an idea to make thieves more undesirable

to the DEVs, i present to you,

please make thieves' INITIATIVE outside of combat starts at ZERO, to make it inline with other professions mechanics like adrenaline, life force, astral force,

and initiative will decay like adrenaline when out of combat

in this change we will have an assurance that thieves will stay more engaged in combat, rather than running away from opponents.

and in this proposition, thieves cannot spam hard hitting skills at the start of engagement like vault, three round burst etc.

since they have already made this work to lead attacks, i would like this to be implemented in initiative system.

PS. for compensating the said changes, NO Cool Down on weapon swap is given

edit: additional undesirable nerf

all stealth skills (across all classes) will have a max duration of 3s and CANNOT be stacked, and there will be a revealed debuff of 1s everytime you exit stealth(so no more surprise attacks from stealth stacking malicious backstab builds) and no more stealth stacking in general

Thank you

Doesn't astral force only decay when you use CA and not outside of it?

Don‘t even joke about that.

@DemonSeed.3528 said:Doesn't astral force only decay when you use CA and not outside of it?

only adrenaline decays, that's why i stated it

@Derenaya.3479 said:Don‘t even joke about that.

it will happen, mark my wordssssssssss

Not sure if this is troll post, if so nice! If not than making the class useless and never used would prob not be a decision arenet would prob think is not to desirable for business, tho I’d have to wonder somtimes

Maybe nurf it’s damage by 90% give other classes more powercrept mobility and damage so their further outperforming the thief at its own job, oh and make thief have half the endurance of other classes to to go along with the low hp, this way cry babies who get ganked by one won’t be so butt hurt and whine about it’s very existence haha

@"Oldgrimm.8521" said:

DON'T GIVE THEM IDEAS!!!

its going to be a good change, since no one wants to play against a thief who resets and OOC during combat,

so we can penalize thieves who OOC, via no initiative out of combat, and initiative decay when trying to escape from engagement.

this will not affect PvE greatly since thieves just auto attack, and we dont have initial burst like other classes

This Will make thief overall very Bad, but won't solve one shot stealth attack proplem :'D this whole post is pointless

Anything that involves killing a entire class just so you have a easier time is bad for the game, and should outright be ignored.

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:This Will make thief overall very Bad, but won't solve one shot stealth attack proplem :'D this whole post is pointless

by the time my idea will be implemented, i already have a rework(nerf) on malicious backstab (infamous oneshot build)

all stealth skills (across all classes) will have a max duration of 3s and CANNOT be stacked, and there will be a revealed debuff of 1s everytime you exit stealth

this means all skills, utilities etc will be reworked, so no surprise attacks from stacking stealth

@"Oldgrimm.8521" said:its going to be a good change, since no one wants to play against a thief who resets and OOC during combat,

so we can penalize thieves who OOC, via no initiative out of combat, and initiative decay when trying to escape from engagement.

this will not affect PvE greatly since thieves just auto attack, and we dont have initial burst like other classes

They have to reset because over last few yrs thief has been nurfed to the ground because arenet pushing deadeye and because of cry babies,their too weak to stay and duel

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Oldgrimm.8521" said:its going to be a good change, since no one wants to play against a thief who resets and OOC during combat,

so we can penalize thieves who OOC, via no initiative out of combat, and initiative decay when trying to escape from engagement.

this will not affect PvE greatly since thieves just auto attack, and we dont have initial burst like other classes

They have to reset because over last few yrs thief has been nurfed to the ground because arenet pushing deadeye and because of cry babies,their too weak to stay and duel

not enough nerfs, since they say its not fun to play against a thief that resets the fight and comes back, in this proposed changes, thieves will be more committed to a fight

no more resets, no more stealth spam, good old hard core toe to toe fighting

@"Oldgrimm.8521" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Oldgrimm.8521" said:its going to be a good change, since no one wants to play against a thief who resets and OOC during combat,

so we can penalize thieves who OOC, via no initiative out of combat, and initiative decay when trying to escape from engagement.

this will not affect PvE greatly since thieves just auto attack, and we dont have initial burst like other classes

They have to reset because over last few yrs thief has been nurfed to the ground because arenet pushing deadeye and because of cry babies,their too weak to stay and duel

Core and DD need substantial buffs to realistically stand a chance at a tie to toe fight, but in reality us humans are selfish and Whiny lol so people who get out played by thief and somehow lose to the weaker thief spec excluding deadey cant handle that they lost(whiny) and people who main other classes will rally for any class they dislike to be nurfed to the ground so they can stomp it into the ground every fight with zero regard for the players that injoy the class. Which is why as bad as erenanet is at balancing listing to its community about how to deal with balancing is very bad

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Oldgrimm.8521" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Oldgrimm.8521" said:its going to be a good change, since no one wants to play against a thief who resets and OOC during combat,

so we can penalize thieves who OOC, via no initiative out of combat, and initiative decay when trying to escape from engagement.

this will not affect PvE greatly since thieves just auto attack, and we dont have initial burst like other classes

They have to reset because over last few yrs thief has been nurfed to the ground because arenet pushing deadeye and because of cry babies,their too weak to stay and duel

Yes nurf it more so it’s useless and u can have fun stomping it with zero challenge, it’s a +1 and decap cuz it’s fast but weak at fighting,even weaker these days, remove resetting and ur just a free bag of loot as a thief,awsome!

