Full counter has been nerfed by -83% damage total. That is over kill.

• Full Counter: The damage applied by this skill in competitive modes has been reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE. Its daze duration in competitive game modes has been increased to 1.5 seconds.

This is very cryptic and confusing. What do you mean by "it has been reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE."I think they are saying they reduce FC to -66.66% because (25/75 - 1)*100% = -66.66%In previous patches, they were clear how much damage was nerfed, but this patch they are very cryptic and confusing. They are not being transparent! I wonder why.

• October 17 (Reduce damage by 12.5% in PvP and WvW only.)
• November 7 (Increased recharge from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW only.) This is equivalent to a -33% damage reduction (8/12 -1)*100% = -33%
• March 27 (Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.)
• December 11 (reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE.)(-66.66% damage nerf)

If we do the math to find the TOTAL damage lost since FC was launched we get:[(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)(1 - 0.66) - 1] 100% = - 83%

That means FC has been Nerf by -83% since launch!

EDIT 1:Curiosity note: Do you know by how much damage they will have to buff FC to bring it back to its original version?By 497% YES THAT IS CORRECT!Percentages are not something to be mess with! That is why when you lose money in the stock market, it is very difficult to earn back what you lost.How did I calculate 497% here is the equation:let X be the percent damage increase to bring FC back to normal, then:[(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)(1 - 0.66)(1 + X) - 1] 100% =0%

Solving for X gives 4.97 which is 497%

Heck, to buff FC back to a half the value of PvE, they will have to buff FC by 199% damage.What they did to warrior is stupid and careless.At this point I am guessing the people in charge of balancing skills are unpaid interns.

EDIT 2:Guys, some of you are so confused about the 2:3 ratio of Full Counter and how this ratio is a -33.33% damage nerf.I will explain how the 2:3 ratio translates to a -33.33% damage nerf.In PvE the cooldown of FC is 8 sec.In PvP and WvW the cooldown of FC is 12 sec.Thus the ratio is 8/12 = 2/3 (or in more eloquent notation 2:3)This means that using 2 Full Counters in PvE is the equivalent of using 3 Full Counter in WvW or PvP.

As you can see time is irrelevant in the 2:3 ratio.Using 2 FC in PvE is equivalent to 3 FC in WvW or PvP.Now, suppose that the damage of FC in PvE, WvW and PvP is X.Using the 2:3 ratio, we can calculate the damage ratio as 2X/3X = 2/3This means that the damage ratio is also in the form 2:3Therefore, by increasing FC from 8 sec to 12 sec, Anet has nerfed FC damage by (2/3 - 1) * 100 = -33.33%

it means that it was 75% in pvp and now its 25%,pve is 100%easier whoud be to say,we made you pvp spec warriors,sadly it was good,so we nerfed it by 50% have fun.

@daw.4923 said:it means that it was 75% in pvp and now its 25%,pve is 100%easier whoud be to say,we made you pvp spec warriors,sadly it was good,so we nerfed it by 50% have fun.

At first i thought that they were nerfing by 50%, but their wording is very confusing. In mathematics losing 20% and then losing 50% is not the same as 20% + 50%.It is illegal to add percentages like that.

However, if they are saying that now FC is 25% of the original FC then that is a nerf of -75%.If we take in consideration the cooldown increase from 8 sec to 12 sec then that is a nerf of -33.33% on damage.

So if I have understood correctly their wording, then FC TOTAL nerf in damage is about:[(1 - 0.75)(1 - 0.33) - 1] 100% = -83%

Thus, like I had calculated in the beginning, FC has been nerfed by -83%That is BAD.

Just so you know, this December patch FC was nerfed by -66.66% not -50%.Perhaps that is why they are not telling us how much damage was nerfed on this patch because they dont want you to know the huge nerf on FC.

So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

yes, with the nerf to wod, It looks like new elites are on the way.buy or die

@Rysdude.3824 said:So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

nooo,you have 2 daggers,with amazing utility,2 random utility like agro on 35 sec cd and ability to DEstealth invis ppl! both skills are on other classes with 1/4 cd without taking any utility slot,but ...... ye.

that means get the 75% of FC damage in PvE and subtract 50% of FC damage in PvE. so the scaling of damage is based upon PvE damage. so the damage of FC is @ constant and settled at that. 25% PvE damage should be the base.

check the history of FC if it was split game mode wise [PvE ~ PvP/WvW]. then go from there to get the numbers.

