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Rifles: another disappointment!


GW Noob.6038

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I recently boosted my thief to lvl80 with the intention of making her a sniper; I got the HPs to lvl my Deadeye rifle skill...then I equipped the 'Predator' rifle that I bought off the TP, and took it out for a test. I got her in the kneeling position, selected a target, and mashed the #3 button; the bullets traveled about 20 ft and disappeared and the "Out of Range" pronouncement came up! I was stunned...and bewildered. I nail shots like that a thousand times a day with my Ranger, so I know what '1500' looks like. Just to make sure I wasn't hallucinating, I logged my Ranger and positioned her exactly where my thief was...I nailed the shot, as I knew I would, and then selected an even more distant target, and nailed that one too. According to the wiki, a Deadeye thief in the kneeling position has the same range as a Ranger with a longbow...in real-world comparison, this is totally not true. Please, tell me I'm doing something wrong...!

@ArenaNet: you falsely claim that rifles have the same range as longbows. I spent approximately $110 of real money to buy a Legendary rifle off the TP based on your false claim...I want my money back!

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@Khailyn.6248 said:Youre not doing anything wrong. Rangers arrows arc which gives them extra distance before disappearing (especially while doing downward) while deadeye shots have a hard limit of where the red line is while kneeling. It's annoying but it's by design.

Yeah, but 1500 is 1500...that's what Anet says is the range of longbows, in the hands of a Ranger, and rifles, in the hands of a kneeling Deadeye thief. This is not the truth, though...in reality, the kneeling thief's rifle range is more like 1000-1100. Anet has stealth nerfed the rifle's range.

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@GW Noob.6038 said:

@Khailyn.6248 said:Youre not doing anything wrong. Rangers arrows arc which gives them extra distance before disappearing (especially while doing downward) while deadeye shots have a hard limit of where the red line is while kneeling. It's annoying but it's by design.

Yeah, but 1500 is 1500...that's what Anet says is the range of longbows, in the hands of a Ranger, and rifles, in the hands of a kneeling Deadeye thief. This is not the truth, though...in reality, the kneeling thief's rifle range is more like 1000-1100. Anet has stealth nerfed the rifle's range.

I dont know about any 'stealth nerfs' but it has been proven that deadeyes rifle range is 1200-1500 range while rangers are on paper 1500 but in reality can hit at 1800 or a bit over in ideal conditions. As someone that plays a lot of ranger and thief I feel the difference every time i switch characters. It's unfortunate and yes, irritating, but it is what it is. I'm not arguing with what youre saying, just saying the truth of how it works in the game. kneeling deadeye range =/= ranger longbow range.

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There are different kinds of ranged weapons. Those with a "ballistic" projectile (like the longbow in your example but also a shortbow and scepter) have a bonus range in which they will be able to hit something. This bonus range is not included in the skill tooltip.

The tooltip range for weaponskill is used for two things and was never the hard capped range in which you will be able to hit something:a) If outside that range, there will be a red line under the skill icon to indicate it if you target something thereb) Autoattacks only work as long as what you want to shoot at is inside of this range (even for ballistic arc weapons like those mentioned before)

If you go outside of the tooltip range so that the red line appears, you will still hit your target with a ballistic weapon. This "added range" varies for different weapons and also depends on the height difference between your target and you, while pistol and rifle bullets that fly in a straight line have no such bonus.

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@"XenoSpyro.1780" said:All bow projectiles except AOEs fly a bit further than the range indicator, including on warrior not counting Fan Fire. Net Shot also has this bug. Ele Staff autos probably have this as well.

Obviously, this bug is a feature, like all bugs.

Not sure if you are trying to be sarcastic or if you actually think it is a bug. It has been known for a long time that straighline fired bullets do not have this bonus range, and shots being classified as doing a ballistic arc have it. As I wrote, it is also not limited to bows, scepter shots on a mesmer do it too and you can clearly see the arc they fly in instead of a straight line. Exactly the same is the case with staff ele skill 1, you can see the fireball being hurled in a slight upwards angle and then doing a perfect arc and going down again.Imgur

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@Khailyn.6248 said:I dont know about any 'stealth nerfs' but it has been proven that deadeyes rifle range is 1200-1500 range while rangers are on paper 1500 but in reality can hit at 1800 or a bit over in ideal conditions. As someone that plays a lot of ranger and thief I feel the difference every time i switch characters. It's unfortunate and yes, irritating, but it is what it is. I'm not arguing with what youre saying, just saying the truth of how it works in the game. kneeling deadeye range =/= ranger longbow range.

Maybe you could explain what those numbers actually mean...what is your reference?

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@GW Noob.6038 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:I'd like to know what made you think a $110 rifle would be any different than one for 2s. And by that fact you don't deserve a refund!!!

Post the 2s rifle that does as much damage as the Predator.

Well, we aren’t talking about damage are we, we’re talking range and the difference between arcing projectiles and straight ones.Functionally, a 2s Rifle works exactly the same as a Legendary one.Damage wise, an Ascended Rifle is the same as a Legendary one.

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@GW Noob.6038 said:

@"Khailyn.6248" said:I dont know about any 'stealth nerfs' but it has been proven that deadeyes rifle range is 1200-1500 range while rangers are on paper 1500 but in reality can hit at 1800 or a bit over in ideal conditions. As someone that plays a lot of ranger and thief I feel the difference every time i switch characters. It's unfortunate and yes, irritating, but it is what it is. I'm not arguing with what youre saying, just saying the truth of how it works in the game. kneeling deadeye range =/= ranger longbow range.

