Speculation on new Diviners Stat set — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Speculation on new Diviners Stat set

Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited December 24, 2018 in Guardian

Full Wanderer = 42% boon duration with Concentration as a minor. Diviners will have concentration as a major

Diviners is POWER/CONC with pre/fer. If you wear full set ...

If concentration scales linearly with it's stat, Concentration as a major will give 84%.
With precision as a minor, you get 35% ... with Right Hand Strength, Retribution and Righteous Instincts, you get 100% Crit rate, no boons needed
With Virtue, you get 100% retal boon duration with lots of retal access on active Virtues
WIth ferocity as a minor and Retribution trait, I get 883 ... full zerker gives 961 ...
Your ability to self stack might is really great (3 from VOJ, lots ofrom Righteous Instincts)

Run Durability runes if you want the defensive and max out your boon duration to 99% ... run the Scholars for all out DPS.

Food will be Power/Fer

I smell a nerf even before or soon after a release. All this seems really over the top.

If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

Comments

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    Power guardian doesn't really work with firebrand. Not saying its worthless, but its meh at best even with full berserker gear.

    Not saying diviner firebrand wont do any dps, it will. But i don't see it doing any game breaking dps

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2018

    I was thinking more of a core Guardian build ... Virtue/Rad/something

    Diviners might be nice for a FB quickness build.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • In the relevant revenant thread I speculated that we might see boons get cut in half after Diviners gets released. As part of the boon overhaul in the future.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For FB support you benefit more from condi damage. Power builds (DH and core) will have to give up some ferocity. I do not think diviner stats will be very useful for guardian.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    In the relevant revenant thread I speculated that we might see boons get cut in half after Diviners gets released. As part of the boon overhaul in the future.

    yeah, that's the kind of epic nerf I'm expecting ... I don't think Anet ever anticipated people maxing duration on so many boons.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    In the relevant revenant thread I speculated that we might see boons get cut in half after Diviners gets released. As part of the boon overhaul in the future.

    I do not think something this radical is required and well screw balance significantly.

    There are three main boon that need focus: alacrity, quickness and might (25 stacks). As long as no one build can do all three then any further changes in PvE are unnecessary.

    For PvP, they just need to cut down might, that no one class can stack more than 10-12 stacks and probably reduce protection uptime for some classes.

    I do not think more is needed.

  • cat.8975cat.8975 Member ✭✭✭

    Diviner's wont have much use for Guard.

    Power quickbrand will only ever be better than condi in full zerk (and only if you can take advantage of slaying sigils/potions + short fight durations). If you're dealing with longer fights and actually need extra BD, you'll just run condi instead. Apart from firebrand, boon duration is a relatively dead stat for an offensive guard build.

    I research the game numbers and do wiki stuff sometimes. If you have any questions about how damage is calculated, feel free to ask me (easier to hit me up on reddit @ towelcat though)

  • won't full diviner's mean 12k HP which means if someone looks at you sideways you gonna die. Unless your name is Arken.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2018

    I think what I'm getting at here isn't that it's the best; it's that it's pushing everything to the max and "things at the max" seems to be what's getting Anet's attention ... their negative attention. Hey, if it's not changed and I can max my offensive skills, I won't complain.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2018

    You're support, so it seems to me more adequate concentration and healing power or armor : a bit like the support chrono jail we tried to equip with berserker/assassin and finally see DPS decrease patch after patch (and support too, lol) to be barely superior to harrier or minstrel in instance, and viper druid too.
    Or you're DPS and 4 stats sets are a big loss; except viper because we don't really have choice.
    At least this is my opinion with the Guardian in Pve. And because viper + FB runes is already a better "hybrid" than berserker + boon duration.

    In pvp I don't look at Guard or DH, but FB play with mender or harrier because of all the sources of heals.
    In WvW, once again or you're support or you're not. In roaming, radiance guard, this is often a better balance to look for Boon duration in traits, runes, sigils and food and Toughness/vitality in the equipment rather than the other way.
    Some Diviners jewelry will help, but imo a full set or cap 100% duration will not be "OP" as a mix Valkyrie/zerk/marauder/etc guard can already get a good retaliation uptime, 100% precision with more power, ferocity and armor.

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    In the relevant revenant thread I speculated that we might see boons get cut in half after Diviners gets released. As part of the boon overhaul in the future.

    yeah, that's the kind of epic nerf I'm expecting ... I don't think Anet ever anticipated people maxing duration on so many boons.

    My mind went a different direction: specialization in specific boon duration in runes (and maybe sigils) instead of nerfing skills.

