WvW role moving forward?

What do people see? What do we have left to offer? Glamour, cc, can we contribute any significant damage? Boosting short lived boons to 5 seconds could be powerful, but require excellent timing. We definitely don't need concentration anymore unless it benefits us personally.

5 skills are usefull. So... No there is no real future for mesmer in wvw. Damage is too unreliable to focus on and cc is well great, but not enough to varant a spot in comp.

Boosting for 5 seconds is irrelevant, because most of the stuff is stripped not timed out.

Also parties need a source of fury,...

I ask myself same question. I was playing as support chrono in WvW. Now what?

Go back to playing a full glass pick class with group stealth

I am back to Herald. Otherwise just swap to Firebrand.

Or just go roaming I suppose. I personally don't roam though.

Why do you care if you are accepted or not? It's not like raid or fractal where you can be kicked, in WvW noone can kick anyone so you can play with whatever you want without worrying about your "role".And since noone cares about winning but only about farming and 11111 in WvW, you have nothing to worry, you'll do great than most players by just having exotic gear :)

@"Zaraki.5784" said:Why do you care if you are accepted or not? It's not like raid or fractal where you can be kicked, in WvW noone can kick anyone so you can play with whatever you want without worrying about your "role".And since noone cares about winning but only about farming and 11111 in WvW, you have nothing to worry, you'll do great than most players by just having exotic gear :)

You don't seem to understand that WvW has a really established and vibrant culture of guilds and guild groups. They organize their comps to optimize performance and playing something that's not delivering is an issue. It's actually a problem for big WvW players. Not all of them play casually in the way you're describing.

@"Zaraki.5784" said:Why do you care if you are accepted or not? It's not like raid or fractal where you can be kicked, in WvW noone can kick anyone so you can play with whatever you want without worrying about your "role".And since noone cares about winning but only about farming and 11111 in WvW, you have nothing to worry, you'll do great than most players by just having exotic gear :)

Wait, you arent the zaraki?

@"Zaraki.5784" said:Why do you care if you are accepted or not? It's not like raid or fractal where you can be kicked, in WvW noone can kick anyone so you can play with whatever you want without worrying about your "role".And since noone cares about winning but only about farming and 11111 in WvW, you have nothing to worry, you'll do great than most players by just having exotic gear :)

Who said anything about caring about acceptance?

I just saw top guilds PMA + FWD engage in a full map Zerg fight with another top guild AHMA + KNM at reset earlier.

The PMA guild's driver was a Chrono.

The results were spilt with both sides winning about 4 times each before I logged.

I lay at the side and observed what the Chrono driver did. He basically blinked near the tail end of the enemy group and dropped well and pulled them to trap the stragglers in place while his group bombed them.He also veiled when needed when manoeuvring. and I suppose portal would have been used if the opportunity arised though I did not see it then.

I think that shows a Chrono is still wanted in a Zerg comp.

I play Chrono in zergs for a while now, even in a progressive guild. I can say this to all WvW Chrono players: You can still play Chrono if you like using 4 skills with a ridiculous long cooldown in public zergs. If you want to provide the best to your guild/zerg, switch to another support class - seriously. There is no need for more than 1 chrono in a 50 man zerg and that is because of the Veil (stealth) you put down.You can't counter the booncorrupt/boonstrip anymore (which is absolutely insane in WvW) so a big part of your usefullness is completely gone.

They should revert patch from a bit ago to give Mesmer group super speed again. It severely lacks any group support atm in WvW.

All of it’s group support has pretty much been nerfed and wells are worthless unless they get revamp to work more like pulses from scourge f5.

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:I just saw top guilds PMA + FWD engage in a full map Zerg fight with another top guild AHMA + KNM at reset earlier.

The PMA guild's driver was a Chrono.

The results were spilt with both sides winning about 4 times each before I logged.

I lay at the side and observed what the Chrono driver did. He basically blinked near the tail end of the enemy group and dropped well and pulled them to trap the stragglers in place while his group bombed them.He also veiled when needed when manoeuvring. and I suppose portal would have been used if the opportunity arised though I did not see it then.

I think that shows a Chrono is still wanted in a Zerg comp.No, that shows that chrono is still usable when backed up by a guild. Not that its "wanted" in a "zerg" comp. Its mostly still because there is no replacement for veil.

