a wild hypothesis of the of the water dragon — Guild Wars 2 Forums

a wild hypothesis of the of the water dragon

With its minions being described as "tentacled horrors" and the concept art "tsunami" by Daniel Dociu, here's an idea what the dragon might look like. It could be a colossal octopus but at the end of each tentacle is a dragon head. Like an octopus, the dragon heads have their own mind like a real octopus however, as long as they are connected to the primary body, they are under the central body's will. This leaves a question though. Can a severed tentacle turn on its master? Possibly not with Mordremoth's essence. Still it would be cool to have a less dragon like Elder dragon with some draconic anatomy. It still needs a unique elaborate weakness

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Comments

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In all seriousness though, I like the idea of it being very unlike a classic Dragon or lacking a lot of what people instantly Dragons to look like. I'm not sure I can accept the idea of a classic style Dragon in such a deep place.

    And tentacled horrors are always a good place to start from

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Veluna.7316Veluna.7316 Member ✭✭
    edited December 27, 2018

    The other thing too is what sort of enemy would it be with the amount of energy it absorbed from Mordremoth, Zhaitan, and possibly Kralkatorik possibly.

    Imagine the Elite Branded Rotting Mordrem Wet Tentacle lol

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    In all seriousness though, I like the idea of it being very unlike a classic Dragon or lacking a lot of what people instantly Dragons to look like. I'm not sure I can accept the idea of a classic style Dragon in such a deep place.

    And tentacled horrors are always a good place to start from

    to be honest all ive ever pictured since i read about what its minions looked like was...a typical dragons body with tentacles in place of its wings and legs.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2018

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    In all seriousness though, I like the idea of it being very unlike a classic Dragon or lacking a lot of what people instantly Dragons to look like. I'm not sure I can accept the idea of a classic style Dragon in such a deep place.

    And tentacled horrors are always a good place to start from

    to be honest all ive ever pictured since i read about what its minions looked like was...a typical dragons body with tentacles in place of its wings and legs.

    Ive a,lways placeheld it with this

    https://i.imgur.com/p892zp3_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Ceit.7619 said:
    It would be a funny twist to me if we kill Kralkatorrik, and then Selbbub absorbs branding power, and turns the entire ocean solid in response, like the Jade Sea.

    it would only be able to brand where it swims. We've yet to see the nature of dragonbrand underwater

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2018

    @Yitsul.8342 said:
    It could be a colossal octopus but at the end of each tentacle is a dragon head.

    So basically a water Zhaitan then.

    Eh, I'd not have rehashes of previous boss designs for the Elder Dragons.

    I've always liked the idea of it being a more traditional multiheaded dragon. Perhaps ever since I saw this concept art by Kekai Kotaki that might be fore the DSD or one of its champions. Probably a champion, but still that kind of Siamese-dragon appearance (or more accurately, a polycephaly dragon) feels far more original than Cthulhu-dragon or Water Zhaitan.

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    In all seriousness though, I like the idea of it being very unlike a classic Dragon or lacking a lot of what people instantly Dragons to look like. I'm not sure I can accept the idea of a classic style Dragon in such a deep place.

    And tentacled horrors are always a good place to start from

    to be honest all ive ever pictured since i read about what its minions looked like was...a typical dragons body with tentacles in place of its wings and legs.

    That's kind of what I pictured Primordus to be, given his GW1 model having tendril-like appendages coming out of his shoulders instead of any visible joints for forearms or wings. You can see four of these tendrils on the gww's image of Primordus. And from some of the images here we can see two more. So instead of wings and forearms, it looks like the original design of Primordus had him with six+ tendrils at his shoulder area.

    And they tossed that potentially-super-creepy fully unique design for a kitten generic lava dragon design like what Deathwing from WoW or hell, what shows up if I just google "lava dragon". And why? Only complaints might have been "it's small" (which makes kitten sense given its location, its current size would demand it to be the entirety of freaking KRYTA from Brisban to Shiverpeaks!) or "it looks too much like Glint" (oh wow, an Elder Dragon looks similar to the child of another Elder Dragon. Heck, just make Primordus the mommy dragon and call it a day? Who the heck was Glint's mom anyways? Or Aurene's father for that matter! Are dragons asexual reproducers?).

    Mini-ranting aside, I really wish someone could pull out Primordus' model so we could see it without the rocks that go through Primordus and that it blends in so freaking well with.