    Most runes were nerfed to 15 or 25% boon duration while specialized runes went up to 50% duration of a single boon. I would expect the few 25% ones to be further nerfed while maybe adding more that 50% of a single boon added in the future.

    More runes like firebrand could also be added. The last 10% on durability changed to 20% resistance duration so that it only gives 15% to all boons +20% resistance.

    @cat.8975 said:
    Diviner's wont have much use for Guard.

    Power quickbrand will only ever be better than condi in full zerk (and only if you can take advantage of slaying sigils/potions + short fight durations). If you're dealing with longer fights and actually need extra BD, you'll just run condi instead. Apart from firebrand, boon duration is a relatively dead stat for an offensive guard build.

    https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/a8v9a8/sc_qt_cm100_shattered_observatory_firebrand/

    Im not sure of the exact set up but i think new stats plus scholar might be better. I don't think you can abuse potions and sigils too much there and power was still better there. For raids, I suspect both will be viable depending on the boss.

  • cat.8975cat.8975 Member ✭✭✭

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @cat.8975 said:
    Diviner's wont have much use for Guard.

    Power quickbrand will only ever be better than condi in full zerk (and only if you can take advantage of slaying sigils/potions + short fight durations). If you're dealing with longer fights and actually need extra BD, you'll just run condi instead. Apart from firebrand, boon duration is a relatively dead stat for an offensive guard build.

    https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/a8v9a8/sc_qt_cm100_shattered_observatory_firebrand/

    Im not sure of the exact set up but i think new stats plus scholar might be better. I don't think you can abuse potions and sigils too much there and power was still better there. For raids, I suspect both will be viable depending on the boss.

    You can use Scarlet Slaying on Arkk, and you can abuse Impact sigil on all the bosses there. The fights are also short enough that power wins out due to having no rampup time. You only need ~12% BD for permaquick (if you have alac), and that's already covered by the 15%+ from the fractal potion conversion.

    In raids, the fights/phases are usually long enough that condi will be equal or better (VG may be a sole exception here).

    I research the game numbers and do wiki stuff sometimes. If you have any questions about how damage is calculated, feel free to ask me (easier to hit me up on reddit @ towelcat though)

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I have a question: should I wait for the Diviner gear, or use Harrier's stats for my Firebrand, because I'm a little confused about Concentration thingy.

    Seek, and you shall find.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I dont think diviners will have +heal, so I would probably go Harrier for a Support Firebrand. But at this point just wait until the release to know for sure.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    I dont think diviners will have +heal, so I would probably go Harrier for a Support Firebrand. But at this point just wait until the release to know for sure.

    alright, thanks!

    Seek, and you shall find.

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A small reminder that PvE wanderer's is completely different stat combination then PvP one. So don't be so sure PvE diviner's will be same as pvp one.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZeftheWicked.3076 said:
    A small reminder that PvE wanderer's is completely different stat combination then PvP one. So don't be so sure PvE diviner's will be same as pvp one.

    Considering the statement and changes that came with the announcement it's pretty safe to assume the stats will be the same.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭

    So, anyone running it now for quickness/fury/aegis time?

  • Ojimaru.8970Ojimaru.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Considering that the stat distribution is the same as Viper's, we know that a full set of Diviner's gear gets you 1172 Concentration, or 78.3% Boon Duration. Excluding stats from runes, Potent Lucent Oil will get you another 54.15 Concentration, nudging up to 81.7% Boon Duration. If you're in Fractals, you can add in another 15% Boon Duration from Mist Mobility Potion, which would then be enough to round all your Quickness buffs up to 100% bonus duration. This will let you run Power food and Scholar runes for more personal DPS.

    Another option would be to run Runes of the Pack for the 15% Boon duration, plus the 6-piece bonus that gives your party Might, Fury, and Swiftness for 10s (base). With this you can swap out Shoulder, Gloves, and Boot slots for Berserkers, and can save on consumables with standard Sharpening Stones.

    Once set up, I expect you'll be using the standard core Guardian Power DPS rotation, and using your Mantra of Potence and Mantra of Solace every recharge.

