Armor of Earth QoL change — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Armor of Earth QoL change

Make it pulse stability every one second rather than 1 big stack at the beginning.

As it is right now, one necro spamming condi removal/conversion (which they got a kitten ton) in the general direction of the ele without even knowing the ele is there pretty much makes the only reliable way of getting stability pretty much a liability.

It would increase ele's survavility which is much needed right now.

Comments

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The saddest part is that it gives 10 stability and lasts 6 seconds. Meaning that without boon duration you cant even get CC-ed 10 times before stability runs out.

    Meanwhile it's still on 50 second cooldown.

  • i always thought it would be cool if it functioned like stone heart.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 22, 2018

    @Fortus.6175 said:
    Make it pulse stability every one second rather than 1 big stack at the beginning.

    As it is right now, one necro spamming condi removal/conversion (which they got a kitten ton) in the general direction of the ele without even knowing the ele is there pretty much makes the only reliable way of getting stability pretty much a liability.

    It would increase ele's survavility which is much needed right now.

    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Armor of earth passive on earth line needs to trigger on hard cc. It may need to act like spectail armor (not giving life forces) giving protection (and maybe stab) per hit you take.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's also annoying against thieves :/

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:
    Make it pulse stability every one second rather than 1 big stack at the beginning.

    As it is right now, one necro spamming condi removal/conversion (which they got a kitten ton) in the general direction of the ele without even knowing the ele is there pretty much makes the only reliable way of getting stability pretty much a liability.

    It would increase ele's survavility which is much needed right now.

    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    Umm..no? They can strip/CC you once, but you get stab again in a second if it was pulsing. Right now they need a single corrupt and you're insta feared with no stab left.

    IMO armor of earth should be a separate buff instead of boon. Since it's already self only, might as well make it actual armor of earth, something like absorb % of incoming damage and reduce effectiveness of incoming CC (or negate completely, or something in the middle).

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 22, 2018

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:
    Make it pulse stability every one second rather than 1 big stack at the beginning.

    As it is right now, one necro spamming condi removal/conversion (which they got a kitten ton) in the general direction of the ele without even knowing the ele is there pretty much makes the only reliable way of getting stability pretty much a liability.

    It would increase ele's survavility which is much needed right now.

    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    Umm..no? They can strip/CC you once, but you get stab again in a second if it was pulsing. Right now they need a single corrupt and you're insta feared with no stab left.

    Right but what is to stop them corrupting the stab you gained the second after? Or the second after that, or the one after that?

    The reason it's a bigger liability against corruption is it can then be chained and what would be up to 2s of fear turns into something much longer.

    Especially against reaper as fear causes chill which is not s friendly condition to elementalists.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:
    Make it pulse stability every one second rather than 1 big stack at the beginning.

    As it is right now, one necro spamming condi removal/conversion (which they got a kitten ton) in the general direction of the ele without even knowing the ele is there pretty much makes the only reliable way of getting stability pretty much a liability.

    It would increase ele's survavility which is much needed right now.

    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    Umm..no? They can strip/CC you once, but you get stab again in a second if it was pulsing. Right now they need a single corrupt and you're insta feared with no stab left.

    Right but what is to stop them corrupting the stab you gained the second after? Or the second after that, or the one after that?

    The reason it's a bigger liability against corruption is it can then be chained and what would be up to 2s of fear turns into something much longer.

    Especially against reaper as fear causes chill which is not s friendly condition to elementalists.

    It wouldnt stop them but they'd have to use more skills to counter only one of yours, making armor of earth much more effective. If they focus all their skills on corrupting they'd do less damage than corrupting you once and using their burst. There's no liability in any situation.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 22, 2018

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:
    Make it pulse stability every one second rather than 1 big stack at the beginning.

    As it is right now, one necro spamming condi removal/conversion (which they got a kitten ton) in the general direction of the ele without even knowing the ele is there pretty much makes the only reliable way of getting stability pretty much a liability.

    It would increase ele's survavility which is much needed right now.

    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    Umm..no? They can strip/CC you once, but you get stab again in a second if it was pulsing. Right now they need a single corrupt and you're insta feared with no stab left.

    Right but what is to stop them corrupting the stab you gained the second after? Or the second after that, or the one after that?

    The reason it's a bigger liability against corruption is it can then be chained and what would be up to 2s of fear turns into something much longer.

    Especially against reaper as fear causes chill which is not s friendly condition to elementalists.

    It wouldnt stop them but they'd have to use more skills to counter only one of yours, making armor of earth much more effective. If they focus all their skills on corrupting they'd do less damage than corrupting you once and using their burst. There's no liability in any situation.

    So you are saying you would do nothing against being feared for up to 8s+? No stun breaks, condi cleanse,nothing? In a team fight that's certain death and in a 1v1 a pulsing stability would almost guarantee a decap. No you would use your own skills so this wouldn't happen. Saying many skills to counter one isn't a good argument because you aren't going to play dead.

    A lot of skills that corrupt do decent damage. Necro have a lot of synergy with fear in that is can chill, apply up to 13stacks of vulnerability , cause damage when traited.

    Any more than 2s is also plenty of time to follow up with decent and potentially incredibly elevated and lethal damage.

    There is plenty of liability if having it as a pulsing boon against corruption. It's just weird you don't see it.

  • Waisenpai.6028Waisenpai.6028 Member ✭✭
    edited December 22, 2018

    Lots of core skills got redesign.

    It's better if Armor of Earth pulsates stability like warrior balance stance.

    Read boons in wiki and look at all the professions that can corupt or remove boons via traits or just base weapon skills. You would be amazed if you have been playing since beta.

    Sword Weavers are decent 1v1 vs non POF metas in wvw. Sadly sword still has low packet damage, very small range and is easy to read. Good luck catching holo, mirage, or firebrand if fleeing from battle. You will never catch the others. And chill from Reapers gibs you so hard.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:
    Make it pulse stability every one second rather than 1 big stack at the beginning.