Been playing Mesmer since prelaunch , before people bandwagoned on Mesmer after chrono came out and the Mesmer rework. Before boon share mesmers still ran veil+portal.

It's no different now , except you get gravity well if chrono, mantra of concentration that's been improved , and a revamped mimic. There's also feedback , mantra of resolve, and null field.

Keep in mind with no investment in healing power you get healing from inspiration traitline by shattering (making scepter auto better as well as all clone traits such as Chronophantasma , Illusionary reversion, and deceptive evasion) , which makes Illusionary Inspiration more useful if you decide to run that (for non shatter focused builds), and blurred inscriptions is free aegis for your party if you run the signet heal , Signet of Midnight/Signet of Domination on condi builds.

If you decide to go with mirage , you can still run portal , veil, and mantras but the cooldown won't be affected by alacrity or continuum split. The nature of clones makes condi more potent (especially staff clones).

That said it would be nice if the idea of the wells applying every tick similar to necro wells were implemented. In their current state you need 3 seconds delay which is only acceptable in PvE.

@Infusion.7149 said:Been playing Mesmer since prelaunch , before people bandwagoned on Mesmer after chrono came out and the Mesmer rework. Before boon share mesmers still ran veil+portal.

It's no different now , except you get gravity well if chrono, mantra of concentration that's been improved , and a revamped mimic. There's also feedback , mantra of resolve, and null field.

Keep in mind with no investment in healing power you get healing from inspiration traitline by shattering (making scepter auto better as well as all clone traits such as Chronophantasma , Illusionary reversion, and deceptive evasion) , which makes Illusionary Inspiration more useful if you decide to run that (for non shatter focused builds), and blurred inscriptions is free aegis for your party if you run the signet heal , Signet of Midnight/Signet of Domination on condi builds.

If you decide to go with mirage , you can still run portal , veil, and mantras but the cooldown won't be affected by alacrity or continuum split. The nature of clones makes condi more potent (especially staff clones).

That said it would be nice if the idea of the wells applying every tick similar to necro wells were implemented. In their current state you need 3 seconds delay which is only acceptable in PvE.

You are comparing vanilla to PoF... Are you serious? Even in last year or so of vanilla mesmers were used as focus party and not as veilbots...

Even with ticking wells you wouldn't be good, still need to stand in it for the duration.

I know of at least one player that only plays Mesmer and only plays WvW. So this idea of warranting a spot is irrelevant unless you have people that play Mesmer only when it is OP or if you have a hard limit on number of players (GvG).

Mesmer will still have a place in WvW until another class can invis 20+ people better or portal people in and out of keeps or across chokepoints. There's plenty of classes that can do damage, but no class can turn the tide like a mesmer portal behind an unsuspecting group or via wasting all the enemy damage via fake veil push. You just don't stack one to two per party (guardian) or one per 5-10 (herald). You certainly don't stack them pretending they're scourges. People that actually have been playing Mesmer will keep playing it instead of complaining about every patch. Before Desert BL changes (marked debuff) I used to hide in keeps for multiple hours waiting for a commander tag (before "scout" designation in squad shared rewards) to flip keeps so Mesmer is truly a thankless profession.

Besides that, mesmers in roaming are one of the stronger classes. Not every class has to be optimal for zerging.

i still run chrono in wvw guild group where it shine.in zergs maybe as not as before but small groups of 15 or so is still very good to have running full minist stat.veil is good for engagingmantra of concentration for stabhealing mantra with water runes will heal every 10 sprepare mantra will healgravity well for bombsportalsfocus for pullsand moreyes boon is nerfed and chrono is not the boon share machine but it is still viable in wvw havoc/small groups

While my non-meta Mirage build was nerfed a bit (Jaunt...RIP my cleanse and axe damage) Im still roaming and killing peeps. I run a DPS (Marauder/Valk) Axe/Torch + GS. Still fun to play and still typically gets my kills. Only downside is now im 1 condi cleanse less. (theres a running joke that I am the reason Axe DPS damage was nerfed as no one I have talked to has seen a pure DPS Mirage use axe lol)

@"Infusion.7149" said:I know of at least one player that only plays Mesmer and only plays WvW. So this idea of warranting a spot is irrelevant unless you have people that play Mesmer only when it is OP or if you have a hard limit on number of players (GvG).