    "Thief? How rude! I'm a Procurement Specialist." -Glenn Gynnafante

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ^^ So true

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAse5elsAhqhYrQwRIQTEH4DVdACgzN3hh4Iabg1dQB-jBSBQBXRZwVV/Zf7PQhnAwZUC2RleA4kA0P9DkCIilRA-e

    This is what I have so far (just imagine Commander is Diviner)... It gives the %100 crit rate with retal and burning foes (easy), 100% boon duration. Admittedly, it's got more defensive effects than I've needed in a group setting (but it's great solo) so I'm moving to:

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAse7ensADNCjtCBOCBkCjF8Bz6CsuGU7h0T6LtaAEAOXA-jBSBQB3T/AR2fAAnEgLq8jkKBpwTA4gqrQJVKIFQELjA-e

    Much more offensive, lots of access to retaliation, stability, quickness. 100% boon duration. I'm not sure how people are thinking this isn't THE offensive stat set for a Guardian; the big problem with this build is that you exceed crit chance a significant amount and you have base HP. It would be interesting to see how capped retal/crit/quickness would fair against the currently accepted meta.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Ojimaru.8970Ojimaru.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm building towards a Diviner Firebrand mainly because I've found that Chrono in it's current state is far too unreliable in Fractals. There are a whole host of reasons a player won't be in your Wells at the right time to get the buffs--now more than ever--and getting screwed out of Quickness and/or Alacrity for extended periods of time, if not for the majority of the fight. Firebrand gives more applications in shorter intervals, so even if a player, for example, gets bumped out of the area of effect by Social Awkwardness, there are still other sources of Quickness to be gained.

    "Thief? How rude! I'm a Procurement Specialist." -Glenn Gynnafante

  • Ojimaru.8970Ojimaru.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Right as I completed the Heroic Dragonsblood Greatsword, it just occurred to me that I haven't really given much thought to weapon choices...

    • Having a Sword main hand seems to be the most obvious choice, so far. It's a decent Power DPS weapon since the balance patch, and its Symbol gives Fury.
    • The Symbol of Vengeance from Axe also gives Fury, which could make it a pretty decent weapon swap. It's Power scaling was similar to Sword, last I checked, while also being able to benefit from One-Handed Might, so DPS shouldn't be too bad. Having this would certainly push your Fury uptime if your group is lacking.
    • Greatsword is of course the best option for personal DPS, although Symbol of Wrath probably won't benefit that many players.
    • And here is where I go "Hmmm," when considering a spot for the Hammer. I'm not sure whether Glacial Heart would be worth taking over Empowering Might, but I do know that Protection goes a long way to helping a group get a smooth run.
    • If Might is also lacking in the group, Scepter may be another option.

    "Thief? How rude! I'm a Procurement Specialist." -Glenn Gynnafante

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    I'm not sure this is a good set for guard.
    I mean, 4 stats and concentration as a major stat ?
    In pve FB didn't need that much boon duration to get perma quickness, not at all in fractal, and if you go full support it's a pity to avoid healing power as FB* is just one of the best healer and without radiance/zeal dps is close to zero. DH either, it's a big dps loss only because you can't manage retailation without boon duration.
    In WvW, well, may be some pieces of armor or weapons, but Radiance guard already works strong with 30% or 40% boon duration from runes, sigils and food, I guess it's a balance, a question of taste.

    Diviner set IMO would be better to chrono and Renegade (+33% precision with full endurance and fury 40%, ren doesn't need precision) , in a power burst compo.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019

    The diviner's stat does exactly what I suspect; giving freedom to build a respectable DPS and taking advantage of boon duration. I think Ojimaru was on to something with Runes of the Pack ... made the swap yesterday; without any details, I can say it's pretty fun to see my Guardian run around with permanent Fury, Swiftness, Retaliation and 25 stacks of might. Once I get more comfortable, I will make the switch to FB and add permanent quickness to that.

    The point is that the right combination of Diviners and other things allows for maxing more than just boon duration to achieve perma quickness on FB. Just concluding Diviners isn't a good set because we can already achieve some boons perma status is thinking tiny; the Diviners set is for bigger thinking; getting 100% boon duration opens up LOTS of builds to take advantage of all the boons we have access to. I can see a few reasons that's not impressive to some people; it's not optimal in raids where other classes buff you. Also, for reasons that elude me, many players don't care about their OW performance.

    If I've done my homework right, this is it (imagine Grieving is Diviner):

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRApe7ensADNCjtCBOCBkCjF8Bz6CsuGUVDgAw5aPkeSbpA-jBSBQBXV9HA8EAIy+Do8kAgWlgjV5jIVC9U9DkCIilRA-e

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    The diviner's stat does exactly what I suspect; giving freedom to build a respectable DPS and taking advantage of boon duration. I think Ojimaru was on to something with Runes of the Pack ... made the swap yesterday; without any details, I can say it's pretty fun to see my Guardian run around with permanent Fury, Swiftness, Retaliation and 25 stacks of might. Once I get more comfortable, I will make the switch to FB and add permanent quickness to that.