    As it is right now, one necro spamming condi removal/conversion (which they got a kitten ton) in the general direction of the ele without even knowing the ele is there pretty much makes the only reliable way of getting stability pretty much a liability.

    It would increase ele's survavility which is much needed right now.

    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    Umm..no? They can strip/CC you once, but you get stab again in a second if it was pulsing. Right now they need a single corrupt and you're insta feared with no stab left.

    Right but what is to stop them corrupting the stab you gained the second after? Or the second after that, or the one after that?

    The reason it's a bigger liability against corruption is it can then be chained and what would be up to 2s of fear turns into something much longer.

    Especially against reaper as fear causes chill which is not s friendly condition to elementalists.

    It wouldnt stop them but they'd have to use more skills to counter only one of yours, making armor of earth much more effective. If they focus all their skills on corrupting they'd do less damage than corrupting you once and using their burst. There's no liability in any situation.

    So you are saying you would do nothing against being feared for up to 8s+? No stun breaks, condi cleanse,nothing? In a team fight that's certain death and in a 1v1 a pulsing stability would almost guarantee a decap. No you would use your own skills so this wouldn't happen. Saying many skills to counter one isn't a good argument because you aren't going to play dead.

    A lot of skills that corrupt do decent damage. Necro have a lot of synergy with fear in that is can chill, apply up to 13stacks of vulnerability , cause damage when traited.

    Any more than 2s is also plenty of time to follow up with decent and potentially incredibly elevated and lethal damage.

    There is plenty of liability if having it as a pulsing boon against corruption. It's just weird you don't see it.

    Yes because fear over fear over fear with "some decent damage" is still doing far less than getting stun locked and damaged with actual damaging skills (not to mention that your boons get removed since you cant stun break that often to actually respond to pressure). If you get feared for 8 seconds it means that they wasted 3-5 corrupts on you, but you're still alive because they dont want to leave the point and chase you down. If you get stun locked on the point you're just dead.

    Lets not forget that condi cleanses are a lot more present than stun breaks (even aoe ones), so getting feared is more beneficial to you than getting stunned because fear has multiple counters, other CC's don't. CC is also more present than corrupts. What happens if enemy doesnt chain corrupt you, but only corrupt you when you have stab?

    There's a reason why sword weaver is using stance trait with 3/4 stances.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 22, 2018

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • GoodWithGravy.8019GoodWithGravy.8019 Member ✭✭
    edited December 23, 2018

    Given eles squishiness and constant need to do relatively complex chains of skills to do absolutely anything, armour of earth should give either a special non removable/corruptable hard CC immunity or a reasonably large defiance bar. Also make the earth trait trigger on CC not on %HP.

    It’s not shared, has a big cooldown, and still leaves the user vulnerable to soft CC. Would be good but not OP.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    LoLest part is being corrupted, stunlocked and burst to death with the rocks still floating around you.

  • i have a good idea for earth armor.
    reduce cooldown to 20 seconds

  • Let me re-type this armor of earth

    Protection (6s): -33% Incoming Damage
    Stability (6s) and pulsates stability for 1 second ever 6 seconds

    Breaks Stuns and pulsates stun break every second for the next 3 second.

    We can add more
    Casting armor of earth Launches foes : 450 Number of Targets: 5

    Sword Weavers are decent 1v1 vs non POF metas in wvw. Sadly sword still has low packet damage, very small range and is easy to read. Good luck catching holo, mirage, or firebrand if fleeing from battle. You will never catch the others. And chill from Reapers gibs you so hard.

  • You also get a free bunny every time you cast armor of earth IRL.

    Sword Weavers are decent 1v1 vs non POF metas in wvw. Sadly sword still has low packet damage, very small range and is easy to read. Good luck catching holo, mirage, or firebrand if fleeing from battle. You will never catch the others. And chill from Reapers gibs you so hard.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

    Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

    Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

    I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2018

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

    Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

    Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

    I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

    Warr has pulsing stab. How many times have you seen one being perma feared? Weaver uses stab on stances which are used quite frequently for a lot of stab uptime, what about that? When was the last time you've seen weaver with armor of earth?

    Besides, only necro has corrupts, every class has hard CC and you can apply boons so your pulsing stab doesn't get corrupted each pulse. Ele cant apply more than 2-3 boons per second to secure that one-time stab doesn't get insta corrupted.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

    Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

    Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

    I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

    Warr has pulsing stab. How many times have you seen one being perma feared? Weaver uses stab on stances which are used quite frequently for a lot of stab uptime, what about that? When was the last time you've seen weaver with armor of earth?

    Besides, only necro has corrupts, every class has hard CC and you can apply boons so your pulsing stab doesn't get corrupted each pulse. Ele cant apply more than 2-3 boons per second to secure that one-time stab doesn't get insta corrupted.

    You do realise the only pulsing stab warrior has outside of rampage is balanced stance which warriors don't use at all because having longer duration single application stab is better than pulsing? That's without mentioning there's a world of difference between how a warrior fights a necro and how ele does. War tends to stunlock opponents and what do you know, necro doesn't have enough stunbreaks let alone stab to deal with it so the warrior often doesn't get the stab corrupted. If it does, cleanse or resistance and ignore.

    Wait what? Have you ever actually played ele?

    Here's ele fighting a boon removal mesmer and the ele is literally face tanking shatters so constantly having boons removed. Notice how quickly he gets back up to 3-5 boons? With no removal ele is usually sitting at might, swiftness, regen, protection and vigor as permanent boons and you're likely to have some fury/retal mixed in from elemental contingency assuming you don't believe in auto procs saving your life when you messed up. Sure they "can't apply more than 2-3 boons per second" but name any class that can consistently do that? I know many, including ele can burst out a load of boons but most classes cannot constantly churn out boons on the same level as ele and guardian.