    @Yitsul.8342 said:

    @Ceit.7619 said:
    It would be a funny twist to me if we kill Kralkatorrik, and then Selbbub absorbs branding power, and turns the entire ocean solid in response, like the Jade Sea.

    it would only be able to brand where it swims. We've yet to see the nature of dragonbrand underwater

    Erm... We got two large lakes in Ascalon countering that statement. And the remains of the dammed Elon Riverlands in Vabbi further countering that.

    Water is more or less unaffected, while the ground underwater and the fish very much are.

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  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Name it Hydrapus.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Maybe it should drop any hint of dragon-ness and just be a giant living whirlpool that constantly manifests sea-life-inspired eyes, mouths, and tentacles from its sides, ripping and destroying whatever gets caught in its grip as it is inexorably dragged down to the hungry abyss at the bottom. Sort of like Cthulhu, Charybdis, and the Sarlacc had a baby.

    It might sound like it isn't much of a threat on land, but I assume if it did come on land, it would take the form of a colossal water sharknado.

  • Am I the only one who thinks that the design of a sea serpent/hydra/leviathan may be far more fitting than any tentacled abomination could ever hope to be?
    From a mythological point of view this may be more familiar, being closer to a standard dragon, but also far more appropriate than trying to go after weirdness for its own sake.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Castigator.3470 said:
    Am I the only one who thinks that the design of a sea serpent/hydra/leviathan may be far more fitting than any tentacled abomination could ever hope to be?
    From a mythological point of view this may be more familiar, being closer to a standard dragon, but also far more appropriate than trying to go after weirdness for its own sake.

    Not at all and you are prob closer to the mark in all honesty. I think there's just an appetite for something different though and with the only real know background of the DSD being this line from The Movement of the World;

    In the deepest waters of the sea, another dragon breathed, twisting the waters themselves into tentacled horrors that rose from every lake and river of the land

    It is only natural for the mind to continue that on a larger scale to its source.

    The popularity and influence of Cthulhu/Mythos literature helps lend a bit of credence to the imagining of such an abomination as well and anyone who has played Secret World knows how well such things can translate to an MMO

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Yitsul.8342Yitsul.8342 Member ✭✭
    edited December 29, 2018

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Name it Hydrapus.

    Sefalopoda

  • MurkWan.8526MurkWan.8526 Member ✭✭
    edited December 29, 2018

    Redesign the wings where the bones being slimy long tentacles with its own heads and the flaps being fin like mechanism.
    Basically, a huge hydra/tentacle/dragon monster hybrid that is massive. I want it to be like, mind-bogglingly massive. I am talking about a scale of one of bubbles eye should be bigger than a pact airship.

  • I keep picturing something like a world-serpent mixed with an eel, but that's perhaps too similar to Kralkatorrik and mouth of Mordremoth in terms of body structure. Maybe like a giant underwater centipede like d80f3d3d6f07c189440cbe5cde6618e7.jpg

  • @Veluna.7316 said:
    The other thing too is what sort of enemy would it be with the amount of energy it absorbed from Mordremoth, Zhaitan, and possibly Kralkatorik possibly.

    Imagine the Elite Branded Rotting Mordrem Wet Tentacle lol

    then it would be like Orochi from Okami but with an octopus head.

  • Ronin.7381Ronin.7381 Member ✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    Tentacles just gives me Mora vibes

    That and maybe I'd like to see something more Love Craftian for a creature that dwells in the deep where the Sun never reaches it.

  • I was always hoping for the water dragon to have a Lovecraft vibe. Just imagine, 30,000 below the sea level where no light reaches and you just can't imagine what lurks in the darkness oh that horror. Just like the Leviathan expansion for Mass Effect 3.

  • I don't know about the rest of the body, but in my mind, the Deep Sea Dragon absolutely needs to have two features:

    1. Anglerfish-like mouth and teeth
    2. Bio-luminescence. Probably capable of being turned off and on.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    2. Bio-luminescence. Probably capable of being turned off and on.

    What if that bio-luminescence is the only way we could even see it when we first see/fight it?

    If we fight it in the water depths, it could be the sheer darkness of the ocean that has it eluding our sight. But if it's fought in the surface, it could have Zhaitan's domain of shadow to be spreading darkness so it can't be seen. Maybe it doesn't even like sunlight (would make it opposite of Kralkatorrik, who's secondary domain I still think is Sky/Air, and involves sun magic based on the Zephyrites' who're based off of Glint).