Mesmer will still have a place in WvW until another class can invis 20+ people better or portal people in and out of keeps or across chokepoints. There's plenty of classes that can do damage, but no class can turn the tide like a mesmer portal behind an unsuspecting group or via wasting all the enemy damage via fake veil push. You just don't stack one to two per party (guardian) or one per 5-10 (herald). You certainly don't stack them pretending they're scourges. People that actually have been playing Mesmer will keep playing it instead of complaining about every patch. Before Desert BL changes (marked debuff) I used to hide in keeps for multiple hours waiting for a commander tag (before "scout" designation in squad shared rewards) to flip keeps so Mesmer is truly a thankless profession.

Besides that, mesmers in roaming are one of the stronger classes. Not every class has to be optimal for zerging.

I only play mesmer and only play wvw. But atm, i just don't play, there are other factors than this change, but still, i see no point in playing. I am competative person and a GvG hardcore player. There is no reason to play mesmer, outside of 5 skills and 3 of those can be replaced by someone else.

I've been playing mesmer for 6 years and i'm going to complain about bad nerfs. Chrono didn't need a nerf in wvw. You didn't even want one in every party(firebrand) or 2 per party(scourge).

Nerfing mesmer, actually it wasn't a nerf, it was complete destruction of whole type of builds for mesmer. You can't play support mesmer anymore...

@SloRules.3560 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:I know of at least one player that only plays Mesmer

and

only plays WvW. So this idea of warranting a spot is irrelevant unless you have people that play Mesmer only when it is OP or if you have a hard limit on number of players (GvG).

Mesmer will still have a place in WvW until another class can invis 20+ people better or portal people in and out of keeps or across chokepoints. There's plenty of classes that can do damage, but no class can turn the tide like a mesmer portal behind an unsuspecting group or via wasting all the enemy damage via fake veil push. You just don't stack one to two per party (guardian) or one per 5-10 (herald). You certainly don't stack them pretending they're scourges. People that actually have been playing Mesmer will keep playing it instead of complaining about every patch. Before Desert BL changes (marked debuff) I used to hide in keeps for multiple hours waiting for a commander tag (before "scout" designation in squad shared rewards) to flip keeps so Mesmer is truly a thankless profession.

Besides that, mesmers in roaming are one of the stronger classes. Not every class has to be optimal for zerging.

If you think that highly of what is basicly an extravagant extra in the same style as... well, every class other than guard, necro and rev... then you're just confirming the reason it was nerfed.

Mesmer still has other applications on other builds. Support doesnt always mean cheesing boons for a group. The mesmer can easily stand on its own.

Not to mention people still run it. We had a single minstrel chrono dumping constant alacrity and quickness the other day when running golems to backcap. Plenty of boons. Maybe not all the boons but plenty.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@SloRules.3560 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:I know of at least one player that only plays Mesmer

and

only plays WvW. So this idea of warranting a spot is irrelevant unless you have people that play Mesmer only when it is OP or if you have a hard limit on number of players (GvG).

Mesmer will still have a place in WvW until another class can invis 20+ people better or portal people in and out of keeps or across chokepoints. There's plenty of classes that can do damage, but no class can turn the tide like a mesmer portal behind an unsuspecting group or via wasting all the enemy damage via fake veil push. You just don't stack one to two per party (guardian) or one per 5-10 (herald). You certainly don't stack them pretending they're scourges. People that actually have been playing Mesmer will keep playing it instead of complaining about every patch. Before Desert BL changes (marked debuff) I used to hide in keeps for multiple hours waiting for a commander tag (before "scout" designation in squad shared rewards) to flip keeps so Mesmer is truly a thankless profession.

Besides that, mesmers in roaming are one of the stronger classes. Not every class has to be optimal for zerging.

Running golems????? Are you kitten serious?

@SloRules.3560 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@SloRules.3560 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:I know of at least one player that only plays Mesmer

and

only plays WvW. So this idea of warranting a spot is irrelevant unless you have people that play Mesmer only when it is OP or if you have a hard limit on number of players (GvG).

