Please Publish Usage Stats and Win Ratios for Ranked Seasons — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Please Publish Usage Stats and Win Ratios for Ranked Seasons

mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065

When Season 14 Ends, would you please release a list breaking down how much Professions/Elite Specializations were played as well as their win ratios? I particularly care about the top 250, but I'd like to see all of ranked in addition to top 250 if we can. We know from your post here:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
To put things in perspective, Reaper had one of the highest win-rates and play-rates in ranked last season.

That you have access to this information.

The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion.

<1

Comments

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2018

    Consider how win trading effects this data. Not to harp on it, but seriously.

    The 10 Commandments Of Conquest
    Abide by the commandments or God shalt deliver unto thee a packet of salt as often as thou did break them
    -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38081/the-10-commandments-of-conquest#1

  • @mortrialus.3062 said:
    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065

    When Season 14 Ends, would you please release a list breaking down how much Professions/Elite Specializations were played as well as their win ratios? I particularly care about the top 250, but I'd like to see all of ranked in addition to top 250 if we can. We know from your post here:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    To put things in perspective, Reaper had one of the highest win-rates and play-rates in ranked last season.

    That you have access to this information.

    Yes to all of this please.

  • @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Consider how win trading effects this data. Not to harp on it, but seriously.

    Wintrading is nowhere near as active as you're making it out to be.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Consider how win trading effects this data. Not to harp on it, but seriously.

    Wintrading is nowhere near as active as you're making it out to be.

    Especially after the big ban crusade a few seasons ago going after win traders. It may happen occasionally, but it's nowhere near as prevalent as it used to be.

  • This sounds so dope actually.

    I'm a well known nobody.
    Former member of [MnF], [DnT], [dP], and [Hg]. Winner of the 2018 ERP Tournament.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Consider how win trading effects this data. Not to harp on it, but seriously.

    Wintrading is nowhere near as active as you're making it out to be.

    Oh yes it is. People just aren't as lazy with making it so obvious anymore.

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Consider how win trading effects this data. Not to harp on it, but seriously.

    Wintrading is nowhere near as active as you're making it out to be.

    Especially after the big ban crusade a few seasons ago going after win traders. It may happen occasionally, but it's nowhere near as prevalent as it used to be.

    You do realize that those people weren't even banned right? And they have more alts now that they did before.

    The 10 Commandments Of Conquest
    Abide by the commandments or God shalt deliver unto thee a packet of salt as often as thou did break them
    -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38081/the-10-commandments-of-conquest#1

  • Mirage and Soulbeast.....freelo lol.
    They are just both overtuned.
    I just swap around to their new OP class of the quarter...been playing my Ranger a ton because I can basically 1v3 and be unkillable.
    I never liked playing my mes much...but I should give mirage a try....blowing whole groups up while in stealth seems funs too lol.

  • Airdive.2613Airdive.2613 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Consider how win trading effects this data. Not to harp on it, but seriously.

    Is win trading somehow tied to professions used? If it isn't, it's reasonable to ignore win trading in this data.

  • Airdive.2613Airdive.2613 Member ✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    And it would feed all those to point their fingers at the next “This class is OP Nerf”

    Ironically, this would happen regardless of who's at the top of the list.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    And it would feed all those to point their fingers at the next “This class is OP Nerf”

    Ironically, this would happen regardless of who's at the top of the list.

    This would feed it even more because the majority of players don’t know how to properly use the data or understand what the data actually means, and would just try to use it to fuel their witch-hunt of OP builds when they lose against any class that shows up in the data.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    And it would feed all those to point their fingers at the next “This class is OP Nerf”

    Ironically, this would happen regardless of who's at the top of the list.

    This would feed it even more because the majority of players don’t know how to properly use the data or understand what the data actually means, and would just try to use it to fuel their witch-hunt of OP builds when they lose against any class that shows up in the data.

