Please fix game balance - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Please fix game balance

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  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2019

    I’ve spent more time on thief than any of my alts and I can tell u other roam such as ranger and mirage and these days holo do a better job at roaming and are far better duelers aswell,as I play them often aswell. Ranger,mirage make better +1 and decaps,can hold a cap etc thief fails in zergs and don’t say the DD jumping around like a monkey in the middle of Zerg is viable, a true testament to how poor thief is doing is people resort to perma stealth DE to get kills these days and as long as non thief players keep whining there’s gonna be more DE players useing more cheese tactics and the cycle will continue until just no one plays thief at all and that’s healthy for the game lol

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I’ve spent more time on thief than any of my alts and I can tell u other roam such as ranger and mirage and these days holo do a better job at roaming and are far better duelers aswell,as I play them often aswell. Ranger,mirage make better +1 and decaps,can hold a cap etc thief fails in zergs and don’t say the DD jumping around like a monkey in the middle of Zerg is viable, a true testament to how poor thief is doing is people resort to perma stealth DE to get kills these days and as long as non thief players keep whining there’s gonna be more DE players useing more cheese tactics and the cycle will continue until just no one plays thief at all and that’s healthy for the game lol

    you are doing it again. thief is : core, daredevil and deadeye. if deadeye does perform well in roaming, so does thief. i mean you also talk about mirage and not core mesmer , do you have an issue with the performance of core ranger? core engi?

    read this, become a better player now.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    1. Not using PvP build system. As long as people can min-max parts and use Ascended, ANet will never be able to balance the mode. I have said for a long time that WvW needs the PvP build system, with the differences of allowing ALL stat combos, runes, and sigils, and that your infusion slots should still give that bonus (so there is a reason in WvW to work toward the Ascended stuff you can get there, and not invalidate all the people that already did it).

    Another advantage to the PvP build system to WvW would be lowering the entry bars to new players, as short of Ascended infusions, they would be on the same level as everyone else. Then it's skill, not just being short statted on builds for newer players.

    Amulet system would imo completely kill WvW, me and basically everyone I know would instantly quit the game if this happened.

    It would fix none of the issues you mention, the highest damage builds already only use 1 statcombo (Berserker) (sometimes with 2-4 pieces of marauder but not necessarily) which you can use with the amulet system. Burst would be even more dominant than it is now.

    Getting ascended armor is already fairly easy, with trinkets being the only annoying parts to get as a new player.> @Shining One.1635 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Sure! Start with ranger, work your way to other classes as well

    Why start with one? Nerf them all at once.
    I think there needs to be more sacrifice in build choices. You shouldn't be able to have high survivability, high mobility, and high damage all in one build.

    But, but, but I thought thief/ranger/mirage in zerker was glass cannon /sarcasm

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    With regards to thief, was a good class with strong burst,great mobility compensating for its low hp/sustain, cuz its architecture and mechanics to deal damage was annoying to other players that didn’t play thief and didn’t want to take time to learn how to exploit its many weaknesses arenanet tried to appease the community by nurfing its burst, than the complaint was it could reset so mobility was handed out like candy to other professions so now thief hits with mediocre damage,not that far ahead in mobility and has lowest hp/sustain which makes them still good? WhAt? Lol and DE made all this even worse. As long as thief does what it’s soposed to do as a thief it’s playstyles will annoy non thief players,they will cry and it will get further useless over time

    It's still top-tier for smallscale roaming, if it isn't for you then that's a l2p issue. Thief has very few weaknesses, if you play thief in WvW you can basically only die to other thieves, mesmers and rangers. On basically any other class even if you predict the thief basically perfectly the best you can hope for is a draw as no thief ever engages you w/o having at least 2 900+ range teleports ready to disengage. Thief's damage is still top tier, Vault, DJ and Backstab all hit in the 10-30k range depending on the target. Their mobility is still top tier (permanent swiftness, shortbow/rifle, shadowstep, steal etc). Their stealth access is still some of the best in the game.

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    To get those 10k LB AA, Ranger does need "some skill" to play. You are running a full Zerker Ranger that is glass and will die if the wind blows on it. Not to mention you also have to time everything right to get all the bonuses needed to do that all while hoping your opponent doesn't see you first and dodge, reflect, retal, invuln, evade, or stealth. What you are talking about mostly is luck. Most Rangers get lucky to hit somebody with that much damage. So either that Ranger had some really good luck or you had some really bad luck at the time of that hit. In that case, feelsbadman. Ranger has been the redheaded stepchild of WvW for the longest time. I'm glad that it has a small place now in WvW. Would like to see it's role increase more though to be honest.

    Your defense is that you have 1.5k-2.5k range (depending on terrain). Your defense is that you have greater mobility than 2/3rd of the classes in WvW.

    Reflect is easily countered by call of the wild which is part of the burst combo, or unstoppable lion.

    Retal does at most like 400/hit, that's nothing by comparison to what the ranger is dishing out (full rapid fire then hits you for 4k while your target is dead)

    Sic' em counters stealth.

    Dodge and Invuln applies as counters to all classes, if people use them against your burst as ranger just reset and try again.

    1-shot builds/similar are terrible for WvW. They create no interesting encounters, most of the time you either

    +1 and instantly end the fight (ruining their fight w/o any meaningful interaction from either side)

    Hit someone who is semi-afk and kill them before they can react (no meaningful interaction from either side). This also has the added benefit of making roaming way more annoying because if you lose focus for a split second while running around looking for fights (something already annoying) you might just die out of nowhere, great mechanic.

    Fail and reset the fight, somehow the most interesting scenario, yet still incredibly dull for everyone involved as they either play Mesmer/Thief/Ranger and can chase you down and kill you (cause you used CDs, so basically not a real fight) or they don't and therefore can literally do nothing about the scenario.

    Top tier? Not for me because I think it’s underperforming? Tell that to all the top thief players that are vocal on the forums and on their channels about the bad state of core/DD but gues u must simply be the best lol

    People want their main buffed and like saying that the class they play is weaker than it is to appear better, what else's new?

    Go do some actual roaming in WvW and you will see the sheer quantity of thieves, certainly that must be in spite of thief being so "weak". But by all means do tell me what you're comparing thief to when you call it weak.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    1. Not using PvP build system. As long as people can min-max parts and use Ascended, ANet will never be able to balance the mode. I have said for a long time that WvW needs the PvP build system, with the differences of allowing ALL stat combos, runes, and sigils, and that your infusion slots should still give that bonus (so there is a reason in WvW to work toward the Ascended stuff you can get there, and not invalidate all the people that already did it).

    Another advantage to the PvP build system to WvW would be lowering the entry bars to new players, as short of Ascended infusions, they would be on the same level as everyone else. Then it's skill, not just being short statted on builds for newer players.

    Amulet system would imo completely kill WvW, me and basically everyone I know would instantly quit the game if this happened.

    It would fix none of the issues you mention, the highest damage builds already only use 1 statcombo (Berserker) (sometimes with 2-4 pieces of marauder but not necessarily) which you can use with the amulet system. Burst would be even more dominant than it is now.

    Getting ascended armor is already fairly easy, with trinkets being the only annoying parts to get as a new player.> @Shining One.1635 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Sure! Start with ranger, work your way to other classes as well

    Why start with one? Nerf them all at once.
    I think there needs to be more sacrifice in build choices. You shouldn't be able to have high survivability, high mobility, and high damage all in one build.

