Thief's New Elite Spec : Edited

I got an idea for new e-spec. Since you all so hard want us to become support and since all normal ppl here still want to remain DPS power or condi based. AND since we need some protection instead of stealth since we cant always rely on that. I came up with BAlANcEd idea to make new espec for thief

Name : MercenaryNew weapon : Off hand swordYour elite is still Steal but a bit different i will explain in TraitsAttacks

3 with MH dagger : Sliding Blade costs 5 ini insta cast = The attack consists of two parts : Block for 1 sec if you are attacked and block out the attack you stun opponent for 0,5 sec you will get access to second part (doesnt cost ini) which is attacking enemy back applying 3 stacks of Bleeding with basic dmg 660 for 10 sec (its same as Death blossom)If you wont get attacked you will dodge in the way of movement (standard dodge)

3 with MH pistol : Itching back costs 4 ini cast time insta cast, range 200 = You will daze enemy with shot from pistol and then dodge behind him stabbing his back with the sword. This attack applies 4 stacks of Tornemnt for 5 sec with basic dmg 550,

3 with MH sword : Cut Cut Cut!! costs 5 ini insta cast, lasting time 2 sec, breaks stun grants Fury and Swiftness at cast and Might with each hit. 12 hits to 2 targets in front of you (yes it has cleave) you can't move while it is casted and if you get attacked durring its cast time your opponent gets stunned for 0,5 sec. If you get interupted you are knocked down for 1 sec and loose 2 ini

4 Silence! costs 5 ini cast 0,5 sec, range 900, Shadowstep to your enemy and interrupt them. Unblockable. After hitting you shadowstep right back to your previous spot.

5 The Fog costs 5 ini has field AoE 300 cast time 1 sec you leap to the location and spin with ur sword casting Dark field. Allies gain regen and heal for 500 each second they are in the field which lasts for 5 seconds. Enemies get blinded for 1 sec each second they are in the field.

Utilities

1 Boom! : CD 25 sec cast time 0,5 sec, A trap which if triggered explodes and knockbacks your foes for 300 away from the location of explosion, it implies criple for 5 sec and bleeding + poison both for 6 sec with base dmg 6602 Its just sugar! : cd 25 sec insta cast if you cast it you gain 10 stacks of might for 10 sec and 5 sec of quickness no passive effect3 Eagerness can kill : cd 30 sec insta cast time a signet which if casted will regen 8 ini no passive effect4 This is mine now! : cd 40 sec cast time 0,5 sec A trap which if triggered converts all boons on your target into conditions and changes all your conditions into boons.

Elite: It's On Me! : cd 25 sec cast time 1 sec A signet that grants all the boons you got on yourself to your next 5 allies AoE range 500 the boons are removed from you taking them away from you.

TraitlineYour Steal changes its shadowstep range to 2k you daze your enemy for 1 sec upon impact you gain 3 ini and deal base dmg 600 and 3 stacks of poison with base dmg 600 cd 18 sec

Novice:1 Eeagerness can kill = Once per interval if you clean a condi from yourself, you cast minor Eagerness can kill restoring 2 ini cd 10 sec2 My little badges = Signets gain 8 sec reduced recharge and clean 2 conditions of you3 Best enemies forever = If you interrupt a foe apply 1 stack of bleeding on them with base dmg 200 cd 3 sec

Wielding a dagger grants you 100 condi dmg

Adept1 Nice clean blade: If you wield a sword in both hands you gain +300 base power2 You dont need this: If you interrupt your foe you steal a boon from them cd 3 sec3 Second breath : If you heal your ally you heal yourself for 50% of the outcoming healing

Wielding a pistol grants you 200 expertise

Master:1 Paycheck : Granting boon to an ally will regenerate 25 endurance2 I will just move : Gain 2 extra dodges for cost of 15 % of your full life3 UU shiny: Each interrupt steals 2 boons but it increases the Steal recharge by 12 seconds

your oppinions are welcome ~~~~

This is dumb. MH dagger and OH sword make zero sense just as MH pistol.

