Scepter: Clunky & Unfun?

First of all: I'm not talking about scepter's damage output. This post is about its functionality and animations/visuals.

I've been using scepter on my mesmer since forever. It was never very convenient to use, but I'm just in love with scepter as a weapon type, and I honestly dislike mesmer's gs and sword.Scepter's issues were always there, but they were bearable. But now that PoF came out and mesmers got axe which is so beautiful visually, I almost can't stand scepter anymore.

1) Its autoattack's animations and visuals are so bad. I don't know about you, but every time I use it I feel like some Novice from School of magic, not like a dangerous mind mage. Parts 1 and 2 of scepter's auto shouldn't be projectiles, and part 3 could use 2 different animations (similar to necro's scepter).

2) Scepter #2 is barely usable in open world pve. I'm certain it's useless in raids/fractals (even tho I don't do them). This skill could use some rework imo.

3) Confusing Images ought to be reliable AoE around your target (please, do not tell me its current beam is AoE, this "aoe" is a joke). It can even deal less damage to other foes, i don't care, just give this weapon one and only AoE skill, please.

And what do you guys think? Do you find scepter fun? Please remember: I'm not talking about this weapon's pve damage output, as I have no idea about it (because, as I've mentioned before, I do not raid). What are your thoughts on it?Thanks for reading. Cheers.

Both scepter 2 and 3 are very powerfull skills in WvW - buffing them in PvE is a really bad idea as it would automatically overpower them in WvW. Its really only the autoattack thats crappy, same as any other slow projectile auto it just doesnt work right.

Tbh I think scepter is fine. It's one of my fav weapons for mesmer.I do think the #3 skill is rather "eh" though. Especially with Mirage. I feel like it needs to give more confusion stacks, especially considering how easy it is to dodge. IF it lands I think you should be rewarded with more confusion.

I think the auto attack animation is ok but I feel more like the sound effect on the scepter auto attack doesn't really feel like a magic attack. Sounds more like someone hitting a wall with a piece of wood.

When it comes to clunky & unfun... I more or less disagree with that.

@Dawdler.8521 said:Both scepter 2 and 3 are very powerfull skills in WvW - buffing them in PvE is a really bad idea as it would automatically overpower them in WvW. Its really only the autoattack thats crappy, same as any other slow projectile auto it just doesnt work right.

Or they could just separate these skills' pve versions from pvp/wvw versions just like they have done to some other skills. And although giving Scepter 3# an AoE component is a buff, reworking Scepter #2 doesn't have to be. I just see this skill as rather boring and uninspirational (trigger on block sucks in PVE, too)

@glenndevis.8327 said:Tbh I think scepter is fine. It's one of my fav weapons for mesmer.I do think the #3 skill is rather "eh" though. Especially with Mirage. I feel like it needs to give more confusion stacks, especially considering how easy it is to dodge. IF it lands I think you should be rewarded with more confusion.

I think the auto attack animation is ok but I feel more like the sound effect on the scepter auto attack doesn't really feel like a magic attack. Sounds more like someone hitting a wall with a piece of wood.

When it comes to clunky & unfun... I more or less disagree with that.

I love scepter too, but it doesn't mean it's flawless to me.Honestly, I don't know if scepter needs more numbers. Maybe. To my mind, its main need is some flow; this weap is not fancy or glamorous AT ALL.And yeah, I agree on auto's sound. Forgot to mention it.

It's my fav too. Scepter 2 blocks , sword 4 blocks, shield blocks have been pivotal for running glass Mesmer even in open world pve for POF and so on soloing hard hitting champs and bounties and swarms of intense mobs. Those blocks on low cd have been very helpful. Why is it not helpful? U don't need toughness or vitality with such active defense and can control when to go full offense or when to block. The on block clones and auto clones are such good shatter fodder and constant aoe. The animation is also quite extravagant though looks very violent for a scepter wand weapon... It's like whacking something really hard lol all in all I like it and don't feel like it needs functional changes at all

