valid solution and is simply avoiding the problem. The changes aim to refine damage factors, provide minimal survival tools, and discourage obnoxious gameplay, while retaining the identity of the Elite Specialization.

Feedback and reasoned discussions are greatly appreciated. Hopefully, the thread would be able to reach the eyes of relevant individuals of ArenaNet and the concerns mentioned would be taken into consideration on the next iteration.

@"Nodius Caelestis.3892" said:

Major Master

Into the Shadows (Replacing Silent Scope)

• Vanish in Stealth and gain "Silent Scope" when you dodge roll with a rifle equipped, also gain "Silent Scope" after a short duration in Stealth.

• Precision is increased, and gain additional precision while wielding a rifle.

  Silent Scope: While under this effect, consume Malice to gain boons periodically. (This is removed when you break Stealth.)you should think about what this will do in WvW, with m7. i can then build up my malice, go into stealth, let 1-2 malice be consumed for even more boons (not sure wich) and then open with a usual bindind shadows (animation is still hidden from stealth) , skirmishers shot into DJ (you can use DJ while skirmishers is still in the air). the boons and basically 14 ini gained are a bit overkill. if the malice is allways consumed instantly, that means i will have a double proc every time i enter stealth with dodge.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Nodius Caelestis.3892" said:

Major Master

Into the Shadows

(Replacing

Silent Scope

)

• Vanish in Stealth and gain "Silent Scope" when you dodge roll with a rifle equipped, also gain "Silent Scope" after a short duration in Stealth.
  • Precision is increased, and gain additional precision while wielding a rifle.
  Silent Scope
  : While under this effect, consume Malice to gain boons periodically. (This is removed when you break Stealth.)you should think about what this will do in WvW, with m7. i can then build up my malice, go into stealth, let 1-2 malice be consumed for even more boons (not sure wich) and then open with a usual bindind shadows (animation is still hidden from stealth) , skirmishers shot into DJ (you can use DJ while skirmishers is still in the air). the boons and basically 14 ini gained are a bit overkill. if the malice is allways consumed instantly, that means i will have a double proc every time i enter stealth with dodge.

The idea is to consume "offensive" Malice into "defensive" boons. Malice should be consumed after a brief delay with just enough time for players to perform Stealth Attacks with 7 Malice, but the delay should give the usual 3 second Stealth enough time to consume at least 1 Malice.

While Initiative has a limit, thank you for pointing out the problem of stacking boons with "Maleficent Seven". For the mentioned issue, a simple solution would be to give "Maleficent Seven" an internal cooldown that is reset upon landing a Stealth Attack or when all stacks of Malice expires. It could be assumed that Stealth Attacks are integral steps in normal attack rotations, and all stacks of Malice are naturally consumed when performed. Thus, the internal cooldown should not affect normal gameplay and should be unnoticeable unless the above mentioned technique is attempted to re-stack.

I hope this addresses your concerns regarding the admittedly excessive granting of boons that was overlooked.

Add a trait that increases the range of all thief ranged weapon skills, and slightly nerf rifle skill range to compensate

Bring back Ricochet

@Nodius Caelestis.3892 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Nodius Caelestis.3892 said:

Major Master

Into the Shadows

(Replacing

Silent Scope

)

• Vanish in Stealth and gain "Silent Scope" when you dodge roll with a rifle equipped, also gain "Silent Scope" after a short duration in Stealth.
  • Precision is increased, and gain additional precision while wielding a rifle.
  Silent Scope
  : While under this effect, consume Malice to gain boons periodically. (This is removed when you break Stealth.)you should think about what this will do in WvW, with m7. i can then build up my malice, go into stealth, let 1-2 malice be consumed for even more boons (not sure wich) and then open with a usual bindind shadows (animation is still hidden from stealth) , skirmishers shot into DJ (you can use DJ while skirmishers is still in the air). the boons and basically 14 ini gained are a bit overkill. if the malice is allways consumed instantly, that means i will have a double proc every time i enter stealth with dodge.