    But, but, but I thought thief/ranger/mirage in zerker was glass cannon /sarcasm

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    With regards to thief, was a good class with strong burst,great mobility compensating for its low hp/sustain, cuz its architecture and mechanics to deal damage was annoying to other players that didn’t play thief and didn’t want to take time to learn how to exploit its many weaknesses arenanet tried to appease the community by nurfing its burst, than the complaint was it could reset so mobility was handed out like candy to other professions so now thief hits with mediocre damage,not that far ahead in mobility and has lowest hp/sustain which makes them still good? WhAt? Lol and DE made all this even worse. As long as thief does what it’s soposed to do as a thief it’s playstyles will annoy non thief players,they will cry and it will get further useless over time

    It's still top-tier for smallscale roaming, if it isn't for you then that's a l2p issue. Thief has very few weaknesses, if you play thief in WvW you can basically only die to other thieves, mesmers and rangers. On basically any other class even if you predict the thief basically perfectly the best you can hope for is a draw as no thief ever engages you w/o having at least 2 900+ range teleports ready to disengage. Thief's damage is still top tier, Vault, DJ and Backstab all hit in the 10-30k range depending on the target. Their mobility is still top tier (permanent swiftness, shortbow/rifle, shadowstep, steal etc). Their stealth access is still some of the best in the game.

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    To get those 10k LB AA, Ranger does need "some skill" to play. You are running a full Zerker Ranger that is glass and will die if the wind blows on it. Not to mention you also have to time everything right to get all the bonuses needed to do that all while hoping your opponent doesn't see you first and dodge, reflect, retal, invuln, evade, or stealth. What you are talking about mostly is luck. Most Rangers get lucky to hit somebody with that much damage. So either that Ranger had some really good luck or you had some really bad luck at the time of that hit. In that case, feelsbadman. Ranger has been the redheaded stepchild of WvW for the longest time. I'm glad that it has a small place now in WvW. Would like to see it's role increase more though to be honest.

    Your defense is that you have 1.5k-2.5k range (depending on terrain). Your defense is that you have greater mobility than 2/3rd of the classes in WvW.

    Reflect is easily countered by call of the wild which is part of the burst combo, or unstoppable lion.

    Retal does at most like 400/hit, that's nothing by comparison to what the ranger is dishing out (full rapid fire then hits you for 4k while your target is dead)

    Sic' em counters stealth.

    Dodge and Invuln applies as counters to all classes, if people use them against your burst as ranger just reset and try again.

    1-shot builds/similar are terrible for WvW. They create no interesting encounters, most of the time you either

    +1 and instantly end the fight (ruining their fight w/o any meaningful interaction from either side)

    Hit someone who is semi-afk and kill them before they can react (no meaningful interaction from either side). This also has the added benefit of making roaming way more annoying because if you lose focus for a split second while running around looking for fights (something already annoying) you might just die out of nowhere, great mechanic.

    Fail and reset the fight, somehow the most interesting scenario, yet still incredibly dull for everyone involved as they either play Mesmer/Thief/Ranger and can chase you down and kill you (cause you used CDs, so basically not a real fight) or they don't and therefore can literally do nothing about the scenario.

    Top tier? Not for me because I think it’s underperforming? Tell that to all the top thief players that are vocal on the forums and on their channels about the bad state of core/DD but gues u must simply be the best lol

    People want their main buffed and like saying that the class they play is weaker than it is to appear better, what else's new?

    Go do some actual roaming in WvW and you will see the sheer quantity of thieves, certainly that must be in spite of thief being so "weak". But by all means do tell me what you're comparing thief to when you call it weak.

    I roam a lot on thief and I do see that it can’t 1v1 any other roaming spec even if the players is less competent example if a ranger or holo dies to a thief while roaming they either got +1 or are bad,mirage can have a tough time if the players not good. yeah DE does use a gimmicky build permastealth to get kills so if u don’t wanna use that than u should just move on? The other specs should lose out on viability because of Deadeyes success with its gimmick build? Watch noody’s Video on thief state called make thief great again. Most thief players share those opinions for a reason. And MUd I see u posting on multiple forums stating thief is in a good spot and or needs more nurfs lol as I’m sure they play slot of thief themselves lol

  • Anyway thief core and DD are not in a good spot,and stating the class is as a whole because one spec is viable using permastealth gimmick is not a valid. Most of the high ranking thief players have left and its not because thief is in a good spot, some seemed like they maybe returning but now have ghosted them game again. Anyway I’ve already moved on to diff class for the little time I play these days lol so not really caring to much just wanted to see a once good class come back but not gonna happen. Everyone blames arenet for the games bad state and reading through the forums for all the different professions it’s definitely not all on erenanet lol,they really shouldn’t be listening to any of us lol

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    1. Not using PvP build system. As long as people can min-max parts and use Ascended, ANet will never be able to balance the mode. I have said for a long time that WvW needs the PvP build system, with the differences of allowing ALL stat combos, runes, and sigils, and that your infusion slots should still give that bonus (so there is a reason in WvW to work toward the Ascended stuff you can get there, and not invalidate all the people that already did it).

    Another advantage to the PvP build system to WvW would be lowering the entry bars to new players, as short of Ascended infusions, they would be on the same level as everyone else. Then it's skill, not just being short statted on builds for newer players.

    Amulet system would imo completely kill WvW, me and basically everyone I know would instantly quit the game if this happened.

    It would fix none of the issues you mention, the highest damage builds already only use 1 statcombo (Berserker) (sometimes with 2-4 pieces of marauder but not necessarily) which you can use with the amulet system. Burst would be even more dominant than it is now.

    Getting ascended armor is already fairly easy, with trinkets being the only annoying parts to get as a new player.> @Shining One.1635 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Sure! Start with ranger, work your way to other classes as well

    Why start with one? Nerf them all at once.
    I think there needs to be more sacrifice in build choices. You shouldn't be able to have high survivability, high mobility, and high damage all in one build.

    But, but, but I thought thief/ranger/mirage in zerker was glass cannon /sarcasm

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    With regards to thief, was a good class with strong burst,great mobility compensating for its low hp/sustain, cuz its architecture and mechanics to deal damage was annoying to other players that didn’t play thief and didn’t want to take time to learn how to exploit its many weaknesses arenanet tried to appease the community by nurfing its burst, than the complaint was it could reset so mobility was handed out like candy to other professions so now thief hits with mediocre damage,not that far ahead in mobility and has lowest hp/sustain which makes them still good? WhAt? Lol and DE made all this even worse. As long as thief does what it’s soposed to do as a thief it’s playstyles will annoy non thief players,they will cry and it will get further useless over time

    It's still top-tier for smallscale roaming, if it isn't for you then that's a l2p issue. Thief has very few weaknesses, if you play thief in WvW you can basically only die to other thieves, mesmers and rangers. On basically any other class even if you predict the thief basically perfectly the best you can hope for is a draw as no thief ever engages you w/o having at least 2 900+ range teleports ready to disengage. Thief's damage is still top tier, Vault, DJ and Backstab all hit in the 10-30k range depending on the target. Their mobility is still top tier (permanent swiftness, shortbow/rifle, shadowstep, steal etc). Their stealth access is still some of the best in the game.

