Renegade should be a minion master

I really love renegade, the weapon feels good, and the elite specialization concept of a warband leader works very well. Definitely in my top 3 of PoF elite specs.

My problem lies with the slot skills. They’re passive, spririt/totem-like minions, which is very underwhelming for the core concept, and doesn’t really add anything new to the profession.

I think renegade could improve a lot by changing the slot skills to actual active warband members, fighting by your side.

Their passive abilities can stay with them while they move, or they can be activated after being summoned (like necromancer’s minions, or guardian’s spirit weapons).

These warband members can be inspired by the existing skills, or even better, by different charr heroes from different ages.

Also, there’s something I dislike from both herald and renegade: The new mechanic skills are designed for the new legend, and don’t change when you switch legend.

This meant that the original legends got nothing new to play with, which was very underwhelming.

For reference, these are the renegade skills: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Renegade

What if we reorder the mechanic and slot skills a bit, and leave some minion-summoning at F2, F3, and F4?

This way, when you switch to Jalis, you can now summon ancient dwarven henchmen to fight beside you, with a new visual appearance, and maybe even different skills and effects.

Summarized:

• Turn renegade slot skills into minion skills, which can fight your enemies. Their current effects can stay while they’re alive, or be activated after summoned.
• Adapt the legend mechanic skills so that the other legends can summon their own minions as well, giving the original legends something new to play with.

I think this would make renegade much more fun than what currently is.

Original thread: https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/revenant/Renegade-should-be-a-minion-master

I love this idea, controlling an ancient char warband sounds like an amazing experience. We only have one minion class, whats stopping Anet from making another? Are they terribly unpopular?

I would love it if the warband summons would be able to move beside you. It seems odd to me that they are just static ghosts. Give them freedom :3

Now, now. Renegade summons are fine as they are. Short and actually AoEs. The summons aren't really AI, just indicators of where the AoEs go for their short durations.

If Renegade was an actual AI specialization, then we would have no chance of ever getting the Togo legend to become Ritualists.

And the Togo legend just HAS to happen.

But, if you're not going to give the spirits the benefits and features of AI why would you make them killable, especially since they last so short. At least turrets and stuff last a long time.

I wouldn't hate it but it's not going to happen and probably shouldn't happen. Minion builds usually end up being pretty weak in this game due to the AI of them being terrible. On top of that, it would make Kalla a must pick for AI builds, even if you give other legends summons, she would be the only one dedicated to them. Even further, when swapping legends comes the problem of "should the old minions die?" If you do make that choice, then they're not going to be up for very long with a 0.75 cast time when you'll probably have to switch after 10s due to energy costs and if you give them cast abilities then there's no big difference to other utility skills. If you don't then you need a duration otherwise you'll overload the game with an army of charr ghosts (as awesome as that sounds) and at that point it's basically just Kalla again.

A flaw in your assumptions is that the mechanic skills are only usable for Kalla. From playing what sparce amounts of Renegade we've been allowed to play I've felt the opposite. Both Kalla and the orders require a ludicrous amount of energy to use and the orders do not benefit Kalla's summons. They work better as a stand alone legend that you always have access to. Turning them into summons would only embolden the need to bring the new legend to get that MM vibe going.

I don't think renegade is that well off right now because the mechanic skills are so weak, out of place and costly that they don't fit into any build Renegade can run, so they do need an adjustment. I like the bombardment because having an ghostly artillery strike made of exploding unicorns is something so amazing it melts my brain when I experience it, but the other two skills suck. Who in their right minds is going to defend something as useless as Heroic Command and why would I want alacrity on a class that doesn't need cooldowns?! Order's from Above wouldn't even be good if we did need cooldowns, the duration and the AoE is so small you'll only help in PvE stacking scenarios.

@ScottBroChill.3254 said:But, if you're not going to give the spirits the benefits and features of AI why would you make them killable, especially since they last so short. At least turrets and stuff last a long time.

... Wait, the warband ghosts can be killed? Wh-... Why is that a thing?

@Hooglese.4860 said:... I don't think renegade is that well off right now because the mechanic skills are so weak, out of place and costly that they don't fit into any build Renegade can run, so they do need an adjustment. I like the bombardment because having an ghostly artillery strike made of exploding unicorns is something so amazing it melts my brain when I experience it, but the other two skills kitten. Who in their right minds is going to defend something as useless as Heroic Command and why would I want alacrity on a class that doesn't need cooldowns?! Order's from Above wouldn't even be good if we did need cooldowns, the duration and the AoE is so small you'll only help in PvE stacking scenarios.I fully agree with this. The spec, on the whole , is tuned way down and far too costly to be effective.

All said, I love the Ritualist vibe of it. And it is fun to play :)

I'm all for summoning rampaging Charr!

@Bluntdaddy.3914 said:I love this idea, controlling an ancient char warband sounds like an amazing experience. We only have one minion class, whats stopping Anet from making another? Are they terribly unpopular?

They would need to improve AI controls, but it shouldn't be that hard. Pets and minions only really give problems when you can't control them properly.

Also, if it wasn't left clear at the first post, the charr warband would only be available for the Renegade legend. The other legends would have their own versions as well. Some ideas:

• Assassin - Shiro: Shiro'ken constructs.
• Centaur - Ventari: Various centaur shamans.
• Demon - Mallyx: Different margonite henchmen.
• Dwarf - Jalis: Dwarven bodyguards.

Of course, Renegade would still have the best synergy with the minions, but the other ones would have new toys too, so you don't really need Kalla to have fun with renegade.

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:Now, now. Renegade summons are fine as they are. Short and actually AoEs. The summons aren't really AI, just indicators of where the AoEs go for their short durations.

If Renegade was an actual AI specialization, then we would have no chance of ever getting the Togo legend to become Ritualists.

And the Togo legend just HAS to happen.

The current iteration is closer to ritualist than a minion master idea would ever be.

I would love this so much.... I would main this shit so fast.

Is it just me, or do "Good Ideas" never seem to happen when it comes to Revenant?

They should had made the summons works like phantasm instead of wells.Eg : Razorclaw fires a projectile, if it hits give your next attack xx bleed stacks. Darkrazor/icerazor do their thing similar to now except they actually chase after the target?Soulcleaver... no idea. I hardly ever use this upkeep skill myself. Weak dmg after ninja nerf, weak life leech. Waste of energy imo.

Making them movable yet killable like phantasm at least make them pressure human players more. Still doesn't break lore since they are spirits to begin with, not to mention freaking charrs. As if charrs wouldn't want to beat the crap out of anyone. As we won't even have shatters so it's not similar to mesmer.