    This entire thread is "ele mains" complaining their class is bottom tier in PvP and whining for buffs instead of properly addressing the power creep as they're too short sighted to see how bad the state of the game is now and how much worse it will get if you keep buffing ele instead of nerfing everything down several notches.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2018

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

    Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

    Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

    I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

    Warr has pulsing stab. How many times have you seen one being perma feared? Weaver uses stab on stances which are used quite frequently for a lot of stab uptime, what about that? When was the last time you've seen weaver with armor of earth?

    Besides, only necro has corrupts, every class has hard CC and you can apply boons so your pulsing stab doesn't get corrupted each pulse. Ele cant apply more than 2-3 boons per second to secure that one-time stab doesn't get insta corrupted.

    You do realise the only pulsing stab warrior has outside of rampage is balanced stance which warriors don't use at all because having longer duration single application stab is better than pulsing? That's without mentioning there's a world of difference between how a warrior fights a necro and how ele does. War tends to stunlock opponents and what do you know, necro doesn't have enough stunbreaks let alone stab to deal with it so the warrior often doesn't get the stab corrupted. If it does, cleanse or resistance and ignore.

    Wait what? Have you ever actually played ele?

    Here's ele fighting a boon removal mesmer and the ele is literally face tanking shatters so constantly having boons removed. Notice how quickly he gets back up to 3-5 boons? With no removal ele is usually sitting at might, swiftness, regen, protection and vigor as permanent boons and you're likely to have some fury/retal mixed in from elemental contingency assuming you don't believe in auto procs saving your life when you messed up. Sure they "can't apply more than 2-3 boons per second" but name any class that can consistently do that? I know many, including ele can burst out a load of boons but most classes cannot constantly churn out boons on the same level as ele and guardian.

    This entire thread is "ele mains" complaining their class is bottom tier in PvP and whining for buffs instead of properly addressing the power creep as they're too short sighted to see how bad the state of the game is now and how much worse it will get if you keep buffing ele instead of nerfing everything down several notches.

    How does 1v1 reflect the class performance in teamfight? He's playing sword weaver even, he can facetank whatever he wants because he can, which is the whole point of that build. The whole spec is focused on dueling, especially with defensive traits from water and arcane. But how does it perform in teamfight? How much damage does it do? From what range? How many boons does it remove? The answer is 0 to all of those.

    Nobody's complaining about bad state of weaver. People want useful builds that arent sword weaver. People are tired of playing a facetank that's just spamming buttons and healing up without doing anything else.

    People want any boons without arcane, any cleanses without water, any fighting potential without weaver... You cant do that with outdated core skills.

    So yeah, they'll ask for powercreep because it never happened on ele. Core ele hasn't received any meaningful buff to compensate for nerfs it's been getting since HoT due to elite specs performing too well. Too well in pve even...

  • @apharma.3741 said:
    snips

    ok lol then AoE and dodge. simple. necros are unlikely to chain corrupt unless corrupt boon. ok so two corrupts, chances are you will survive (not against necro in general tho lol). anyway I don't think pulsing stab is better then critical hit immunity.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

    Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

    Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

    I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

    Warr has pulsing stab. How many times have you seen one being perma feared? Weaver uses stab on stances which are used quite frequently for a lot of stab uptime, what about that? When was the last time you've seen weaver with armor of earth?

    Besides, only necro has corrupts, every class has hard CC and you can apply boons so your pulsing stab doesn't get corrupted each pulse. Ele cant apply more than 2-3 boons per second to secure that one-time stab doesn't get insta corrupted.

    You do realise the only pulsing stab warrior has outside of rampage is balanced stance which warriors don't use at all because having longer duration single application stab is better than pulsing? That's without mentioning there's a world of difference between how a warrior fights a necro and how ele does. War tends to stunlock opponents and what do you know, necro doesn't have enough stunbreaks let alone stab to deal with it so the warrior often doesn't get the stab corrupted. If it does, cleanse or resistance and ignore.

    Wait what? Have you ever actually played ele?

    Here's ele fighting a boon removal mesmer and the ele is literally face tanking shatters so constantly having boons removed. Notice how quickly he gets back up to 3-5 boons? With no removal ele is usually sitting at might, swiftness, regen, protection and vigor as permanent boons and you're likely to have some fury/retal mixed in from elemental contingency assuming you don't believe in auto procs saving your life when you messed up. Sure they "can't apply more than 2-3 boons per second" but name any class that can consistently do that? I know many, including ele can burst out a load of boons but most classes cannot constantly churn out boons on the same level as ele and guardian.

    This entire thread is "ele mains" complaining their class is bottom tier in PvP and whining for buffs instead of properly addressing the power creep as they're too short sighted to see how bad the state of the game is now and how much worse it will get if you keep buffing ele instead of nerfing everything down several notches.

    That video is out dated as it looks like he was using evasion runes that just got a massive nerf both having swiftness for clears and swiftness to cover boons makes for a good counter to mezme. Also balancing in this game is not base off of 1v1 and if it is ppl at anet need to be fired from there jobs lol.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2018

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

    Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

    Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

    I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

    Warr has pulsing stab. How many times have you seen one being perma feared? Weaver uses stab on stances which are used quite frequently for a lot of stab uptime, what about that? When was the last time you've seen weaver with armor of earth?

    Besides, only necro has corrupts, every class has hard CC and you can apply boons so your pulsing stab doesn't get corrupted each pulse. Ele cant apply more than 2-3 boons per second to secure that one-time stab doesn't get insta corrupted.

    You do realise the only pulsing stab warrior has outside of rampage is balanced stance which warriors don't use at all because having longer duration single application stab is better than pulsing? That's without mentioning there's a world of difference between how a warrior fights a necro and how ele does. War tends to stunlock opponents and what do you know, necro doesn't have enough stunbreaks let alone stab to deal with it so the warrior often doesn't get the stab corrupted. If it does, cleanse or resistance and ignore.

    Wait what? Have you ever actually played ele?