Mesmer will still have a place in WvW until another class can invis 20+ people better or portal people in and out of keeps or across chokepoints. There's plenty of classes that can do damage, but no class can turn the tide like a mesmer portal behind an unsuspecting group or via wasting all the enemy damage via fake veil push. You just don't stack one to two per party (guardian) or one per 5-10 (herald). You certainly don't stack them pretending they're scourges. People that actually have been playing Mesmer will keep playing it instead of complaining about every patch. Before Desert BL changes (marked debuff) I used to hide in keeps for multiple hours waiting for a commander tag (before "scout" designation in squad shared rewards) to flip keeps so Mesmer is truly a thankless profession.

Besides that, mesmers in roaming are one of the stronger classes. Not every class has to be optimal for zerging.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@SloRules.3560 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@SloRules.3560 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:I know of at least one player that only plays Mesmer

and

only plays WvW. So this idea of warranting a spot is irrelevant unless you have people that play Mesmer only when it is OP or if you have a hard limit on number of players (GvG).

Mesmer will still have a place in WvW until another class can invis 20+ people better or portal people in and out of keeps or across chokepoints. There's plenty of classes that can do damage, but no class can turn the tide like a mesmer portal behind an unsuspecting group or via wasting all the enemy damage via fake veil push. You just don't stack one to two per party (guardian) or one per 5-10 (herald). You certainly don't stack them pretending they're scourges. People that actually have been playing Mesmer will keep playing it instead of complaining about every patch. Before Desert BL changes (marked debuff) I used to hide in keeps for multiple hours waiting for a commander tag (before "scout" designation in squad shared rewards) to flip keeps so Mesmer is truly a thankless profession.

Besides that, mesmers in roaming are one of the stronger classes. Not every class has to be optimal for zerging.

You don't get it do you? You don't need specific build to ppt, you do need it to fight actual enemy players. So no, mesmer is not fine, just because it can help you ppt faster.

Chrono is pretty awful in WvW groups right now. I play with arguably one of the most effective comped guilds in the game, and we've been evaluating chronos for our comp.

They still bring useful utility in the form of veil, gravity well, and signet of inspiration. However, that's it. Previously you could replace another pillar class with Chrono; that's no longer true. Now you have to consume a dps spot for the Chrono, and that makes them harder to justify.

Ultimately, we still run chronos sometimes. They're decent to drive on still, as firebrand driver doesn't gracefully provide party support anyway, but fitting one into the rest of the comp is very difficult. We've been running without any chronos but the driver, and that feels pretty good. It still allows us to have veil without sacrificing too much. We've also been running more just without chronos at all. Lacking veil is unfortunate, but really it just means we need to be more careful with how we engage. Long term, I don't think we're going to use Chronos on a regular basis, just for niche stuff.

Then to touch on a different aspect of this change, one part of this comp change was driven by the fact that Chrono is miserable to play in WvW groups now. You drop veil, you hit soi, you use gravity well and focus pull, and you press shield 5. Congratulations, you're done. You can't provide more boons. You can't heal. You can't provide effective stability. You can't deal damage. You just jam your thumb up your ass and watch the rest of your group play the game for the next minute. After the first day of this, every single person on Chrono in the group remarked that it sucked and they'd rather not ever play it again.

@SloRules.3560 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@SloRules.3560 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@SloRules.3560 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:I know of at least one player that only plays Mesmer

and

only plays WvW. So this idea of warranting a spot is irrelevant unless you have people that play Mesmer only when it is OP or if you have a hard limit on number of players (GvG).

Mesmer will still have a place in WvW until another class can invis 20+ people better or portal people in and out of keeps or across chokepoints. There's plenty of classes that can do damage, but no class can turn the tide like a mesmer portal behind an unsuspecting group or via wasting all the enemy damage via fake veil push. You just don't stack one to two per party (guardian) or one per 5-10 (herald). You certainly don't stack them pretending they're scourges. People that actually have been playing Mesmer will keep playing it instead of complaining about every patch. Before Desert BL changes (marked debuff) I used to hide in keeps for multiple hours waiting for a commander tag (before "scout" designation in squad shared rewards) to flip keeps so Mesmer is truly a thankless profession.

Besides that, mesmers in roaming are one of the stronger classes. Not every class has to be optimal for zerging.