Steal with daze is redundant using Trickery, with poison redundant with Serpent Touch, and with damage redundant with Mug. It seems you are aiming to dissolve Serpent Touch, Mug, and Sleight of Hand.

The rest is just as dumb. All wasted effort on something that is not well thought off. Why would anyone bother with "UU Shiny" if you can do better with Bountiful Theft.

This is my opinion, you said it's welcome.

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Your oppinion is always welcome Vin. You are one of the very few ppl that can make my day just by writing something on the internet. Thx m8 xD

Glad to ruin your sad attempt for a joke. I sure hope that's not your day job, because you're the only one who thinks you're funny.

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Glad to ruin your sad attempt for a joke. I sure hope that's not your day job, because you're the only one who thinks you're funny.

Dude if you are here to ruin ppls conversation i must tell you you should step up your game. And it wasnt a joke it was my idea and it is what i came up with. but i dont expect you to understand it. also i dont think i am funny. maybe you got some grudge against me but frankly i find your attempts on ''ruining'' my posts and conversation funny. Its a shame tho your life fullfilling activity is trying to ''ruin'' some random other ppls conversation on the internet. i hope it gets better for you.

Also EDITif you really want to ruin this idea of mine prove that it is wrongall you said so far is that it is dumband you gave one example of bountiful theft which actually doesnt make sense since we are talking about elite spec. You know you can run especs with 4 other core traits not requiring Trickery in them.if you think you can do it of course. I would like real examples with numbers and if possible some inside combat situationPVP and Raids would be enoughthat could keep you busy if you actually were up to take a chalenge and wanted to prove me wrong.alas that is not your point as we already know since you are just here to ''ruin'' it for me

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Glad to ruin your sad attempt for a joke. I sure hope that's not your day job, because you're the only one who thinks you're funny.

Yup, you've proven my point.

nah dancer elite spec..or bust.

this whole spec is a mix of already existing sigils/traits/weapon skills. nothing new/interesting.4 This is mine now! - dont u think its a bit, op?Every elite spec granted acces to new type of abilities- shouts, stances etc. here u have some signets some traps, and mix of everything.Steal with 2k range xd xdAnd ur steal is just a normal steal (with 2k range xdxd) with 3 diffrent core traits.i cant find any special direction of this spec, outside of the fact its stronk. as told its mix of everything

@Safandula.8723 said:this whole spec is a mix of already existing sigils/traits/weapon skills. nothing new/interesting.4 This is mine now! - dont u think its a bit, op?Every elite spec granted acces to new type of abilities- shouts, stances etc. here u have some signets some traps, and mix of everything.Steal with 2k range xd xdAnd ur steal is just a normal steal (with 2k range xdxd) with 3 diffrent core traits.i cant find any special direction of this spec, outside of the fact its stronk. as told its mix of everything

Yes it is. it is supposed to be mix of everything with focus on dps and support as everyone was crying for. but the main point was it wont loose the thief in a thief. you will still use the thief specs also it is meant to synergize with the previous set of core traits. also the 4 is not more op than anything we would have already seen in this game besides other classes would get another espec as well which could counter it to some point. And this all bulid is mean to be based on interupts so i dunno. maybe removing unblockable and casting time from it would make it less op tho other builds are farting blocks and every boon rn so... Also its base dmg is not that hig it is just a pistol 4 done with sword and more effective. I would increase the ini cost to 4 if it would have proven too strong.

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Glad to ruin your sad attempt for a joke. I sure hope that's not your day job, because you're the only one who thinks you're funny.

You've proven mine as well xD g'day to you

The names you gave the utilities and elites make them sound like shouts. Maybe thief can take up the mantle that shoutheal warrior left behind.

Kinda stopped reading at nice clean blade. There's absolutely nothing balanced about 500 extra power from dual swords when acro gives 240 power for mainland sword, 740 power total. With assassin's signet you'd be able to run celestial gear and do marauder/zerker level damage. Just no.

I'm curious to know what was my mistake that i didn't get any feedback on my espec suggestion and there are plenty of it here.