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    To get those 10k LB AA, Ranger does need "some skill" to play. You are running a full Zerker Ranger that is glass and will die if the wind blows on it. Not to mention you also have to time everything right to get all the bonuses needed to do that all while hoping your opponent doesn't see you first and dodge, reflect, retal, invuln, evade, or stealth. What you are talking about mostly is luck. Most Rangers get lucky to hit somebody with that much damage. So either that Ranger had some really good luck or you had some really bad luck at the time of that hit. In that case, feelsbadman. Ranger has been the redheaded stepchild of WvW for the longest time. I'm glad that it has a small place now in WvW. Would like to see it's role increase more though to be honest.

    Your defense is that you have 1.5k-2.5k range (depending on terrain). Your defense is that you have greater mobility than 2/3rd of the classes in WvW.

    Reflect is easily countered by call of the wild which is part of the burst combo, or unstoppable lion.

    Retal does at most like 400/hit, that's nothing by comparison to what the ranger is dishing out (full rapid fire then hits you for 4k while your target is dead)

    Sic' em counters stealth.

    Dodge and Invuln applies as counters to all classes, if people use them against your burst as ranger just reset and try again.

    1-shot builds/similar are terrible for WvW. They create no interesting encounters, most of the time you either

    +1 and instantly end the fight (ruining their fight w/o any meaningful interaction from either side)

    Hit someone who is semi-afk and kill them before they can react (no meaningful interaction from either side). This also has the added benefit of making roaming way more annoying because if you lose focus for a split second while running around looking for fights (something already annoying) you might just die out of nowhere, great mechanic.

    Fail and reset the fight, somehow the most interesting scenario, yet still incredibly dull for everyone involved as they either play Mesmer/Thief/Ranger and can chase you down and kill you (cause you used CDs, so basically not a real fight) or they don't and therefore can literally do nothing about the scenario.

    Top tier? Not for me because I think it’s underperforming? Tell that to all the top thief players that are vocal on the forums and on their channels about the bad state of core/DD but gues u must simply be the best lol

    People want their main buffed and like saying that the class they play is weaker than it is to appear better, what else's new?

    Go do some actual roaming in WvW and you will see the sheer quantity of thieves, certainly that must be in spite of thief being so "weak". But by all means do tell me what you're comparing thief to when you call it weak.

    I roam a lot on thief and I do see that it can’t 1v1 any other roaming spec even if the players is less competent example if a ranger or holo dies to a thief while roaming they either got +1 or are bad,mirage can have a tough time if the players not good. yeah DE does use a gimmicky build permastealth to get kills so if u don’t wanna use that than u should just move on? The other specs should lose out on viability because of Deadeyes success with its gimmick build? Watch noody’s Video on thief state called make thief great again. Most thief players share those opinions for a reason. And MUd I see u posting on multiple forums stating thief is in a good spot and or needs more nurfs lol as I’m sure they play slot of thief themselves lol

    Holosmith is great vs bad thieves (cause almost 1shot+reveal) but overall in a pretty meh spot for roaming.

    Ranger depends on build of both players, typical pewpew lb ranger can be beaten by thief reasonably even if it isn't very favorable.

    DD (and s/d core) and DE are in fairly similar spots when it comes to power level and which one is more annoying to fight depends on what class you play. All three of them are incredibly linear builds that play very similarly (with DE having range at the cost of less (yet still top tier) mobility).

    Please don't refer to info videos, the format is so terrible for information and is way too much effort, nevermind having to somehow figure out who this person is and if he is full of kitten or not.

    Idk why you think one of the most rabid thief defenders I've seen wouldn't play the class themselves lol.

    Also could you please format your posts, this was barely readable.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • I apologize for bad format as I wrote it quick while I was watching tv with the gf and wasn’t really paying attention lol and I also apologize for mentioning MUd in the post,I went back through posts and I had mistaken him for another poster

  • I just stated noody’s video was informative and made solid points and feel he put a lot of thought into the video, did not know it was in bad taste as he seemed knowledgeable about the game

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I apologize for bad format as I wrote it quick while I was watching tv with the gf and wasn’t really paying attention lol and I also apologize for mentioning MUd in the post,I went back through posts and I had mistaken him for another poster

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I just stated noody’s video was informative and made solid points and feel he put a lot of thought into the video, did not know it was in bad taste as he seemed knowledgeable about the game

    No hard feelings about lack of format, just pointing it out cause it gets cumbersome to read walls of text.

    Bad taste might be a bit strong, but imo videos are a very poor way of giving information compared to text.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • I think the point that In arenet’s attempts to reign in DE they have also negatively impacted core and DD when it was not needed. Over the last few years thief has received numerous un warranted nurfs that seemed to be in response to the community complaints. Those complaints seem to be from a place of discontent on the thief’s playstyle not so much on specific traits being op,though some were. Theif backstab does to much damage,heart seeker does too much damage,they have too much mobility etc but is theif not soposed to use quick burst to down its opponent? If not than why is thief’s hp/sustain so low? Doesn’t it rely on mobility to avoid damage due to the fact it can’t take much damage? So if the burst and mobility gets nurfed all the while mobility,sustain and damage is buffed on other classes where does that leave thief?so for how glassy thief is thief’s burst damage is fine on core? It’s mobility is far ahead of other classes given its damage and hp? I gues I’m wrong in thinking it isn’t and I won’t waste anymore time posting regarding it. Again wrote this quick so sry for format,typo’s and hopefully it’s somewhat legible lol

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I apologize for bad format as I wrote it quick while I was watching tv with the gf and wasn’t really paying attention lol and I also apologize for mentioning MUd in the post,I went back through posts and I had mistaken him for another poster

    dont worry i generally do not ask for nerfs or buffs, only when confronted with a suggestion i might try to find a comproise between that one and what i want to be able to do. thats why i mostly comment on thief related posts instead of builds that could give me trouble in any situation.

    and dont get me wrong i do not intent to comment on core/DD performance in current game as i havent played them enough recently to do so. yet when you talk about thief, that includes my DE aswell and i feel far from weak with it. considering that i am one of those stealth heavy deadeyes that spent more time inside enemy keeps/towers than outside, i bet i did contribute my share to the recent mark changes. however they only reduced the amount of opportunities i have to ruin my opponents day, they do not prevent me from doing so. i, like you have reduced my WvW playtime recently alot but not because i feel too weak, but because i get bored, my opponents often dont even try to fight or they constantly try the very same, no improvement. you can basically feel their lack of fun, but for good pvp you also need an opponent that tries to beat you. so atm i spent more time working on my fashion wars and helping new players in PvE, but i could aswell just hop into WvW and ruin a poor souls day.

    so yeah its just a communication issue with you. you often use the term 'thief' , while exluding in your mind the DE. just be more specific and you will have a good chance that i wont comment on it :3

    read this, become a better player now.