I enjoy scepter for the single target hybrid dueling weapon it is; but, like Bart I have always dreamed of something a bit different. Something a little more elegant, a little more caster oriented while staying true to the weapon's primary themes. Here are some ideas similar to ones I had posted long ago:

Ether Pulse - 1.5 sec channel. Channel a beam of energy that damages and torments your foe.Damage: (3x, 0.5)Torment (3x): 4 secTorment applied by clones is halved in duration.Number of Targets: 3900 range(Animation: Banish Enchantment)

Illusionary Counter - 1.5 sec channel, 10 sec cd. Channel energy around you, blocking incoming attacks. Torment foes whose attacks you block. If an attack is blocked, gain access to Counterspell.Block: 1.5 secTorment (1x per block): 8 sec900 range(Animation: Ether Renewal with swirling pink orbs)

Counterspell: 0.25 sec cast, 3 sec window. Damage and blind your foe with a retaliatory hex.Damage: (1.0)Blind: 5 sec900 range(Animation: offhand point)

Confusing Images: 0.75 sec cast, 12 sec cd. Blast an area with energy, confusing foes and summoning illusions. Inflict blind instead if you have the maximum number of illusions.Damage: (1.0)Confusion (3x): 7 secBlind: 5 secNumber of Targets: 3240 radius900 range(Animation: Feast of Corruption with butterflies instead of chomp image. AOE graphic like the newish Chaos Armor discharge. Sound: shatter)

Scepter 2 negates an attack, dumps conditions on your target, and deals a nice bit of damage. It also instantly gives you an illusion to shatter.How can you not love it?

@LSD.4673 said:Scepter 2 negates an attack, dumps conditions on your target, and deals a nice bit of damage. It also instantly gives you an illusion to shatter.How can you not love it?

It creates a clone, which overrides phantasms and is therefore bad for group PvE.In PvE (again), there are less chances to block attacks.

@Bod.8261 said:

@LSD.4673 said:Scepter 2 negates an attack, dumps conditions on your target, and deals a nice bit of damage. It also instantly gives you an illusion to shatter.How can you not love it?

The problem is phantasms, not scepter.

@Levetty.1279 said:

@Bod.8261 said:

@LSD.4673 said:Scepter 2 negates an attack, dumps conditions on your target, and deals a nice bit of damage. It also instantly gives you an illusion to shatter.How can you not love it?

Not really. If all clone summoning skills get the Ether Clone treatment, "does something else when you already have 3 illusions", these could be used without the need to redesign essentially the whole class.

@Bod.8261 said:

@Levetty.1279 said:

@Bod.8261 said:

@LSD.4673 said:Scepter 2 negates an attack, dumps conditions on your target, and deals a nice bit of damage. It also instantly gives you an illusion to shatter.How can you not love it?

The phantasm vs. shattering problem will still remain. I do agree, that the major issue is the contradiction of mesmer mechanics. Even if clones aren't able to override phantasms, we still won't use our shatters as it would be a loss of dps. Some changes to the class design are necessary - every now and then we get some change (intoduction to chronophantasma for example), that supposed to aleviate those design flaws, but I don't think it's the right way to go, as such way doesn't deal with core mesmer issue.

@LSD.4673 said:Scepter 2 negates an attack, dumps conditions on your target, and deals a nice bit of damage. It also instantly gives you an illusion to shatter.How can you not love it?

It's nice in PvP (still kinda boring, but at least useful). However, due to its nature, it's pretty annoying skill to use in pve. Mobs attack at lower rate than players, making it harder to trigger the effect. Also, its clone overrides phantasms, which isn't desired in any group content (I think you can cancel it by jumping, but then you also cancel the damage, so what's the point anyway?)

Look, i'm not saying that scepter is bad in all game modes (also, I mentioned in my OP that i'm not talking about the numbers it dishes out). I know it's a nice hybrid weap for duelling because I use it in PvP.My concern is the way skills are made and their functionality in PvE. The visuals are unattractive, and scepter totally lacks AoE (i do not want this weap to become AoE king, I just think it should have just ONE AoE attack so you could deal with trash mobs easier).

