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So, are we ready...


Dadnir.5038

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... To be this profession that give protection?

With this will that ANet seem to have to specialize profession's shared boon and the "exceptionnal" ability of the necromancer to grant might, regen and protection, the necromancer's direction seem to be clear. Even if I might be wrong, making spectral ring larger can probably support this idea and there is few core change to do to make necromancers the "best protection provider".

So... Will the next patch tell us: The necromancer is adept debuffing and at protecting the live of it's allies, in this update we've focused our sight on Death magic and the boon that the necromancer is the best at providing to it's allies:

  • Beyond the veil, this trait now grant protection to up to 10 allies around the necromancer. (It will prioritize allies over minions)
  • Putrid defense, this trait now make protection applied by the necromancer reduce incoming condition duration.
  • Soul comprehension has been renamed into order of undeath and now increase the duration of protection applied by the necromancer by 20%.

A new stat set have been introduced to support these changes: Major power/toughness, minor protection duration/expertise.

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@Axl.8924 said:Wait a min, so necromancers are going to be buffers in resistance and protection? isn't resistance a revenant thing?

Personnally I only said protection.

@phs.6089 said:I'm ready to anything , so ready for a tanking necro.

Your stats already exist in game imo it's Vigilant

Vigilant increase specifically prot duration? It wouldn't be fun if there wasn't a hidden nerf don't you think?

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@Axl.8924 said:Wait a min, so necromancers are going to be buffers in resistance and protection? isn't resistance a revenant thing?

I have no doubt that in the next few patches, everything is in the air for who's doing what. Seems that if Anet's new approach is to spread the boons around and it's theme based, it wouldn't be unreasonable for some boons to get more widely distributed.

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@"Obtena.7952" said:I have no doubt that in the next few patches, everything is in the air for who's doing what. Seems that if Anet's new approach is to spread the boons around and it's theme based, it wouldn't be unreasonable for some boons to get more widely distributed.

From my point of view, due to how necromancer's defense work, resistance may not be an appropriate boon to introduce in his set. Thematically it totally fit the necromancer but the profession in it's design is supposed to take damage with health point, it's not supposed to "avoid" them like resistance do for condition damages.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I have no doubt that in the next few patches, everything is in the air for who's doing what. Seems that if Anet's new approach is to spread the boons around and it's theme based, it wouldn't be unreasonable for some boons to get more widely distributed.

From my point of view, due to how necromancer's defense work, resistance may not be an appropriate boon to introduce in his set. Thematically it totally fit the necromancer but the profession in it's design is supposed to take damage with health point, it's not supposed to "avoid" them like resistance do for condition damages.

I dunno it could be good for the necromancer.Imagine if they could give t hat in fractals, I wouldn't turn it down, would you?

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@Axl.8924 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I have no doubt that in the next few patches, everything is in the air for who's doing what. Seems that if Anet's new approach is to spread the boons around and it's theme based, it wouldn't be unreasonable for some boons to get more widely distributed.

From my point of view, due to how necromancer's defense work, resistance may not be an appropriate boon to introduce in his set. Thematically it totally fit the necromancer but the profession in it's design is supposed to take damage with health point, it's not supposed to "avoid" them like resistance do for condition damages.

I dunno it could be good for the necromancer.Imagine if they could give t hat in fractals, I wouldn't turn it down, would you?

My argument is not that it wouldn't be good, but that it doesn't fit with the idea of mitigating damage with health points. That said, the "PvE meta" which will appear when professions will have their dedicated boon to share will most likely favor professions that give offensive boons because it's always like that. You probably wouldn't turn it down but granted that you'll be a support specialized damage mitigation your teammates will most likely wonder if it's worth the trade. Anyway, it's how GW2 PvE work since core game so...

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I have no doubt that in the next few patches, everything is in the air for who's doing what. Seems that if Anet's new approach is to spread the boons around and it's theme based, it wouldn't be unreasonable for some boons to get more widely distributed.

From my point of view, due to how necromancer's defense work, resistance may not be an appropriate boon to introduce in his set. Thematically it totally fit the necromancer but the profession in it's design is supposed to take damage with health point, it's not supposed to "avoid" them like resistance do for condition damages.

Yeah I was thinking it's a bit of a toss up as well. Also, from a practical view, resistance is just stacking already strong condition control skills necro has that benefit the team. It's probably too much of a good thing.

