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Matchmaking level concerns


kin korn karn.9023

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@kin korn karn.9023 said:Reasonable match quality is more important (at least to me) than keeping the queue fast.

Totally agree there. I'm a lowly plat 1 scrub, but even I get high silvers in my matches against other teams with recognizable top-ranked players. I'd rather wait 10-20 minutes for a real match instead of the curbstomps that the matchmaker throws together.

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The matchmaker is actually not the problem.

The problem is that the matchmaker needs a big playerbase to work.

Which pvp simply doesn’t have.

(For a good reason may i add)

Well its simple math really... Removing team queue meant removing growth..Like really, how many players is a lone solo queue player going to bring into the mists? Probably just himself.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The matchmaker is actually not the problem.

The problem is that the matchmaker needs a big playerbase to work.

Which pvp simply doesn’t have.

(For a good reason may i add)

Well its simple math really... Removing team queue meant removing growth..Like really, how many players is a lone solo queue player going to bring into the mists? Probably just himself.

Im pretty sure that things like Condi Mirage are more responsible for low pvp population.

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The matchmaker is actually not the problem.

The problem is that the matchmaker needs a big playerbase to work.

Which pvp simply doesn’t have.

(For a good reason may i add)

Well its simple math really... Removing team queue meant removing growth..Like really, how many players is a lone solo queue player going to bring into the mists? Probably just himself.

Im pretty sure that things like Condi Mirage are more responsible for low pvp population.

Nah balance was never an issue when having fun with friends and yolo builds like mirage were never an issue because yolo builds never worked in a team environment.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The matchmaker is actually not the problem.

The problem is that the matchmaker needs a big playerbase to work.

Which pvp simply doesn’t have.

(For a good reason may i add)

Well its simple math really... Removing team queue meant removing growth..

Except the game was already losing players back when it had various team queues. You don't really get growth in 6 year old MMORPGs (unless it was WoW in 2010), beyond some temporary blip due to going to F2P, an expansion, etc, the long term trend is nearly always down, especially in PvP. Doesn't matter what sort of queue they implement the long term trend will be one of decline.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The matchmaker is actually not the problem.

The problem is that the matchmaker needs a big playerbase to work.

Which pvp simply doesn’t have.

(For a good reason may i add)

Well its simple math really... Removing team queue meant removing growth..Like really, how many players is a lone solo queue player going to bring into the mists? Probably just himself.

Im pretty sure that things like Condi Mirage are more responsible for low pvp population.

Nah balance was never an issue when having fun with friends and yolo builds like mirage were never an issue because yolo builds never worked in a team environment.

Ye, for more experienced PvPers maybe.But for a new player, I wouldn't want to disregard balance.

Imagine being a completely new player. You - arguably - don't even know what your own skills are doing, even less so for classes you don't play yourself.If a new player like this, would give PvP (as it is rn) an honest try even, I really wouldn't be surprised if they'd say "nah fk this" after their ~10th game or so.

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@Zenix.6198 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The matchmaker is actually not the problem.

The problem is that the matchmaker needs a big playerbase to work.

Which pvp simply doesn’t have.

(For a good reason may i add)

Well its simple math really... Removing team queue meant removing growth..Like really, how many players is a lone solo queue player going to bring into the mists? Probably just himself.

Im pretty sure that things like Condi Mirage are more responsible for low pvp population.

Nah balance was never an issue when having fun with friends and yolo builds like mirage were never an issue because yolo builds never worked in a team environment.

Ye, for more experienced PvPers maybe.But for a new player, I wouldn't want to disregard balance.

Imagine being a completely new player. You - arguably - don't even know what your own skills are doing, even less so for classes you don't play yourself.If a new player like this, would give PvP (as it is rn) an honest try even, I really wouldn't be surprised if they'd say "nah kitten this" after their ~10th game or so.

This happened to someone i know.