Op, u sound like ur having bad times with thiefs xD thiefs are really good only VS mesmers, or non s/d elementalists. Rest is skill match up or counter against thief(more of a 2nd) I would like to see, how thiefs would escape all these guardians and rangers without initiative.Look at the name of these, resource:initiative. Which means u got some initiative over ur enemy, that's the whole point of thief.De is stupid, it's not any secret, but if ur crying to thiefs that spammed u with vault - slowest animation attack of a thief, than sorry ur problems are clear l2p issuesEdit. I'm actually not sure if ur kidding or not

@Safandula.8723 said:Op, u sound like ur having bad times with thiefs xD thiefs are really good only VS mesmers, or non s/d elementalists. Rest is skill match up or counter against thief(more of a 2nd) I would like to see, how thiefs would escape all these guardians and rangers without initiative.Look at the name of these, resource:initiative. Which means u got some initiative over ur enemy, that's the whole point of thief.De is stupid, it's not any secret, but if ur crying to thiefs that spammed u with vault - slowest animation attack of a thief, than sorry ur problems are clear l2p issuesEdit. I'm actually not sure if ur kidding or not

if you'll see my post history throughout the years, i always advocate for thief buffs,

but now i want some nerfs and changes for the better, if stealth and initiative is the main concern for balance, then its needed to be butchered/decimated

and im serious about this agenda

I agree with stealth changes to be less cheese but deff not initiative changes unles we’re talking making preparedness baseline

you mean take away thief's uniqueness and make them as bland as other classes? no thanks.

@"Oldgrimm.8521" said:

@Safandula.8723 said:Op, u sound like ur having bad times with thiefs xD thiefs are really good only VS mesmers, or non s/d elementalists. Rest is skill match up or counter against thief(more of a 2nd) I would like to see, how thiefs would escape all these guardians and rangers without initiative.Look at the name of these, resource:initiative. Which means u got some initiative over ur enemy, that's the whole point of thief.De is stupid, it's not any secret, but if ur crying to thiefs that spammed u with vault - slowest animation attack of a thief, than sorry ur problems are clear l2p issuesEdit. I'm actually not sure if ur kidding or not

Yea I agree stealth is the problem. DE access to stealth is nuts, but anet doesn't care to change anything about it, and as we know their amazing balancing ideas(tbh I don't know any other game, where devs has so little idea how to make balance) I guess it will stay that way for some time. But if you want to remove daredevil d/p access to stealth, than it would need some buffs, instead of nerfs xd.Nerfing initiative - the unique system, that thief is based on is not a solution. If u see thief spamming 1 ability over and over (vault as u mentioned) he's out of resources, time to punish.I'm not the guy that's saying over and over, thief needs buffs, but thief doesn't deserve any more nerfs. (mby this fking dagger storm, and stealth on dodge)

lol quality post

I know the OP has been salty about Lead Attacks, but the sad thing is, given thief's change history, this actually has a slight ring of truth to it, however unlikely it'll be.

The whole point of Thieves conceptually is that they pick and choose their fights and can enter and exit combat at will.

Very good idea, they should nerf initiative, so you could not stack stealth and all when ooc, this way you can still use stealth attack for engage by using skills like BP, HEal skill, shadow refugee, shadow refugee already op by its pulsing stealth, and it CAN STACK UP TO 12 SECONDS :OOOOOO..I extremely support this idea, this could also make thieves not gank every 15 seconds, but only like 30-60 when their cds got off, i extremely hate when me the full zerker elementalist with staff dies to a thief by ONLY ONE LISTEN CLSOELY ONE SKILL "Backstab", this way we could reduce this, also nerf aa on dagger because i really hate when a thief does 2 x 600 Double Strike to me cos that is like 1200 and 1200 is like 12.5% hp of my staff elementalist, this way i have to like respawn from waypoint cos a cheese ov erpowered thief can like aa me in 5 seconds, i cant even move my mouse to endurance bar to click and dodge

@"Menyus.4610" said:Very good idea, they should nerf initiative, so you could not stack stealth and all when ooc, this way you can still use stealth attack for engage by using skills like BP, HEal skill, shadow refugee, shadow refugee already op by its pulsing stealth, and it CAN STACK UP TO 12 SECONDS :OOOOOO..I extremely support this idea, this could also make thieves not gank every 15 seconds, but only like 30-60 when their cds got off, i extremely hate when me the full zerker elementalist with staff dies to a thief by ONLY ONE LISTEN CLSOELY ONE SKILL "Backstab", this way we could reduce this, also nerf aa on dagger because i really hate when a thief does 2 x 600 Double Strike to me cos that is like 1200 and 1200 is like 12.5% hp of my staff elementalist, this way i have to like respawn from waypoint cos a cheese ov erpowered thief can like aa me in 5 seconds, i cant even move my mouse to endurance bar to click and dodge

Haha if ur dying to non DE thief on a regular basis u definitely need to learn ur class better wow

@"Menyus.4610" said:Very good idea, they should nerf initiative, so you could not stack stealth and all when ooc, this way you can still use stealth attack for engage by using skills like BP, HEal skill, shadow refugee, shadow refugee already op by its pulsing stealth, and it CAN STACK UP TO 12 SECONDS :OOOOOO..I extremely support this idea, this could also make thieves not gank every 15 seconds, but only like 30-60 when their cds got off, i extremely hate when me the full zerker elementalist with staff dies to a thief by ONLY ONE LISTEN CLSOELY ONE SKILL "Backstab", this way we could reduce this, also nerf aa on dagger because i really hate when a thief does 2 x 600 Double Strike to me cos that is like 1200 and 1200 is like 12.5% hp of my staff elementalist, this way i have to like respawn from waypoint cos a cheese ov erpowered thief can like aa me in 5 seconds, i cant even move my mouse to endurance bar to click and dodge

You're going to need to spend some real money on a legit gaming mouse, top tier players can't mouse click with generic trash.