Maybe you could explain what those numbers actually mean...what is your reference?

Simple testing in game honestly and the GW2 wiki.

My rangers Shortbow for example has a range of 900, but in actuality i can hit targets that are at a range of 1200 due to how the weapons projectile arcs when fired if i position myself correctly.

Eles staffs(on some skills), All longbows, and all shortbows function the same way, their weapons have an arc and can hit targets that are out of their base weapon range if players know how to position themselves.

Rifles/pistols on the other hand do not arc they travel in a straight line, as such their maximum range is exactly what the skill states their maximum range is.

Its annoying when swapping classes from ranger/ele to another class, yes, but they had to make it so rifles werent better than bows for gameplay purpose. Bows have greater range if used properly, but rifles/pistols have a faster attack range than bows, due to the "draw" animation that all bows use. So each weapon has its up and downs.

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@Dante.1763 said:Simple testing in game honestly and the GW2 wiki.

My rangers Shortbow for example has a range of 900, but in actuality i can hit targets that are at a range of 1200 due to how the weapons projectile arcs when fired if i position myself correctly.

What exactly is your frame of reference? There are no landscape features to use as a measuring device...so, what are you basing your statements on?

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@GW Noob.6038 said:

@Dante.1763 said:Simple testing in game honestly and the GW2 wiki.

My rangers Shortbow for example has a range of 900, but in actuality i can hit targets that are at a range of 1200 due to how the weapons projectile arcs when fired if i position myself correctly.

What exactly is your frame of reference? There are no landscape features to use as a measuring device...so, what are you basing your statements on?

Look on bows projectile how its set it arcs wich lead to hit longer while rifle s projectile is straight lined it don arc. Then it arc it hits further

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@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Look on bows projectile how its set it arcs wich lead to hit longer while rifle s projectile is straight lined it don arc. Then it arc it hits further

The arc of the projectile has nothing to do with the range...it's simply an animation tied to that particular projectile. If the range where shorter then the arc would be steeper. The official wiki states that the longbow and the rifle have the exact same range...obviously this is not true; it is a falsehood, plain and simple.

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@GW Noob.6038 said:

@"Laila Lightness.8742" said:Look on bows projectile how its set it arcs wich lead to hit longer while rifle s projectile is straight lined it don arc. Then it arc it hits further

The arc of the projectile has nothing to do with the range...it's simply an animation tied to that particular projectile. If the range where shorter then the arc would be steeper. The official wiki states that the longbow and the rifle have the exact same range...obviously this is not true; it is a falsehood, plain and simple.

No, it isnt, you didnt bother to read some of the skills "Notes" did you?

"The projectile flies in a small arc and can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range."

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Long_Range_Shot

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Well, with Rifle on Thief, you can kneel at even 0-200 Range away from a target on completely flat ground and get "obstructed".

Since the projectiles travel in a straight line, and you are kneeling down to be closer to the ground, the slightest bump in terrain, actually visible or not, blocks the projectile and your attacks whiff, meanwhile Rangers can hit you for an unblockable 20k with a single skill from 1800+ range.When taking a camp in WvW on Rifle Deadeye for example, the real challenge is to circle and kite around each NPC until you find a spot to actually hit them, without your bullets magically disappearing due to obstructed. Don't even try to shoot uphill with a Rifle.It's a feature.

Range is by far not the only issue when comparing the two.

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@"Asum.4960" said:Well, with Rifle on Thief, you can kneel at even 0-200 Range away from a target on completely flat ground and get "obstructed".

Since the projectiles travel in a straight line, and you are kneeling down to be closer to the ground, the slightest bump in terrain, actually visible or not, blocks the projectile and your attacks whiff, meanwhile Rangers can hit you for an unblockable 20k with a single skill from 1800+ range.When taking a camp in WvW on Rifle Deadeye for example, the real challenge is to circle and kite around each NPC until you find a spot to actually hit them, without your bullets magically disappearing due to obstructed. Don't even try to shoot uphill with a Rifle.It's a feature.

Range is by far not the only issue when comparing the two.

I get "obstructed" with both longbow and shortbow in wvw under the same curcumstances you describe for rifle. Its not a bow vs rifle issue, its a game issue.

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@GW Noob.6038 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:Look on bows projectile how its set it arcs wich lead to hit longer while rifle s projectile is straight lined it don arc. Then it arc it hits further

The arc of the projectile has nothing to do with the range...it's simply an animation tied to that particular projectile. If the range where shorter then the arc would be steeper. The official wiki states that the longbow and the rifle have the exact same range...obviously this is not true; it is a falsehood, plain and simple.

In GW2 the arc of a projectile is more than just an animation.

You can test this yourself by finding a stationary target and moving far enough away that a small red bar appears on your weapon skill.

Do this on your ranger with a longbow and on your deadeye, kneeled with a rifle.

The arcing arrow will travel 1500 units and then continue to fly while arcing down hitting the target.The bullet will travel straight for 1500 units and then dissapear right away.

Thus arcing projectiles can hit targets outside the attackrange of the skill.

Arcing projectiles do not travel forever however they do not disapear right away like bullets do when the range treshold is reached.

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