    That doesn't stop Dota, LoL, Hearthstone, Yugioh, Magic the Gathering, Official Pokemon, Pokemon Showdown, ect. ect. from publishing this information in exquisite often card by card detail.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    And it would feed all those to point their fingers at the next “This class is OP Nerf”

    Ironically, this would happen regardless of who's at the top of the list.

    This would feed it even more because the majority of players don’t know how to properly use the data or understand what the data actually means, and would just try to use it to fuel their witch-hunt of OP builds when they lose against any class that shows up in the data.

    That doesn't stop Dota, LoL, Hearthstone, Yugioh, Magic the Gathering, Official Pokemon, Pokemon Showdown, ect. ect. from publishing this information in exquisite often card by card detail.

    Those games all have a better R&D/Balance team, not ones that make extremely questionable balance decisions with a sledgehammer. When I think of this game the first thing that comes to mind isn’t how well balanced it is or the the competency of balance team when it comes to PvP decisions.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    And it would feed all those to point their fingers at the next “This class is OP Nerf”

    Ironically, this would happen regardless of who's at the top of the list.

    This would feed it even more because the majority of players don’t know how to properly use the data or understand what the data actually means, and would just try to use it to fuel their witch-hunt of OP builds when they lose against any class that shows up in the data.

    That doesn't stop Dota, LoL, Hearthstone, Yugioh, Magic the Gathering, Official Pokemon, Pokemon Showdown, ect. ect. from publishing this information in exquisite often card by card detail.

    Those games all have a better R&D/Balance team, not ones that make extremely questionable balance decisions with a sledgehammer. When I think of this game the first thing that comes to mind isn’t how well balanced it is or the the competency of balance team when it comes to PvP decisions.

    If you think those game's players are happy with balance I've got a bridge to sell you. Heck between Yugioh, MtG, and hearthstoe there are typically only 3 or so decks even capable of winning regionals. About 60% of the entire roster have been completely abandoned by serious players in League and are considered nonviable.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    And it would feed all those to point their fingers at the next “This class is OP Nerf”

    Ironically, this would happen regardless of who's at the top of the list.

    This would feed it even more because the majority of players don’t know how to properly use the data or understand what the data actually means, and would just try to use it to fuel their witch-hunt of OP builds when they lose against any class that shows up in the data.

    That doesn't stop Dota, LoL, Hearthstone, Yugioh, Magic the Gathering, Official Pokemon, Pokemon Showdown, ect. ect. from publishing this information in exquisite often card by card detail.

    Those games all have a better R&D/Balance team, not ones that make extremely questionable balance decisions with a sledgehammer. When I think of this game the first thing that comes to mind isn’t how well balanced it is or the the competency of balance team when it comes to PvP decisions.

    If you think those game's players are happy with balance I've got a bridge to sell you. Heck between Yugioh, MtG, and hearthstoe there are typically only 3 or so decks even capable of winning regionals. About 60% of the entire roster have been completely abandoned by serious players in League and are considered nonviable.

    Funny, MtG actually has the most diverse meta in its two largest competitive formats than it has in years, Modern has seen the most diversity than any other format, where each competitive event is completely different on what decks places in the Top 8, 16, and 32 and which decks win the overall events, shows how much you know about that game, and every game has it’s whiners because they lose, but the difference is the devs in charge of balancing those don’t take sledgehammers to everything whenever anyone whines about losing to specific things, they actually look at the health of the game, format and meta.

  • Malafaia.8903Malafaia.8903 Member ✭✭✭

    @Luclinraider.2317 said:
    Mirage and Soulbeast.....freelo lol.
    They are just both overtuned.
    I just swap around to their new OP class of the quarter...been playing my Ranger a ton because I can basically 1v3 and be unkillable.
    I never liked playing my mes much...but I should give mirage a try....blowing whole groups up while in stealth seems funs too lol.

    where can i get some of these bronze opponents you are fighting?

  • I think thats a great idea. Unfortunately it was asked for in the past and ANET didnt do it. Maybe they're afraid that it will just highlight how poor their balancing decisions are?

    I would love to see the data for the top 250 but for also for each division. As someone said what works in Silver does not necessarily work in Plat. And if you are a perma silver player do you really care what is played in Plat?