    Here's ele fighting a boon removal mesmer and the ele is literally face tanking shatters so constantly having boons removed. Notice how quickly he gets back up to 3-5 boons? With no removal ele is usually sitting at might, swiftness, regen, protection and vigor as permanent boons and you're likely to have some fury/retal mixed in from elemental contingency assuming you don't believe in auto procs saving your life when you messed up. Sure they "can't apply more than 2-3 boons per second" but name any class that can consistently do that? I know many, including ele can burst out a load of boons but most classes cannot constantly churn out boons on the same level as ele and guardian.

    This entire thread is "ele mains" complaining their class is bottom tier in PvP and whining for buffs instead of properly addressing the power creep as they're too short sighted to see how bad the state of the game is now and how much worse it will get if you keep buffing ele instead of nerfing everything down several notches.

    Once you nerf everything down...would you address the clankiness of weaver like the unnecessary double attunement CD? After the several nerfs received now you don't have even the wvw staff meme build to support any claim of ele viability with weaver a supposed dmg focused elite, the whole elite is close to be a joke on par with renegade.

    Do you even know the real facts? The elementalist has received nothing but build destroying nerfs since Septmber 2015 while on the other side everybody else except revenant received substantial buffs to their utilities and trait lines.

    The last time we saw substantial buffs to traitlines was back in Dec 2013 with the introduction of Stone Heart , Diamond skin and Blinding ashes, also Lightning rod and after that....nerfs upon nerfs adding to more nerfs with the removal of any usable amulet but hey...eles are crying too much so....let's make a deal : you bring your list of facts and I bring mine then we see if all the complaints are really unwarranted

    And please please please @apharma.3741 it's time for you to realize that nobody asked anet to turn the spellcaster from GW1 into a magic warrior meme so it's not the bloody fault of the playerbase if they try to get by with what they've got, if you want people to stay at melee range...they need bloody sustain

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

    Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

    Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

    I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

    Warr has pulsing stab. How many times have you seen one being perma feared? Weaver uses stab on stances which are used quite frequently for a lot of stab uptime, what about that? When was the last time you've seen weaver with armor of earth?

    Besides, only necro has corrupts, every class has hard CC and you can apply boons so your pulsing stab doesn't get corrupted each pulse. Ele cant apply more than 2-3 boons per second to secure that one-time stab doesn't get insta corrupted.

    You do realise the only pulsing stab warrior has outside of rampage is balanced stance which warriors don't use at all because having longer duration single application stab is better than pulsing? That's without mentioning there's a world of difference between how a warrior fights a necro and how ele does. War tends to stunlock opponents and what do you know, necro doesn't have enough stunbreaks let alone stab to deal with it so the warrior often doesn't get the stab corrupted. If it does, cleanse or resistance and ignore.

    Wait what? Have you ever actually played ele?

    Here's ele fighting a boon removal mesmer and the ele is literally face tanking shatters so constantly having boons removed. Notice how quickly he gets back up to 3-5 boons? With no removal ele is usually sitting at might, swiftness, regen, protection and vigor as permanent boons and you're likely to have some fury/retal mixed in from elemental contingency assuming you don't believe in auto procs saving your life when you messed up. Sure they "can't apply more than 2-3 boons per second" but name any class that can consistently do that? I know many, including ele can burst out a load of boons but most classes cannot constantly churn out boons on the same level as ele and guardian.

    This entire thread is "ele mains" complaining their class is bottom tier in PvP and whining for buffs instead of properly addressing the power creep as they're too short sighted to see how bad the state of the game is now and how much worse it will get if you keep buffing ele instead of nerfing everything down several notches.

    Once you nerf everything down...would you address the clankiness of weaver like the unnecessary double attunement CD? After the several nerfs received now you don't have even the wvw staff meme build to support any claim of ele viability with weaver a supposed dmg focused elite, the whole elite is close to be a joke on par with renegade.

    Do you even know the real facts? The elementalist has received nothing but build destroying nerfs since Septmber 2015 while on the other side everybody else except revenant received substantial buffs to their utilities and trait lines.

    The last time we saw substantial buffs to traitlines was back in Dec 2013 with the introduction of Stone Heart , Diamond skin and Blinding ashes, also Lightning rod and after that....nerfs upon nerfs adding to more nerfs with the removal of any usable amulet but hey...eles are crying too much so....let's make a deal : you bring your list of facts and I bring mine then we see if all the complaints are really unwarranted

    And please please please @apharma.3741 it's time for you to realize that nobody asked anet to turn the spellcaster from GW1 into a magic warrior meme so it's not the bloody fault of the playerbase if they try to get by with what they've got, if you want people to stay at melee range...they need bloody sustain

    It is the fault of the playerbase when they know everything is too strong, they know everything needs toning down but they ask for buffs anyway. Pulsing stab has very little counterplay as it is reapplied soon after being stolen/ripped, outside of boon corrupt where it is objectively worse.

    Also have you all not realised that if stab pulses all your boon duration would actually give you LESS duration on your stability? 50% boon duration will give you 9s stab currently, if it's pulsing you'd get shorter duration of 2-3s so only get 7-7.5s total of stab with the same amount of duration as it doesn't stack duration. That wouldn't be a QoL change it would be a change many in the playerbase after using would think was a dumb idea.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2019

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

    Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

    Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

    I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

    Warr has pulsing stab. How many times have you seen one being perma feared? Weaver uses stab on stances which are used quite frequently for a lot of stab uptime, what about that? When was the last time you've seen weaver with armor of earth?

    Besides, only necro has corrupts, every class has hard CC and you can apply boons so your pulsing stab doesn't get corrupted each pulse. Ele cant apply more than 2-3 boons per second to secure that one-time stab doesn't get insta corrupted.

    You do realise the only pulsing stab warrior has outside of rampage is balanced stance which warriors don't use at all because having longer duration single application stab is better than pulsing? That's without mentioning there's a world of difference between how a warrior fights a necro and how ele does. War tends to stunlock opponents and what do you know, necro doesn't have enough stunbreaks let alone stab to deal with it so the warrior often doesn't get the stab corrupted. If it does, cleanse or resistance and ignore.