A.NET just wants you to effin go to PvE and do damage. and that damage is the baseline and you can even hit the hardest PvE mob. and if you go PvP/WvW and if you notice mega-inconsistency, like if you hit the hardest PvE mob at 1k damage and you hit a sh1t player at 200 damage, most probably that your enemy in PvP/WvW is using some sh1t software or there is some sh1t layer in your effin game client. either of those.

meaning sh1tters in the internet, sh1tters in the outernet.

lel.

@zionophir.6845 said:that means get the 75% of FC damage in PvE and subtract 50% of FC damage in PvE.I know that not everyone has the gift of math and I am not judging, so for clarification going from 75% to 25% is not 75% - 25% = 50%Let X be the PvE damage, then 75% of PvE is:

• (X)(0.75)And 25% of PvE is:
• (X)(0.25)

Therefore, the damage lost going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is:

• [(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] 100%
• = -66.66%

So, going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is not 50%, it is 66.66%

check the history of FC if it was split game mode wise [PvE ~ PvP/WvW]. then go from there to get the numbers.

mmmm did you read my previous posts? I posted them with exact nerf damageThe calculated TOTAL damage nerfed FC since launch is -83%

[(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)(1 - 0.66) - 1] 100% = - 83%

• October 17 (Reduce damage by 12.5% in PvP and WvW only.)
• November 7 (Increased recharge from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW only.) This is equivalent to a 33% damage reduction (8/12 -1)*100% = 33%
• March 27 (Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.)
• December 11 (reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE.) (-66.66% damage nerf)

And just to add as a curiosity note: Do you know by how much damage they will have to buff FC to bring it back to its original version?By 497% YES THAT IS CORRECT!Percentages are not something to be mess with! That is why when you lose money in the stock market, it is very difficult to earn back what you lost.How did I calculate 497% here is the equation:let X be the percent damage increase to bring FC back to normal, then:[(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)(1 - 0.66)(1 + X) - 1] 100% =0%

Solving for X gives 4.97 which is 497%

I'll put this in terms others will understand easier. I put the same build/same gear on in both WvW and PvE and looked at my FC damage in each mode.PvE:Damage: 1,136CD: 8sec

WvWDamage: 268CD: 12sec

Now in a perfect wold I'd be able to use them on CD which I can't really do in either mode because someone needs to attack or I need to be in an AoE however for comparison's sake I'm just going to assume perfect world and that I can use it off CD (WvW I'm much more likely not to be able to use when on CD, so the numbers actually are much lower, unless you're fighting an idiot that's just face rolling skills and not dancing around you). I can get 3 FC's off in PvE in the time that I can get 2 off in WvW.

(1,136)3=3,408(268)2=568568/3,408=0.166667

So in reality we're doing about 16.6% of the damage in WvW that we can in PvE. And to be honest most people in small groups in competitive modes stop attacking when I use FC so it doesn't even really seem to proc.

Edited because silly forum format.

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:I'll put this in terms others will understand easier. I put the same build/same gear on in both WvW and PvE and looked at my FC damage in each mode.PvE:Damage: 1,136CD: 8sec

WvWDamage: 268CD: 12sec

Now in a perfect wold I'd be able to use them on CD which I can't really do in either mode because someone needs to attack or I need to be in an AoE however for comparison's sake I'm just going to assume perfect world and that I can use it off CD (WvW I'm much more likely not to be able to use when on CD, so the numbers actually are much lower, unless you're fighting an idiot that's just face rolling skills and not dancing around you). I can get 3 FC's off in PvE in the time that I can get 2 off in WvW.

(1,136)3=3,408(268)2=568568/3,408=0.166667

yeah thanks for that example, now lets calculate the percent damage lost using his real life example:

[(568/3408) - 1] * 100% = -83%

So there you have it folks, FC has been nerfed by -83%.And like I said, to bring back FC to its original damage value, Anet will have to buff FC to 497% damage!And to buff FC back to a half the value of PvE, they will have to buff FC by 199% damage.

If you think about it, they overnerfed power berserker too. Is it trend in balance team, to nerf warrior elite specs suddenly and hardly?At this point, why not just make FC a skill that triggers on button press intead of being hit by something? With current damage, it surely would be UltRa vErY oP.And in PvE, it would remove randomness and frustration from mobs suddenly retargeting, not attacking or interrupting their animations to not trigger FC.

at this current state of FC it could be put on AUTOCAST.

I agree on on 83% , but you named it wrong , it is Little Daze, not Full Counter.

@steki.1478 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@"Hitman.5829" said:

• Full Counter: The damage applied by this skill in competitive modes has been reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE. Its daze duration in competitive game modes has been increased to 1.5 seconds.