  • @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I apologize for bad format as I wrote it quick while I was watching tv with the gf and wasn’t really paying attention lol and I also apologize for mentioning MUd in the post,I went back through posts and I had mistaken him for another poster

    dont worry i generally do not ask for nerfs or buffs, only when confronted with a suggestion i might try to find a comproise between that one and what i want to be able to do. thats why i mostly comment on thief related posts instead of builds that could give me trouble in any situation.

    and dont get me wrong i do not intent to comment on core/DD performance in current game as i havent played them enough recently to do so. yet when you talk about thief, that includes my DE aswell and i feel far from weak with it. considering that i am one of those stealth heavy deadeyes that spent more time inside enemy keeps/towers than outside, i bet i did contribute my share to the recent mark changes. however they only reduced the amount of opportunities i have to ruin my opponents day, they do not prevent me from doing so. i, like you have reduced my WvW playtime recently alot but not because i feel too weak, but because i get bored, my opponents often dont even try to fight or they constantly try the very same, no improvement. so atm i spent more time working on my fashion wars and helping new players in PvE, but i could aswell just hop into WvW and ruin a poor souls day.

    so yeah its just a communication issue with you. you often use the term 'thief' , while exluding in your mind the DE. just be more specific and you will have a good chance that i wont comment on it :3

    Lol u are 100% right, it’s not the first time i have made comments regarding thief’s current state forgeting to state in the post I’m referring to core/DD. DE is definitely strong and is effective, but because of its mechanics it’s contantly attacked and nurfs are always what’s being asked for and because those mechanics are heavily reliant on stealth,positioning and burst damage it probably won’t stop because those are anoying mechanics for opponents to fight against,even though they make sense as far as thief profession goes

  • I tried DE and it’s not as easy as I thought I’d be through reading post lol I’m used to the mobility of core s/d or dd builds. The stealth aspect allowed me to rifle burst unsuspecting opponents but the kneeling aspect locking u in place got me killed quite a few times lol. You definitely have to know how to escape on DE if ur busy fails. I stick up for thieves a lot yet I play core guard,ranger and some necro more than I do thief,though 1st year I played only thief. As far as the community is concerned where’s guard sitting? Lol

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I tried DE and it’s not as easy as I thought I’d be through reading post lol I’m used to the mobility of core s/d or dd builds. The stealth aspect allowed me to rifle burst unsuspecting opponents but the kneeling aspect locking u in place got me killed quite a few times lol. You definitely have to know how to escape on DE if ur busy fails. I stick up for thieves a lot yet I play core guard,ranger and some necro more than I do thief,though 1st year I played only thief. As far as the community is concerned where’s guard sitting? Lol

    When you start judging classes by how you play them any sort of argument on balance falls apart.

    I have seen the really bad, the mediocre, the good and the insane fight me across all classes. Thats how I judge them. If I slap around 9 out 10 thieves like babies but then meet a thief that is basicly immortal and kills everything in sight, I'm not going to judge the thief by those 9. I'm going to judge the thief by that 1, because that shows the potential of the class. How good I play the thief is irrelevant (hint: I'm one of the 9).

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I tried DE and it’s not as easy as I thought I’d be through reading post lol I’m used to the mobility of core s/d or dd builds. The stealth aspect allowed me to rifle burst unsuspecting opponents but the kneeling aspect locking u in place got me killed quite a few times lol. You definitely have to know how to escape on DE if ur busy fails. I stick up for thieves a lot yet I play core guard,ranger and some necro more than I do thief,though 1st year I played only thief. As far as the community is concerned where’s guard sitting? Lol

    When you start judging classes by how you play them any sort of argument on balance falls apart.

    I have seen the really bad, the mediocre, the good and the insane fight me across all classes. Thats how I judge them. If I slap around 9 out 10 thieves like babies but then meet a thief that is basicly immortal and kills everything in sight, I'm not going to judge the thief by those 9. I'm going to judge the thief by that 1, because that shows the potential of the class. How good I play the thief is irrelevant (hint: I'm one of the 9).

    True but the problem with judging a class on its potential and not how well a average player can perform on it is that some players can out play others while using a blatantly weaker class due to skill and knowledge of the game. I’m sure there’s a point where a class is so weak that even askilled player can’t carry it. On the other hand if a class is only known to be effective in very skilled hands comparative to how effective other classes are in only average players,are thief on par? If ranger was known to only be effective with players of high skill and or 9 outa 10 people were not skilled enough to be effective but that one player being very highly skilled and knowledgeable was able to be effective with the ranger would you say it’s balanced in line with the rest of the classes. I wouldnt

  • I’ve been playing 3 yrs now and as of late I see very few thieves win duels out right, usually +1,picking off players low on hp and or stealth range bursting them lol if I clas has to burst opponents that are already in a fight and or range burst are they really effective? Or is the player knowing the thief is at a disadvantage unless it uses a tactic as such? Although maybe I’m just not a good enough theif to 1v1 a ranger,holo,guard,rev,warrior etc,though new mirage players and necros seem like decent match ups. Also why are their so many complaints about thieves resetting? Isn’t that because if they don’t their dead? Is there so many resets warranting these complaints because all thief’s are bad at fighting anything that’s not half dead?maybe the reason their considered a +1 decap in pvp not because they have to use strategy like attacking players already dueling or that are already almost in down state but because all players are just bad a thieves like me lol. Definitely could be the case

  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    My recent experience roaming on thief has been having enemies use target painters on me (happened more than once the same night) when they already outnumbered me 3 to 1.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I’ve been playing 3 yrs now and as of late I see very few thieves win duels out right, usually +1,picking off players low on hp and or stealth range bursting them lol if I clas has to burst opponents that are already in a fight and or range burst are they really effective? Or is the player knowing the thief is at a disadvantage unless it uses a tactic as such? Although maybe I’m just not a good enough theif to 1v1 a ranger,holo,guard,rev,warrior etc,though new mirage players and necros seem like decent match ups. Also why are their so many complaints about thieves resetting? Isn’t that because if they don’t their dead? Is there so many resets warranting these complaints because all thief’s are bad at fighting anything that’s not half dead?maybe the reason their considered a +1 decap in pvp not because they have to use strategy like attacking players already dueling or that are already almost in down state but because all players are just bad a thieves like me lol. Definitely could be the case

    So thief isnt the best 1v1 for the average player... whats that kind of a benchmark you arbitrarily set? Is it supposed to be? Is there some sort of unknown golden rule that says "thief has to be best at everything"?

    Its real simple: This is an RPG and as such the classes have different pros and cons. They are not created equal, this isnt an FPS. A good thief can most definetly still roflstomp ANY class 1v1 but it doesnt mean they automatically do it just by being handed a thief. They are great for +1 yes. That's one of the definite pros. Stealth can be annoying as all kitten but in terms of manpower value... they're really not better or worse than anyone else. I'd rather have a good non-stealth 1v1 master-race warrior next to me than a bad thief stealthing all over the place doing nothing or instantly killing himself on reflect. But I would also rather have a good thief that knows how to +1 than a bad warrior that stands clueless in fire.

    The same thing apply to all classes, they have their uses. 1v1 performance only from your perspective isnt the benchmark to set. If it was, we'd have tons of people coming to complain on the forum about classes being weak when they are blatantly not weak. Wait a second...

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:

    @losingcontrol.1084 said:
    If you get hit by a 10k ranger auto you play with under 2k armor.

    What profession are you playing? Necro?

    Even with full trailblazer on a necro you can get above 8k hits from a SB (or many other classes)

    I'm saying this with 5 years of experience as a full zerk Ranger; You do not hit 10k Long Range Shots, or even 8k, without using a dedicated build. Meaning taking all traits/utilities/food, etc. that modify your damage. Which also means you're going to have very little defenses, if any. Stone Signet passive and a couple evades are pretty much it. It's effective at killing the unprepared but after 3 seconds of damage immunity below 50% health it's a free kill. It's true if they catch you in an open field closing the gap is easier said than done, but welcome to WvW. If you're not constantly looking behind you or if you're not willing to abuse terrain for cover you're not gonna have a good time.