    Wait what? Have you ever actually played ele?

    Here's ele fighting a boon removal mesmer and the ele is literally face tanking shatters so constantly having boons removed. Notice how quickly he gets back up to 3-5 boons? With no removal ele is usually sitting at might, swiftness, regen, protection and vigor as permanent boons and you're likely to have some fury/retal mixed in from elemental contingency assuming you don't believe in auto procs saving your life when you messed up. Sure they "can't apply more than 2-3 boons per second" but name any class that can consistently do that? I know many, including ele can burst out a load of boons but most classes cannot constantly churn out boons on the same level as ele and guardian.

    This entire thread is "ele mains" complaining their class is bottom tier in PvP and whining for buffs instead of properly addressing the power creep as they're too short sighted to see how bad the state of the game is now and how much worse it will get if you keep buffing ele instead of nerfing everything down several notches.

    Once you nerf everything down...would you address the clankiness of weaver like the unnecessary double attunement CD? After the several nerfs received now you don't have even the wvw staff meme build to support any claim of ele viability with weaver a supposed dmg focused elite, the whole elite is close to be a joke on par with renegade.

    Do you even know the real facts? The elementalist has received nothing but build destroying nerfs since Septmber 2015 while on the other side everybody else except revenant received substantial buffs to their utilities and trait lines.

    The last time we saw substantial buffs to traitlines was back in Dec 2013 with the introduction of Stone Heart , Diamond skin and Blinding ashes, also Lightning rod and after that....nerfs upon nerfs adding to more nerfs with the removal of any usable amulet but hey...eles are crying too much so....let's make a deal : you bring your list of facts and I bring mine then we see if all the complaints are really unwarranted

    And please please please @apharma.3741 it's time for you to realize that nobody asked anet to turn the spellcaster from GW1 into a magic warrior meme so it's not the bloody fault of the playerbase if they try to get by with what they've got, if you want people to stay at melee range...they need bloody sustain

    It is the fault of the playerbase when they know everything is too strong, they know everything needs toning down but they ask for buffs anyway. Pulsing stab has very little counterplay as it is reapplied soon after being stolen/ripped, outside of boon corrupt where it is objectively worse.

    Also have you all not realised that if stab pulses all your boon duration would actually give you LESS duration on your stability? 50% boon duration will give you 9s stab currently, if it's pulsing you'd get shorter duration of 2-3s so only get 7-7.5s total of stab with the same amount of duration as it doesn't stack duration. That wouldn't be a QoL change it would be a change many in the playerbase after using would think was a dumb idea.

    It doesn't seem Anet nerfing anything on the contrary.....

    I get it where you come from but so should you with us, we all know that they screwed up royally with elementalist..they know this themselves ...only they will never admit it in their infinite arrogance, try tried to reinvent the wheel and they got burned badly and justly so, they could have expanded on the GW1 concept in so many way but instead they got sidetracked by their own euphoria.

    Nerfing everything will not change much , you forget all the gear/stats changes since HoT launch, all the trait and QoL changes which are now immune to any kind of powercreep reversion.

    In the end the GW2 elementalist is a clown fiesta concept that relies on gimmicks to remain competitive and this has been clear since day one but only it got conveniently brushed under the carpet by the community and devs alike. When you must use every single defensive utility/trait just to be playable..you know the whole design is a total fiasco, everything comes down like a domino at a minimal nerf....it's ridiculous

    They made this class : the lowest Hp and armor, the most complicated mechanic and a complete lack of inbuilt defensice mechanisms...then they gave it a set of melee weapons and they expect everything to work....it's complete non-sense

    You don't need a degree in mechanical engineering to know that a car can't run on square wheels and in the same vein you don't need to be a game designer to know something at melee range needs proper sustain to survive....1+1=2

    Yes I know where you come from, we don't want to see a resurgence of the celestial bunker d/d but they did this mess and now who is supposed to clear it? They should clearly go back to the drawing board with ele at this point but they won't do it so their only option is to add even more gimmicks because without any OP trait/skill/gear this class simply doesn't work at all...

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

    Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

    Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

    I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

    Warr has pulsing stab. How many times have you seen one being perma feared? Weaver uses stab on stances which are used quite frequently for a lot of stab uptime, what about that? When was the last time you've seen weaver with armor of earth?

    Besides, only necro has corrupts, every class has hard CC and you can apply boons so your pulsing stab doesn't get corrupted each pulse. Ele cant apply more than 2-3 boons per second to secure that one-time stab doesn't get insta corrupted.

    You do realise the only pulsing stab warrior has outside of rampage is balanced stance which warriors don't use at all because having longer duration single application stab is better than pulsing? That's without mentioning there's a world of difference between how a warrior fights a necro and how ele does. War tends to stunlock opponents and what do you know, necro doesn't have enough stunbreaks let alone stab to deal with it so the warrior often doesn't get the stab corrupted. If it does, cleanse or resistance and ignore.

    Wait what? Have you ever actually played ele?

    Here's ele fighting a boon removal mesmer and the ele is literally face tanking shatters so constantly having boons removed. Notice how quickly he gets back up to 3-5 boons? With no removal ele is usually sitting at might, swiftness, regen, protection and vigor as permanent boons and you're likely to have some fury/retal mixed in from elemental contingency assuming you don't believe in auto procs saving your life when you messed up. Sure they "can't apply more than 2-3 boons per second" but name any class that can consistently do that? I know many, including ele can burst out a load of boons but most classes cannot constantly churn out boons on the same level as ele and guardian.

    This entire thread is "ele mains" complaining their class is bottom tier in PvP and whining for buffs instead of properly addressing the power creep as they're too short sighted to see how bad the state of the game is now and how much worse it will get if you keep buffing ele instead of nerfing everything down several notches.

    Once you nerf everything down...would you address the clankiness of weaver like the unnecessary double attunement CD? After the several nerfs received now you don't have even the wvw staff meme build to support any claim of ele viability with weaver a supposed dmg focused elite, the whole elite is close to be a joke on par with renegade.