@Rinagal.9235 said:I'm curious to know what was my mistake that i didn't get any feedback on my espec suggestion and there are plenty of it here.

you see ppl already know me here so i'd say they came beacuse they either wanted to know what i got to say or they at least wanted to disprove like Vin does all the time :D or maybe for gigs :D

@Rinagal.9235 said:I'm curious to know what was my mistake that i didn't get any feedback on my espec suggestion and there are plenty of it here.

That is because you actually put together a valid suggestion that may or may not be considered. Compare that to the thoughtless Elite suggestion here, you actually put some thoughts into yours. If you don't get negative feedbacks, that's a good sign because 63 people, so far, have seen your post and has nothing bad to say about it.

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

That is because you actually put together a valid suggestion that may or may not be considered. Compare that to the thoughtless Elite suggestion here, you actually put some thoughts into yours. If you don't get negative feedbacks, that's a good sign because 63 people, so far, have seen your post and has nothing bad to say about it.

and in case of your posts Vin it is because nobody actually wants to talk to you cuz they know you will argue with them the end of times and beyond :)

This would be very op, also that steal is just a traited core steal. Idea was kinda good, but there is just too much everything.

So you want an Elite Spec that's not an ESpec, just a re-shuffling of core thief?Not exactly a terrible idea but your execution of it is terrible.Not sure whether I'm supposed to just laugh it off, or critique it for improvements.

@Yannir.4132 said:So you want an Elite Spec that's not an ESpec, just a re-shuffling of core thief?Not exactly a terrible idea but your execution of it is terrible.Not sure whether I'm supposed to just laugh it off, or critique it for improvements.

im opened to ideas.my point was to create a boon stealing (not striping) thief and since we are already strugling with what we got i gave a few traits to steal. my point was to make it still a bit core but a new one. with a slight spice of possible support still much dps. and no i dont think it would be too op just check what all other classes have and dont forget they will get something new as well. i agree some traits etc could be toned up but this was only the first idea if we are willing to discuss it here if ppl like it we can and maybe we would be able to make it to a new possible espec which we can present to Anetalso why would it be terrible? i dont get it

Okay if you are still here i made changes you can come check them to see if it looks better

Aight, let's go through them 1 by 1.

@Jack Redline.5379 said:3 with MH dagger : Sliding Blade costs 5 ini insta cast = The attack consists of two parts : Block for 1 sec if you are attacked and block out the attack you stun opponent for 0,5 sec you will get access to second part (doesnt cost ini) which is attacking enemy back applying 3 stacks of Bleeding with basic dmg 660 for 10 sec (its same as Death blossom)If you wont get attacked you will dodge in the way of movement (standard dodge)

This seems fine. Except the last part which seems clunky. Just have it dodge into a pre-determined direction.Also, stating the damage of a condition like this is weird. Condi damage is standard so stacks + duration is the information you want here.I'm also a bit confused as to what this skill wants to do. It has a bit of everything. Is it a power skill or a condi skill? Hybrid skills will just end up either being OP or sucking at both. Neither is good obviously.

3 with MH pistol : Itching back costs 4 ini cast time insta cast, range 200 = You will daze enemy with shot from pistol and then dodge behind him stabbing his back with the sword. This attack applies 4 stacks of Tornemnt for 5 sec with basic dmg 550,

This seems fine. Same problems as above.

3 with MH sword : Cut Cut Cut!! costs 5 ini insta cast, lasting time 2 sec, breaks stun grants Fury and Swiftness at cast and Might with each hit. 12 hits to 2 targets in front of you (yes it has cleave) you can't move while it is casted and if you get attacked durring its cast time your opponent gets stunned for 0,5 sec. If you get interupted you are knocked down for 1 sec and loose 2 ini

This is a bit overloaded with things. First up, the stunbreak needs to go. If you can find me another weapon skill(on any profession) that breaks stun, we can talk about it again. Also remove the stun on attack, and the self punish as well. Just not fun mechanics for anyone.

4 Silence! costs 5 ini cast 0,5 sec, range 900, Shadowstep to your enemy and interrupt them. Unblockable. After hitting you shadowstep right back to your previous spot.

This actually seems really cool.

