"Condi builds are easier to play" and the widely accepted truth of how and why. - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

"Condi builds are easier to play" and the widely accepted truth of how and why.

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  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    People play condis because they're way easier to be succesful with...the devs already stated that necro had the highet win rate in pvp and wvw is swamped by necro..."add diversity" my behind

    anet said REAPER has ONE OF highest win rates (there still can be 3 or 4 classes with higher and still 10-15 with just a Little less winrate - so this Statement was nearly without any Content). and reaper got barely played with condi. so your whole Statement here just wrong and shows how uninformed you are.

    also wvw is far away from being "swamped" by necros. in small scale you see nearly no necro, and in zergs its just 20% of all classes (1 per Group).

    you are obviously VERY toxic and People like you sadly destroying any Chance for a constructive, good discussion.

    The quantity of players using necro in gw2 is simply staggering and this translate into an undending wave of complain threads from necro/mesmer main to maintain the status quo alongside the periodical ranger nerf thread , the only class that stand as the last bastion of hope for the remaining playerbase....I mean if you see a ranger nerf thread on the forum must be from a necro main most likely or mesmer in few occasions.

    What kind of discussion is to be expected on this forum? Bias and self-interest are quite visible and any attempt of reasoning is twisted by word play , mockering and insults

    Personally i think you are being silly. If every other class takes hits and balanced, why should rangers be excluded if they need to be balanced? if anything, it sounds like you are a ranger main who is afraid of having your elite spec forced to become more skillful.

    Having a single class with tons of sustain and damage of top dps kind, is not good for the game.

    There is a reason why pvp is dying in this game, and its because having a class hard counter you to the point where you have zero chance to win is not fun. I hope ANET balances so that there is some chance to win versus another class regardless of being hard countered, so that you can out skill your opponent, now that would be good design.

    Tons of sustain?...Ranger survives the most by being at range and that something not going away anytime soon....

    I have seen soulbeast play, any idea how much as a reaper i would love to have the kinda mobility and sustain you have while im on reaper? yeah.

    You only have to give up all the aoe spam frenzy and see how that work for you it's easy really...oh wait you want to keep all the aoe spamm while getting mobility and sustain on top..sure I can't wait for you telling me that necro has no aoe dmg and it's the weakest class in the game , bottom tier everywhere

    Reaper is more of a melee ranged character than a aoe spamming guy like scourge, besides, we had our dmg nerfed and our sustain recently, and on top of that if you cc them and dmg them their shroud disappears in seconds and you get soul barbs which is a indicator screaming attack me now my shroud is down and im easy picking because i cannot get into shroud no more.

    Without sustain outside of shroud and a baby sitter they are instantly dead.

    The reason why its dead is simple 2 health bars versus infinite aegis invulns and evade spam vs 2 health bar, the invulns aegis and evade spam wins hands down.

    If you cannot get out of a area because you keep being cced, it doesnt matter, especially since classes nowadays can almost instantly burst you down, which is why soulbeast must take a hit.

    Reapers took a hit, scourge took a hit, warriors really took a hit with full counter, so tell me, why should soulbeast be immune to nerfs?

    Give me a good reason explain the reason why soulbeast technically shouldnt be nerfed with explanation on abilities dmg and how it works.

    Ranger receives nerfs all the times..like last patch applied nerfs and ofc these are not the class destroying nerfs you necro are looking for. What exactly are you looking for? A ranged designed class that does no relevant damage from range so that you can F1-F5 faceroll this class too like you do with the rest?

    -X player : can't counter necro at melee range

    -Necro player : bring cleanse you noob

    Player X bring cleanse

    -Necro player : too much cleanse in game

    -X player : can't counter necro at melee range

    -Necro player : bring cleanse you noob ..or avoid our aoe spam

    -X player: how can I avoid melee aoe spam while keeping pressure at melee range?

    -Necro player : go range you noob

    • X players : goes range

    -Necro player : too much damage from range

    • X player: drop the mouse and uninstall the game

    Necro community since 2012

    Really funny. While ranger also received a hard buff, necro only received nerfs last patch.

    And I'm not saying necro needs to be best at everything, that would be annoying to play.

    But you have to admit, that ranger damage is a bit over the top right now, doing 5-8, sometimes even 10k dmg with 1500 range autoattacks is a little bit too much and takes no actual skill.

    I'm really looking forward to a game, where skill actually matters, but thats sadly not the case for gw2 (at least not in most situations).

    Well we fought yesterday as a guild group of 24people against zone blobs with 60 people and we still won, that might have to do with us being better than our opponents, or maybe our builds just fit better together, than builds of random people in public zergs

    You may look forward for a more skilled game when they will delete insta cast aoe gameplay with no tell : mark spamming is anything but skilled as they are instant with no delay or tells like a staff ele, in a similar vein we have shades...the whole necro class is about insta cast aoe cleaving and for that reason is a newb favourite.

    People hate necro because its gameplay is really non-sense : all necro players do is running in circle while spamming mark/shades on top on them as a general tactic, no real training required, anybody can do that and it takes 3x the skill level to overcome that so called strategy thus making a necro an extremely newb friendly class

    Any melee player will have to dodge through his teeth while hoping to grace the necro with a hit, very few mistakes allowed..penalty : a kitten load of condis on you.

    It all started in Dec 2014 with the Dhuumfire patch , suddenly loads of noname reached legend status ( in their mind ) as the build allowed them to become pvp gods over night , every game in Pvp was littered with dhuum necro at 2-3 per team...such fun; it all lasted for months till June 2015 where necro "got nerfed"...but that was only a sweet pill before Reaper release with Deathly chill.

    With reaper the problem got several times worst, the number of necros skyrocketed in pvp and wvw...again it was 2-3 reapers per match...same story till PoF launch with scourge and sand savant

    You want less condi clear? OK so let's downscale the gameplay to a point where a wrong step doesn't result in you being loaded by 6-7 condis and where a dodge actually counts...but right now a 5s CD mark trigger other traits for a cascade of condis on the enemy...and the mark is insta cast...yet necro players ask for less condi clear....kitten.