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    And it would feed all those to point their fingers at the next “This class is OP Nerf”

    Ironically, this would happen regardless of who's at the top of the list.

    This would feed it even more because the majority of players don’t know how to properly use the data or understand what the data actually means, and would just try to use it to fuel their witch-hunt of OP builds when they lose against any class that shows up in the data.

    That doesn't stop Dota, LoL, Hearthstone, Yugioh, Magic the Gathering, Official Pokemon, Pokemon Showdown, ect. ect. from publishing this information in exquisite often card by card detail.

    I also believe For Honor does this as well

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2018

    @Spartacus.3192 said:
    I think thats a great idea. Unfortunately it was asked for in the past and ANET didnt do it. Maybe they're afraid that it will just highlight how poor their balancing decisions are?

    I would love to see the data for the top 250 but for also for each division. As someone said what works in Silver does not necessarily work in Plat. And if you are a perma silver player do you really care what is played in Plat?

    I feel like we can get them to publish it by making enough noise about it now that @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 has crossed a line by revealing at least a little about the win ratios like he did with Reaper.

    I also don't think representation making Anet look bad is anything anyone needs to worry about. In almost every Fighting game I've ever seen about 50-60% of the roster is completely abandoned in even remotely serious play, and considered literally unwinnable in tournament settings. It's a similar situation with League of Legends where about 60% of champions are abandoned in high tier play. Each class with the exception of Ele having about one maybe two specializations that are tournament and ranked viable is actually doing about in line with the rest of the competition.

    Like if we simplify each class into a core-elite-elite dichotomy and then think about which ones are capable of being played effectively and hitting the top 250:

    Necromancer - Reaper - Scourge
    Mesmer - Chronomancer - Mirage
    Elementalist - Tempest - Weaver
    Ranger - Druid - Soulbeast
    Thief - Daredevil - Deadeye
    Engineer - Scrapper - Holosmith
    Warrior - Beserker - Spellbreaker
    Guardian - Dragon Hunter - Firebrand
    Revenant - Herald - Renegade

    (Bolded are builds I can personally confirm I've seen mained in the top 250 this season)

    15/27 builds seeing some level of play higher end is actually a bit a head of the curve compared to other similar games. If we go by Godsofpvp.net's list of tournament capable builds that puts us at 11/27 which is right in line with the usual split you see of about 60% of characters / classes abandoned at high level play.

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    And it would feed all those to point their fingers at the next “This class is OP Nerf”

    Ironically, this would happen regardless of who's at the top of the list.

    This would feed it even more because the majority of players don’t know how to properly use the data or understand what the data actually means, and would just try to use it to fuel their witch-hunt of OP builds when they lose against any class that shows up in the data.

    That doesn't stop Dota, LoL, Hearthstone, Yugioh, Magic the Gathering, Official Pokemon, Pokemon Showdown, ect. ect. from publishing this information in exquisite often card by card detail.

    Those games all have a better R&D/Balance team, not ones that make extremely questionable balance decisions with a sledgehammer. When I think of this game the first thing that comes to mind isn’t how well balanced it is or the the competency of balance team when it comes to PvP decisions.

    If you think those game's players are happy with balance I've got a bridge to sell you. Heck between Yugioh, MtG, and hearthstoe there are typically only 3 or so decks even capable of winning regionals. About 60% of the entire roster have been completely abandoned by serious players in League and are considered nonviable.

    Funny, MtG actually has the most diverse meta in its two largest competitive formats than it has in years, Modern has seen the most diversity than any other format, where each competitive event is completely different on what decks places in the Top 8, 16, and 32 and which decks win the overall events, shows how much you know about that game, and every game has it’s whiners because they lose, but the difference is the devs in charge of balancing those don’t take sledgehammers to everything whenever anyone whines about losing to specific things, they actually look at the health of the game, format and meta.

    Dude I literally checked Wizards of the Coast before posting that to make sure my information was accurate. You seem to have a kneejerk reaction towards modest criticism of a game you seem to like.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion.

