So sick of being a free bag of loot

Arenet play ur game! Balance the professions around all the modes you offer, that’s the responsibility you took on creating different modes. Necro in all specs is either a free bag of loot or aoe spam bot due to lack of mobility and any decent defensive capabilities compared to other classes, play it for an appreciatable amount of time and it will become aperant quick

Thanks

im speaking of pvp,wvw etc. Pve its decent cuz well your fighting npc’s lol

They nerfed Reapers again on dec 11th btw. Even less survivability and less LF gain. What a joke.

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:im speaking of pvp,wvw etc. Pve its decent cuz well your fighting npc’s lol

true but even in PvE you are trying to join with other player which result in this

Haha I know! They literally made their weakness worse and made the strengths worse as well, good job balance team! Not that anyone’s surprised. Atleast they made a few good changes on a few classes but over all disappointing. I understand most dev’s don’t play their games and can’t blame them considering but should have a group of vets that are knowledgeable about all modes making the calls.would have to be better than this and hey create more jobs, win win

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:im speaking of pvp,wvw etc. Pve its decent cuz well your fighting npc’s lol

I know :( I meant just solo pve story or farming the maps lol I don’t try and join groups for serious content cuz arenet doesn’t want necro to have much to provide to a team in its massive MULTIPLAYER online game haha

It’s a good thing for the balance team that the higher ups in the game are obviously so laid back on customer satisfaction and results cuz reading forums etc over last few yrs I think things would be vastly different

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:im speaking of pvp,wvw etc. Pve its decent cuz well your fighting npc’s lol

in GW2 their are 3 type of professionsgod tier profession (Mesmer)top tier professions (rest profession)and a joke professions (necromancer and to some level elementalist)

They do play and balance their game.

.........The problem is they are casual devs, dueling with mystic builds and clicking with mouse. On that level necro is pretty strong and thematic.

I agree 100% but they have to understand a large portion of their playbase want to use their favourite class in other modes other than story mode and messing around the maps, which I agree necro is very strong at. They created pvp modes and should have especially at their level the ability to balance the class to either have defensive capabilities that counter its lack of mobility compared to other classes and or give it more mobility. Necro and thief should be the two classes that got blocks and invulnerability skills vs other classes lol. I get that the wanted necro to be slow and hard hitting monster like the classics but it has to be actually hard hitting in relation to other more mobile classes or it’s just slow. Plus doesn’t work being slow in today’s version of the game. The only reason the classic monster troupe even worked was cuz they had supernatural mobility even tho they moved slow,no one out ran Jason haha yet they left that out of the equation and necros just slow like a walking dead zombie, not so scary lol

I only brought up thief cuz it also suffers bad balance,it’s the squishiest clas with moderate damage and other than Mobility has bad defensive capabilities in relation to most specs these days, I ignore deadeye exist lol

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Arenet play ur game! Balance the professions around all the modes you offer, that’s the responsibility you took on creating different modes. Necro in all specs is either a free bag of loot or aoe spam bot due to lack of mobility and any decent defensive capabilities compared to other classes, play it for an appreciatable amount of time and it will become aperant quick

Thanks

I'm guessing your WvW gripe refers to solo roaming, as Scourge and to some extent Reaper does rather well in large/small scale roaming with the right composition as we would have other classes to babysit us and do not require much mobility.

However, if you're talking about self sustainability and not having to rely on external parties, then yes, we've always had sub-par mobility/sustainability which becomes worse with increasing number of foes.That said, I've recently seen core necros (power/condi/hybrid) making a comeback on the WvW small scale roaming scene which you might want to consider giving a go.

One of my favorite youtuber Gholesrolk has a new video in fact which you might want to reference.He does solo/small scale roaming on a hybrid core necro mostly and his builds are always so unique I love them.Watch his sustain in the video. Incredible!

I've tried core condi necro mostly myself and have beaten many of the current mentioned 'top tier' classes/builds like the boons/damage soulbeasts, deadeyes, power/condi mirages, holosmiths, heralds etc. in open field and my general feeling is that there are seldom 'very bad matchups' where you'll feel like you don't stand a chance on a core necro.Reason being we are not that easily kited and bursted down from range by Soulbeasts/Deadeyes on our core Death Shroud compared to a Scourge/Reaper as the Death Shroud is tankier and offers more counter range pressure.