    Also...10k autoattacks?....Sometimes I got hit by a 8k spinal shiever while having 1.7k toughness , followed by a 4-5k life reap...ranger is not the only one using yolobuilds, the difference here is that the ranger is using a build which results in insta death once I get close...with necro I need to kite with my life on a thread..one miustake and I get critted by 12k combo

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2019

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    People play condis because they're way easier to be succesful with...the devs already stated that necro had the highet win rate in pvp and wvw is swamped by necro..."add diversity" my behind

    anet said REAPER has ONE OF highest win rates (there still can be 3 or 4 classes with higher and still 10-15 with just a Little less winrate - so this Statement was nearly without any Content). and reaper got barely played with condi. so your whole Statement here just wrong and shows how uninformed you are.

    also wvw is far away from being "swamped" by necros. in small scale you see nearly no necro, and in zergs its just 20% of all classes (1 per Group).

    you are obviously VERY toxic and People like you sadly destroying any Chance for a constructive, good discussion.

    The quantity of players using necro in gw2 is simply staggering and this translate into an undending wave of complain threads from necro/mesmer main to maintain the status quo alongside the periodical ranger nerf thread , the only class that stand as the last bastion of hope for the remaining playerbase....I mean if you see a ranger nerf thread on the forum must be from a necro main most likely or mesmer in few occasions.

    What kind of discussion is to be expected on this forum? Bias and self-interest are quite visible and any attempt of reasoning is twisted by word play , mockering and insults

    Personally i think you are being silly. If every other class takes hits and balanced, why should rangers be excluded if they need to be balanced? if anything, it sounds like you are a ranger main who is afraid of having your elite spec forced to become more skillful.

    Having a single class with tons of sustain and damage of top dps kind, is not good for the game.

    There is a reason why pvp is dying in this game, and its because having a class hard counter you to the point where you have zero chance to win is not fun. I hope ANET balances so that there is some chance to win versus another class regardless of being hard countered, so that you can out skill your opponent, now that would be good design.

    Tons of sustain?...Ranger survives the most by being at range and that something not going away anytime soon....

    I have seen soulbeast play, any idea how much as a reaper i would love to have the kinda mobility and sustain you have while im on reaper? yeah.

    You only have to give up all the aoe spam frenzy and see how that work for you it's easy really...oh wait you want to keep all the aoe spamm while getting mobility and sustain on top..sure I can't wait for you telling me that necro has no aoe dmg and it's the weakest class in the game , bottom tier everywhere

    Reaper is more of a melee ranged character than a aoe spamming guy like scourge, besides, we had our dmg nerfed and our sustain recently, and on top of that if you cc them and dmg them their shroud disappears in seconds and you get soul barbs which is a indicator screaming attack me now my shroud is down and im easy picking because i cannot get into shroud no more.

    Without sustain outside of shroud and a baby sitter they are instantly dead.

    The reason why its dead is simple 2 health bars versus infinite aegis invulns and evade spam vs 2 health bar, the invulns aegis and evade spam wins hands down.

    If you cannot get out of a area because you keep being cced, it doesnt matter, especially since classes nowadays can almost instantly burst you down, which is why soulbeast must take a hit.

    Reapers took a hit, scourge took a hit, warriors really took a hit with full counter, so tell me, why should soulbeast be immune to nerfs?

    Give me a good reason explain the reason why soulbeast technically shouldnt be nerfed with explanation on abilities dmg and how it works.

    Ranger receives nerfs all the times..like last patch applied nerfs and ofc these are not the class destroying nerfs you necro are looking for. What exactly are you looking for? A ranged designed class that does no relevant damage from range so that you can F1-F5 faceroll this class too like you do with the rest?

    -X player : can't counter necro at melee range

    -Necro player : bring cleanse you noob

    Player X bring cleanse

    -Necro player : too much cleanse in game

    -X player : can't counter necro at melee range

    -Necro player : bring cleanse you noob ..or avoid our aoe spam

    -X player: how can I avoid melee aoe spam while keeping pressure at melee range?

    -Necro player : go range you noob

    • X players : goes range

    -Necro player : too much damage from range

    • X player: drop the mouse and uninstall the game

    Necro community since 2012

    Really funny. While ranger also received a hard buff, necro only received nerfs last patch.

    And I'm not saying necro needs to be best at everything, that would be annoying to play.

    But you have to admit, that ranger damage is a bit over the top right now, doing 5-8, sometimes even 10k dmg with 1500 range autoattacks is a little bit too much and takes no actual skill.

    I'm really looking forward to a game, where skill actually matters, but thats sadly not the case for gw2 (at least not in most situations).

    Well we fought yesterday as a guild group of 24people against zone blobs with 60 people and we still won, that might have to do with us being better than our opponents, or maybe our builds just fit better together, than builds of random people in public zergs

    You may look forward for a more skilled game when they will delete insta cast aoe gameplay with no tell : mark spamming is anything but skilled as they are instant with no delay or tells like a staff ele, in a similar vein we have shades...the whole necro class is about insta cast aoe cleaving and for that reason is a newb favourite.

    People hate necro because its gameplay is really non-sense : all necro players do is running in circle while spamming mark/shades on top on them as a general tactic, no real training required, anybody can do that and it takes 3x the skill level to overcome that so called strategy thus making a necro an extremely newb friendly class

    Any melee player will have to dodge through his teeth while hoping to grace the necro with a hit, very few mistakes allowed..penalty : a kitten load of condis on you.

    It all started in Dec 2014 with the Dhuumfire patch , suddenly loads of noname reached legend status ( in their mind ) as the build allowed them to become pvp gods over night , every game in Pvp was littered with dhuum necro at 2-3 per team...such fun; it all lasted for months till June 2015 where necro "got nerfed"...but that was only a sweet pill before Reaper release with Deathly chill.