    This isn't to say that I don't agree with damage being too high. I'm just trying to inject some knowledge in to this blame game because I'm tired of people citing 10k Long Range Shots like it's something you get for free just by slotting Soulbeast with a Longbow.

    5years of experience doesn't mean you're good at the game. But I can't judge this. Just a general statement.

    10k long-range shots is a serious problem.
    "I have to go full zerker and have all dmg boost abilities equipped"
    Is no excuse for 10k op shots.
    If you still die from 1500 range, you are just bad. Ranger has a lot of mobility, even on these "oneshot" builds.
    Just play sword or greatsword in other weapon set.
    But 10k autoattacks, even if it's 5k is just too much.
    There's no class that has such a long-range teleport, to pressure you hard enough. As soon as the enemy gets into 1200 range you can run away, if the enemy isn't dead till then because of op-unblockable autos. Not to mention rapid fire.

    Also ranger can have high boonuptime and insane sustain. As well as high mobility and blocks or invulns.

    I played together with a friend of mine, and we went to troll enemy zergs by oneshotting their commanders.

    Same goes for 4 other specs right now. Coreguard is still op as hell, as well as thief (deadeye and daredevil) and mirage.

    Mirage having access to 3 times high burst. So even if you dodge the first greatsword spike, he uses his first shatter, then the second one if you managed to evade the first one.

    Deadeye onehitting people for over 17k out of stealth -> no counterplay available

    Guard having insane burst as well as high sustain (blocks) with high mobility. Being able to burst hell a lot.

    And daredevil playing permaevade/ teleport with still pretty high dmg.
    I played it yesterday. Just made a pretty kitten build with sword/pistol + shortbow. Valkyrie+zerker mix.
    And I managed to kill the first three people I met while roaming (holo, ele, warrior). While having only 15hours if playtime on my thief.
    So am I just very good at the game and at thief or did I get carried by an op spec?

    To make it clear, yes I'm necro main. And I nearly only play necro and nothing else.
    But why do things like chilling move get nerfed hard, while super op things are still in the game?
    Take reaper as example: sure it has high damage, but it's slow as f... And doesn't have any sustain or blocks/invulns. If you get killed by a reaper, you know you missplayed or you are just bad at the game.

    You mentioned necro being a Teamfighter. So if necro + firebrand run around and the enemy team is... Let's say ranger and thief. What do you thing, which team wins the fight?

    Most likely not necro+ firebrand.

    Wvw needs a huge dmg and heal nerf. So it gets more to the point, where skill matters.
    Right now it's oneshot, or getting oneshot.

    Even zergs work that way. Pretty annoying to play especially when you are on an underpopulated server, that got it's link taken away. While even with the link not having enough people to compete with other servers.

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭

    The fun fact about that necro mention is:

    • when Necro plays with full berserker or even mixed in valkyrie/marauder the damage is way below that from thief, guardian, ranger, etc.
    • you are way more squishy by having no access to invul, mobility or stealth
    • you are a glass cannon, above mentioned roaming classes aren't

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • oOStaticOo.9467oOStaticOo.9467 Member ✭✭✭

    When I see a Necro I down it first because I know it's the biggest threat. And you can thank the big zergs for that. After witnessing all the red carpets of death that Necros put down that just melts everything in its path, I just naturally try to seek those out first and eliminate them to try to keep that red carpet of death down to a minimum. I have yet to encounter a solo necro trying to roam. Every time I encounter them it's in groups with FB and Spellbreaker thrown in to make sure this small group of 5-10 can capture the camp and then go take the tower next to it.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    When I see a Necro I down it first because I know it's the biggest threat. And you can thank the big zergs for that. After witnessing all the red carpets of death that Necros put down that just melts everything in its path, I just naturally try to seek those out first and eliminate them to try to keep that red carpet of death down to a minimum. I have yet to encounter a solo necro trying to roam. Every time I encounter them it's in groups with FB and Spellbreaker thrown in to make sure this small group of 5-10 can capture the camp and then go take the tower next to it.

    Nah. Roaming scourges are a joke. And if they exist in small groups, theyre not really much of a threat, either. Reaper are far more dangerous. And those Red circles of aoe are a scourge thing. Reaper roamer has none of those. You target the scourge cause its the weakest among all others in the group (good luck pinning down a spellbreaker, a soulbeast, a holo, a firebrand, a core guard, a core warr or a thief). Everyone tries to focus the weakest of all, to down it, and make ppl try to hardres and bomb. Any class built for high damage is a threat if you leave it alone, as someone before me has said. Scourge just has NO passive invulns, like holo or warr or ranger, so its the easiest to kill.

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    Historically, the only time necro has done really well in roaming has been during condi metas. Every major necro complaint being raised right now has always been true. They've never had great mobility, they've never had invulns or stealth, they've always had a distinct weakness to 900+ ranged pressure. The difference is that in a condi meta necros can just run full trailblazer and run around with like 30-60k effective hp with shroud and 3.5k armor and 2k condi damage and have a lot of relatively long duration semi spammable mid range soft ccs like weakness, chill and cripple to make it much harder to engage the necro in melee or kite it at range.

    So this is what happened: epidemic got gutted, the meta condi scourge build got nerfed with dhuumfire nerf and cd increases on the f skills and visual tells placed on the shades and the reaper chill/bleed shout spam build got nerfed when the chilling whatever trait got nerfed. So now roaming necros have to try to play power builds in a mostly power meta (with the exception of mirage) and all the major weaknesses of necro are on full display in every fight and they feel like this is something new to complain about because it's been a while since having meh mobility and being vulnerable to range pressure was this much of a problem. But that aspect of necro has never really changed. The distinct weaknesses of the necro class have never really changed. It's just that the op condi stuff got nerfed, they've added more ways to cleanse into the game and so the meta has changed back to power and power meta just isn't great for roaming necros.

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    The fun fact about that necro mention is:

    • when Necro plays with full berserker or even mixed in valkyrie/marauder the damage is way below that from thief, guardian, ranger, etc.
    • you are way more squishy by having no access to invul, mobility or stealth
    • you are a glass cannon, above mentioned roaming classes aren't

    And the fun fact is that people keep forgetting that the necro has 2-3x the eqvivalent hitpoints of other glass cannons and can pretty much instakill them in return. It may not be the best 1v1 but it's so dangerous in smallscale it's literally the first target - we dont pick on them for their lesser mobility, we pick on them because if you down something else and you're gonna get roflstomped by the necro trying to actually kill them.

    And it still utterly dominates AoE zerging far, far more than any thief, guardian or ranger dominate roaming.

    Sorry, I really had to clean my keyboard after this.
    2x3 times the equivalent of hp? We talk about glass builds, right?
    You get around 18k on a build like that + 22k. On my thief with a similar glass build I'm at 16k. In summary that may be 2 times the hp, but on a necro your shroud gets used up without taking damage and you have to build it before you can use it. it's even worse on a Scourge because you get a low hp shield thanks to the crying on forums. An 8k shield isn't worth mentioning. I'd take Signet of Stone over that any time, or shadow step, or mirage cloak.
    You pick Scourges and Necros first in small scale, because they have no defense besides shroud and they get no healing in shroud.