    Do you even know the real facts? The elementalist has received nothing but build destroying nerfs since Septmber 2015 while on the other side everybody else except revenant received substantial buffs to their utilities and trait lines.

    The last time we saw substantial buffs to traitlines was back in Dec 2013 with the introduction of Stone Heart , Diamond skin and Blinding ashes, also Lightning rod and after that....nerfs upon nerfs adding to more nerfs with the removal of any usable amulet but hey...eles are crying too much so....let's make a deal : you bring your list of facts and I bring mine then we see if all the complaints are really unwarranted

    And please please please @apharma.3741 it's time for you to realize that nobody asked anet to turn the spellcaster from GW1 into a magic warrior meme so it's not the bloody fault of the playerbase if they try to get by with what they've got, if you want people to stay at melee range...they need bloody sustain

    It is the fault of the playerbase when they know everything is too strong, they know everything needs toning down but they ask for buffs anyway. Pulsing stab has very little counterplay as it is reapplied soon after being stolen/ripped, outside of boon corrupt where it is objectively worse.

    Also have you all not realised that if stab pulses all your boon duration would actually give you LESS duration on your stability? 50% boon duration will give you 9s stab currently, if it's pulsing you'd get shorter duration of 2-3s so only get 7-7.5s total of stab with the same amount of duration as it doesn't stack duration. That wouldn't be a QoL change it would be a change many in the playerbase after using would think was a dumb idea.

    It doesn't seem Anet nerfing anything on the contrary.....

    I get it where you come from but so should you with us, we all know that they screwed up royally with elementalist..they know this themselves ...only they will never admit it in their infinite arrogance, try tried to reinvent the wheel and they got burned badly and justly so, they could have expanded on the GW1 concept in so many way but instead they got sidetracked by their own euphoria.

    Nerfing everything will not change much , you forget all the gear/stats changes since HoT launch, all the trait and QoL changes which are now immune to any kind of powercreep reversion.

    In the end the GW2 elementalist is a clown fiesta concept that relies on gimmicks to remain competitive and this has been clear since day one but only it got conveniently brushed under the carpet by the community and devs alike. When you must use every single defensive utility/trait just to be playable..you know the whole design is a total fiasco, everything comes down like a domino at a minimal nerf....it's ridiculous

    They made this class : the lowest Hp and armor, the most complicated mechanic and a complete lack of inbuilt defensice mechanisms...then they gave it a set of melee weapons and they expect everything to work....it's complete non-sense

    You don't need a degree in mechanical engineering to know that a car can't run on square wheels and in the same vein you don't need to be a game designer to know something at melee range needs proper sustain to survive....1+1=2

    Yes I know where you come from, we don't want to see a resurgence of the celestial bunker d/d but they did this mess and now who is supposed to clear it? They should clearly go back to the drawing board with ele at this point but they won't do it so their only option is to add even more gimmicks because without any OP trait/skill/gear this class simply doesn't work at all...

    Ele has decent defensive mechanics depending on how you build it. I remember saying this to someone a while back and pointing out that nearly every ele weapon combo has a heal and a cleanse on the set, some more so than others but this is baseline on the skills. Ele also has some pretty decent proactive ways to lower damage taken whether it's by control on staff, gaining toughness and blinds on scepter (yes scepter needs a rework I'll agree with that) shocking aura and ring of earth on dagger as well as the flavours of offhand.

    If you look at it in terms of the core game ele has a lot, even with HoT core ele is relatively competitive and I am running around currently with core ele in WvW. It's just the PoF specs that are a whole new level.

    Yes stat types are probably immune to power creep reversion unless they remove them and let people choose new stats for affected pieces. However traits and QoL is easily changed, they actually did this with a lot of pulsing stab ironically as it offered no counter play to removing and made you essentially immune to anything but repeated corruption. They can also easily tone down the power creep, I outlined changes in a post on the engineer forums where you can keep the flavour but reduce the power and keep going from there:

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/751210#Comment_751210

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

    Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

    Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

    I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

    Warr has pulsing stab. How many times have you seen one being perma feared? Weaver uses stab on stances which are used quite frequently for a lot of stab uptime, what about that? When was the last time you've seen weaver with armor of earth?

    Besides, only necro has corrupts, every class has hard CC and you can apply boons so your pulsing stab doesn't get corrupted each pulse. Ele cant apply more than 2-3 boons per second to secure that one-time stab doesn't get insta corrupted.

    You do realise the only pulsing stab warrior has outside of rampage is balanced stance which warriors don't use at all because having longer duration single application stab is better than pulsing? That's without mentioning there's a world of difference between how a warrior fights a necro and how ele does. War tends to stunlock opponents and what do you know, necro doesn't have enough stunbreaks let alone stab to deal with it so the warrior often doesn't get the stab corrupted. If it does, cleanse or resistance and ignore.

    Wait what? Have you ever actually played ele?

    Here's ele fighting a boon removal mesmer and the ele is literally face tanking shatters so constantly having boons removed. Notice how quickly he gets back up to 3-5 boons? With no removal ele is usually sitting at might, swiftness, regen, protection and vigor as permanent boons and you're likely to have some fury/retal mixed in from elemental contingency assuming you don't believe in auto procs saving your life when you messed up. Sure they "can't apply more than 2-3 boons per second" but name any class that can consistently do that? I know many, including ele can burst out a load of boons but most classes cannot constantly churn out boons on the same level as ele and guardian.

    This entire thread is "ele mains" complaining their class is bottom tier in PvP and whining for buffs instead of properly addressing the power creep as they're too short sighted to see how bad the state of the game is now and how much worse it will get if you keep buffing ele instead of nerfing everything down several notches.

    Once you nerf everything down...would you address the clankiness of weaver like the unnecessary double attunement CD? After the several nerfs received now you don't have even the wvw staff meme build to support any claim of ele viability with weaver a supposed dmg focused elite, the whole elite is close to be a joke on par with renegade.