    With reaper the problem got several times worst, the number of necros skyrocketed in pvp and wvw...again it was 2-3 reapers per match...same story till PoF launch with scourge and sand savant

    You want less condi clear? OK so let's downscale the gameplay to a point where a wrong step doesn't result in you being loaded by 6-7 condis and where a dodge actually counts...but right now a 5s CD mark trigger other traits for a cascade of condis on the enemy...and the mark is insta cast...yet necro players ask for less condi clear....kitten.

    Also...10k autoattacks?....Sometimes I got hit by a 8k spinal shiever while having 1.7k toughness , followed by a 4-5k life reap...ranger is not the only one using yolobuilds, the difference here is that the ranger is using a build which results in insta death once I get close...with necro I need to kite with my life on a thread..one miustake and I get critted by 12k combo

    Its because in general damage is so high in spvp. Also chill got hit with the nerf bat already last patch pretty hard in pvp.

    The problem with scourge is different, they have far too much attached to one ability, making it super loaded. Having a ability that can turn boons into condis condis into boons Add boons And add condis to your enemies is too much loaded. Having so much makes the abilities hard to balance.

    It was a very poor choice, but necro isn't the only one suffering horrible consequences of those actions. Rangers with druid spec having a healer spec that was so strong in pve it was not only meta but mandatory, same for mesmers with chronomancers

    I heard druid was one of the best support in the past in pvp too, and it got nerfed, so design flaws are everywhere.

    No. People don't want mesmers to be useless, but having condi-application without doing anything is a real problem.
    Last week I fought a Condi mirage in wvw. He was very bad and I killed him with my necro. Still, I got so many conditions, while he just ran away. Because you know, it's pretty hard to dodge every autoattack of those clones.
    Also. Let's take scourge in a 1v1. It's pretty kitten easy to kill it, if you know, which attacks you have to avoid.
    While it's still very strong in teamfights (guild groups and zergs), when you get your back carried by firebrands. While sadly, boonshare mesmer got almost deleted from wvw zergs.
    But even then, scourge dmg got gutted so hard, that you have to play very offensive stats, while having no defense on your own.
    There's always pros and cons. The real problem we have, is anet not doing any useful skillsplits.
    Let's stay with the necro/mesmer comparison:
    Mesmer is still the most used support in high-end pve (raids).
    While necro is mediocre at best. Being the worst DPS class you could take. There's actually 2 bosses, where necro is meta: sabetha and soulless horror. But you don't take the necro for their damage, you take them for free addcleave.
    And let's not talk about support scourge. It's still underwhelming, and not a good choice as a support for good groups.
    And then there's PvP modes. Ok let's actually speak about wvw. Where mesmer is one of the best roaming classes (together with thief and ranger), but it's not so good in zergs anymore. It's utilities still make it useable though, while necro is just very good in zergs, because it has a lot of cleave and boon corrupt (even though I think it might need a little bit more due to how easy it is to get boons for most classes).
    And I think, that's all because there is no proper skillsplit.
    And it's not, because skillsplit is hard to do, but because anet seems to not want to. Not want to make professions play different in every gamemode.

    I was trying to point out that for the whole slow dmg dealing condi thing, you would literally have to nerf the dmg of both necro and mirage, and that condi is so bursty that it simply doesn't work the way it does in other MMOS because you have only a couple conditions at most and every class does the same one the other does.

    There is no unique condition that necro only can do. poison torment bleeed. Because everyone just adds the stacks up unlike lets say eq with unique timers on unique dots that are only applied by that said class, you have 4 people non stop applying 1 type of condition such as bleed. It also makes it impossible to know who is putting on those conditions, and yes they are a bit too common if you ask me.

    Its a two fold problem though that il admit isn't simple. You need condis with burst in pve for it to be viable, and that is one reason why mirage is successful, but if they burst in pvp, people will hate it because you cannot counter them easily since its almost insta cast abilities that cast 3 to 4 or more conditions at once.

    People want condis to be slow but how do you make it work in an environment where you got insta burst and non stop cleanses? You would need to rework how condis work for it to not burst, but for it to work, it would need to be for instance limited in pvp only how many stacks you can have, lets say max 10 stacks of bleed on one player and 3 or 4 burns, since bleed does almost no dmg in few stacks and needs quite a lot to hurt, but have its duration increased to 4 times the length, so it becomes a battle of attrition in pvp, but how will that work even if for instance that work if mirage didn't have its avoidances? it wouldn't so it would need to keep its survivability to see it, see what I mean? mirage is successful because it can burst with condis and because even if it couldn't it could live long enough to see the battle of attrition.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2019

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    People play condis because they're way easier to be succesful with...the devs already stated that necro had the highet win rate in pvp and wvw is swamped by necro..."add diversity" my behind

    anet said REAPER has ONE OF highest win rates (there still can be 3 or 4 classes with higher and still 10-15 with just a Little less winrate - so this Statement was nearly without any Content). and reaper got barely played with condi. so your whole Statement here just wrong and shows how uninformed you are.

    also wvw is far away from being "swamped" by necros. in small scale you see nearly no necro, and in zergs its just 20% of all classes (1 per Group).

    you are obviously VERY toxic and People like you sadly destroying any Chance for a constructive, good discussion.

    The quantity of players using necro in gw2 is simply staggering and this translate into an undending wave of complain threads from necro/mesmer main to maintain the status quo alongside the periodical ranger nerf thread , the only class that stand as the last bastion of hope for the remaining playerbase....I mean if you see a ranger nerf thread on the forum must be from a necro main most likely or mesmer in few occasions.

    What kind of discussion is to be expected on this forum? Bias and self-interest are quite visible and any attempt of reasoning is twisted by word play , mockering and insults

    Personally i think you are being silly. If every other class takes hits and balanced, why should rangers be excluded if they need to be balanced? if anything, it sounds like you are a ranger main who is afraid of having your elite spec forced to become more skillful.

    Having a single class with tons of sustain and damage of top dps kind, is not good for the game.

    There is a reason why pvp is dying in this game, and its because having a class hard counter you to the point where you have zero chance to win is not fun. I hope ANET balances so that there is some chance to win versus another class regardless of being hard countered, so that you can out skill your opponent, now that would be good design.