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  • I think the perfect design would be an oversized Quaggan. Big and cuddly, until it tries to kill you. The dissonance between looks and behaviour - I'd like that.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    2. Bio-luminescence. Probably capable of being turned off and on.

    What if that bio-luminescence is the only way we could even see it when we first see/fight it?

    If we fight it in the water depths, it could be the sheer darkness of the ocean that has it eluding our sight. But if it's fought in the surface, it could have Zhaitan's domain of shadow to be spreading darkness so it can't be seen. Maybe it doesn't even like sunlight (would make it opposite of Kralkatorrik, who's secondary domain I still think is Sky/Air, and involves sun magic based on the Zephyrites' who're based off of Glint).

    Swim into a dark underwater cave to fight it, bringing Pact submarines along with. Swim deeper and deeper into the dark water before a lamp finally reveals the tip of its nose.

    Then, its face starts to glow, brightening the cavern. Already terrified by being so close to the monster, you almost don't realize the lines of light continuing down it's neck, speeding up as you see light racing all around the cavern.

    You didn't swim into a cave. You swam into its coils.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • Knuckle Joe.7408Knuckle Joe.7408 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2019

    I wish that they make it with a plesiosaur, pliosaur or a mosasaur based model. I feel those things were by far the most terrorizing sea creatures that ever lived. Add luminescence to it like someone else described and it would be amazing. Also massive and full of crustaceans, barnacles and other sea creatures attached to it.

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭

    When it finally appears, it better not ask for no tree fiddy!

  • @Knuckle Joe.7408 said:
    I wish that they make it with a plesiosaur, pliosaur or a mosasaur based model. I feel those things were by far the most terrorizing sea creatures that ever lived. Add luminescence to it like someone else described and it would be amazing. Also massive and full of crustaceans, barnacles and other sea creatures attached to it.

    So taking visual cues from the mosasaurus, but long, like a snake, a head like a sea dragon and bioluminescence in a similar manner to a Ghost Leviathan from Subnautica?

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2019

    @Castigator.3470 said:

    @Knuckle Joe.7408 said:
    I wish that they make it with a plesiosaur, pliosaur or a mosasaur based model. I feel those things were by far the most terrorizing sea creatures that ever lived. Add luminescence to it like someone else described and it would be amazing. Also massive and full of crustaceans, barnacles and other sea creatures attached to it.

    So taking visual cues from the mosasaurus, but long, like a snake, a head like a sea dragon and bioluminescence in a similar manner to a Ghost Leviathan from Subnautica?

    What I visualize:

    • Multiple long necks and draconian heads like a hydra. We've already got some concept art of that.
    • Sea turtle kind of body with shell and flippers. Bioluminescence and sea growth all over; this critter has been resting in the sea for thousands of years, so its body should pretty much be a living coral reef.
    • Draconian tail ending in big scaly flukes for ship-wrecking tail smashes and terrifying bursts of speed.
    • Heads and tail can retract into the shell. That's basically how it was resting on the ocean floor; if we could have gone down and seen it, it would have looked like an undersea mountain or reef with all the growth on it.
    • Huge, of course. We're talking "each head can swallow a Charr submarine whole" kind of huge. There's you a cutscene for a trailer...
    • Hundreds of feet long for sure, maybe even as big as Kralk. On the surface, it would leave a wake big enough to capsize ships. And if it breached like a whale (which it can) it could easily sink an entire fleet, or even cause a local tsunami. Again, there's already some concept art in that direction.
    • Something that big needs a lot of depth to submerge, so defeating it could involve luring it into water too shallow for it to just go under and hide.
    • Which could also be explained as water shallow enough to fight in; after all, real combat submarines today have max depths only a few times their length. Unless ANet wants to take the "It's Magic!" excuse to a whole new level, we're not going 6000 fathoms down to fight this thing. Though I can imagine something like the Bitter Cold in Bitterfrost, where the deep ocean is a hazardous environment that we have to create a solution to get to...
  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2019

    For me they can do anything provided they do not over-reuse certain themes and aesthetics:

    -Caribbean pirate atmosphere.
    -The Zhaitan campaign has a lot of ship and water theme, they should be careful not to turn it into a Zhaitan 2.0
    -Deserts.