    Scourges work in zergs because of the sheer number of targets and their inability to dodge properly and stick to their Firebrands for survival. You need some because everyone spams boons like never before.
    Why would you bring a reaper or core necro? I don't know. They are pretty bad at everything. Try playing one in small scale or even roaming and have a nice day.

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Try playing one in small scale or even roaming and have a nice day.

    Which incidently would bring me back to the main point. Thats no way to judge the potential of a class. I do it by the foes I meet because that gives a whole lot more perspective. And usually playing power mirage I set a pretty high bar on the necro. But guess what? Even though I can dance around most of them and loose no hp, I have still been roflstomped by power reapers and outsustained by condi scourges.

    Its not my fault most necros are running as mediocre meta zerglings and I'm not going to take pity on them when I've seen what the class can do at the helm of good players in WvW scenarios.

  • oOStaticOo.9467oOStaticOo.9467 Member ✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    When I see a Necro I down it first because I know it's the biggest threat. And you can thank the big zergs for that. After witnessing all the red carpets of death that Necros put down that just melts everything in its path, I just naturally try to seek those out first and eliminate them to try to keep that red carpet of death down to a minimum. I have yet to encounter a solo necro trying to roam. Every time I encounter them it's in groups with FB and Spellbreaker thrown in to make sure this small group of 5-10 can capture the camp and then go take the tower next to it.

    Nah. Roaming scourges are a joke. And if they exist in small groups, theyre not really much of a threat, either. Reaper are far more dangerous. And those Red circles of aoe are a scourge thing. Reaper roamer has none of those. You target the scourge cause its the weakest among all others in the group (good luck pinning down a spellbreaker, a soulbeast, a holo, a firebrand, a core guard, a core warr or a thief). Everyone tries to focus the weakest of all, to down it, and make ppl try to hardres and bomb. Any class built for high damage is a threat if you leave it alone, as someone before me has said. Scourge just has NO passive invulns, like holo or warr or ranger, so its the easiest to kill.

    Uh no. You do not play for me. If I tell you I target it because I think it's the highest threat then that is why I target it. I don't target it because I think it's weak. I take out any Necro I see because I have fallen prey to them way too many times to ignore them and think they are not a threat. So please stop trying to tell me how I play.

  • @Nimon.7840 said:

    I said nothing about 10k auto attacks being okay. I said you need to fully invest in damage and modifiers to reach those numbers which makes the build that can achieve it a gimmick. It forego's most of it's defenses in favor of offense. It's not going to win any serious fights, it's just there to meme and +1 people. And to me, that's where most of complaints sound like they're coming from, people who were +1'd, ganked or 100 - 0'd from a wall they got too close to. Because if anyone actually has trouble killing glass Soulbeast on anything other than Necro, I've got news for you... It might be a problem on your end. Faceroll does not equal OP. The ease of use allows it to carry average players but most good players will steer away from using it because they know there are much stronger options. That's why 99% of the Soulbeasts you meet are playing the same Marksmanship double Stone Signet full Berserker build. Because it's the only thing they have success with.

    WvW is literally all I do in this game. I float around by myself a lot as well and I can remember exactly two times since the release of PoF that I've been one shot by a Ranger. One was from a Remorseless build with Winter's Bite (which I have a screenshot of) and the other was from a Worldly Impact. Never been hit for a 10k Long Range Shot. Probably because like I said... It's a gimmick build so very few people are going to use it.

    Damage is too high across the board. It isn't an issue strictly related to Soulbeast. It's just the biggest offender because it's the easiest to use. It's a build for bads that kills bads. And yes I'm including myself in that category if it makes you feel better. You don't have to be eSports to understand that easy attracts stupid, OP attracts good.

    Reduce "Sic 'Em!" to +20%, or even +10% damage for the Soulbeast instead of the current +40%. It will solve a lot of issues with Soulbeasts damage.

    [HUNT] | Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer, Revenant | Kaineng | Diamond Legend
    Times change and people change with'm, some people love to play the victim ... ♫

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Try playing one in small scale or even roaming and have a nice day.

    Which incidently would bring me back to the main point. Thats no way to judge the potential of a class. I do it by the foes I meet because that gives a whole lot more perspective. And usually playing power mirage I set a pretty high bar on the necro. But guess what? Even though I can dance around most of them and loose no hp, I have still been roflstomped by power reapers and outsustained by condi scourges.

    Its not my fault most necros are running as mediocre meta zerglings and I'm not going to take pity on them when I've seen what the class can do at the helm of good players in WvW scenarios.

    Your experience isn't an indicator for the state of a class. Neither is mine. But in a normal 1v1 situation with equally skilled opponents you can't beat any mirage on a reaper. If that happens the mirage made really bad mistakes like facetanking reaper shroud and the reaper hasn't made a single error. In any case it doesn't say much about the balancing of the game. That's what the numbers are for.
    In PvP necro always works, when it has a strong pocket healer and it doesn't get focused. Which means you only are useful in team fights. What works in pvp doesn't work in WvW small scale, because the stats are way higher and most other classes scale way better with the higher stats.

    As said before. When I fight a zerker/valkyrie thief on a zerker/valkyrie necro, I end up dead in most of the cases. Same goes for meeting a soul beast, a warrior, a mesmer or any other power build. On a reaper you need to be in medium or close range to deal damage. If you can't pressure your opponent and build shroud you already lost that fight. If you waste your reaper shroud once you most likely don't get a second chance, because you can't build it that easily.
    If I play similar on my soul beast, I just reset the fight by either using stealth, stunning or rooting, using my owl and greatsword to fly to the moon and come back in no time. I don't even need to outrun them, because my range is always higher and I have a root while one lucky crit ends the reapers existence and my buffs keep me alive.
    Same goes for core necro (power and condi) with the difference that you can play a bit more ranged, but you still need to facetank most of the power classes and your only effective defenses are shroud, a fear and protection. I wish I could at least corrupt boons .. I mean that class was designed for that. But corrupt boon is laughable in the actual meta. I can't even pressure a soul beast when I put both corruptions on him.

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • @gebrechen.5643 said:
    In PvP necro always works, when it has a strong pocket healer and it doesn't get focused. Which means you only are useful in team fights. What works in pvp doesn't work in WvW small scale, because the stats are way higher and most other classes scale way better with the higher stats.

    Wouldn't that more suggest to you that sPvP in its instanced form is not played as solo as some might assume when queueing into it? It can feel solo to play when you are new to it or when your team is new and heavily outmatched but the balance or gameplay of it never is.

    Get that same pocket healer as a duo in WvW and you can suddenly roam (while covering 98% of the scales available in the mode ;) ). If your support is a group-stealther with some tackling ability (like a Mesmer or Engineer) it synergizes even better.

    There have been plenty of good roaming groups in the 3-10 scale using Necros.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    In PvP necro always works, when it has a strong pocket healer and it doesn't get focused. Which means you only are useful in team fights. What works in pvp doesn't work in WvW small scale, because the stats are way higher and most other classes scale way better with the higher stats.

    Wouldn't that more suggest to you that sPvP in its instanced form is not played as solo as some might assume when queueing into it? It can feel solo to play when you are new to it or when your team is new and heavily outmatched but the balance or gameplay of it never is.

    sPvP is most definitively not solo like you say even if matchmaking often makes it seem that way

    Get that same pocket healer as a duo in WvW and you can suddenly roam (while covering 98% of the scales available in the mode ;) ). If your support is a group-stealther with some tackling ability (like a Mesmer or Engineer) it synergizes even better.