    Tons of sustain?...Ranger survives the most by being at range and that something not going away anytime soon....

    I have seen soulbeast play, any idea how much as a reaper i would love to have the kinda mobility and sustain you have while im on reaper? yeah.

    You only have to give up all the aoe spam frenzy and see how that work for you it's easy really...oh wait you want to keep all the aoe spamm while getting mobility and sustain on top..sure I can't wait for you telling me that necro has no aoe dmg and it's the weakest class in the game , bottom tier everywhere

    Reaper is more of a melee ranged character than a aoe spamming guy like scourge, besides, we had our dmg nerfed and our sustain recently, and on top of that if you cc them and dmg them their shroud disappears in seconds and you get soul barbs which is a indicator screaming attack me now my shroud is down and im easy picking because i cannot get into shroud no more.

    Without sustain outside of shroud and a baby sitter they are instantly dead.

    The reason why its dead is simple 2 health bars versus infinite aegis invulns and evade spam vs 2 health bar, the invulns aegis and evade spam wins hands down.

    If you cannot get out of a area because you keep being cced, it doesnt matter, especially since classes nowadays can almost instantly burst you down, which is why soulbeast must take a hit.

    Reapers took a hit, scourge took a hit, warriors really took a hit with full counter, so tell me, why should soulbeast be immune to nerfs?

    Give me a good reason explain the reason why soulbeast technically shouldnt be nerfed with explanation on abilities dmg and how it works.

    Ranger receives nerfs all the times..like last patch applied nerfs and ofc these are not the class destroying nerfs you necro are looking for. What exactly are you looking for? A ranged designed class that does no relevant damage from range so that you can F1-F5 faceroll this class too like you do with the rest?

    -X player : can't counter necro at melee range

    -Necro player : bring cleanse you noob

    Player X bring cleanse

    -Necro player : too much cleanse in game

    -X player : can't counter necro at melee range

    -Necro player : bring cleanse you noob ..or avoid our aoe spam

    -X player: how can I avoid melee aoe spam while keeping pressure at melee range?

    -Necro player : go range you noob

    • X players : goes range

    -Necro player : too much damage from range

    • X player: drop the mouse and uninstall the game

    Necro community since 2012

    Really funny. While ranger also received a hard buff, necro only received nerfs last patch.

    And I'm not saying necro needs to be best at everything, that would be annoying to play.

    But you have to admit, that ranger damage is a bit over the top right now, doing 5-8, sometimes even 10k dmg with 1500 range autoattacks is a little bit too much and takes no actual skill.

    I'm really looking forward to a game, where skill actually matters, but thats sadly not the case for gw2 (at least not in most situations).

    Well we fought yesterday as a guild group of 24people against zone blobs with 60 people and we still won, that might have to do with us being better than our opponents, or maybe our builds just fit better together, than builds of random people in public zergs

    You may look forward for a more skilled game when they will delete insta cast aoe gameplay with no tell : mark spamming is anything but skilled as they are instant with no delay or tells like a staff ele, in a similar vein we have shades...the whole necro class is about insta cast aoe cleaving and for that reason is a newb favourite.

    Necro doesn't have a single instant cast aoe. And it's also got a tell added, that no other class in the game has.

    People hate necro because its gameplay is really non-sense : all necro players do is running in circle while spamming mark/shades on top on them as a general tactic, no real training required, anybody can do that and it takes 3x the skill level to overcome that so called strategy thus making a necro an extremely newb friendly class

    If you do think so, then you are not familiar with high skilled players and how easy it is to shut down scourges.

    Any melee player will have to dodge through his teeth while hoping to grace the necro with a hit, very few mistakes allowed..penalty : a kitten load of condis on you.

    Fun fact, I easily kill scourges with my reaper, without having many condicleanses.

    It all started in Dec 2014 with the Dhuumfire patch , suddenly loads of noname reached legend status ( in their mind ) as the build allowed them to become pvp gods over night , every game in Pvp was littered with dhuum necro at 2-3 per team...such fun; it all lasted for months till June 2015 where necro "got nerfed"...but that was only a sweet pill before Reaper release with Deathly chill.

    With reaper the problem got several times worst, the number of necros skyrocketed in pvp and wvw...again it was 2-3 reapers per match...same story till PoF launch with scourge and sand savant

    You want less condi clear? OK so let's downscale the gameplay to a point where a wrong step doesn't result in you being loaded by 6-7 condis and where a dodge actually counts...but right now a 5s CD mark trigger other traits for a cascade of condis on the enemy...and the mark is insta cast...yet necro players ask for less condi clear....kitten.

    Also...10k autoattacks?....Sometimes I got hit by a 8k spinal shiever while having 1.7k toughness , followed by a 4-5k life reap...ranger is not the only one using yolobuilds, the difference here is that the ranger is using a build which results in insta death once I get close...with necro I need to kite with my life on a thread..one miustake and I get critted by 12k combo

    Nice, you got hit by a huge tell skill, that has a fairly long cd. While autoattacks are spammable.
    And you were bad enough to stay in reapers range, while he may played full zerker.

    Sorry but reaper is a noob killer. If you got killed by one, he was clearly just way better than you.
    Reaper is more squishy than ever. If you go full zerker, you will get deleted by any other build or class.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    People play condis because they're way easier to be succesful with...the devs already stated that necro had the highet win rate in pvp and wvw is swamped by necro..."add diversity" my behind

    anet said REAPER has ONE OF highest win rates (there still can be 3 or 4 classes with higher and still 10-15 with just a Little less winrate - so this Statement was nearly without any Content). and reaper got barely played with condi. so your whole Statement here just wrong and shows how uninformed you are.

    also wvw is far away from being "swamped" by necros. in small scale you see nearly no necro, and in zergs its just 20% of all classes (1 per Group).

    you are obviously VERY toxic and People like you sadly destroying any Chance for a constructive, good discussion.

    The quantity of players using necro in gw2 is simply staggering and this translate into an undending wave of complain threads from necro/mesmer main to maintain the status quo alongside the periodical ranger nerf thread , the only class that stand as the last bastion of hope for the remaining playerbase....I mean if you see a ranger nerf thread on the forum must be from a necro main most likely or mesmer in few occasions.