yup it would adress it. now to my opinion on such a change :)while defensive boons are nice to have, i dont think the rifle deadeye does need them much when running that trait compared to pretty much any other thief weapon. with rifle your defense is mainly from kiting using your range, uninterruptable stealth access and DR, even projectile hate is build in, kiting is alot easier than avoiding attacks in melee. so either provide access to those defensive boons to any weapon or none, imo. if you want a consume malice for defensive boons one could make it either another profession skill (f3) or add it to the mercy utility. i am also not sure why i would need those defensive boons when i am already 2+ seconds in stealth and worse if i want several of them later i need to remain long in stealth are their durations long enough to actually have all 7 defensive boons when i leave stealth? (aside from people already complaining about remaining in stealth too long during fights because of SA trait design, dont need to add on that)

or another option would be:while you have a rifle you gain stealth on dodge, if you have any other weapon you cosume X malice for defensive boons on dodge.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Nodius Caelestis.3892 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Nodius Caelestis.3892 said:

Major Master

Into the Shadows

(Replacing

Silent Scope

)

• Vanish in Stealth and gain "Silent Scope" when you dodge roll with a rifle equipped, also gain "Silent Scope" after a short duration in Stealth.
  • Precision is increased, and gain additional precision while wielding a rifle.
  Silent Scope
  : While under this effect, consume Malice to gain boons periodically. (This is removed when you break Stealth.)you should think about what this will do in WvW, with m7. i can then build up my malice, go into stealth, let 1-2 malice be consumed for even more boons (not sure wich) and then open with a usual bindind shadows (animation is still hidden from stealth) , skirmishers shot into DJ (you can use DJ while skirmishers is still in the air). the boons and basically 14 ini gained are a bit overkill. if the malice is allways consumed instantly, that means i will have a double proc every time i enter stealth with dodge.

Regarding the consumption of Malice:

@Nodius Caelestis.3892 said:

Into the Shadows

(Replacing

Silent Scope

)

• Vanish in Stealth and gain "Silent Scope" when you dodge roll with a rifle equipped, also gain "Silent Scope" after a short duration in Stealth.
• Precision is increased, and gain additional precision while wielding a rifle.

Silent Scope

: While under this effect, consume Malice to gain boons periodically. (This is removed when you break Stealth.)[...] While its synergy with Shadow Arts enabled "Permastealth", the damage that may or may not come after a long anxious wait for a Deadeye that may or may not be there causes distress.

The consumption of Malice is aimed at discouraging prolonged periods of Stealth, which has been a problematic synergy between Shadow Arts and "Silent Scope" that induces miserable experiences for others. While retaining its use as an easy access for Stealth Attacks, the progressive loss in maximum damage (when Stealth is excessively extended) would form a situation were trade offs have to be considered.

If the effect simply depleted the Malice earned by a player, it would be overly punishing the choice of a defensive playstyle. Therefore, as Stealth is meant as a form of "defensive mechanic", it is suggested that the Malice is converted into "defensive" boons instead. It may also reduce reliance on Shadow Arts for defensive builds depending on the defensive boons granted while under the new effect. However, the synergy with Shadow Arts remains and players are free to remain in Stealth for 40 days and 40 nights, but at the cost of no Malice when they break Stealth.

or another option would be:while you have a rifle you gain stealth on dodge, if you have any other weapon you cosume X malice for defensive boons on dodge.

The goal isn't to provide defensive boons at the cost of Malice, but to deplete Malice (hence maximized damage) meaningfully when Stealth is excessively extended. It's a potential solution that does not involve trying to change everything else but "Silent Scope" itself.