    By support you really mean firebrand

    Support mesmer is dead
    Engineer isn't a powerful support (outside of zergs)
    Tempest is a meme

    FB+Necro isn't a terrible roaming duo but it is far from top tier and it really is the firebrand doing the heavy lifting. You basically have the exact same problems solo necro has (there are plenty of people you can't realistically kill cause you're so slow). Only that it takes 2+ of the linear classes to kill you instead of 1 which makes it at least kinda bearable.

    There have been plenty of good roaming groups in the 3-10 scale using Necros.

    3 and 10 aren't really comparable

    3-4 can still be called roaming if only barely, scourge works there if you have a pet firebrand and just avoid all open fields

    10 is a zerg (sans the utter condi immunity of bigger zergs) and we all know scourge is good in those

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    I am very disappointed in Anet. The amount of power creeps with bad designs is disgusting and unforgivable. I strongly advice Anet to restructure the balance team. Yes i am talking about firing and replacing their whole team. 6 years+ of repeated unlearned lessons to turn this game into a fun, healthy competitive environment requires a new team.

    Time of 6 years+ fail ideas with poor visions must cease Now!!

    Enough! is Enough!

    (I suggest to shutdown wvw+pvp entirely)

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    I said nothing about 10k auto attacks being okay. I said you need to fully invest in damage and modifiers to reach those numbers which makes the build that can achieve it a gimmick. It forego's most of it's defenses in favor of offense. It's not going to win any serious fights, it's just there to meme and +1 people. And to me, that's where most of complaints sound like they're coming from, people who were +1'd, ganked or 100 - 0'd from a wall they got too close to. Because if anyone actually has trouble killing glass Soulbeast on anything other than Necro, I've got news for you... It might be a problem on your end. Faceroll does not equal OP. The ease of use allows it to carry average players but most good players will steer away from using it because they know there are much stronger options. That's why 99% of the Soulbeasts you meet are playing the same Marksmanship double Stone Signet full Berserker build. Because it's the only thing they have success with.

    WvW is literally all I do in this game. I float around by myself a lot as well and I can remember exactly two times since the release of PoF that I've been one shot by a Ranger. One was from a Remorseless build with Winter's Bite (which I have a screenshot of) and the other was from a Worldly Impact. Never been hit for a 10k Long Range Shot. Probably because like I said... It's a gimmick build so very few people are going to use it.

    Damage is too high across the board. It isn't an issue strictly related to Soulbeast. It's just the biggest offender because it's the easiest to use. It's a build for bads that kills bads. And yes I'm including myself in that category if it makes you feel better. You don't have to be eSports to understand that easy attracts stupid, OP attracts good.

    Reduce "Sic 'Em!" to +20%, or even +10% damage for the Soulbeast instead of the current +40%. It will solve a lot of issues with Soulbeasts damage.

    Maybe 40% of the soulbeasts I met last month played oneshot. Or some kind of variation with high damage.
    Then there was like some druids, some normal soulbeasts and some Condi players.

    And they almost always hide in some kind of keep or tower or inside buffed supply camps. So you can't just run towards them and kill them (well they will just run away anyways, because I'm playing sitting duck- necro)

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    (I suggest to shutdown wvw+pvp entirely)

    LOL. Sounds like someone needs a break.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    In any case it doesn't say much about the balancing of the game. That's what the numbers are for.

    And what does the numbers say? That there is 5x as many necros as there are thieves on a map, therefor necros are weak? Pros and cons in an RPG class system that gives certain classes advantages in certain situations. Thats how the game is played. Or are thieves also allowed to argue that they should be buffed in 1v1 because they are so much weaker in zerging than necro?

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:

    There have been plenty of good roaming groups in the 3-10 scale using Necros.

    I just wouldn't call groups of 3 or bigger roaming, because you mostly run over single players or farm people trying to run to their zerg

    And as lodjur.1284 already stated. If you roam on Necro+FB you are still on a heavy disadvantage. Most other class combinations are way more powerful and even way more fun. We had one of those small guild groups running on alts not long ago with Spellbreaker, Firebrand (Support) and Druid (DPS/Condi) or SB (Condi) and Dragonhunter (Power) and it's more effective, more fun and especially more mobile. You don't want to cripple your group by bringing a necro of any kind below 10 man (yes, Scourge will work in a 5+ grp, but as said before that's no roaming to me.

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    In any case it doesn't say much about the balancing of the game. That's what the numbers are for.

    And what does the numbers say? That there is 5x as many necros as there are thieves on a map, therefor necros are weak? Pros and cons in an RPG class system that gives certain classes advantages in certain situations. Thats how the game is played. Or are thieves also allowed to argue that they should be buffed in 1v1 because they are so much weaker in zerging than necro?

    Do not compare necro to thief. Necro is a far better 1v1 and Zerg class than thief will ever be. Necro can duel and be one of two main contributors to zergs,the other being fb, they just don’t make good Roamer due to mobility issues

  • Thief’s arenet widely known as a +1 due to good dueling capabilities

  • @gebrechen.5643 said:

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:

    There have been plenty of good roaming groups in the 3-10 scale using Necros.

    I just wouldn't call groups of 3 or bigger roaming, because you mostly run over single players or farm people trying to run to their zerg /.../ yes, Scourge will work in a 5+ grp, but as said before that's no roaming to me.

    Well that is just your interpretation and your behaviour. We can't have a sensible discussion of classes, design or balance around that.

    It's the same thing Dawdler mentioned earlier in this thread. That's one of the major problems with a dwindling dedicated playerbase slowly being replaced by tourists. Things turn subjective. These forums have never been highly populated with higher order players but there have always been plenty of players who play to provide objective examples of things people speak against here. That isn't as much the case anymore.

  • oOStaticOo.9467oOStaticOo.9467 Member ✭✭✭

    A "Blob" is 15 to 20 people. A "Zerg" is 20+. A group can range from 2-10 people. You can roam with a small group of people, usually that is around 5 people. It's not enough to steamroll over everything, but it is enough to capture a Tower while everybody else is occupied fighting off an attack from a blob or zerg. I've seen many group of 5 roamers running around capturing sentries, camps, and then attempting towers occasionally as well. Roaming is not always just solo. If you roam solo odds are you are going to get caught and killed. It's better to travel in numbers than alone.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    A "Blob" is 15 to 20 people. A "Zerg" is 20+. A group can range from 2-10 people. You can roam with a small group of people, usually that is around 5 people. It's not enough to steamroll over everything, but it is enough to capture a Tower while everybody else is occupied fighting off an attack from a blob or zerg. I've seen many group of 5 roamers running around capturing sentries, camps, and then attempting towers occasionally as well. Roaming is not always just solo. If you roam solo odds are you are going to get caught and killed. It's better to travel in numbers than alone.

    A blob is 40+. A zerg is from 10+ (small zerg) to 40 (big zerg).

  • oOStaticOo.9467oOStaticOo.9467 Member ✭✭✭

    Maybe a difference from NA and EU? I always see posted small blob, or large zerg.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    @Israel.7056 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    (I suggest to shutdown wvw+pvp entirely)

    LOL. Sounds like someone needs a break.