This is very cryptic and confusing. What do you mean by "it has been reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE."I think they are saying they reduce FC to -66.66% because (25/75 - 1)*100% = -66.66%In previous patches, they were clear how much damage was nerfed, but this patch they are very cryptic and confusing. They are not being transparent! I wonder why.

• October 17 (Reduce damage by 12.5% in PvP and WvW only.)
• November 7 (Increased recharge from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW only.) This is equivalent to a 33% damage reduction (8/12 -1)*100% = 33%
• March 27 (Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.)
• December 11 (reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE.)

If we do the math to find the TOTAL damage lost since FC was launched we get:[(1 - 0.125)

(1 - 0.33)

(1 - 0.14)

(1 - 0.66) - 1]

100% = - 83%

That means FC has been Nerf by -83% since launch!

EDIT:

Curiosity note:

Do you know by how much damage they will have to buff FC to bring it back to its original version?By 497% YES THAT IS CORRECT!Percentages are not something to be mess with! That is why when you lose money in the stock market, it is very difficult to earn back what you lost.How did I calculate 497% here is the equation:let X be the percent damage increase to bring FC back to normal, then:[(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)

(1 - 0.66)(1 + X) - 1]

100% =0%

Solving for X gives 4.97 which is 497%

Heck, to buff FC back to a

half the value of PvE, they will have to buff FC by 199% damage.

What they did to warrior is stupid and careless.At this point I am guessing the people in charge of balancing skills are unpaid interns.

@"kiranslee.4829" said:I agree on on 83% , but you named it wrong , it is Little Daze, not Full Counter.

You spelled "Soft breeze" wrong, i give you that, its a stinking breeze, hence why the 1,5s daze. Or maybe its a stunningly beautiful flowery smell.I know that i swapped back to core some patches ago and definately do NOT regret it in the slightest. Looking at red hairs pve/wvw dmg comparison makes me wanna cry/laugh, i cant decide.Calling it full counter is just a bad joke.

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"kiranslee.4829" said:I agree on on 83% , but you named it wrong , it is Little Daze, not Full Counter.

It's a warm summer breeze that smells like lilacs. I've also switched back to core warrior cause this nerf was ridiculous.

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"kiranslee.4829" said:I agree on on 83% , but you named it wrong , it is Little Daze, not Full Counter.

The best part is that i have seen ppl in the pvp forum complain about gs3 and bullscharge doing around 6k dmg.... Soon all our skills will hit for 1k max and we wont be able to kill anything but white ambient creatures like rabbits.

I mean which hard hitting skills do we rly have left at this point?Gs3, eviscerate (with the biggest tell ever), maybe bullscharge, even tho i wouldnt even call it a big hit with todays standarts. Hundred blades isnt even rly worth using on downs with the amounts of ppl i have seen rezzing through it while i hammered away at them in full zerker gear. Rush? That most of the time wont even connect without the enemy doing anything kek. Axe throw at enemies under 25% hp? Nvm those often just vanish leaving the magic word "obstructed" on a flat surface, not to mention that we wont be able to get them under 25%

The biggest hit is probably killshot from rifle? Which is a weapon that feels whacky at best. And not viable in most gamemodes.

I dont even know why i still bother to dodge fullcounter atm, its just a leftover reflex from times where it actually hurt to get hit by it instead of being tickled

I'm in a game of thrones state of mind and looks like ANET gave Spellbreakers the LittleFinger

@Regh.8649 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:Your math is bad and you should feel bad...the 25 PVE and 75 PVP means that. The damage was reduced 75% for PVP but only 25% for PVE. The skill effects were split between game modes.And even then, what's with the 27/75 - 1... That's not how you make an average if that was your intention, and anything else is just incredibly misguided... They didn't say 25 out of 75 (that would make your calculations somewhat correct), they said 25% PVE to 75% PVP. With 25 to 75 the best you could do would be an average (which would be around 50).

Your reading comprehension is obviously not great, so i'd suggest asking for some books for christmas...

(X)(0.75)And 25% of PvE is:(X)(0.25)

[(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%= -66.66%

@steki.1478 said:He includes cooldown nerf as well., which doesnt mean the skill does less damage, it just does less dps. Those are two very different terms.

For Iron Legion!Charr warriors master race!

@Hitman.5829 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:Your math is bad and you should feel bad...the 25 PVE and 75 PVP means that. The damage was reduced 75% for PVP but only 25% for PVE. The skill effects were split between game modes.And even then, what's with the 27/75 - 1... That's not how you make an average if that was your intention, and anything else is just incredibly misguided... They didn't say 25 out of 75 (that would make your calculations somewhat correct), they said 25% PVE to 75% PVP. With 25 to 75 the best you could do would be an average (which would be around 50).