  • @mortrialus.3062 said:
    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065

    When Season 14 Ends, would you please release a list breaking down how much Professions/Elite Specializations were played as well as their win ratios? I particularly care about the top 250, but I'd like to see all of ranked in addition to top 250 if we can. We know from your post here:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    To put things in perspective, Reaper had one of the highest win-rates and play-rates in ranked last season.

    That you have access to this information.

    They don't like to be specific for some reason.

    "One of the highest" can literally mean anything. Could mean in the top 3 or top 4 or who knows what that means.

    I would also like to see this though. I think it would tell us so much.

    Remember Necros: You're only viable if a guardian decides it so

  • Yes pwease.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Consider how win trading effects this data. Not to harp on it, but seriously.

    Wintrading is nowhere near as active as you're making it out to be.

    To be honest people are more likely to have someone on their team play bad because they don't like someone on the same team or poor sportsmanship in general than win trading.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    And it would feed all those to point their fingers at the next “This class is OP Nerf”

    Ironically, this would happen regardless of who's at the top of the list.

    This would feed it even more because the majority of players don’t know how to properly use the data or understand what the data actually means, and would just try to use it to fuel their witch-hunt of OP builds when they lose against any class that shows up in the data.

    While I do agree most players will misread/misrepresent the data while also using it as a stick to point and ridicule the most played. What's happening now is people are pointing at selected classes they don't like fighting and going "IT'S SO BROKEN!!!! ANET NERF THIS PLEEEEEASE!"

    This puts ANet in a tricky position. If they do nothing because the class is poorly represented the playerbase complains more and more. If they do something then they're pushing an already poorly performing, class statistically speaking, further into obscurity.

    I mean we all know the problem so I'm just going to say it. Anet doesn't often balance with precision, it's done with sledgehammers and pick axes.

  • I think they should only post the top 250 as the rest would be completely irrelevent to be fair. Who cares what people play in bronze and silver? Btw that wasn't meant in a harsh way, just trying to be realistic.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭

    @UfoCoffee.2084 said:
    I think they should only post the top 250 as the rest would be completely irrelevent to be fair. Who cares what people play in bronze and silver? Btw that wasn't meant in a harsh way, just trying to be realistic.

    Gold, bronze, and silver make up the majority of the player-base so of course it matters.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2018

    @DragonFury.6243 said:
    i dont think they ll give us such info

    I believe this as well and for good reason ... it's easy to abuse without getting a comprehensive set of data or knowing how to analyze it. Kind of like how people use Snow Crow or Raidair to make claims about classes in PVE.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Erzian.5218Erzian.5218 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2018

    Funny, MtG actually has the most diverse meta in its two largest competitive formats than it has in years, Modern has seen the most diversity than any other format, where each competitive event is completely different on what decks places in the Top 8, 16, and 32 and which decks win the overall events, shows how much you know about that game, and every game has it’s whiners because they lose, but the difference is the devs in charge of balancing those don’t take sledgehammers to everything whenever anyone whines about losing to specific things, they actually look at the health of the game, format and meta.

    Dude I literally checked Wizards of the Coast before posting that to make sure my information was accurate. You seem to have a kneejerk reaction towards modest criticism of a game you seem to like.

    Idk what you checked, but certainly not modern. Just looking at the last 5 major events (which are substantially morecompetitive than gw2 has ever been, so just „being lucky“ or the player being better than the rest is not really an excuse) there are 22 different archetypes in the top 8s. Perhaps you checked standard, which will always have limited diversity due to the comparatively small card pool.

    Source: https://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=MO

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    @DragonFury.6243 said:
    i dont think they ll give us such info

    I believe this as well and for good reason ... it's easy to abuse without getting a comprehensive set of data or knowing how to analyze it. Kind of like how people use Snow Crow or Raidair to make claims about classes in PVE.

