Poll: Should wvw have class caps per map?

A friend of mine brought this up, and I am pretty much on board with this idea of class caps. Here is the question, Would you like to see anet bring about class caps into wvw? Yes or No.

It was my understanding that a core tenant of Guild Wars 2 was inclusion when it comes to player participation (not meaning every class is efficient). This is to say, that any mechanic/rule to out right reject a player from attempting to play goes against one of ANET's design philosophies. So, naturally, it's a no.

D:

First thing I thought of is someone trying to enter a map and getting a message saying that there are too many of your favorite class to play on this map right now. I don't see any good way for that to end.

I think a better question would be: Why tho?

Would be awesome when the commander cant join a map because the map cap is full.

Ohhhh god the potential trolling would be crazy!!

Or map jumping where only halve your zerg can jump.

How many people can get on ebg?80 or something?

Lets say a cap of 9 per class.Good luck finding 9 engineers.

Nobody wants a particular playstyle be forcibly stuffed down their throat. For obvious reasons.

If I can't bring my favourite class to play, I'll probably either stop playing or bring a sub-geared class with terrible proficiency which wouldn't be helping anyone.

A proficient player on a terrible class is better than a terrible player on a meta class.

No, there are probably better ways of making all chars viable in WvW. Perhaps nerf the ridiculous boonshare and healing by 75% and the overal damage by 50% to make fights last a bit longer than the one shot spikeshow it is now.But there are probably better ideas out there.

I suppose an argument could be made for a game mode where teams queued up together, though imposing class caps is just a blatant admission of class imbalances, and taking the 'easy' way out isn't something the community should accept.

But for what is essentially an open world type PvP game mode, no, there should be no restrictions outside technical limitations (eg population cap)

@"Xtinct.7031" said:A friend of mine brought this up, and I am pretty much on board with this idea of class caps. Here is the question, Would you like to see anet bring about class caps into wvw? Yes or No.

I have some sincere questions, and I'm not trying to be rude either...

Did you really not think of the negatives? You really can't see that a system design that tells players what they potentially can and can't play is bad? Where in your mind do you feel it would be OK of Anet to tell players they HAVE to play X profession on X map at times under certain circumstances?

I'm sorry but you really need to think things through. When brining up ideas you need to have thought about the negatives too, not just the initial idea you feel is great.

Edit- And I want to be clear about something... WvW was designed to be more like an "open world sandbox" RvR mode. NOT structured like structured player versus player 5v5 mode…

There is only a single reason I can think of why this cap would make sense: To prevent a pure necromancer + minion zerg from crashing the server and/or weaker clients.

@DanAlcedo.3281 I guess the limit would be more like 20 of each profession with 80 being the map's total capacity. The limit should be high enough, so you don't notice it under normal circumstances.

I want to know what this would accomplish except to drastically reduce the number of guardians? I think that's the only class that are currently desired more than one per party. Maybe scourges? But I LIKE lots of both classes. I mean. Can you imagine trying to get an equal amount of chronos at the moment?

And if for some reason some morning there are 55 thieves all trying to do dailies well, let 'em.

So like ten of each allowed?

What is it with people wanting to place all manner of arbitrary and pointless limits on WvW all of a sudden? Between the forums and reddit, we have people wanting to limit squad sizes, people wanting to mechanically prevent ganking, people wanting to forbid dueling, and now you want to limit class/comp? smh

0 roaming classes cap and i'm good with it :bleep_bloop:

While I can appreciate the class diversity brought to the front of everyone's mind, its just not the game to be doing that with. Not to mention the fact that whoever had the "OP Meta" classes would be the target of harassment by their own allies if they were not running it perfect in their minds (hello wvw guild raids).

@"Justine.6351" said:While I can appreciate the class diversity brought to the front of everyone's mind, its just not the game to be doing that with. Not to mention the fact that whoever had the "OP Meta" classes would be the target of harassment by their own allies if they were not running it perfect in their minds (hello wvw guild raids).

Exactly. Instead of people getting mad at folks running rangers (for fear of bearbows etc), people would get made at necros who weren't perfectly positioning their wells, mesmers would didn't stealth perfectly. Toxicity would grow, rather than diminish. Right now, only some commanders care about what you run. With this suggestion, nearly everyone would care.

Plus it ignores the sheer diversity in the way people approach the game. GvG, organized squads, blobs, roamers, small squad roaming, etc.

@Israel.7056 said:So like ten of each allowed?

I was thinking maybe a cap of like.. 50?