    Do you even know the real facts? The elementalist has received nothing but build destroying nerfs since Septmber 2015 while on the other side everybody else except revenant received substantial buffs to their utilities and trait lines.

    The last time we saw substantial buffs to traitlines was back in Dec 2013 with the introduction of Stone Heart , Diamond skin and Blinding ashes, also Lightning rod and after that....nerfs upon nerfs adding to more nerfs with the removal of any usable amulet but hey...eles are crying too much so....let's make a deal : you bring your list of facts and I bring mine then we see if all the complaints are really unwarranted

    And please please please @apharma.3741 it's time for you to realize that nobody asked anet to turn the spellcaster from GW1 into a magic warrior meme so it's not the bloody fault of the playerbase if they try to get by with what they've got, if you want people to stay at melee range...they need bloody sustain

    It is the fault of the playerbase when they know everything is too strong, they know everything needs toning down but they ask for buffs anyway. Pulsing stab has very little counterplay as it is reapplied soon after being stolen/ripped, outside of boon corrupt where it is objectively worse.

    Also have you all not realised that if stab pulses all your boon duration would actually give you LESS duration on your stability? 50% boon duration will give you 9s stab currently, if it's pulsing you'd get shorter duration of 2-3s so only get 7-7.5s total of stab with the same amount of duration as it doesn't stack duration. That wouldn't be a QoL change it would be a change many in the playerbase after using would think was a dumb idea.

    It doesn't seem Anet nerfing anything on the contrary.....

    I get it where you come from but so should you with us, we all know that they screwed up royally with elementalist..they know this themselves ...only they will never admit it in their infinite arrogance, try tried to reinvent the wheel and they got burned badly and justly so, they could have expanded on the GW1 concept in so many way but instead they got sidetracked by their own euphoria.

    Nerfing everything will not change much , you forget all the gear/stats changes since HoT launch, all the trait and QoL changes which are now immune to any kind of powercreep reversion.

    In the end the GW2 elementalist is a clown fiesta concept that relies on gimmicks to remain competitive and this has been clear since day one but only it got conveniently brushed under the carpet by the community and devs alike. When you must use every single defensive utility/trait just to be playable..you know the whole design is a total fiasco, everything comes down like a domino at a minimal nerf....it's ridiculous

    They made this class : the lowest Hp and armor, the most complicated mechanic and a complete lack of inbuilt defensice mechanisms...then they gave it a set of melee weapons and they expect everything to work....it's complete non-sense

    You don't need a degree in mechanical engineering to know that a car can't run on square wheels and in the same vein you don't need to be a game designer to know something at melee range needs proper sustain to survive....1+1=2

    Yes I know where you come from, we don't want to see a resurgence of the celestial bunker d/d but they did this mess and now who is supposed to clear it? They should clearly go back to the drawing board with ele at this point but they won't do it so their only option is to add even more gimmicks because without any OP trait/skill/gear this class simply doesn't work at all...

    Ele has decent defensive mechanics depending on how you build it. I remember saying this to someone a while back and pointing out that nearly every ele weapon combo has a heal and a cleanse on the set, some more so than others but this is baseline on the skills. Ele also has some pretty decent proactive ways to lower damage taken whether it's by control on staff, gaining toughness and blinds on scepter (yes scepter needs a rework I'll agree with that) shocking aura and ring of earth on dagger as well as the flavours of offhand.

    If you look at it in terms of the core game ele has a lot, even with HoT core ele is relatively competitive and I am running around currently with core ele in WvW. It's just the PoF specs that are a whole new level.

    Yes stat types are probably immune to power creep reversion unless they remove them and let people choose new stats for affected pieces. However traits and QoL is easily changed, they actually did this with a lot of pulsing stab ironically as it offered no counter play to removing and made you essentially immune to anything but repeated corruption. They can also easily tone down the power creep, I outlined changes in a post on the engineer forums where you can keep the flavour but reduce the power and keep going from there:

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/751210#Comment_751210

    You can build a thief to never die with shadow arts and healing amulet...can do the same with druid with staff sword/warhorn and what about tactics healing spellbreaker? You get where I am going, being forced to stack every possible sustain trait and stat just to be playable is not what I would call "decent"....why ele can't have anything dealing dmg without dieing in 3s?

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.

    all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

    Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

    Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

    I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

    Warr has pulsing stab. How many times have you seen one being perma feared? Weaver uses stab on stances which are used quite frequently for a lot of stab uptime, what about that? When was the last time you've seen weaver with armor of earth?

    Besides, only necro has corrupts, every class has hard CC and you can apply boons so your pulsing stab doesn't get corrupted each pulse. Ele cant apply more than 2-3 boons per second to secure that one-time stab doesn't get insta corrupted.

    You do realise the only pulsing stab warrior has outside of rampage is balanced stance which warriors don't use at all because having longer duration single application stab is better than pulsing? That's without mentioning there's a world of difference between how a warrior fights a necro and how ele does. War tends to stunlock opponents and what do you know, necro doesn't have enough stunbreaks let alone stab to deal with it so the warrior often doesn't get the stab corrupted. If it does, cleanse or resistance and ignore.

    Wait what? Have you ever actually played ele?

    Here's ele fighting a boon removal mesmer and the ele is literally face tanking shatters so constantly having boons removed. Notice how quickly he gets back up to 3-5 boons? With no removal ele is usually sitting at might, swiftness, regen, protection and vigor as permanent boons and you're likely to have some fury/retal mixed in from elemental contingency assuming you don't believe in auto procs saving your life when you messed up. Sure they "can't apply more than 2-3 boons per second" but name any class that can consistently do that? I know many, including ele can burst out a load of boons but most classes cannot constantly churn out boons on the same level as ele and guardian.

    This entire thread is "ele mains" complaining their class is bottom tier in PvP and whining for buffs instead of properly addressing the power creep as they're too short sighted to see how bad the state of the game is now and how much worse it will get if you keep buffing ele instead of nerfing everything down several notches.