    First can someone help me i think i have a stalker on forums
    Second these site uses ingame data so they are ok
    Third it is different to have an into or data directly for developing or anet than 3rd party sites

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2018

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Spartacus.3192 said:
    I think thats a great idea. Unfortunately it was asked for in the past and ANET didnt do it. Maybe they're afraid that it will just highlight how poor their balancing decisions are?

    I would love to see the data for the top 250 but for also for each division. As someone said what works in Silver does not necessarily work in Plat. And if you are a perma silver player do you really care what is played in Plat?

    I feel like we can get them to publish it by making enough noise about it now that @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 has crossed a line by revealing at least a little about the win ratios like he did with Reaper.

    I also don't think representation making Anet look bad is anything anyone needs to worry about. In almost every Fighting game I've ever seen about 50-60% of the roster is completely abandoned in even remotely serious play, and considered literally unwinnable in tournament settings. It's a similar situation with League of Legends where about 60% of champions are abandoned in high tier play. Each class with the exception of Ele having about one maybe two specializations that are tournament and ranked viable is actually doing about in line with the rest of the competition.

    Like if we simplify each class into a core-elite-elite dichotomy and then think about which ones are capable of being played effectively and hitting the top 250:

    Necromancer - Reaper - Scourge
    Mesmer - Chronomancer - Mirage
    Elementalist - Tempest - Weaver
    Ranger - Druid - Soulbeast
    Thief - Daredevil - Deadeye
    Engineer - Scrapper - Holosmith
    Warrior - Beserker - Spellbreaker
    Guardian - Dragon Hunter - Firebrand
    Revenant - Herald - Renegade

    (Bolded are builds I can personally confirm I've seen mained in the top 250 this season)

    15/27 builds seeing some level of play higher end is actually a bit a head of the curve compared to other similar games. If we go by Godsofpvp.net's list of tournament capable builds that puts us at 11/27 which is right in line with the usual split you see of about 60% of characters / classes abandoned at high level play.

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

    @Airdive.2613 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    And it would feed all those to point their fingers at the next “This class is OP Nerf”

    Ironically, this would happen regardless of who's at the top of the list.

    This would feed it even more because the majority of players don’t know how to properly use the data or understand what the data actually means, and would just try to use it to fuel their witch-hunt of OP builds when they lose against any class that shows up in the data.

    That doesn't stop Dota, LoL, Hearthstone, Yugioh, Magic the Gathering, Official Pokemon, Pokemon Showdown, ect. ect. from publishing this information in exquisite often card by card detail.

    Those games all have a better R&D/Balance team, not ones that make extremely questionable balance decisions with a sledgehammer. When I think of this game the first thing that comes to mind isn’t how well balanced it is or the the competency of balance team when it comes to PvP decisions.

    If you think those game's players are happy with balance I've got a bridge to sell you. Heck between Yugioh, MtG, and hearthstoe there are typically only 3 or so decks even capable of winning regionals. About 60% of the entire roster have been completely abandoned by serious players in League and are considered nonviable.

    Funny, MtG actually has the most diverse meta in its two largest competitive formats than it has in years, Modern has seen the most diversity than any other format, where each competitive event is completely different on what decks places in the Top 8, 16, and 32 and which decks win the overall events, shows how much you know about that game, and every game has it’s whiners because they lose, but the difference is the devs in charge of balancing those don’t take sledgehammers to everything whenever anyone whines about losing to specific things, they actually look at the health of the game, format and meta.

    Dude I literally checked Wizards of the Coast before posting that to make sure my information was accurate. You seem to have a kneejerk reaction towards modest criticism of a game you seem to like.

    Highly doubt you looked at the major events of Modern, as Erzian pointed out in the last five major Modern events 22 different archetypes/decks were in the the top 8, and Standard inherently has smaller amount of decks but it is the most diverse it’s been in a long time, where there is more than 1-3 decks showing up in the top 8, some people actually know what they are talking about.

    Interesting how I said most players don’t know how to interpret or properly use information from sources like Devs, look how someone looked at the WotC website and didn’t understand the information.