5 The Fog costs 5 ini has field AoE 300 cast time 1 sec you leap to the location and spin with ur sword casting Dark field. Allies gain regen and heal for 500 each second they are in the field which lasts for 5 seconds. Enemies get blinded for 1 sec each second they are in the field.

Reduce the field duration to 3 seconds. Compare this to Well of Darkness on necromancer, and this one is just way bigger and better.

1 Boom! : CD 25 sec cast time 0,5 sec, A trap which if triggered explodes and knockbacks your foes for 300 away from the location of explosion, it implies criple for 5 sec and bleeding + poison both for 6 sec with base dmg 6602 Its just sugar! : cd 25 sec insta cast if you cast it you gain 10 stacks of might for 10 sec and 5 sec of quickness no passive effect3 Eagerness can kill : cd 35 sec cast time 1 sec a signet which if casted will regen 8 ini no passive effect4 This is mine now! : cd 40 sec cast time 0,5 sec A trap which if triggered converts all boons on your target into conditions and changes all your conditions into boons.

Elite: It's On Me! : cd 25 sec cast time 1 sec A signet that grants all the boons you got on yourself to your next 5 allies AoE range 500 the boons are removed from you taking them away from you.

Did I mention I kinda hate memes, which is why I hate these names. :lol:1 is overloaded. I'd go with just CC + damage.2 seems fine.3 it's not a Signet if there's no passive. It's a Trick basically. Seems a bit weak actually.4 needs a maximum number.

I'll get the rest later, gotta bounce for now.

@Yannir.4132 said:

First of all thank you for actual response man it is really appreciated.

So basically the whole build as i said is aiming to steal boons so basically every CC we got even tho it is small is meant as for boon steal which can be later on transfered onto others since everyone suddenly wants to get support. We will not be healers that is 10/10 sure since we dont have traits for it but this might just work as a boon sharer.

So the attack 3 for dagger/sword. first of all i stated exact condi it gives because that is the bleeds dmg for Death Blossom = 3 on d/d that is why i stated it so it can still remain CONDI based attack. The problem with predetermined dodge movement would be that you either dodge to a wall or you dodge away from the fight, neither is good and that is why i wanted it to be like standard dodge you would simply be moving lets say right, you dont get attacked you dodge right, no endurance spent ini cost is simply price you pay for not reconsidering it. Also it could give it a bit of a predictability which may help the defender or decieve him if thief changes it in last moment.

As far as the attack 3 on pistol/sword goes I wanted to have for thief something that grants tornment. We only have one attack that gives tornment which is Bouncing dagger 4 and this one would look really nice in combat sort of like that ninja stuff everyone wants you swap enemy stun him and slide along him stabbing him through. It was meant more as an iconic attack which is meant to stack tornment if done well since we also have Pressure Strikes which gives tornment on interupt.

I agree stunbreak is a bit too much but the point is that thief as such doesnt have that many defensive abilities we got exactly 5 utilities that break stun out of 2 are not used at all in end game PVE or PVP and WVW so i thought sneaking one into attack 3 would be okay. Besides it costs 5 ini which is a lot it is like sb 5 which is really usefull. I agree this one would not need stun on attack but since i put stun everywhere why not on sw/sw 3 but i agree it might go. Self punish was just a sort of a balance for the stun on atacking so if that one will go i would put self punish away as well.

I am happy you like the Silence :D also as far as the Fog goes it might be smaller then but i want it to last 5 seconds because it is supposed to be that one group healing skill for support we would have 500*5 2,5k which is at least a small healing output if some theif would decided to run plaguedoctor runes it could stack up pretty nicely and we could become a valid healers.

Well I love meymeys :P that is why the names they can obviously be changed :disappointed:

Well that is the thing it is boom so it has knockback :D and it is supposed to be trap the utilities would be 2 traps 2 signetsWhich brings me to the 3 it must be signet because the traitline focuses on signet when you will get there you will see also i wanted to change it and i will it is supposed to be insta cast basically RFI but as a signetMax number for the This is mine now will be 1 target but all the boons and all the condi on you

thank you again very much for the response i am glad at least someone is taking it a bit serious :D

@"Jack Redline.5379" said:I agree stunbreak is a bit too much but the point is that thief as such doesnt have that many defensive abilities we got exactly 5 utilities that break stun out of 2 are not used at all in end game PVE or PVP and WVW so i thought sneaking one into attack 3 would be okay. Besides it costs 5 ini which is a lot it is like sb 5 which is really usefull. I agree this one would not need stun on attack but since i put stun everywhere why not on sw/sw 3 but i agree it might go. Self punish was just a sort of a balance for the stun on atacking so if that one will go i would put self punish away as well.