    What kind of discussion is to be expected on this forum? Bias and self-interest are quite visible and any attempt of reasoning is twisted by word play , mockering and insults

    Personally i think you are being silly. If every other class takes hits and balanced, why should rangers be excluded if they need to be balanced? if anything, it sounds like you are a ranger main who is afraid of having your elite spec forced to become more skillful.

    Having a single class with tons of sustain and damage of top dps kind, is not good for the game.

    There is a reason why pvp is dying in this game, and its because having a class hard counter you to the point where you have zero chance to win is not fun. I hope ANET balances so that there is some chance to win versus another class regardless of being hard countered, so that you can out skill your opponent, now that would be good design.

    Tons of sustain?...Ranger survives the most by being at range and that something not going away anytime soon....

    I have seen soulbeast play, any idea how much as a reaper i would love to have the kinda mobility and sustain you have while im on reaper? yeah.

    You only have to give up all the aoe spam frenzy and see how that work for you it's easy really...oh wait you want to keep all the aoe spamm while getting mobility and sustain on top..sure I can't wait for you telling me that necro has no aoe dmg and it's the weakest class in the game , bottom tier everywhere

    Reaper is more of a melee ranged character than a aoe spamming guy like scourge, besides, we had our dmg nerfed and our sustain recently, and on top of that if you cc them and dmg them their shroud disappears in seconds and you get soul barbs which is a indicator screaming attack me now my shroud is down and im easy picking because i cannot get into shroud no more.

    Without sustain outside of shroud and a baby sitter they are instantly dead.

    The reason why its dead is simple 2 health bars versus infinite aegis invulns and evade spam vs 2 health bar, the invulns aegis and evade spam wins hands down.

    If you cannot get out of a area because you keep being cced, it doesnt matter, especially since classes nowadays can almost instantly burst you down, which is why soulbeast must take a hit.

    Reapers took a hit, scourge took a hit, warriors really took a hit with full counter, so tell me, why should soulbeast be immune to nerfs?

    Give me a good reason explain the reason why soulbeast technically shouldnt be nerfed with explanation on abilities dmg and how it works.

    Ranger receives nerfs all the times..like last patch applied nerfs and ofc these are not the class destroying nerfs you necro are looking for. What exactly are you looking for? A ranged designed class that does no relevant damage from range so that you can F1-F5 faceroll this class too like you do with the rest?

    -X player : can't counter necro at melee range

    -Necro player : bring cleanse you noob

    Player X bring cleanse

    -Necro player : too much cleanse in game

    -X player : can't counter necro at melee range

    -Necro player : bring cleanse you noob ..or avoid our aoe spam

    -X player: how can I avoid melee aoe spam while keeping pressure at melee range?

    -Necro player : go range you noob

    • X players : goes range

    -Necro player : too much damage from range

    • X player: drop the mouse and uninstall the game

    Necro community since 2012

    Really funny. While ranger also received a hard buff, necro only received nerfs last patch.

    And I'm not saying necro needs to be best at everything, that would be annoying to play.

    But you have to admit, that ranger damage is a bit over the top right now, doing 5-8, sometimes even 10k dmg with 1500 range autoattacks is a little bit too much and takes no actual skill.

    I'm really looking forward to a game, where skill actually matters, but thats sadly not the case for gw2 (at least not in most situations).

    Well we fought yesterday as a guild group of 24people against zone blobs with 60 people and we still won, that might have to do with us being better than our opponents, or maybe our builds just fit better together, than builds of random people in public zergs

    You may look forward for a more skilled game when they will delete insta cast aoe gameplay with no tell : mark spamming is anything but skilled as they are instant with no delay or tells like a staff ele, in a similar vein we have shades...the whole necro class is about insta cast aoe cleaving and for that reason is a newb favourite.

    People hate necro because its gameplay is really non-sense : all necro players do is running in circle while spamming mark/shades on top on them as a general tactic, no real training required, anybody can do that and it takes 3x the skill level to overcome that so called strategy thus making a necro an extremely newb friendly class

    Any melee player will have to dodge through his teeth while hoping to grace the necro with a hit, very few mistakes allowed..penalty : a kitten load of condis on you.

    It all started in Dec 2014 with the Dhuumfire patch , suddenly loads of noname reached legend status ( in their mind ) as the build allowed them to become pvp gods over night , every game in Pvp was littered with dhuum necro at 2-3 per team...such fun; it all lasted for months till June 2015 where necro "got nerfed"...but that was only a sweet pill before Reaper release with Deathly chill.

    With reaper the problem got several times worst, the number of necros skyrocketed in pvp and wvw...again it was 2-3 reapers per match...same story till PoF launch with scourge and sand savant

    You want less condi clear? OK so let's downscale the gameplay to a point where a wrong step doesn't result in you being loaded by 6-7 condis and where a dodge actually counts...but right now a 5s CD mark trigger other traits for a cascade of condis on the enemy...and the mark is insta cast...yet necro players ask for less condi clear....kitten.

    Also...10k autoattacks?....Sometimes I got hit by a 8k spinal shiever while having 1.7k toughness , followed by a 4-5k life reap...ranger is not the only one using yolobuilds, the difference here is that the ranger is using a build which results in insta death once I get close...with necro I need to kite with my life on a thread..one miustake and I get critted by 12k combo

    Its because in general damage is so high in spvp. Also chill got hit with the nerf bat already last patch pretty hard in pvp.

    The problem with scourge is different, they have far too much attached to one ability, making it super loaded. Having a ability that can turn boons into condis condis into boons Add boons And add condis to your enemies is too much loaded. Having so much makes the abilities hard to balance.

    It was a very poor choice, but necro isn't the only one suffering horrible consequences of those actions. Rangers with druid spec having a healer spec that was so strong in pve it was not only meta but mandatory, same for mesmers with chronomancers

    I heard druid was one of the best support in the past in pvp too, and it got nerfed, so design flaws are everywhere.