He played tempest (support) and his first fight was like this:

He was going homes because nobody else did.

While capping he saw a warrior coming.

He thought „ Ok better use frost aura and protection to prepare for the fight“.

The warrior used rampage and killed him in two hits.

He never touched PvP again.

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IMO the classes are pretty well balanced. There's a big difference between balance and a new player getting crushed. If someone doesn't expect a bit of that to start, they probably don't have the disposition for pvp in the first place.

But this thread isn't about balance; it's about the disgraceful match quality. Too much is sacrificed to keep queue times low. I'd rather wait 15 minutes in the queue for a decent match than play two garbage matches in about the same time frame.

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The matchmaker is actually not the problem.

The problem is that the matchmaker needs a big playerbase to work.

Which pvp simply doesn’t have.

(For a good reason may i add)

Well its simple math really... Removing team queue meant removing growth..Like really, how many players is a lone solo queue player going to bring into the mists? Probably just himself.

Im pretty sure that things like Condi Mirage are more responsible for low pvp population.

Nah balance was never an issue when having fun with friends and yolo builds like mirage were never an issue because yolo builds never worked in a team environment.

Ye, for more experienced PvPers maybe.But for a new player, I wouldn't want to disregard balance.

Imagine being a completely new player. You - arguably - don't even know what your own skills are doing, even less so for classes you don't play yourself.If a new player like this, would give PvP (as it is rn) an honest try even, I really wouldn't be surprised if they'd say "nah kitten this" after their ~10th game or so.

This happened to someone i know.

He played tempest (support) and his first fight was like this:

He was going homes because nobody else did.

While capping he saw a warrior coming.

He thought „ Ok better use frost aura and protection to prepare for the fight“.

The warrior used rampage and killed him in two hits.

He never touched PvP again.

All of which would have been avoided with team queue and communication.

I was new but I was fortunate enough to play with my guild under team queue and I eventually got better through experience by having fun.

I get that expansions bring players in but playing with friends keeps them here, well for me anyway, I get some find playing with friends an extremely horrific experience when playing pvp in a massively multiplayer online game.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:Well its simple math really... Removing team queue meant removing growth..Like really, how many players is a lone solo queue player going to bring into the mists? Probably just himself.

Not really. All team queue did was allow 4 man teams to pubstomp the casual solo or duo players. That in itself was causing population declines. So fail to see how suddenly it would cause population growth.

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@kin korn karn.9023 said:Well, it could have a real limit in the MMR range for the players in any given match. 400+ variation is just absurd. I know, I know, queue times, whatever. Reasonable match quality is more important (at least to me) than keeping the queue fast.

Basically this is what I'd do too. Tighten up the deviation on who can be placed against who so there isn't such a wide swing on player MMR.

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@Spartacus.3192 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Well its simple math really... Removing team queue meant removing growth..Like really, how many players is a lone solo queue player going to bring into the mists? Probably just himself.

Not really. All team queue did was allow 4 man teams to pubstomp the casual solo or duo players. That in itself was causing population declines. So fail to see how suddenly it would cause population growth.

We had seperate queues so what you say is irrelevant... players still had an option to do solo or to do team queue for higher rewards depending on the player choice.

Feels like the people responding didnt start playing pvp till seasons were introduced.

5 people in the mists is a higher value than a solo player... solo players bring themselves to pvp while team players recruit and bring up to 5 players per round, it is very simple math that just about any body with half a brain will understand, its such a simple concept that I feel like a jerk just explaining something so simple.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Well its simple math really... Removing team queue meant removing growth..Like really, how many players is a lone solo queue player going to bring into the mists? Probably just himself.

Not really. All team queue did was allow 4 man teams to pubstomp the casual solo or duo players. That in itself was causing population declines. So fail to see how suddenly it would cause population growth.

We had seperate queues so what you say is irrelevant... players still had an option to do solo or to do team queue for higher rewards depending on the player choice.