@Nodius Caelestis.3892 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Nodius Caelestis.3892 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Nodius Caelestis.3892 said:

Major Master

Into the Shadows

(Replacing

Silent Scope

)

• Vanish in Stealth and gain "Silent Scope" when you dodge roll with a rifle equipped, also gain "Silent Scope" after a short duration in Stealth.
  • Precision is increased, and gain additional precision while wielding a rifle.
  Silent Scope
  : While under this effect, consume Malice to gain boons periodically. (This is removed when you break Stealth.)you should think about what this will do in WvW, with m7. i can then build up my malice, go into stealth, let 1-2 malice be consumed for even more boons (not sure wich) and then open with a usual bindind shadows (animation is still hidden from stealth) , skirmishers shot into DJ (you can use DJ while skirmishers is still in the air). the boons and basically 14 ini gained are a bit overkill. if the malice is allways consumed instantly, that means i will have a double proc every time i enter stealth with dodge.

@Nodius Caelestis.3892 said:[...] While its synergy with Shadow Arts enabled Stealth for prolonged periods, the damage that may or may not come after a long anxious wait for a Deadeye that may or may not be there causes distress.

[...] Instead of simply depleting Malice while in Stealth, it is periodically consumed for boons while under the effect of "Silent Scope". The easy access of Stealth is intended as the survival tool for Deadeye as opposed to the evasion provided to Daredevil, thus its use should be focused on re-positioning or escape. However, prolonged periods of Stealth is more than enough for re-positioning in combat and often lead to obnoxious experiences for others. [...]

i use shadow arts not for anything those defensive boons could provide : condi remove , more speed than swiftness , boon rip.but you know what i am usually on the other side of this conversation so i will just let others explain to you why its bad to even further diminish the options to counterpressure a rifle deadeye :)

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Nodius Caelestis.3892 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Nodius Caelestis.3892 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Nodius Caelestis.3892 said:

Major Master

Into the Shadows

(Replacing

Silent Scope

)

• Vanish in Stealth and gain "Silent Scope" when you dodge roll with a rifle equipped, also gain "Silent Scope" after a short duration in Stealth.
  • Precision is increased, and gain additional precision while wielding a rifle.
  Silent Scope
  : While under this effect, consume Malice to gain boons periodically. (This is removed when you break Stealth.)you should think about what this will do in WvW, with m7. i can then build up my malice, go into stealth, let 1-2 malice be consumed for even more boons (not sure wich) and then open with a usual bindind shadows (animation is still hidden from stealth) , skirmishers shot into DJ (you can use DJ while skirmishers is still in the air). the boons and basically 14 ini gained are a bit overkill. if the malice is allways consumed instantly, that means i will have a double proc every time i enter stealth with dodge.

@Nodius Caelestis.3892 said:[...] While its synergy with Shadow Arts enabled Stealth for prolonged periods, the damage that may or may not come after a long anxious wait for a Deadeye that may or may not be there causes distress.

[...] Instead of simply depleting Malice while in Stealth, it is periodically consumed for boons while under the effect of "Silent Scope". The easy access of Stealth is intended as the survival tool for Deadeye as opposed to the evasion provided to Daredevil, thus its use should be focused on re-positioning or escape. However, prolonged periods of Stealth is more than enough for re-positioning in combat and often lead to obnoxious experiences for others. [...]

Just for clarification on the effect, it's not supposed to (and cannot) replace Shadow Arts and does not (and should not) remove it as an option. The change retains the strategic and logical use of the original "Silent Scope", and only attempts to discourage "Permastealth".

I'm slightly confused by the wording of the last statement.

If the concern is on the capability of the Deadeye to counter pressure, I believe that it's definitely not through "Permastealth" (which is still possible to accomplish but with diminishing returns), since the Specialization has better tools than that. The proposed changes have no impact on normal re-positioning, escape, or travel.

If the concern is on the capability of other Professions to counter the pressure of Deadeye, then it's just a matter of compatibility. For those with trouble against Stealth, the introduction of diminishing returns to "Permastealth" actually provides a chance at counterplay due to the reduced damage potential. Otherwise, the change should not have any significant impact, which depends on the boons (or any effect) that ArenaNet decides to provide (if the change ever takes place).

However, I understand that we have different ideas on what works and what doesn't, so I can only wait for others to enlighten me on what you're trying to imply.

just to clarify i was not talking about the deadeyes option to counter pressure, but others to counter pressure the deadeye.