Basically, I can see necro getting it from a thematic view, I'm hoping they don't get it from a practical one. Protection is a likely choice; it's sort of already hanging there. If Anet sees fit, there are definitely options for Necro to share life steal skills (more than we do now) or condition-oriented buffs (I'm thinking duration increases as the most obvious), but those aren't boons. Not likely to be in the scope of the exercise they are doing.

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I can see resistance as a thematic boon to have for necromancer.

Basically, a Necro would have resistance in order to pile on conditions onto themself, and then using plague sendings to send it to others...being a literal aids bag would make sense for a necromancer.

As for boons that it can share to others? I’m not so sure about. A reaper should be able to share boons in the form of shouts, or Wells. It seems protection and might are its primary boons as of right now, which may change. The way I see it:

Thief: Quickness and swiftnessGuardian : Aegis and stabilityWarrior : retaliation and mightNecromancer : Protection and resistanceRanger : Vigor and regerationMesmer : Alacrity and vigorEngineer : Stability and swiftnessReverent : Fury and quicknessElementalist : Regernation and Aegis

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@"Anchoku.8142" said:From the patch notes, "... we are opening up select skills for different professions... " does not mean all professions.Necro has Blood is Power, protection from Vampiric Rituals, and barrier. I think that will be all it gets.

Which will leave it out of meta yet again.It's either

  • rework necro
  • make his boonduration much betterOr
  • leave it as it is

Option 1+2 could make necro meta, option 3 will leave it in that very particular cheesy niche spot where it stands right now.

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:I can see resistance as a thematic boon to have for necromancer.

Basically, a Necro would have resistance in order to pile on conditions onto themself, and then using plague sendings to send it to others...being a literal aids bag would make sense for a necromancer.

As for boons that it can share to others? I’m not so sure about. A reaper should be able to share boons in the form of shouts, or Wells. It seems protection and might are its primary boons as of right now, which may change. The way I see it:

Thief: Quickness and swiftnessGuardian : Aegis and stabilityWarrior : retaliation and mightNecromancer : Protection and resistanceRanger : Vigor and regerationMesmer : Alacrity and vigorEngineer : Stability and swiftnessReverent : Fury and quicknessElementalist : Regernation and Aegis

Honnestly, what you propose is way to different than the current boons these professions can grant to allies. There is no way ANet's gonna change professions that much. ATM:

  • Thief can perma: vigor, swiftness, might and fury (no quickness)
  • Guardian have an easy way sharing: protection, regen, retaliation, might, aegis, quickness and stability
  • Warrior excel at might, share easily fury and regen while also having some way to grant vigor (no retaliation)
  • Necromancer share protection, might and regen (no resistance)
  • Ranger share protection, might, swiftness, fury, regen and vigor
  • Mesmer share boons chaotically but excel at quickness and alacrity while it also grant reliably some swiftness and aegis. (no vigor)
  • Engineer share protection, might, swiftness, regen, fury, retaliation, stability, quickness and vigor
  • Revenant share resistance, alacrity, might, fury, swiftness, protection, regen, stability and retaliation (revenants don't share quickness)
  • Elementalists share protection, swiftness, might, fury, regen and stability (no aegis)

It's unlikely that ANet will add new sharable boons to the kit of the professions when they can already make use of the existing stuff. If they are going to specialize each profession into sharing a single boon (and maybe make use of the e-spec to add a thematic extra boon each time) it would be more:

Universal; might

  • Thief: swiftness, (daredevil: vigor, deadeye: fury)
  • Guardian: retaliation, (DH: aegis, firebrand: quickness)
  • Warrior: vigor, (berserker: fury, SB: resistance)
  • Necromancer: protection, (reaper: fury, scourge: shades)
  • Ranger: regen, (druid: vigor, soulbeast: fury)
  • Mesmer: quickness, (chrono: alacrity, mirage: vigor)
  • Engineer: stability, (scrapper: swiftness, holo: protection)
  • Revenant: resistance, (herald: alacrity, renegade: fury)
  • Elementalist: fury, (tempest: auras, weaver: vigor)
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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:I can see resistance as a thematic boon to have for necromancer.

Basically, a Necro would have resistance in order to pile on conditions onto themself, and then using plague sendings to send it to others...being a literal aids bag would make sense for a necromancer.