Feels like the people responding didnt start playing pvp till seasons were introduced.

5 people in the mists is a higher value than a solo player... solo players bring themselves to pvp while team players recruit and bring up to 5 players per round, it is very simple math that just about any body with half a brain will understand, its such a simple concept that I feel like a jerk just explaining something so simple.

IMO 5-mans should only go against other 5-mans, and there should be a rewarding queue for that game mode.

I see no reason we can't have 1v1, 2v2, and 5v5 ranked or unranked, but supported, game modes outside of ATs. It kinda blows my mind we don't already have these.

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@Mbelch.9028 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Well its simple math really... Removing team queue meant removing growth..Like really, how many players is a lone solo queue player going to bring into the mists? Probably just himself.

Not really. All team queue did was allow 4 man teams to pubstomp the casual solo or duo players. That in itself was causing population declines. So fail to see how suddenly it would cause population growth.

We had seperate queues so what you say is irrelevant... players still had an option to do solo or to do team queue for higher rewards depending on the player choice.

Feels like the people responding didnt start playing pvp till seasons were introduced.

5 people in the mists is a higher value than a solo player... solo players bring themselves to pvp while team players recruit and bring up to 5 players per round, it is very simple math that just about any body with half a brain will understand, its such a simple concept that I feel like a jerk just explaining something so simple.

IMO 5-mans should only go against other 5-mans, and there should be a rewarding queue for that game mode.

I see no reason we can't have 1v1, 2v2, and 5v5 ranked or unranked, but supported, game modes outside of ATs. It kinda blows my mind we don't already have these.

Yea and it blew my mind that they removed it...

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Well its simple math really... Removing team queue meant removing growth..Like really, how many players is a lone solo queue player going to bring into the mists? Probably just himself.

Not really. All team queue did was allow 4 man teams to pubstomp the casual solo or duo players. That in itself was causing population declines. So fail to see how suddenly it would cause population growth.

We had seperate queues so what you say is irrelevant... players still had an option to do solo or to do team queue for higher rewards depending on the player choice.

Feels like the people responding didnt start playing pvp till seasons were introduced.

5 people in the mists is a higher value than a solo player... solo players bring themselves to pvp while team players recruit and bring up to 5 players per round, it is very simple math that just about any body with half a brain will understand, its such a simple concept that I feel like a jerk just explaining something so simple.

so you're talking about a queue system that has been gone over 3 years now? You do realise there are a lot of people who were not around back then.

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@Spartacus.3192 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:Well its simple math really... Removing team queue meant removing growth..Like really, how many players is a lone solo queue player going to bring into the mists? Probably just himself.

Not really. All team queue did was allow 4 man teams to pubstomp the casual solo or duo players. That in itself was causing population declines. So fail to see how suddenly it would cause population growth.

We had seperate queues so what you say is irrelevant... players still had an option to do solo or to do team queue for higher rewards depending on the player choice.

Feels like the people responding didnt start playing pvp till seasons were introduced.

5 people in the mists is a higher value than a solo player... solo players bring themselves to pvp while team players recruit and bring up to 5 players per round, it is very simple math that just about any body with half a brain will understand, its such a simple concept that I feel like a jerk just explaining something so simple.

so you're talking about a queue system that has been gone over 3 years now? You do realise there are a lot of people who were not around back then.

Hence my comment about the posts seeming like they are posted by those who came about after seasons were introduced..

It was a good system till it was changed then we were told its coming back and it did in the form of ATs but they arent frequent enough then we were told its going to be fixed with more frequent ATs and a swiss style set up of which we are still waiting on.

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:The matchmaker is actually not the problem.

The problem is that the matchmaker needs a big playerbase to work.

Which pvp simply doesn’t have.

This.If Arenanet decides to spend even an iota of time on PvP instead of introducing cash grab trash for PvE, we may have a chance of seeing improved matchmaking and introducing more players to PvP.

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