    No. People don't want mesmers to be useless, but having condi-application without doing anything is a real problem.
    Last week I fought a Condi mirage in wvw. He was very bad and I killed him with my necro. Still, I got so many conditions, while he just ran away. Because you know, it's pretty hard to dodge every autoattack of those clones.
    Also. Let's take scourge in a 1v1. It's pretty kitten easy to kill it, if you know, which attacks you have to avoid.
    While it's still very strong in teamfights (guild groups and zergs), when you get your back carried by firebrands. While sadly, boonshare mesmer got almost deleted from wvw zergs.
    But even then, scourge dmg got gutted so hard, that you have to play very offensive stats, while having no defense on your own.
    There's always pros and cons. The real problem we have, is anet not doing any useful skillsplits.
    Let's stay with the necro/mesmer comparison:
    Mesmer is still the most used support in high-end pve (raids).
    While necro is mediocre at best. Being the worst DPS class you could take. There's actually 2 bosses, where necro is meta: sabetha and soulless horror. But you don't take the necro for their damage, you take them for free addcleave.
    And let's not talk about support scourge. It's still underwhelming, and not a good choice as a support for good groups.
    And then there's PvP modes. Ok let's actually speak about wvw. Where mesmer is one of the best roaming classes (together with thief and ranger), but it's not so good in zergs anymore. It's utilities still make it useable though, while necro is just very good in zergs, because it has a lot of cleave and boon corrupt (even though I think it might need a little bit more due to how easy it is to get boons for most classes).
    And I think, that's all because there is no proper skillsplit.
    And it's not, because skillsplit is hard to do, but because anet seems to not want to. Not want to make professions play different in every gamemode.

    I was trying to point out that for the whole slow dmg dealing condi thing, you would literally have to nerf the dmg of both necro and mirage, and that condi is so bursty that it simply doesn't work the way it does in other MMOS because you have only a couple conditions at most and every class does the same one the other does.

    There is no unique condition that necro only can do. poison torment bleeed. Because everyone just adds the stacks up unlike lets say eq with unique timers on unique dots that are only applied by that said class, you have 4 people non stop applying 1 type of condition such as bleed. It also makes it impossible to know who is putting on those conditions, and yes they are a bit too common if you ask me.

    Its a two fold problem though that il admit isn't simple. You need condis with burst in pve for it to be viable, and that is one reason why mirage is successful, but if they burst in pvp, people will hate it because you cannot counter them easily since its almost insta cast abilities that cast 3 to 4 or more conditions at once.

    People want condis to be slow but how do you make it work in an environment where you got insta burst and non stop cleanses? You would need to rework how condis work for it to not burst, but for it to work, it would need to be for instance limited in pvp only how many stacks you can have, lets say max 10 stacks of bleed on one player and 3 or 4 burns, since bleed does almost no dmg in few stacks and needs quite a lot to hurt, but have its duration increased to 4 times the length, so it becomes a battle of attrition in pvp, but how will that work even if for instance that work if mirage didn't have its avoidances? it wouldn't so it would need to keep its survivability to see it, see what I mean? mirage is successful because it can burst with condis and because even if it couldn't it could live long enough to see the battle of attrition.

    Now we are talking. But if you make condis ramp up slowly, you also need to make Condi cleanses much weaker, or give classes less tools to cleanse condis, else those builds are completely dead.

    The overall power in PvP-modes just has to be tuned down, maybe with a debuff, that makes everyone do 10-20% less damage (Condi and power)

    Cause I think most Powerbuilds are overtuned as well. Like how is it fair, that you dodge the first high dmg-skill, dodge the second one as well, but the third one will completely delete you. That's also unhealthy for a game, but that's how gw2 works right now.

    Not to speak of dmg you can't even dodge because you can't see it coming (permastealth onehit deadeye)

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2019

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    You may look forward for a more skilled game when they will delete insta cast aoe gameplay with no tell : mark spamming is anything but skilled as they are instant with no delay or tells like a staff ele, in a similar vein we have shades...the whole necro class is about insta cast aoe cleaving and for that reason is a newb favourite.
    Also...10k autoattacks?....Sometimes I got hit by a 8k spinal shiever while having 1.7k toughness , followed by a 4-5k life reap...ranger is not the only one using yolobuilds, the difference here is that the ranger is using a build which results in insta death once I get close...with necro I need to kite with my life on a thread..one miustake and I get critted by 12k Combo

    spinal shivers has 1 sec casttime (why you dont dodge) and only hurt if you have boons up. no boons = no dmg
    4-5k life reap is less than 50% dmg ranger has on LB AA. with the difference ranger has 1500 range. reaper just melee.

    ranger insta death when you come close to it?
    1.) 2 x swoop 1000 range leap on 10 sec cd makes soulbeast to the 2nd fastest class in the game after thief. so who in hell is able to come close to you?
    2.) you forgot signet of Stone. lesser signet of Stone, you forgot GS 4 block, gs AA dodge that easily saves you 10+sec from being killed.
    3.) while no power class can dmg you because of invul, you can ez swap to GS and 30k one shot with maul.

    reaper on the other side has NO BLOCKS, NO INVULNS, is slowliest class in the game (so everyone can ez kite). reaper shroud is less worth than 1 stack aegis since classes can one shot you while you are in shroud. and of Course. Pressing sick em and than LB 2 for one shoot People is WAY more skillfull than reaper. sry, but everything you say is just wrong dude,

    you say mark is insta cast, but marks have 3/4 sec casttime.

    you say all aoe's of necro are insta cast without telling? sand shade = 1/2 sec casttime with HUGE obvious red Animation.
    also wells have 1/2 sec cast and hitting like wet noodle...
    and you are criticising necro Spikes of 12k dmg by using several skills and traits? WHILE rangers are spiking you with 40k+ by using max 3 skills? you are delusional…

    i mean everything you say can get summed up with. everything that necro does is OP for you, but while rangers doing 3 times of that is fine... People like you are the reason this game dies. your complaints lost any Connection to reality….