As for boons that it can share to others? I’m not so sure about. A reaper should be able to share boons in the form of shouts, or Wells. It seems protection and might are its primary boons as of right now, which may change. The way I see it:

Thief: Quickness and swiftnessGuardian : Aegis and stabilityWarrior : retaliation and mightNecromancer : Protection and resistanceRanger : Vigor and regerationMesmer : Alacrity and vigorEngineer : Stability and swiftnessReverent : Fury and quicknessElementalist : Regernation and Aegis

Honnestly, what you propose is way to different than the current boons these professions can grant to allies. There is no way ANet's gonna change professions that much. ATM:
  • Thief can perma: vigor, swiftness, might and fury (
    no quickness
    )
  • Guardian have an easy way sharing: protection, regen, retaliation, might, aegis, quickness and stability
  • Warrior excel at might, share easily fury and regen while also having some way to grant vigor (
    no retaliation
    )
  • Necromancer share protection, might and regen (
    no resistance
    )
  • Ranger share protection, might, swiftness, fury, regen and vigor
  • Mesmer share boons chaotically but excel at quickness and alacrity while it also grant reliably some swiftness and aegis. (
    no vigor
    )
  • Engineer share protection, might, swiftness, regen, fury, retaliation, stability, quickness and vigor
  • Revenant share resistance, alacrity, might, fury, swiftness, protection, regen, stability and retaliation (
    revenants don't share quickness
    )
  • Elementalists share protection, swiftness, might, fury, regen and stability (
    no aegis
    )

It's unlikely that ANet will add new sharable boons to the kit of the professions when they can already make use of the existing stuff. If they are going to specialize each profession into sharing a single boon (and maybe make use of the e-spec to add a thematic extra boon each time) it would be more:

Universal; might
  • Thief: swiftness, (daredevil: vigor, deadeye: fury)
  • Guardian: retaliation, (DH: aegis, firebrand: quickness)
  • Warrior: vigor, (berserker: fury, SB: resistance)
  • Necromancer: protection, (reaper: fury, scourge: shades)
  • Ranger: regen, (druid: vigor, soulbeast: fury)
  • Mesmer: quickness, (chrono: alacrity, mirage: vigor)
  • Engineer: stability, (scrapper: swiftness, holo: protection)
  • Revenant: resistance, (herald: alacrity, renegade: fury)
  • Elementalist: fury, (tempest: auras, weaver: vigor)

Engineer does seem a bit off there for me.Core Engineer should primarily share protection (we have a grandmaster trait in inventions that makes us clean a condition on allies we share protection with), meanwhile Scrapper as the supportive tank should share stability. Holosmith as a primarily aggressive DPS spec shouldn't share a defensive boon like protection, but something like quickness, or fury.

I agree with the general idea to focus the classes on a primary boon to share, tho.

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@"Kodama.6453" said:Engineer does seem a bit off there for me.Core Engineer should primarily share protection (we have a grandmaster trait in inventions that makes us clean a condition on allies we share protection with), meanwhile Scrapper as the supportive tank should share stability. Holosmith as a primarily aggressive DPS spec shouldn't share a defensive boon like protection, but something like quickness, or fury.

I agree with the general idea to focus the classes on a primary boon to share, tho.

Truth be told, I chose swiftness for scrapper because it's original intent was to combo with electric field and generate swiftness/superspeed to heal himself, I could have said superspeed instead of swiftness thought.

For core, I choose stability because the engineer still have a large choice of boons while the necromancer don't :) . And I purposedly avoided to have 2 core spec with the same primary boon shared. Nothing more, really.

Holo got protection for a silly reason as well... Holo tend to have quite a lot of damage reduction in it's skills and happen to share prot.

All in all, the e-specs don't have "primary role" and can be adapt to a wide variety of role based on how you build. I don't think making your allies attack faster or have higher crit fit holo.

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@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:20% condition damage reduction is fine where it is - inside dark defiance. If it was in putrid defense, it would weaken shroud buils since you would not be able to have shrouded removal and the reduction at the same time. And passive anti-condi defenses for shroud are needed badly.

Putrid defense in what I wrote reduce condi duration not damage. I didn't suggest a damage reduction of dark defiance.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Kodama.6453" said:Engineer does seem a bit off there for me.Core Engineer should primarily share protection (we have a grandmaster trait in inventions that makes us clean a condition on allies we share protection with), meanwhile Scrapper as the supportive tank should share stability. Holosmith as a primarily aggressive DPS spec shouldn't share a defensive boon like protection, but something like quickness, or fury.