    Funny thing is, i've been taking more breaks than ever in all Gw2 6 years combine. I won't stop until Anet completely strip down thief and mesmer. I do give Anet credit for the last patch in dealing with them but the root of the problems-their design+mechanic has not changed at all,

    Until their core design mechanics are completely design: i'll be the one laughing while playing competitive healthy games by game companies who would never tolerate toxic designs to run rampant in their game especially in 6 years straight.

    So yeah! going to spend more time in Pve and with more breaks lol

    You Get What You Tolerate

  • @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Israel.7056 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    (I suggest to shutdown wvw+pvp entirely)

    LOL. Sounds like someone needs a break.

    Funny thing is, i've been taking more breaks than ever in all Gw2 6 years combine. I won't stop until Anet completely strip down thief and mesmer. I do give Anet credit for the last patch in dealing with them but the root of the problems-their design+mechanic has not changed at all,

    Until their core design mechanics are completely design: i'll be the one laughing while playing competitive healthy games by game companies who would never tolerate toxic designs to run rampant in their game especially in 6 years straight.

    So yeah! going to spend more time in Pve and with more breaks lol

    You Get What You Tolerate

    Good,hopefully u leave for good,games better off without immature cry babies that think it’s funny to try and destroy classes that people enjoy all because u cant take a beating, life must be fun for u!

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    A "Blob" is 15 to 20 people. A "Zerg" is 20+. A group can range from 2-10 people. You can roam with a small group of people, usually that is around 5 people. It's not enough to steamroll over everything, but it is enough to capture a Tower while everybody else is occupied fighting off an attack from a blob or zerg. I've seen many group of 5 roamers running around capturing sentries, camps, and then attempting towers occasionally as well. Roaming is not always just solo. If you roam solo odds are you are going to get caught and killed. It's better to travel in numbers than alone.

    I mean it's all opinions really as there are no hard definitions but

    5 people really really is pushing it if you still can it roaming

    10 is most definitively already a zerg but a small one

    20+ is a blob

    Most "decent" roamers can easily take towers while being just 2 people (if they don't find sieging too boring and there isn't too many defenders obvs) and the only reason they can't solo is that sieging without someone to talk to would drive you nuts therefore it's impossible to do solo.

    However roamers are only interested in fights so taking stuff while "to capture a Tower while everybody else is occupied" generally isn't something their interested in, the only reason I ever take objectives is with the hope that enemy players will show up.

    Also if you solo roam on a thief, mirage or soulbeast you will very rarely die actually (if you're at all cautious and care about not dying for some weird reason).

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • SloRules.3560SloRules.3560 Member ✭✭✭

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    A "Blob" is 15 to 20 people. A "Zerg" is 20+. A group can range from 2-10 people. You can roam with a small group of people, usually that is around 5 people. It's not enough to steamroll over everything, but it is enough to capture a Tower while everybody else is occupied fighting off an attack from a blob or zerg. I've seen many group of 5 roamers running around capturing sentries, camps, and then attempting towers occasionally as well. Roaming is not always just solo. If you roam solo odds are you are going to get caught and killed. It's better to travel in numbers than alone.

    I mean it's all opinions really as there are no hard definitions but

    5 people really really is pushing it if you still can it roaming

    10 is most definitively already a zerg but a small one

    20+ is a blob

    Most "decent" roamers can easily take towers while being just 2 people (if they don't find sieging too boring and there isn't too many defenders obvs) and the only reason they can't solo is that sieging without someone to talk to would drive you nuts therefore it's impossible to do solo.

    However roamers are only interested in fights so taking stuff while "to capture a Tower while everybody else is occupied" generally isn't something their interested in, the only reason I ever take objectives is with the hope that enemy players will show up.

    Also if you solo roam on a thief, mirage or soulbeast you will very rarely die actually (if you're at all cautious and care about not dying for some weird reason).

    10 was never considered a zerg and 20 was never considered a blob.

    Hell until, HoT released 20 was standard guild size and now it's 15-20. You don't go calling that a zerg, no body does. And a blob tends to be 50 people, with sometimes having a term, zoneblob for full map aka. 70+ people.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Israel.7056 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    (I suggest to shutdown wvw+pvp entirely)

    LOL. Sounds like someone needs a break.

    Funny thing is, i've been taking more breaks than ever in all Gw2 6 years combine. I won't stop until Anet completely strip down thief and mesmer. I do give Anet credit for the last patch in dealing with them but the root of the problems-their design+mechanic has not changed at all,

    Until their core design mechanics are completely design: i'll be the one laughing while playing competitive healthy games by game companies who would never tolerate toxic designs to run rampant in their game especially in 6 years straight.

    So yeah! going to spend more time in Pve and with more breaks lol

    You Get What You Tolerate

    Good,hopefully u leave for good,games better off without immature cry babies that think it’s funny to try and destroy classes that people enjoy all because u cant take a beating, life must be fun for u!

    Thank You! :)

    Life is about taking chances, trying new things, having fun, making mistakes and learning from it

    'The past should be a
    learning experience not an
    everlasting punishment.
    What's done is done.
    Constantly going over the
    ore deals you previously
    faced will only be a burden
    in your life'

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @SloRules.3560 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:
    A "Blob" is 15 to 20 people. A "Zerg" is 20+. A group can range from 2-10 people. You can roam with a small group of people, usually that is around 5 people. It's not enough to steamroll over everything, but it is enough to capture a Tower while everybody else is occupied fighting off an attack from a blob or zerg. I've seen many group of 5 roamers running around capturing sentries, camps, and then attempting towers occasionally as well. Roaming is not always just solo. If you roam solo odds are you are going to get caught and killed. It's better to travel in numbers than alone.

    I mean it's all opinions really as there are no hard definitions but

    5 people really really is pushing it if you still can it roaming

    10 is most definitively already a zerg but a small one

    20+ is a blob

    Most "decent" roamers can easily take towers while being just 2 people (if they don't find sieging too boring and there isn't too many defenders obvs) and the only reason they can't solo is that sieging without someone to talk to would drive you nuts therefore it's impossible to do solo.

    However roamers are only interested in fights so taking stuff while "to capture a Tower while everybody else is occupied" generally isn't something their interested in, the only reason I ever take objectives is with the hope that enemy players will show up.

    Also if you solo roam on a thief, mirage or soulbeast you will very rarely die actually (if you're at all cautious and care about not dying for some weird reason).

    10 was never considered a zerg and 20 was never considered a blob.

    Hell until, HoT released 20 was standard guild size and now it's 15-20. You don't go calling that a zerg, no body does. And a blob tends to be 50 people, with sometimes having a term, zoneblob for full map aka. 70+ people.

    Well that depends on who you ask, more or less everyone i know would refer to 10 as a small zerg and 20 a blob (albeit a small one). I have never met anyone really who has referred to 10 players as anything else, but your experience clearly differs.

    To me at least the terms mainly mean how much your individual performance matters, if I play in a 10 man group I can slack pretty hard because me playing top tier instead of mediocre most likely barely impacts group performance. Hence it's a zerg

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2019

    What i have heard and would say over the years:

    1 Solo roam
    2 Duo roam
    3-5 Roaming Group
    6-10 Havoc
    11-40 Zerg
    41-60 Blob
    61-80 Fullzone Blob

    but i think somewhat subjective.

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