    The point is that the right combination of Diviners and other things allows for maxing more than just boon duration to achieve perma quickness on FB. Just concluding Diviners isn't a good set because we can already achieve some boons perma status is thinking tiny; the Diviners set is for bigger thinking; getting 100% boon duration opens up LOTS of builds to take advantage of all the boons we have access to. I can see a few reasons that's not impressive to some people; it's not optimal in raids where other classes buff you. Also, for reasons that elude me, many players don't care about their OW performance.

    If I've done my homework right, this is it (imagine Grieving is Diviner):

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRApe7ensADNCjtCBOCBkCjF8Bz6CsuGUVDgAw5aPkeSbpA-jBSBQBXV9HA8EAIy+Do8kAgWlgjV5jIVC9U9DkCIilRA-e

    Hi is this for PVE? Because for WvW 2335 armor and 12K hp is scary.

    EDIT: ok i see its for PVE....nevermind then

  • Ojimaru.8970Ojimaru.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019

    Finally finished my set last night (Diviner's with Berserker Shoulders, Gloves, and Boots; Runes of the Pack and Fractal Mobility Potion sets me to 96% Boon Duration; Sword/Shield and Greatsword, both with Sigils of Force and Accuracy; Power DPS food and utilities). Took it for a spin in Fractals with my static. Personal observations as follows:

    • I was using Honor instead of Zeal or Virtues for Empowering Might, and may stick with it going forwards. Protector's Impact gives some Protection each time you use Restoring Reprieve, Empowering Might works consistently to generate about 15 Might to the group, and Writ of Persistence makes your Symbol boons far more reliable in messy fights.
    • Managed to maintain perfect Quickness uptime in most fights, perfect Fury uptime in fights where people can stay inside Symbol of Blades. Might, as mentioned above, remained around 15-18 stacks from myself. We ran with a Mercy Scourge, so they helped with about 5-6 stacks.
    • As far as DPS goes, my fumbling attempts got me about 7-9k DPS on the less annoying fights. This in itself is 2-4 times higher than my Commander Chrono.
    • Despite what I mentioned above, there is no need to go Sword and Axe for Fury generation. With Writ of Persistence, you can generate enough Fury with either one to last the duration of a weapon swap.
    • I may drop the Shield for a Focus, eventhough that will likely cost me some Bar Break and utility. Shield of Absorption is invaluable for We Bleed Fire, for example.
    • That said, I am considering swapping out the Greatsword for a Scepter for more Might generation.

    The lack of Alacrity is definitely something of significance. You can either look for a source of Alacrity, or adjust your group composition to use builds that aren't heavily reliant on Alacrity, e.g. Renegades, Thieves, Mirage, etc.

    "Thief? How rude! I'm a Procurement Specialist." -Glenn Gynnafante

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Runes of the Fireworks. More uptime on the boons, less wasted precision if you are getting perma retaliation in combination with radiance traits. We love that movement speed too!

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Runes of the Fireworks. More uptime on the boons, less wasted precision if you are getting perma retaliation in combination with radiance traits. We love that movement speed too!

    probably one of the best if not best rune for core guard or DH

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Spartacus.3192 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Runes of the Fireworks. More uptime on the boons, less wasted precision if you are getting perma retaliation in combination with radiance traits. We love that movement speed too!

    probably one of the best if not best rune for core guard or DH

    I dunno, I like how they look and am using them on my Necro, but why would I give up Ferocity from Scholar Runes on a build that keeps at 100% crit chance, nevermind the 5% bonus damage.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2019

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Spartacus.3192 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Runes of the Fireworks. More uptime on the boons, less wasted precision if you are getting perma retaliation in combination with radiance traits. We love that movement speed too!

    probably one of the best if not best rune for core guard or DH

    I dunno, I like how they look and am using them on my Necro, but why would I give up Ferocity from Scholar Runes on a build that keeps at 100% crit chance, nevermind the 5% bonus damage.

    not all builds keep at 100% crit chance. Also, not all players are capable of maintaining the requirement on Scholars to get the 5% damage bonus. On the other hand, Firework Runes work ... always. Just depends what you're doing and who you are.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Spartacus.3192 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Runes of the Fireworks. More uptime on the boons, less wasted precision if you are getting perma retaliation in combination with radiance traits. We love that movement speed too!

    probably one of the best if not best rune for core guard or DH

    I dunno, I like how they look and am using them on my Necro, but why would I give up Ferocity from Scholar Runes on a build that keeps at 100% crit chance, nevermind the 5% bonus damage.

    I guess i should have stated i'm talking about WvW here. This is just a much better version of traveler runes. I don't do fractals/raids etc so can't really discuss that.

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