As I said, I do not need more damage on scepter. I just want this weap to be more convenient to use and better animation-wise.

@Nomalu.7152 said:

@Bod.8261 said:

@Levetty.1279 said:

@Bod.8261 said:

@LSD.4673 said:Scepter 2 negates an attack, dumps conditions on your target, and deals a nice bit of damage. It also instantly gives you an illusion to shatter.How can you not love it?

I'll honest here: Such a drastic change (redesign of phantasm-skills or changes to the cap) is unrealistic at this point. Maybe a new Elite Spec can bring changes in this direction, but they didn't do it with Mirage, so they probably won't in the future.

Also keep in mind, that's just the way bosses are designed. You will never be using all your skills, either as they are movement abilties, give unnecessary boons, are AoEs or other's are more efficient.Just look at Condi Tempest - barely leaves fire attunement.

Shatter remains a niche in PvE, as a panic-distortion, as a poor breakbar-cc or as a mediocre AoE option.

So I'd just like to interject. You can ignore the clone portion of Scepter2 by jumping. However, the only clone generating ability that is required to maintain the non-Scepterauto treatment is the Sword3 because it would completely negate the skill (when at full illusions).

The thing is, no skill needs it, other than Axe2 and MT. The reason why Axe2 needs it is because it's the strong attack of the weapon. Being unable to use the strong attack because you have 3 Phantasms out is sloppy at best. Mirage Thrust prevents the use of dodging (even in many clone builds) because Sword clones aren't amazingly useful (bar IH interrupt fishing, but again, you have Sword3 to force out a clone). You could argue that GS2 could use it, but it's not wholly necessary.

More info

Scepter is ok and fun. Staff needs a buff: dmg is just way too low, both condi and power.

Idk, I always block attacks in group PvE. POF bounties are spamming hard hitting skills and aoe, soloing champ hero points and events, or mob swarms of 10 and above how can you not block or dodge etc? Scepter 2, sword 4, shield 4, and aegis well made me the only one standing a lot of the time while stubbornly staying in melee for maximum damage. In a coordinated team like for Raids where you are supporting one another, yes, you probably have defensive boons and you want to keep your phantasms up, but in open world sometimes you are probably better off not trying to hold onto phantasms for long and aoe shatters are more worthwhile. I honestly don't think phantasms are the only way to PvE, phantasm dps builds are sort of a former glory, Chrono definitely encourages shattering with the respawning features, unless highlevel raids and fractals with a dedicated team but even then, yes hold out those phantasms but Chrono of course isn't even the main dps role. The phantasm argument to me is still very niche. I do agree we need to revisit and figure out better balance of dps as a whole, for the whole class

I can't sleep so I came up with an idea for Scepter 2 lol. This change would apply ONLY for PvE as it would be too much for pvp:Block incoming attacks for 1 sec, tormenting foes whose attacks you block (1 stack, 4 secs). When the block ends, inflict torment on your target (same stacks and duration as its current trigger effect).This way you'd still have some defense with this skill, and you'd also be sure that you'll trigger the wanted effect.Thoughts?

(Oh and it could use some fancier animation then; I've always wanted it to make my character spin his scepter, creating a distorted shield, looking kinda like retaliation or aegis effect, but purplish, heh. One can dream.)

@Sifu.9745 said:Staff needs a buff: dmg is just way too low, both condi and power.

first of all, this^Anet lemme be a caster pls.

and secondly, my personal gripes for scepter are that the 1 animation is far too brutish, and the 3 animation looks bugged and that the auto casting, by default is too slow and it feels like the only reason it is slow is to pressure you into taking the trait to make it not feel awful to cast.

I will never like scepter. The most clunky weapon in mesmer's arsenal.

Really? Well, considering how finicky the abilities are (and how easy it is to cancel casts on them all), I can agree. But I also disagree because Staff has always had an identity crisis.