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2019

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    You may look forward for a more skilled game when they will delete insta cast aoe gameplay with no tell : mark spamming is anything but skilled as they are instant with no delay or tells like a staff ele, in a similar vein we have shades...the whole necro class is about insta cast aoe cleaving and for that reason is a newb favourite.
    Also...10k autoattacks?....Sometimes I got hit by a 8k spinal shiever while having 1.7k toughness , followed by a 4-5k life reap...ranger is not the only one using yolobuilds, the difference here is that the ranger is using a build which results in insta death once I get close...with necro I need to kite with my life on a thread..one miustake and I get critted by 12k Combo

    spinal shivers has 1 sec casttime (why you dont dodge) and only hurt if you have boons up. no boons = no dmg
    4-5k life reap is less than 50% dmg ranger has on LB AA. with the difference ranger has 1500 range. reaper just melee.

    ranger insta death when you come close to it?
    1.) 2 x swoop 1000 range leap on 10 sec cd makes soulbeast to the 2nd fastest class in the game after thief. so who in hell is able to come close to you?
    2.) you forgot signet of Stone. lesser signet of Stone, you forgot GS 4 block, gs AA dodge that easily saves you 10+sec from being killed.
    3.) while no power class can dmg you because of invul, you can ez swap to GS and 30k one shot with maul.

    reaper on the other side has NO BLOCKS, NO INVULNS, is slowliest class in the game (so everyone can ez kite). reaper shroud is less worth than 1 stack aegis since classes can one shot you while you are in shroud. and of Course. Pressing sick em and than LB 2 for one shoot People is WAY more skillfull than reaper. sry, but everything you say is just wrong dude,

    you say mark is insta cast, but marks have 3/4 sec casttime.

    you say all aoe's of necro are insta cast without telling? sand shade = 1/2 sec casttime with HUGE obvious red Animation.
    also wells have 1/2 sec cast and hitting like wet noodle...
    and you are criticising necro Spikes of 12k dmg by using several skills and traits? WHILE rangers are spiking you with 40k+ by using max 3 skills? you are delusional…

    i mean everything you say can get summed up with. everything that necro does is OP for you, but while rangers doing 3 times of that is fine... People like you are the reason this game dies. your complaints lost any Connection to reality….

    I have stopped reading at "ranger insta death" then trying to pass Sand shade cast time and animation as "HUGE obvious" ....you die to meme build, that alone says a lot and how you'd just keep asking for nerfs on anything that kills you till the time they shut down the servers. It seems a huge waste of time on your part , ranger it supposed to kill people at distance and no matter how much people dislike it...that's what supposed to be... so...you should be out there learning how to dodge a 2s channel skill instead than wasting time here on the forum asking pointlessly for sort of nerfs that will never come but also do realize that no matter how much you dodge..some rangers will still win in the end...it's called skill level difference, it's acquired through hours and hours of combat differently from running around in circle with a staff using 1-2-3-4-5 ; where ranger players had to learn how to dodge hard hitting skills in a split second...the majority of necro players only ever knew how to backpedal with that staff in their hands ...

    Just tell me one thing......How many platinum/legends necros with less than 300 hrs I would find right now?....it's a sad thing the devs won't release class stats after each season, it would stop many nerf threads from even appearing

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    You may look forward for a more skilled game when they will delete insta cast aoe gameplay with no tell : mark spamming is anything but skilled as they are instant with no delay or tells like a staff ele, in a similar vein we have shades...the whole necro class is about insta cast aoe cleaving and for that reason is a newb favourite.
    Also...10k autoattacks?....Sometimes I got hit by a 8k spinal shiever while having 1.7k toughness , followed by a 4-5k life reap...ranger is not the only one using yolobuilds, the difference here is that the ranger is using a build which results in insta death once I get close...with necro I need to kite with my life on a thread..one miustake and I get critted by 12k Combo

    spinal shivers has 1 sec casttime (why you dont dodge) and only hurt if you have boons up. no boons = no dmg
    4-5k life reap is less than 50% dmg ranger has on LB AA. with the difference ranger has 1500 range. reaper just melee.

    ranger insta death when you come close to it?
    1.) 2 x swoop 1000 range leap on 10 sec cd makes soulbeast to the 2nd fastest class in the game after thief. so who in hell is able to come close to you?
    2.) you forgot signet of Stone. lesser signet of Stone, you forgot GS 4 block, gs AA dodge that easily saves you 10+sec from being killed.
    3.) while no power class can dmg you because of invul, you can ez swap to GS and 30k one shot with maul.

    reaper on the other side has NO BLOCKS, NO INVULNS, is slowliest class in the game (so everyone can ez kite). reaper shroud is less worth than 1 stack aegis since classes can one shot you while you are in shroud. and of Course. Pressing sick em and than LB 2 for one shoot People is WAY more skillfull than reaper. sry, but everything you say is just wrong dude,

    you say mark is insta cast, but marks have 3/4 sec casttime.

    you say all aoe's of necro are insta cast without telling? sand shade = 1/2 sec casttime with HUGE obvious red Animation.
    also wells have 1/2 sec cast and hitting like wet noodle...
    and you are criticising necro Spikes of 12k dmg by using several skills and traits? WHILE rangers are spiking you with 40k+ by using max 3 skills? you are delusional…

    i mean everything you say can get summed up with. everything that necro does is OP for you, but while rangers doing 3 times of that is fine... People like you are the reason this game dies. your complaints lost any Connection to reality….

    I have stopped reading at "ranger insta death" then trying to pass Sand shade cast time and animation as "HUGE obvious" ....you die to meme build, that alone says a lot and how you'd just keep asking for nerfs on anything that kills you till the time they shut down the servers. It seems a huge waste of time on your part , ranger it supposed to kill people at distance and no matter how much people dislike it...that's what supposed to be... so...you should be out there learning how to dodge a 2s channel skill instead than wasting time here on the forum asking pointlessly for sort of nerfs that will never come but also do realize that no matter how much you dodge..some rangers will still win in the end...it's called skill level difference, it's acquired through hours and hours of combat differently from running around in circle with a staff using 1-2-3-4-5 ; where ranger players had to learn how to dodge hard hitting skills in a split second...the majority of necro players only ever knew how to backpedal with that staff in their hands ...