I’ll give it a try, thanks for the suggestion and taking the time to post it

The problem is that lf is affected by

1) surroundings and

2) static 10sec cooldown.

The resource everyclass has is automaticically generated with time or is bound by time in some way but that is the only restriction.Eg: thief ini, warriors adrenaline, revs thingy(dont play rev), holos heat mechanic.

All of them are gated behind self resource management but on contrast we have necro that has lf gains affected by surroundings making it hard to balance. So to balance it we have a 10sec icd on shroud exit basically which kiills the class in some scenarios and makes it very predictable.

Possible solution: Rework whole class from ground up so that lf is not affected by surroundings and balance lf gain skills to give necro tools to manage lf like other classes and remove shroud cooldown.

Flavour to class can be added in other ways also. There is no need to tunnel vision necro in ONLY-TEAM FIGHTER or FODDER role because its not fun.

You know why there is necro mains meme in the community? Its because this class is inherently dysfunctional and puts players at disadvantage from the beginning. The devs try to compensate that with damage but the weaknesses of this class are so glaring that it cant be fixed with small balance patches. players of this class are not happy playing thus class since the beginning.

There is no way to fix necromancer other than complete rework but Anet has shown they are not keen on complete necromancer rework as just love their little shroud mechanic and immobile mage high hp(lul) fantasy too much. But the reality is that:1) being high hp does not matter in this game period.

2) being immobile is 80% less sustain than any class no matter how much hp you have.

3) no utility on weapons, long cast times and high cooldowns makes necro free loot bag. More so in wvw.

4) nothing is more predictable than necro, if a necro has low hp, you can be sure that he will die if you attack him. If he is in shroud, you know you have to cc and wait for shroud exit. On shroud exit you know necro wont be having any shroud things available for 10secs so its free dps time.Fighting a necro is like doing tutorials for pvp with every indicator on what to do.

5)Having only damage on weapons and no mobility/boons/block/target break is not unique. Its discriminatory.

6) Necro has nothing other than boon corrupt which are not very useful under most of the cases. The effect multiplies on stacking and creates cancer meta for wvw which whole wvw community is not happy about.

Btw have you guys ever hit anyone with warhorn daze? I never seem to hit anyone.

I already thought that something was wrong with me, because after the patch I began to die very often and very quickly (in the WvW).I changed the runes, builds ... to no avail.But it turns out to be a common problem.On the one hand, this is good news for me - it means nothing happened to my skill, on the other - bad ... because the question arises how to enjoy this gameplay for my favorite class. And when it will be fixed.

@XECOR.2814 said:Btw have you guys ever hit anyone with warhorn daze? I never seem to hit anyone.

Hmm ... well, several times he helped me run away from someone)) Not so far away, really ...)

Thats the role of the necro in pvp right now. They are very strong but very fragile. Dont like it? play something else in that mode.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I agree 100% but they have to understand a large portion of their playbase want to use their favourite class in other modes other than story mode and messing around the maps, which I agree necro is very strong at. They created pvp modes and should have especially at their level the ability to balance the class to either have defensive capabilities that counter its lack of mobility compared to other classes and or give it more mobility. Necro and thief should be the two classes that got blocks and invulnerability skills vs other classes lol. I get that the wanted necro to be slow and hard hitting monster like the classics but it has to be actually hard hitting in relation to other more mobile classes or it’s just slow. Plus doesn’t work being slow in today’s version of the game. The only reason the classic monster troupe even worked was cuz they had supernatural mobility even tho they moved slow,no one out ran Jason haha yet they left that out of the equation and necros just slow like a walking dead zombie, not so scary lol

Ummmm Necromancer can do very well in PvP and WvW.

@XECOR.2814 said:Possible solution: Rework whole class from ground up so that lf is not affected by surroundings and balance lf gain skills to give necro tools to manage lf like other classes and remove shroud cooldown.