I agree with the general idea to focus the classes on a primary boon to share, tho.

Truth be told, I chose swiftness for scrapper because it's original intent was to combo with electric field and generate swiftness/superspeed to heal himself, I could have said superspeed instead of swiftness thought.

For core, I choose stability because the engineer still have a large choice of boons while the necromancer don't :) . And I purposedly avoided to have 2 core spec with the same primary boon shared. Nothing more, really.

Holo got protection for a silly reason as well... Holo tend to have quite a lot of damage reduction in it's skills and happen to share prot.

All in all, the e-specs don't have "primary role" and can be adapt to a wide variety of role based on how you build. I don't think making your allies attack faster or have higher crit fit holo.

Yeah, but the scrapper not really has many electric fields left anymore. Just 2 from hammer and shredder gyro and they heavily cut his ability to share superspeed as well. So it seems that these are not really the intention for that elite spec anymore. Meanwhile both aesthetically and playstylewise, making him a supportive tank makes sense and granting stability to the team would fit perfectly here imo.

I understand that you want protection to be a necromancer thing, but like I said, we have a grandmaster trait and alot of the engineers group support via condi clean is tied to it. Not to mention that it holds alot of power in combination with the scrapper, giving it a supportive style, too. Changing that again would require alot of rework for the core engineer again. And giving protection to allies fits the engineer thematically just as much as the necromancer.

And I disagree that the elite specs don't have a primary role. They seem to get designed around a specific playstyle.Deadeye for example, to give the thief a dedicated elite spec for single target ranged DPS. Holosmith was clearly designed as a DPS spec, too. The photon forge brings nothing but great damage to the table.Druid was clearly designed around being a dedicated healer and support. I don't think there is much room to deny that elite specs fall primarily into a specific role, even if you can adjust them to do something else too.

And the reason why Holosmith has alot of damage reduction built in: Holosmith is a DPS elite spec expected to be in melee range. These are tools to let him be a fragile damage dealer, even if he has to get in danger unlike the Deadeye, which is also a DPS spec from PoF. If you look at the damage reduction Holosmith gets, then it is almost exclusively selfish. Self damage reduction on spectrum shield (utility skill) and Light Density Amplifier (trait). He can share protection with Hard Light Arena, but allies just get decreased boon duration from it.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:20% condition damage reduction is fine where it is - inside dark defiance. If it was in putrid defense, it would weaken shroud buils since you would not be able to have shrouded removal and the reduction at the same time. And passive anti-condi defenses for shroud are needed badly.

Putrid defense
in what I wrote reduce condi
duration
not damage. I didn't suggest a damage reduction of
dark defiance
.

Oh! my bad! That sounds better!

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:Engineer does seem a bit off there for me.Core Engineer should primarily share protection (we have a grandmaster trait in inventions that makes us clean a condition on allies we share protection with), meanwhile Scrapper as the supportive tank should share stability. Holosmith as a primarily aggressive DPS spec shouldn't share a defensive boon like protection, but something like quickness, or fury.

I agree with the general idea to focus the classes on a primary boon to share, tho.

Truth be told, I chose swiftness for scrapper because it's original intent was to combo with electric field and generate swiftness/superspeed to heal himself, I could have said superspeed instead of swiftness thought.

For core, I choose stability because the engineer still have a large choice of boons while the necromancer don't :) . And I purposedly avoided to have 2 core spec with the same primary boon shared. Nothing more, really.

Holo got protection for a silly reason as well... Holo tend to have quite a lot of damage reduction in it's skills and happen to share prot.

All in all, the e-specs don't have "primary role" and can be adapt to a wide variety of role based on how you build. I don't think making your allies attack faster or have higher crit fit holo.

Yeah, but the scrapper not really has many electric fields left anymore. Just 2 from hammer and shredder gyro and they heavily cut his ability to share superspeed as well. So it seems that these are not really the intention for that elite spec anymore. Meanwhile both aesthetically and playstylewise, making him a supportive tank makes sense and granting stability to the team would fit perfectly here imo.

I understand that you want protection to be a necromancer thing, but like I said, we have a grandmaster trait and alot of the engineers group support via condi clean is tied to it. Not to mention that it holds alot of power in combination with the scrapper, giving it a supportive style, too. Changing that
again
would require alot of rework for the core engineer again. And giving protection to allies fits the engineer thematically just as much as the necromancer.