    No knee jerk reactions here, nice attempt at trying to get personal with this though, quite hilarious.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @UfoCoffee.2084 said:
    I think they should only post the top 250 as the rest would be completely irrelevent to be fair. Who cares what people play in bronze and silver? Btw that wasn't meant in a harsh way, just trying to be realistic.

    Gold, bronze, and silver make up the majority of the player-base so of course it matters.

    Well as someone pointed out in another thread. Silver and lower seems to have a bit of a problem with mirage bots.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2018

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @DragonFury.6243 said:
    i dont think they ll give us such info

    I believe this as well and for good reason ... it's easy to abuse without getting a comprehensive set of data or knowing how to analyze it. Kind of like how people use Snow Crow or Raidair to make claims about classes in PVE.

    First can someone help me i think i have a stalker on forums
    Second these site uses ingame data so they are ok
    Third it is different to have an into or data directly for developing or anet than 3rd party sites

    That's not what s/he is saying though. They're saying that the data will be abused by people wishing to exclude or push a certain agenda. As soon as the class they don't like suddenly becomes the most represented they're going to pounce and use it to justify nerfs. This is usually not well thought out and usually done in such a heavy handed fashion it ends up sending the class and spec to the dumpster for a while.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:
    have an agenda they want to push. Scratch that everyone has an agenda.> @DragonFury.6243 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @DragonFury.6243 said:
    i dont think they ll give us such info

    I believe this as well and for good reason ... it's easy to abuse without getting a comprehensive set of data or knowing how to analyze it. Kind of like how people use Snow Crow or Raidair to make claims about classes in PVE.

    First can someone help me i think i have a stalker on forums
    Second these site uses ingame data so they are ok
    Third it is different to have an into or data directly for developing or anet than 3rd party sites

    That's not what s/he is saying though. They're saying that the data will be abused by people wishing to exclude or push a certain agenda. As soon as the class they don't like suddenly becomes the most represented they're going to pounce and use it to justify nerfs. This is usually not well thought out and usually done in such a heavy handed fashion it ends up sending the class and spec to the dumpster for a while.

    Exactly ... in fact, we already see this happening with the small amount of data that players glean from the game on the websites I mentioned. It's very easy to just look at a fraction of data and simply conclude something a person wants to be true to justify their own ideas. That's garbage science and people do it all the time.

    No, I think it's already good enough to know that Anet collects this data, can use it and make decisions about how to proceed with the game without having armchair game devs tell them they are doing it wrong. No reason to fuel this tendency with more data to empower that kind of activity.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

    Then we'd find out only 251 people played ranked this season ;)

    Twitch | YouTube

    Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In b4 anet informs people that half the top 250 plays meme builds

  • Erzian.5218Erzian.5218 Member ✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    In b4 anet informs people that half the top 250 plays meme builds

    We already had a naked rev in legend while the revenant community was crying that their class is unplayable.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2018

    @Erzian.5218 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    In b4 anet informs people that half the top 250 plays meme builds

    We already had a naked rev in legend while the revenant community was crying that their class is unplayable.

    Tbf any above average player can do well with Meme builds, and that was a player that is better than most players in the game, player skill does more than build choices(outside completely broken things that pop up from time to time). Also Armor doesn’t do all that much for players in PvP, it’s negligible.

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    have an agenda they want to push. Scratch that everyone has an agenda.> @DragonFury.6243 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @DragonFury.6243 said:
    i dont think they ll give us such info

    I believe this as well and for good reason ... it's easy to abuse without getting a comprehensive set of data or knowing how to analyze it. Kind of like how people use Snow Crow or Raidair to make claims about classes in PVE.

    First can someone help me i think i have a stalker on forums
    Second these site uses ingame data so they are ok
    Third it is different to have an into or data directly for developing or anet than 3rd party sites

    That's not what s/he is saying though. They're saying that the data will be abused by people wishing to exclude or push a certain agenda. As soon as the class they don't like suddenly becomes the most represented they're going to pounce and use it to justify nerfs. This is usually not well thought out and usually done in such a heavy handed fashion it ends up sending the class and spec to the dumpster for a while.