Your reading comprehension is obviously not great, so i'd suggest asking for some books for christmas...

(X)(0.75)And 25% of PvE is:(X)(0.25)

[(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%= -66.66%

@steki.1478 said:He includes cooldown nerf as well., which doesnt mean the skill does less damage, it just does less dps. Those are two very different terms.

You don't work for your skill cooldown, you wait for it. Waiting isnt damage nerf. Waiting isnt effort. Waiting is dps loss. Your analogy is a bit off.

@steki.1478 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:Your math is bad and you should feel bad...the 25 PVE and 75 PVP means that. The damage was reduced 75% for PVP but only 25% for PVE. The skill effects were split between game modes.And even then, what's with the 27/75 - 1... That's not how you make an average if that was your intention, and anything else is just incredibly misguided... They didn't say 25 out of 75 (that would make your calculations somewhat correct), they said 25% PVE to 75% PVP. With 25 to 75 the best you could do would be an average (which would be around 50).

Your reading comprehension is obviously not great, so i'd suggest asking for some books for christmas...

(X)(0.75)And 25% of PvE is:(X)(0.25)

[(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%= -66.66%

@steki.1478 said:He includes cooldown nerf as well., which doesnt mean the skill does less damage, it just does less dps. Those are two very different terms.

Wouldn't a dps loss be a damage nerf?

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:Your math is bad and you should feel bad...the 25 PVE and 75 PVP means that. The damage was reduced 75% for PVP but only 25% for PVE. The skill effects were split between game modes.And even then, what's with the 27/75 - 1... That's not how you make an average if that was your intention, and anything else is just incredibly misguided... They didn't say 25 out of 75 (that would make your calculations somewhat correct), they said 25% PVE to 75% PVP. With 25 to 75 the best you could do would be an average (which would be around 50).

Your reading comprehension is obviously not great, so i'd suggest asking for some books for christmas...

(X)(0.75)And 25% of PvE is:(X)(0.25)

[(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%= -66.66%

@steki.1478 said:He includes cooldown nerf as well., which doesnt mean the skill does less damage, it just does less dps. Those are two very different terms.

yes, dps is just a measure of damage.

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:Your math is bad and you should feel bad...the 25 PVE and 75 PVP means that. The damage was reduced 75% for PVP but only 25% for PVE. The skill effects were split between game modes.And even then, what's with the 27/75 - 1... That's not how you make an average if that was your intention, and anything else is just incredibly misguided... They didn't say 25 out of 75 (that would make your calculations somewhat correct), they said 25% PVE to 75% PVP. With 25 to 75 the best you could do would be an average (which would be around 50).

Your reading comprehension is obviously not great, so i'd suggest asking for some books for christmas...

(X)(0.75)And 25% of PvE is:(X)(0.25)

[(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%= -66.66%

@steki.1478 said:He includes cooldown nerf as well., which doesnt mean the skill does less damage, it just does less dps. Those are two very different terms.

Not necessarily. If you can kill someone in 5 seconds, it doesnt mean that you're doing less damage than before cooldown* nerf. Your FC would still do same damage per cast, you just cant cast it as often as before (different dps, but same damage per cast). Burst in pvp is much more important than constant dps because players dont have high health pools like pve bosses. Pvp players also dont spam dps skills on cooldown, they use them situationally, to set up a burst or use defensive ones to defend against one.

(Non related to FC nerf) There's no point of hitting a skill for 5k on a 10k HP enemy when everything else is on cooldown when you can wait extra 2 seconds and stun+hit them for 15k and down them. Dps doesnt matter there because your target is downed, but the damage output does. Not the damage you do over 30 seconds of enemy healing over and over again, but the damage you do in short amount of time resulting enemy dying.

While cooldown nerfs do reduce your ability to down/kill enemies more often, they are not damage nerfs because you can still do the same burst combos every time your skills are ready and pvp is not a 100% dps uptime battle like pve.

DPS = damage / second.

Damage nerf = dps nerf. Cooldown nerf = dps nerf.

DPS nerf isnt a cause, it's a consequence.

Damage has nothing to do with cooldowns, it's 2 completely different terms.

@steki.1478 said:DPS = damage / second.

Damage nerf = dps nerf. Cooldown nerf = dps nerf.

DPS nerf isnt a cause, it's a consequence.

Damage has nothing to do with cooldowns, it's 2 completely different terms.

Damage per second is damage..... its literally what damage per second means.its the damage that can be done in a second, therefore it is damage, as damage is a measure of damage while dps is a measure of damage.