    Just tell me one thing......How many platinum/legends necros with less than 300 hrs I would find right now?....it's a sad thing the devs won't release class stats after each season, it would stop many nerf threads from even appearing

    sad that you just continue to make contentless Posts. staff dmg is so low that no one ever dies to it. while you still try to create a "balance discussion" with comments like:
    "this is easier than mine class" while your Statement is just subjective and the truth is, ranger is evenly ez to Play like necro, warrior or any other class in the game. but for balancing it is also just pointless because balancing is About Impact of skills and counter to skills. and in fact, Impact of ranger is massive with its current dmg while counterplay is limited to a few classes because sick em is pushing EVERY of your skills to burst skill Level for 10 seconds and not every class has 10 secs of invuln to counter that. but it is useless to dicuss with delusional persons like you.

    i countered every of your Claims in my last post and obviously showed that you are constantly bringing wrong informations in this thread (probably on Purpose). every of your Statements from your last post is only subjective and also didnt bring any FACT or prooven Information to the discussion.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2019

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    You may look forward for a more skilled game when they will delete insta cast aoe gameplay with no tell : mark spamming is anything but skilled as they are instant with no delay or tells like a staff ele, in a similar vein we have shades...the whole necro class is about insta cast aoe cleaving and for that reason is a newb favourite.
    Also...10k autoattacks?....Sometimes I got hit by a 8k spinal shiever while having 1.7k toughness , followed by a 4-5k life reap...ranger is not the only one using yolobuilds, the difference here is that the ranger is using a build which results in insta death once I get close...with necro I need to kite with my life on a thread..one miustake and I get critted by 12k Combo

    spinal shivers has 1 sec casttime (why you dont dodge) and only hurt if you have boons up. no boons = no dmg
    4-5k life reap is less than 50% dmg ranger has on LB AA. with the difference ranger has 1500 range. reaper just melee.

    ranger insta death when you come close to it?
    1.) 2 x swoop 1000 range leap on 10 sec cd makes soulbeast to the 2nd fastest class in the game after thief. so who in hell is able to come close to you?
    2.) you forgot signet of Stone. lesser signet of Stone, you forgot GS 4 block, gs AA dodge that easily saves you 10+sec from being killed.
    3.) while no power class can dmg you because of invul, you can ez swap to GS and 30k one shot with maul.

    reaper on the other side has NO BLOCKS, NO INVULNS, is slowliest class in the game (so everyone can ez kite). reaper shroud is less worth than 1 stack aegis since classes can one shot you while you are in shroud. and of Course. Pressing sick em and than LB 2 for one shoot People is WAY more skillfull than reaper. sry, but everything you say is just wrong dude,

    you say mark is insta cast, but marks have 3/4 sec casttime.

    you say all aoe's of necro are insta cast without telling? sand shade = 1/2 sec casttime with HUGE obvious red Animation.
    also wells have 1/2 sec cast and hitting like wet noodle...
    and you are criticising necro Spikes of 12k dmg by using several skills and traits? WHILE rangers are spiking you with 40k+ by using max 3 skills? you are delusional…

    i mean everything you say can get summed up with. everything that necro does is OP for you, but while rangers doing 3 times of that is fine... People like you are the reason this game dies. your complaints lost any Connection to reality….

    I have stopped reading at "ranger insta death" then trying to pass Sand shade cast time and animation as "HUGE obvious" ....you die to meme build, that alone says a lot and how you'd just keep asking for nerfs on anything that kills you till the time they shut down the servers. It seems a huge waste of time on your part , ranger it supposed to kill people at distance and no matter how much people dislike it...that's what supposed to be... so...you should be out there learning how to dodge a 2s channel skill instead than wasting time here on the forum asking pointlessly for sort of nerfs that will never come but also do realize that no matter how much you dodge..some rangers will still win in the end...it's called skill level difference, it's acquired through hours and hours of combat differently from running around in circle with a staff using 1-2-3-4-5 ; where ranger players had to learn how to dodge hard hitting skills in a split second...the majority of necro players only ever knew how to backpedal with that staff in their hands ...

    Just tell me one thing......How many platinum/legends necros with less than 300 hrs I would find right now?....it's a sad thing the devs won't release class stats after each season, it would stop many nerf threads from even appearing

    sad that you just continue to make contentless Posts. staff dmg is so low that no one ever dies to it. while you still try to create a "balance discussion" with comments like:
    "this is easier than mine class" while your Statement is just subjective and the truth is, ranger is evenly ez to Play like necro, warrior or any other class in the game. but for balancing it is also just pointless because balancing is About Impact of skills and counter to skills. and in fact, Impact of ranger is massive with its current dmg while counterplay is limited to a few classes because sick em is pushing EVERY of your skills to burst skill Level for 10 seconds and not every class has 10 secs of invuln to counter that. but it is useless to dicuss with delusional persons like you.

    i countered every of your Claims in my last post and obviously showed that you are constantly bringing wrong informations in this thread (probably on Purpose). every of your Statements from your last post is only subjective and also didnt bring any FACT or prooven Information to the discussion.

    You only resort to verbal assaults and demeaning comments at this point so this will be the last post direct to you....the claim that a single target blockable/obstractable attack from a glass cannon , can in any shape or form outperform massive aoe stackakble/unblockable/usable without LoS....it's simply ridicolous...the day I will die to a glass cannon ranger on any class I play will be the day I uninstall the game for good....nobody with more than 50 hrs gameplay experience should die to more than 10% rangers in game using a glass cannon build.....as I have stated majority of necro players can only backpedal while spamming that staff, that tactic alone brought them many victories and with it the assumption of acquired game knowledge.

    At the very least GW2 wiki is there for better education : ranger has no invulnerability yes the amount of disinformation in this thread is staggering but again the devs know better so I don't really care and btw rangers cannot run with 5 traitlines or equip 3-4 pets at the same time

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

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