Class caps to make who happy? Commanders and Meta-oriented zerglings would complain about too few Scourges and Heralds in their squad, and would start to hate on roaming Reapers and Heralds, that occupy precious slots. They would still have to deal with „too many“ Thieves, Soulbeasts and Engi-Specs on the map (+ other roamers), occupying / blocking squad slots, even if the cap would be low, lets say 10.

Mid-scale Guild groups want to play their exact class composition, so they would be pissed off, too.

As a roamer one would still encounter the usual Thief specs, Soulbeasts, Mirages, Holos and Core Warriors / Spellbreakers, because those are not dominant classes in Zergs, and thus would not reach the cap. Diversity would even be lower, because as a roamer on would encounter less Reapers, Heralds and Core Guards / DHs, since zerglings alone would already reach the respective cap.

That would leave role-playing zerglings as profiteers. Though, I doubt they would enjoy the game more, only because some Scourges and Heralds are replaced by some more roaming-oriented classes. Commanders might then jump on empty maps, with no roaming Reapers, Heralds and Core Guards / DHs on it, just to optimize their zerg composition.

Not sure if 50-scourge zergs are a prevalent problem?

Much easier on the competitive team than, you know... Balancing the classes

To look on the bright side

@enkidu.5937 said:Diversity would even be lower, because as a roamer on would encounter less Reapers, Heralds and Core Guards / DHs, since zerglings alone would already reach the respective cap.Yet at the same time higher, such a system is probably the only way for classes like mesmers and thieves to actually reach numbers of 10 per side (imagine 60 mesmers and thieves on a map!).

Its kind of funny.

Wanna troll a guild or commander? Everyone get on guardian and sit in spawn. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of fun.

Why try and dictate how others play the game?

I don't post often but your friend must not play WvW often if they think this is a good idea.

If there is to be more class diversity each class needs to be well balanced overall.

The problem right now is you need guardians (firebrands/core) for stability and support, scourges for frequent condi removal + barriers (capped at 50% of HP) and ranged boon corrupt , reapers for even higher power damage with boon corrupt, revenants for 10 man fury and ranged damage (with last patch they can also fulfill healing more) as well as rite of the great dwarf, weavers/damage tempests for blowing up siege on inside edge of walls or in certain chokepoints where CoR utterly fails due to elevation changes.

Mesmers are taken for veil , mantra of concentration, and gravity well, depending on build the blurred inscriptions' distortion provides aegis too. In their current state it isn't good for boon share since bountiful disillusionment doesn't share. Mirages are rampant in roaming largely due to elusive mind and other things that are extremely annoying for people to play against.

Spellbreaker warriors are largely taken for bubble (Winds of Disenchantment) and the PBAOE boon strip, and before that it was for banner to res people not fully downed. Scrapper engineers are largely taken for condi clear and/or healing , while in roaming holosmiths are often seen.

That leaves rangers and thieves. Druids , while popular in PvE don't have the sustain of guardians ; spirits are vaporized in larger fights. Druid's Celestial Avatar has zero damage compared to a minstrel's firebrand with mace except for the pulsed damage from Natural Convergence. Soulbeast is often seen as a roaming class due to the removal of the pet which is a liability often times in WvW. In a group comp maybe stance-share could work , longbow hits scourges hard if there's no projectile hate or terrain obstruction. Thieves typically come in two varieties: daredevils with unhindered combatant / Bound and deadeyes spamming rifle (in conjunction with Death's judgement).

If there is to be higher class diversity then likely firebrands' Epilogue- Eternal Oasis needs to be toned down from 20% and Chapter 1 Desert Bloom needs to be trimmed further. Most run Loremaster to retain Virtues passives while they are on cooldown. In theory , druid's Glyph of Empowerment is close.

Scourge's sand cascade would also need to be cut down in base barrier (or increased from 10s cooldown) and so would Sand Flare (which has a wrong tooltip).

To address the power creep from the runes/sigil changes would be a separate matter as scholar runes do more damage now due to the ferocity bonus (90%HP is harder to keep up in WvW than PvE); durability runes gained even more HP on classes with high HP such as warrior. There's outliers in rune of the elementalist (likely was buffed too much for condi) and sanctuary rune (basically broken with large groups but not wonderful otherwise) as well.

Map / Player caps > class caps. Map / Player caps disincentivize stacking, while class caps disincentivize participating all together.

I'm sure many people are in the same boat as myself, where I only play a couple of classes.

Absolutely not. Only place I could see class caps being potentially acceptable is in sPvP. In WvW this is a terrible idea because it is open world with big maps and no obligated objectives or coordination. What happens if all the guards decide to run DH and roam? Trolling potential would be way too high and honestly I just don't see why such a thing would ever be implemented.