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • I'm actually hoping it won't have a single body, especially after sucking up Mordremoth's wide-spreading influence. Give me a teeming school of minion fish that occasionally takes the shape of other things when it attacks, maybe capable of spitting out exploding starfish that adhere to enemy vessels.

  • @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    For me they can do anything provided they do not over-reuse certain themes and aesthetics:

    -Caribbean pirate atmosphere.
    -The Zhaitan campaign has a lot of ship and water theme, they should be careful not to turn it into a Zhaitan 2.0
    -Deserts.

    I would add onto it, not duplicating Abaddon themes, unless it's intentional to indicate Abaddon had a relation to the DSD (which goes against what they set up so I doubt it).

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  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    For me they can do anything provided they do not over-reuse certain themes and aesthetics:

    -Caribbean pirate atmosphere.
    -The Zhaitan campaign has a lot of ship and water theme, they should be careful not to turn it into a Zhaitan 2.0
    -Deserts.

    IMO a Caribbean pirate expansion would be amazing, but better as another deep sea/islands expansion

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭

    "Caribbean pirate" theme is what Lion's Arch was when GW2 first came out. A lot of us would like to see it come back, but not at the cost of the same horrors that Scarlet brought.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    For me they can do anything provided they do not over-reuse certain themes and aesthetics:

    -Caribbean pirate atmosphere.
    -The Zhaitan campaign has a lot of ship and water theme, they should be careful not to turn it into a Zhaitan 2.0
    -Deserts.

    IMO a Caribbean pirate expansion would be amazing, but better as another deep sea/islands expansion

    Entire Orr landscape and mobs(the risen here is our version of "zombies pirates" ) + battling zaithan undead ships + Lions Arch wasnt enough?

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    For me they can do anything provided they do not over-reuse certain themes and aesthetics:

    -Caribbean pirate atmosphere.
    -The Zhaitan campaign has a lot of ship and water theme, they should be careful not to turn it into a Zhaitan 2.0
    -Deserts.

    IMO a Caribbean pirate expansion would be amazing, but better as another deep sea/islands expansion

    Entire Orr landscape and mobs(the risen here is our version of "zombies pirates" ) + battling zaithan undead ships + Lions Arch wasnt enough?

    I was thinking more pirates of the Caribbean type thing with tropical islands and treasures, curses, pirate crews. Siren’s reef fractal was pretty much what I wanted, now if only if were an expansion with 5+ maps

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • Gern.2978Gern.2978 Member ✭✭

    I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gern.2978 said:
    I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

    If we have to tie the elder dragons to something beyond what we already know them to be, I’d rather it at least not be directly related to the gods of one race, just because there are 6 of each. I would rather see a plot written for this especially than a forced one. They could be tied to the mists, as beings created by a new level of entity from beyond tyria, but to keep tyria balanced. And us killing the dragons pissed it off and there we have a new plot. Just off the top of my head, but the main point is that hopefully they don’t related to The Six.

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2019

    @Gern.2978 said:
    I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

    ArenaNet has already debunked the potential connection between the Elder Dragons and the Six, about half a dozen times over.

    At this point, the only connection the two groups may have is that the Six fulfilled the role of balancing their homeworld's antikythera / The All just as the Elder Dragons do for Tyria. If so, then there's a potential issue with having beings that share magic rather than hoard it, as I don't think the Six count as hoarders (or maybe they did but in a non-lethal/civilization destroying manner and they didn't yet know the ramifications, and that's why the Forgotten press for beings that share?).

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  • norbes.3620norbes.3620 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Gern.2978 said:
    I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

    ArenaNet has already debunked the potential connection between the Elder Dragons and the Six, about half a dozen times over.

    At this point, the only connection the two groups may have is that the Six fulfilled the role of balancing their homeworld's antikythera / The All just as the Elder Dragons do for Tyria. If so, then there's a potential issue with having beings that share magic rather than hoard it, as I don't think the Six count as hoarders (or maybe they did but in a non-lethal/civilization destroying manner and they didn't yet know the ramifications, and that's why the Forgotten press for beings that share?).

    Well we DO know that the six were forced to leave their homeworld and took a good share from the local civilisation along with them.

    we DONT know why they had to leave that place. only that it was near destruction of some Kind. no reason, no why, nothing beyond that so it could indeed be possible that the six are related to the destruction of that world. im not even sure if the word "destruction" is mentioned. but nevertheless it's still some Kind of catastrophy wich is.. not Holding much Information cuz thats indeed pretty vague

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2019

    @norbes.3620 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Gern.2978 said:
    I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

    ArenaNet has already debunked the potential connection between the Elder Dragons and the Six, about half a dozen times over.