@Roda.7468 said:

@Sifu.9745 said:Staff needs a buff: dmg is just way too low, both condi and power.

Yep. If you want to use Scepter as a primary weapon, you have to take its trait, otherwise it's almost unbearable. Traits should improve certain features, not make them playable.As I said, whole aa animation is bad, but part 3 is just so ugly, especially on humans and norns. Scepter 3 shouldn't be a beam, it doesn't match this weap imo.And I do agree that staff needs to be looked at as well, especially its aa and Chaos Armor (skill #4).

@Exciton.8942 said:I will never like scepter. The most clunky weapon in mesmer's arsenal.

Ikr, that's why I tried to point out its flaws which make this weapon particularly awful to use.Every single weapon mesmer has is way more fun than scepter (even tho I don't like sword & gs, I still think they are more fun to use).

I really want mesmer's scepter to be entertaining. I love scepter as a weapon (I even motivated myself to craft Meteorlogicus and it's my only legendary weap), but it's just very unimpressive and clunky on this class. :anguished:

I've only really enjoyed scepter in one or two builds in the past.

Currently it's my least favourite weapon and I don't intend on ever (other than occasional novelty in open world pve) using it again now that we have staff and axe with their ambushes.

Scepter's auto is clunky and single target, the block is ridiculous being a single block and single target.

The only decent skill is confusing images, but it's not worth suffering to take it for.

I tested several sets and builds on the golems (long before POF/Mirage).

Sc/F has the fastest kill for trash mobs. Consistently faster than Sword and GS.

Staff has good sustain on boss mobs. Staff takes longer to set-up, but in a group should have no problem with sustain. The most group-friendly weapon for mesmer.

Shattering is your AOE. Scepter makes infinite clones, so you shouldn't be afraid to shatter nonstop.

I was Sc/F + Staff for a long time, and it was wonderful. Staff is one of the best survival weapon for any class. Got me out of any jam. Switched to Sw/F + Sc/P recently, but feel not as durable in POF. Makes me think about returning to scepter + staff.

@Shena Fu.5792 said:I tested several sets and builds on the golems (long before POF/Mirage).

Sc/F has the fastest kill for trash mobs. Consistently faster than Sword and GS.

Scepter is literally the worst weapon you can bring to deal with trash mobs. It provides no cleave nor any other AoE. Axe is superior to it when you are condi and sword when you are power. The only plus of scepter is that it is a ranged weapon.

Staff has good sustain on boss mobs. Staff takes longer to set-up, but in a group should have no problem with sustain. The most group-friendly weapon for mesmer.

Staff, due to its random nature and slow attacks, isn't reliable as a source of damage. If you are talking about its phantasm, I'm pretty sure there are better sustained dmg phantasms out there. I use staff in PvE too, but mostly for its defensive capabilities when I have to get out of some AoE or something.

Shattering is your AOE. Scepter makes infinite clones, so you shouldn't be afraid to shatter nonstop.

Shattering isn't scepter-exclusive. You can do it on any weapon set, and if you have problem with shatter fodder, you can always take DE.

I was Sc/F + Staff for a long time, and it was wonderful. Staff is one of the best survival weapon for any class. Got me out of any jam. Switched to Sw/F + Sc/P recently, but feel not as durable in POF. Makes me think about returning to scepter + staff.

I do agree that staff's survival is pretty good and valuable in PVP, and scepter is good duelling hybrid weapon in PVP. However, both of these weapons lack in PVE.

Even if scepter stays the way it is right now (I mean its abilities don't get some rework) in PVE, it should at least get better animations. Hell, it is probably one of the most boring weapons in gw2 right now.

Look at mirage's axe (or even any other mesmer's weapon) or weaver's weapon skills and tell me that mesmer's scepter is visually pleasing.

Somehow I survive much better with scepter/sword in WvW. I play both dire condi and assassin/zerk mesmers with scepter/sword. I often don't use the second weapon set. I would say this: if you have no skill to gank thief with gs, power scepter/sword is best weapon set. Just remember "blind on shatter" trait which is very good.