Retribution/Devastation/Herald

So one thing that has opened up recently is the possibility of running Retribution instead of Invocation since it has been updated for the PoF powercreep.

The general idea is you run shield for condi cleanse instead of cleansing channel, and the stability on dodge makes up for less stun breaks. The result is a Rev that sacrifices some mobility and burst for more sustain and better utility. Here's an example build to start: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAsemn3guNSuQ7JRboVlsP0rS4IaWJ4EdsklNFyegJ8hqvIH/oNAH4BA-jpxHQB+7EAAgDBQAfAA2rMgyOCAjY/BA

Has anyone gotten anywhere with this?

I've been curious about this too. I don't really run power Herald, but seems like it could give it a nice niche. Would you say Devastation is worth taking over Invocation?

Only thing I see being a potential issue is that Planar Protection may have anti-synergy with Glint heal since it applies weakness and acts as projectile denial. I run PP on my core Rev spec and it works well, but it's not a liability when running without Glint.

i'll pick shield again when ANET stops it from being rooted.....until then offhand sword is just way better.

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

Only thing I see being a potential issue is that Planar Protection may have anti-synergy with Glint heal since it applies weakness and acts as projectile denial. I run PP on my core Rev spec and it works well, but it's not a liability when running without Glint.

This is an interesting comment because unfortunately for herald it's never been clear-cut what "on heal" and "on elite" means.

Negative synergy is created with many runes and traits (such as Planar Protection) that could be fantastic if pressing your Facet of Light counted as using a heal skill (as you are clearly pressing the heal skill button, so why not?). Rune of Air, Rune of the Herald, etc- could all be a reasonable pick if only the defensive effects could be procced without using your consume skill. It worked the same way with the old Bolster Fortification trait- you didn't get the protection until you used the actual Glint heal.

This inconsistent behavior extends to the elite skill Facet of Chaos. With runes of leadership and surging, you can get the proc just by pressing the facet, which is why "on elite" runes have been popular and usable on herald since the beginning of time. However, the trait Expose Defenses does not refresh until the consume skill is used. It's a pretty bad trait as it is and it'd be better if the vulnerability proc refreshed by single pressing Facet of Chaos.

Obviously I'd like it if all traits and rune procs worked by single pressing the facet, as they still have their internal cooldown to get past. It seems that the runes work by just using Ventari's Will which is on a, what, 3 second cooldown? So I don't think it'd be too crazy to make the procs work with facet presses as well.

SORRY OP, on the thought of your actual topic, please forgive my digression:

I think it's an interesting concept but I would drop Devastation before dropping Invocation. I've been trying the new Retribution line and I really like it, but I still feel that dropping Invocation is too much defensive potential lost with the stunbreak and condi cleanse, plus the free 40% crit chance. I have, however, tried base rev with all 3 lines (Jalis/Shiro) and for the first time ever didn't feel terrible playing it, so take that as you will :P

Yeah core Rev actually might be better than renegade now. If charged mists was less clunky it would even be a viable build instead of just meme.

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Yeah core Rev actually might be better than renegade now. If charged mists was less clunky it would even be a viable build instead of just meme.

I've been roaming with a Dire/Viper core build and use Charged Mists, and I really enjoy the trait. I love being able to double RS or UA and still have leftover energy. I'm a little less conscientious about my energy usage and now that Steadfast Rejuvenation incentives upkeep skill usage, I actually use them a lot more. What would personally help me more than a change to CM is for Embrace the Darkness to be instant cast.

So here is a less meme, actually pretty dang good build with these traits. This is pretty much just a Variant of meta Herald that trades some boon stacking and damage for far better sustain. It's IMO better than meta when you don't have a support.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAscmn3guNSuQ7JRboVlsP0rS4IaWJ4EdsklNFS9F54H2DsgPsNAH4BA-jpxHQBBb/hAeCAuWZA/dIAAwDAQZHBAA

Some usage points:-Rune of resistance goes off whenever you use dragon facet. You don't actually have to use the consume skill. This is the primary thing that makes the build work. You can also use facet of nature to increase the resistance to a max of 6~7 seconds every 20 seconds.-When you don't have resistance up, you can actually tank condi stacks by using Impossible odds and running away ( Heals you due to steadfast, and condis have reduced duration ) then just jump back into the fight once you are back up to decent health.-Try to proc dome of the mists with enchanted daggers and use it for damage. It pulses weakness and you do 10% more damage to weakened foes so Daggers+IO+Auto= your main auto burst. You also do NOT want to proc this with facet of light so always use it with shiro heal. This takes some practice but the reward is worth it because it's 4 seconds of getting to beat people down while being immune to projectiles which actually allows you to 1v1 soulbeasts.

I was trying this http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQRAsc8un3gWNSuQrJRbo/ksP0gS4I6QJ4EdrkFZlRNgFigNmdCyu6tDH-jJxHQByrMQAPBAA4BAIu9HAATerrible DPS, but you can survive sometimes. Still pretty vurneable to bursts and stuns. I was dueling core warrior "standart" build and he have still better sustain.Notes: vengeful hammers heals scales terribly. but are good with Steadfast Rejuvenation.

I wanted actualy use a shield(and gets some heals from it->thats why menders. but it doesnt heal anyway.

Yeah, don't use menders on Rev in hopes for self healing. The only skills with good scaling on heals for this class are all on Ventari, and to a lesser degree Kalla ult. Just use Marauder or if you want to mix things up Demolisher. Some builds can use Paladin. Any non-support Rev build investing into healing power is 99% of the time going to be wasted stats better spent on more toughness or vitality.

One way to see this is compare Avatar stats to Paladin.

With Avatar, Healing from steadfast increases from 67 to 73. This is about an 8% increase.With paladin, direct damage is reduced by about 20%.

So the only reason to ever run healing power with steadfast is in a strict condi meta which we are not in.

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Yeah, don't use menders on Rev in hopes for self healing. The only skills with good scaling on heals for this class are all on Ventari, and to a lesser degree Kalla ult. Just use Marauder or if you want to mix things up Demolisher. Some builds can use Paladin. Any non-support Rev build investing into healing power is 99% of the time going to be wasted stats better spent on more toughness or vitality.

One way to see this is compare Avatar stats to Paladin.

With Avatar, Healing from steadfast increases from 67 to 73. This is about an 8% increase.With paladin, direct damage is reduced by about 20%.

So the only reason to ever run healing power with steadfast is in a strict condi meta which we are not in.

Yeah I get it, I tought if I use Shield#5 with heal power I hoped for some heals, well :D nothing actualy happend.Marauder is safe bet.

tanky herald I am finding to be decently viable. Eldar's respite, dwayna runes, hardening persistance and steadfast rejuvination provide some really good synergy. Basically just camp facets without consuming them unless you absolutely need them. You get a lot of rejuvination and prot uptime.