    Once you nerf everything down...would you address the clankiness of weaver like the unnecessary double attunement CD? After the several nerfs received now you don't have even the wvw staff meme build to support any claim of ele viability with weaver a supposed dmg focused elite, the whole elite is close to be a joke on par with renegade.

    Do you even know the real facts? The elementalist has received nothing but build destroying nerfs since Septmber 2015 while on the other side everybody else except revenant received substantial buffs to their utilities and trait lines.

    The last time we saw substantial buffs to traitlines was back in Dec 2013 with the introduction of Stone Heart , Diamond skin and Blinding ashes, also Lightning rod and after that....nerfs upon nerfs adding to more nerfs with the removal of any usable amulet but hey...eles are crying too much so....let's make a deal : you bring your list of facts and I bring mine then we see if all the complaints are really unwarranted

    And please please please @apharma.3741 it's time for you to realize that nobody asked anet to turn the spellcaster from GW1 into a magic warrior meme so it's not the bloody fault of the playerbase if they try to get by with what they've got, if you want people to stay at melee range...they need bloody sustain

    It is the fault of the playerbase when they know everything is too strong, they know everything needs toning down but they ask for buffs anyway. Pulsing stab has very little counterplay as it is reapplied soon after being stolen/ripped, outside of boon corrupt where it is objectively worse.

    Also have you all not realised that if stab pulses all your boon duration would actually give you LESS duration on your stability? 50% boon duration will give you 9s stab currently, if it's pulsing you'd get shorter duration of 2-3s so only get 7-7.5s total of stab with the same amount of duration as it doesn't stack duration. That wouldn't be a QoL change it would be a change many in the playerbase after using would think was a dumb idea.

    It doesn't seem Anet nerfing anything on the contrary.....

    I get it where you come from but so should you with us, we all know that they screwed up royally with elementalist..they know this themselves ...only they will never admit it in their infinite arrogance, try tried to reinvent the wheel and they got burned badly and justly so, they could have expanded on the GW1 concept in so many way but instead they got sidetracked by their own euphoria.

    Nerfing everything will not change much , you forget all the gear/stats changes since HoT launch, all the trait and QoL changes which are now immune to any kind of powercreep reversion.

    In the end the GW2 elementalist is a clown fiesta concept that relies on gimmicks to remain competitive and this has been clear since day one but only it got conveniently brushed under the carpet by the community and devs alike. When you must use every single defensive utility/trait just to be playable..you know the whole design is a total fiasco, everything comes down like a domino at a minimal nerf....it's ridiculous

    They made this class : the lowest Hp and armor, the most complicated mechanic and a complete lack of inbuilt defensice mechanisms...then they gave it a set of melee weapons and they expect everything to work....it's complete non-sense

    You don't need a degree in mechanical engineering to know that a car can't run on square wheels and in the same vein you don't need to be a game designer to know something at melee range needs proper sustain to survive....1+1=2

    Yes I know where you come from, we don't want to see a resurgence of the celestial bunker d/d but they did this mess and now who is supposed to clear it? They should clearly go back to the drawing board with ele at this point but they won't do it so their only option is to add even more gimmicks because without any OP trait/skill/gear this class simply doesn't work at all...

    Ele has decent defensive mechanics depending on how you build it. I remember saying this to someone a while back and pointing out that nearly every ele weapon combo has a heal and a cleanse on the set, some more so than others but this is baseline on the skills. Ele also has some pretty decent proactive ways to lower damage taken whether it's by control on staff, gaining toughness and blinds on scepter (yes scepter needs a rework I'll agree with that) shocking aura and ring of earth on dagger as well as the flavours of offhand.

    If you look at it in terms of the core game ele has a lot, even with HoT core ele is relatively competitive and I am running around currently with core ele in WvW. It's just the PoF specs that are a whole new level.

    Yes stat types are probably immune to power creep reversion unless they remove them and let people choose new stats for affected pieces. However traits and QoL is easily changed, they actually did this with a lot of pulsing stab ironically as it offered no counter play to removing and made you essentially immune to anything but repeated corruption. They can also easily tone down the power creep, I outlined changes in a post on the engineer forums where you can keep the flavour but reduce the power and keep going from there:

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/751210#Comment_751210

    You can build a thief to never die with shadow arts and healing amulet...can do the same with druid with staff sword/warhorn and what about tactics healing spellbreaker? You get where I am going, being forced to stack every possible sustain trait and stat just to be playable is not what I would call "decent"....why ele can't have anything dealing dmg without dieing in 3s?

    Because:

    "What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack. "

  • lLobo.7960lLobo.7960 Member ✭✭✭

    Armor of earth needs to pulse 1s of protection and stability every second for its duration. thats all.
    It will combo nicely with boom duration and runes, it can still be corrupted into one fear (but a stun-break or cleanse would solve that, unless chain corrupts, but needs counterplay anyway) , but having boom duration will make the stab overlap making it harder to be removed by chain cc.

  • Armor of Earth should NOT be pulsing boons. That's how a Necromancer would counter us even harder; we don't want to be feared for ten seconds because we decide to try to stun break; that's how Necromancers deal with Warriors right now, let's not get stuck in that same boat. We're already having a hard time with Necromancers who know how to play as it is.

    Armor of Earth should just have a lower cool down with lower boon duration and stacks. The core functionality is pretty strong, but 10 stacks of Stability is not necessary. Having it has a more active stun break, though, would be a lot more useful.

    Example of what I mean:
    Armor of Earth: Reduce the Stability stacks to 3 for 4 seconds; Protection reduced to 4 seconds; cool down reduced to 25 seconds.

    This change would snap a massive amount of cool down off; you wouldn't be fussing over whether or not you're going to get CC-chained by a Warrior or something, and you won't be paranoid of a Necromancer walking up to you like: "Oooooh, is that a pulsing Stability I see? Let me just-- eat that."

    Hello, welcome to the game; I main Elementalist, Vingam Securis.

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