Sadly that is not possible. There actually are people who like Necromancer as is and it would be a bad business move on ANets part to redo a profession a portion of their players already like, more so when you consider that a complete rework doesn't mean that it would actually be better.

There is no way to fix necromancer other than complete rework but Anet has shown they are not keen on complete necromancer rework as just love their little shroud mechanic and immobile mage high hp(lul) fantasy too much. But the reality is that:

This isn't really about them loving Shroud. If that were the case we wouldn't have seen Scourge. Simple truth is that they can't rework the profession due to the fact that they'll anger their customers. Sure they have angry customers now, but they also have happy ones. A rework runs a high risk of making everyone angry. High risk, low reward.

4) nothing is more predictable than necro, if a necro has low hp, you can be sure that he will die if you attack him. If he is in shroud, you know you have to cc and wait for shroud exit. On shroud exit you know necro wont be having any shroud things available for 10secs so its free dps time.Fighting a necro is like doing tutorials for pvp with every indicator on what to do.

Holosmiths are equally predictable, more so in most cases.

Btw have you guys ever hit anyone with warhorn daze? I never seem to hit anyone.

Yes, though I haven't used warhorn in a long time. That's mostly due to the build I current run focusing more on chill effects and focus is a better weapon for that.

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:im speaking of pvp,wvw etc. Pve its decent cuz well your fighting npc’s lol

2 of the parties in that lfg also doing t4s/recs and both have a necro in. :thinking:

I'm sorry if you been the victim of class discrimination but it seems a bit over exaggerated. Aside from before HoT, I've never had someone tell me I couldn't join a party because I was a necro.

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Arenet play ur game! Balance the professions around all the modes you offer, that’s the responsibility you took on creating different modes. Necro in all specs is either a free bag of loot or aoe spam bot due to lack of mobility and any decent defensive capabilities compared to other classes, play it for an appreciatable amount of time and it will become aperant quick

Thanks

This is a great example of how PVP meta evolves that great players are always ahead of what's trendy. Necro has the tools that are needed to be successful in any game mode if people let go of their ideas of what the 'best' build is. Being good at PVP/WvW isn't just about being good tactically ... the strategic guys that can see how the meta is evolving got the strategy part nailed down too.

Honestly, I've had great luck solo roaming with core necro since 2012..and it's currently in a better state than it's been in many time periods in the games history. There are several ways you can be successful but it highly depends on your play style. A lot of people like the sustain specs but I can't stand them. I've always had the best luck pushing necro's damage as high as possible. There are very few fights you can't win in a roaming situation, dueling is a bit different given the inability to utilize several of the necro's abilities to their fullest. (Hiding a flesh wurm somewhere, cliff jukes etc.). Overall though I don't really feel anything counters me, mirages would be the worst matchup but not something that I feel useless against. Pre patch I strictly ran zerker/eagle and it definitely still works well post patch, but I'm currently trying out grieving with the reworked fear traits which is entertaining to say the least. If your curious to see roaming with glass only specs I occasionally upload videos. You won't ever see anything on that channel that has a defensive armor attribute, zerker/grieving or similar. The most defensive I've run is speed runes for group play.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7TaUKejfa2tNncl6rZztyg

you know what would be funny, a teef or mes elite that could pretend to be other classes (changes the profession icon at top of screen). obv they would pick necro since ppl would think they a free loot bag when roaming lol.

If only necro could do that, then people would see mirage and think oh lets not bother fighting him/her because he/she will just teleport and be more of a bother to kill, or you could pretend to be lets say a revenant so when a ranger who uses soulbeast shows up, they will be forced to think they are fighting someone who can counter them and decide to get off a point.

I liked the video above seems like a great player, unfortunately most matches don’t go like that and even he states necro poor state and is proud that he’s as effective as he is, and he definitely should be. As good as some people CAN be with core necro it doesn’t take away from the fact that necro and its specs are severely lacking in mobility and effective defensive when compared to every other class and has just OK damage to go along with the package, only reason to take any necro spec into any pvp mode is for a harder challenge or because u like the theme enough to be either a aoe spam bot or a free bag lol

It should not be that way.