Numbers-wise core thief has 5 stunbreaks yes but it's not a numbers game. 3 of those are really good ones.

Which brings me to the 3 it must be signet because the traitline focuses on signet when you will get there you will see also i wanted to change it and i will it is supposed to be insta cast basically RFI but as a signet

Just add a passive to it, and Voila! It's a Signet.

Max number for the This is mine now will be 1 target but all the boons and all the condi on you

That is still a very powerful skill. Compare it to Arcane Thievery on Mesmer. It has a cap of 3 boons and 3 conditions.I know it's compelling to make "The Anti-Boonbeast" but that needs to happen by nerfing boonbeast, and not by bringing more powercreep.

@"Jack Redline.5379" said:Elite: It's On Me! : cd 25 sec cast time 1 sec A signet that grants all the boons you got on yourself to your next 5 allies AoE range 500 the boons are removed from you taking them away from you.

Again, needs a passive to be called a signet.

TraitlineYour Steal changes its shadowstep range to 2k you daze your enemy for 1 sec upon impact you gain 3 ini and deal base dmg 600 and 3 stacks of poison with base dmg 600 cd 18 sec

I'm not really opposed to the range increase but everything else here is too much. If you go DA as a second traitline, you basically get to double up on everything.

Novice:1 Eeagerness can kill = Once per interval if you clean a condi from yourself, you cast minor Eagerness can kill restoring 2 ini cd 10 sec2 My little badges = Signets gain 8 sec reduced recharge and clean 2 conditions of you3 Best enemies forever = If you interrupt a foe apply 1 stack of bleeding on them with base dmg 200 cd 3 sec

1 seems fine.2 kinda overlaps with 1. Both clear condis so you obviously just pick the better one.3 seems fine.

Wielding a dagger grants you 100 condi dmg

I don't think we really need MORE weapon traits. And what if you don't wield a dagger? Kinda useless innit?

Adept1 Nice clean blade: If you wield a sword in both hands you gain +300 base power

Same here as with the dagger.

2 You dont need this: If you interrupt your foe you steal a boon from them cd 3 sec

Seems fine.

3 Second breath : If you heal your ally you heal yourself for 50% of the outcoming healing

3. It's outgoing, not outcoming. Considering thieves healing output is minimal even with the Fog, don't think it's OP or anything but will it even really be worth the pick? Thief has pretty good self-healing if you spec Invigorating Precision, Signet of Malice and Assassin's Reward so it's not really needed.

Wielding a pistol grants you 200 expertise

Same here as with the dagger.

Master:1 Paycheck : Granting boon to an ally will regenerate 25 endurance2 I will just move : Gain 2 extra dodges for cost of 15 % of your full life3 UU shiny: Each interrupt steals 2 boons but it increases the Steal recharge by 12 seconds

1 seems a bit too powerful. Consider Might Makes Right on Warrior. They get 2 endurance for applying Might to themselves. Now your ESpec here makes boonshare really easy for Thief. It also makes the 2nd Grandmaster useless since this essentially does the same thing but without a downside.3 seems alright. Not very exciting though.

Weren't you dying inside each time you were seeing this kind of threads?All in all, there is to many thing that overlap with existing things on the core thief for the spec to have a real identity.

@Dadnir.5038 said:Weren't you dying inside each time you were seeing this kind of threads?All in all, there is to many thing that overlap with existing things on the core thief for the spec to have a real identity.

I think the point was always that the suggestions deviated too much from the core idea of thief. What he's trying to do here is give an elite idea that's at it's core still thief, not a sniper, or an acrobat, or a shadow mage, etc. Rather a new iteration of the core class.