    Exactly ... in fact, we already see this happening with the small amount of data that players glean from the game on the websites I mentioned. It's very easy to just look at a fraction of data and simply conclude something a person wants to be true to justify their own ideas. That's garbage science and people do it all the time.

    No, I think it's already good enough to know that Anet collects this data, can use it and make decisions about how to proceed with the game without having armchair game devs tell them they are doing it wrong. No reason to fuel this tendency with more data to empower that kind of activity.

    No they wont give us any data because they have Garbage Balance

  • TamX.1870TamX.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    This - suggestion in OP - would be great. I feel that competitive game mode needs some statistics from matches, to judge your decisions when entering. I am not that afraid if published statistics show that some classes / combos are more effective than others, it is quite common in many other games. It would just shift player base to work with stronger builds & combos. I am not assuming that all classes are equal in PvP, instead I try to concentrate on classes and builds that promise some rewards from all the time & effort put to the class & build.

    It would be great to see these kinds of statistics after all seasons, so that you could compare balance patches and their effects to statistics. IMO, ANet does not have many reasons to keep the data secret. Publishing it would not affect anyways to endless stream of threads crying for balance, buffs and nerfs. It could of course move those threads to more useful direction, in terms to have better competitive game mode later.

    Of course, publishing builds & compositions that are generally stronger than others would mean, that some people would give up the entire match if seeing that they are not in that strong combo. Sadly, this happens nowadays, and it is not even based on facts, but subjective ideas. Publishing info would put some social pressure to PvP players to switch to stronger builds, but that also happens today, and it is very strict in fractal & raid meta, so nothing that we have not seen before.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2018

    @DragonFury.6243 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    have an agenda they want to push. Scratch that everyone has an agenda.> @DragonFury.6243 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @DragonFury.6243 said:
    i dont think they ll give us such info

    I believe this as well and for good reason ... it's easy to abuse without getting a comprehensive set of data or knowing how to analyze it. Kind of like how people use Snow Crow or Raidair to make claims about classes in PVE.

    First can someone help me i think i have a stalker on forums
    Second these site uses ingame data so they are ok
    Third it is different to have an into or data directly for developing or anet than 3rd party sites

    That's not what s/he is saying though. They're saying that the data will be abused by people wishing to exclude or push a certain agenda. As soon as the class they don't like suddenly becomes the most represented they're going to pounce and use it to justify nerfs. This is usually not well thought out and usually done in such a heavy handed fashion it ends up sending the class and spec to the dumpster for a while.

    Exactly ... in fact, we already see this happening with the small amount of data that players glean from the game on the websites I mentioned. It's very easy to just look at a fraction of data and simply conclude something a person wants to be true to justify their own ideas. That's garbage science and people do it all the time.

    No, I think it's already good enough to know that Anet collects this data, can use it and make decisions about how to proceed with the game without having armchair game devs tell them they are doing it wrong. No reason to fuel this tendency with more data to empower that kind of activity.

    No they wont give us any data because they have Garbage Balance

    Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but that's not why we wouldn't get data.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • TheDevice.2751TheDevice.2751 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    basically, if we'd seen the data for the past few years it would say that the top win% has usually been mesmer / warrior. War might rotate with guard, engi, mayybe theif.

    Thats why mesmer mains don't want the data released.

    Remember Necros: You're only viable if a guardian decides it so

  • TheDevice.2751TheDevice.2751 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TheDevice.2751 said:
    basically, if we'd seen the data for the past few years it would say that the top win% has usually been mesmer / warrior. War might rotate with guard, engi, mayybe theif.

    Thats why mesmers don't want the data released.

    I'm.... literally a mesmer main. I literally made the thread....

    OH sry.

    Remember Necros: You're only viable if a guardian decides it so

  • FtoPScrub.5476FtoPScrub.5476 Member ✭✭✭

    People actually think class representation on the leaderboards is indicative of how balanced a spec is?

    No wonder most of the balance suggestions on the forums are garbage

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