And I disagree that the elite specs don't have a primary role. They seem to get designed around a specific playstyle.Deadeye for example, to give the thief a dedicated elite spec for single target ranged DPS. Holosmith was clearly designed as a DPS spec, too. The photon forge brings nothing but great damage to the table.Druid was
clearly
designed around being a dedicated healer and support. I don't think there is much room to deny that elite specs fall primarily into a specific role, even if you can adjust them to do something else too.

And the reason why holosmith has alot of damage reductio built in: Holosmith is a DPS elite spec expected to be in melee range. These are tools to let him be a fragile damage dealer, even if he has to get in danger unlike the Deadeye, which is also a DPS spec from PoF. If you look at the damage reduction Holosmith gets, then it is almost exclusively selfish. Self damage reduction on spectrum shield (utility skill) and Light Density Amplifier (trait). He can share protection with Hard Light Arena, but allies just get decreased boon duration from it.

I thought holos had a good deal of buffs? I encountered more than 1 holo with 5 different types of buff, so does he have the potential to be supportive?

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:Engineer does seem a bit off there for me.Core Engineer should primarily share protection (we have a grandmaster trait in inventions that makes us clean a condition on allies we share protection with), meanwhile Scrapper as the supportive tank should share stability. Holosmith as a primarily aggressive DPS spec shouldn't share a defensive boon like protection, but something like quickness, or fury.

I agree with the general idea to focus the classes on a primary boon to share, tho.

Truth be told, I chose swiftness for scrapper because it's original intent was to combo with electric field and generate swiftness/superspeed to heal himself, I could have said superspeed instead of swiftness thought.

For core, I choose stability because the engineer still have a large choice of boons while the necromancer don't :) . And I purposedly avoided to have 2 core spec with the same primary boon shared. Nothing more, really.

Holo got protection for a silly reason as well... Holo tend to have quite a lot of damage reduction in it's skills and happen to share prot.

All in all, the e-specs don't have "primary role" and can be adapt to a wide variety of role based on how you build. I don't think making your allies attack faster or have higher crit fit holo.

Yeah, but the scrapper not really has many electric fields left anymore. Just 2 from hammer and shredder gyro and they heavily cut his ability to share superspeed as well. So it seems that these are not really the intention for that elite spec anymore. Meanwhile both aesthetically and playstylewise, making him a supportive tank makes sense and granting stability to the team would fit perfectly here imo.

I understand that you want protection to be a necromancer thing, but like I said, we have a grandmaster trait and alot of the engineers group support via condi clean is tied to it. Not to mention that it holds alot of power in combination with the scrapper, giving it a supportive style, too. Changing that
again
would require alot of rework for the core engineer again. And giving protection to allies fits the engineer thematically just as much as the necromancer.

And I disagree that the elite specs don't have a primary role. They seem to get designed around a specific playstyle.Deadeye for example, to give the thief a dedicated elite spec for single target ranged DPS. Holosmith was clearly designed as a DPS spec, too. The photon forge brings nothing but great damage to the table.Druid was
clearly
designed around being a dedicated healer and support. I don't think there is much room to deny that elite specs fall primarily into a specific role, even if you can adjust them to do something else too.

And the reason why holosmith has alot of damage reductio built in: Holosmith is a DPS elite spec expected to be in melee range. These are tools to let him be a fragile damage dealer, even if he has to get in danger unlike the Deadeye, which is also a DPS spec from PoF. If you look at the damage reduction Holosmith gets, then it is almost exclusively selfish. Self damage reduction on spectrum shield (utility skill) and Light Density Amplifier (trait). He can share protection with Hard Light Arena, but allies just get decreased boon duration from it.

I thought holos had a good deal of buffs? I encountered more than 1 holo with 5 different types of buff, so does he have the potential to be supportive?

Well, he can be supportive, just like every other elite spec in this entire game has the potential to.When it comes to the skillset solely provided by the elite spec and not looking at the core aspect of the Engineer, then he really doesn't have much support.

Just Hard Light Arena provides boons for the group, giving 12 seconds of protection, fury, and regeneration on a 45 seconds cooldown. All other Holosmith skills are damage based or defense solely for the Holosmith, completely selfish. So all the supportive potential of a Holosmith you encountered basically all came from core Engineer and not the elite spec itself.

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