    At this point, the only connection the two groups may have is that the Six fulfilled the role of balancing their homeworld's antikythera / The All just as the Elder Dragons do for Tyria. If so, then there's a potential issue with having beings that share magic rather than hoard it, as I don't think the Six count as hoarders (or maybe they did but in a non-lethal/civilization destroying manner and they didn't yet know the ramifications, and that's why the Forgotten press for beings that share?).

    Well we DO know that the six were forced to leave their homeworld and took a good share from the local civilisation along with them.

    we DONT know why they had to leave that place. only that it was near destruction of some Kind. no reason, no why, nothing beyond that so it could indeed be possible that the six are related to the destruction of that world. im not even sure if the word "destruction" is mentioned. but nevertheless it's still some Kind of catastrophy wich is.. not Holding much Information cuz thats indeed pretty vague

    Technically, we don't know any of that. We know they brought humans and Forgotten, but we don't know why they left. It's speculation from suggestions that the world was in devastation or facing catastrophy. And players got that from the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_ScrollsOrrian History Scrolls which state:

    1. That Dwayna chose Tyria and "brought those who would make [it] a paradise" and that she had "led her people to peace."
    2. That Balthazar entered the world carrying his father's head.
    3. While the other five focused on building a home Lyssa "gave them joy and helped them forget the past" with it being unclear if "them" refers to humanity, the gods, or both.
    4. That "what passed beyond in the Mists, only [Abaddon] remember[s]."
    • This suggests some sort of calamity or war, as Dwayna wouldn't be coming from a paradise to seek a paradise, she wouldn't be coming from peaceful lands to lead people to peace.
    • Balthazar carrying his father's head has unclear context - did Balthazar kill him and he carried the head in brutal victory? Was his father killed and he carried the head as a memento mori of past failures? Some other reason?
    • Lyssa's line suggests that whatever happened in the past, it was traumatizing, otherwise forgetting the past wouldn't bring joy. Yet only Abaddon (and now Kormir given she gained his knowledge) knows what happened then. Incidentally, Abaddon was the only one who was so gung ho for spreading magic, so maybe that was related to what happened.

    Point being, we do not know it was some calamity or destruction. It could have been just constant strife and war the gods tired of. Though it is suggested to be something major for six nigh all-powerful beings to take two species and leave it instead of settling matters. But we don't know they "had to leave", just that they did leave.

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  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @norbes.3620 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Gern.2978 said:
    I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

    ArenaNet has already debunked the potential connection between the Elder Dragons and the Six, about half a dozen times over.

    At this point, the only connection the two groups may have is that the Six fulfilled the role of balancing their homeworld's antikythera / The All just as the Elder Dragons do for Tyria. If so, then there's a potential issue with having beings that share magic rather than hoard it, as I don't think the Six count as hoarders (or maybe they did but in a non-lethal/civilization destroying manner and they didn't yet know the ramifications, and that's why the Forgotten press for beings that share?).

    Well we DO know that the six were forced to leave their homeworld and took a good share from the local civilisation along with them.

    we DONT know why they had to leave that place. only that it was near destruction of some Kind. no reason, no why, nothing beyond that so it could indeed be possible that the six are related to the destruction of that world. im not even sure if the word "destruction" is mentioned. but nevertheless it's still some Kind of catastrophy wich is.. not Holding much Information cuz thats indeed pretty vague

    Technically, we don't know any of that. We know they brought humans and Forgotten, but we don't know why they left. It's speculation from suggestions that the world was in devastation or facing catastrophy. And players got that from the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_ScrollsOrrian History Scrolls which state:

    1. That Dwayna chose Tyria and "brought those who would make [it] a paradise" and that she had "led her people to peace."
    2. That Balthazar entered the world carrying his father's head.
    3. While the other five focused on building a home Lyssa "gave them joy and helped them forget the past" with it being unclear if "them" refers to humanity, the gods, or both.
    4. That "what passed beyond in the Mists, only [Abaddon] remember[s]."
    • This suggests some sort of calamity or war, as Dwayna wouldn't be coming from a paradise to seek a paradise, she wouldn't be coming from peaceful lands to lead people to peace.
    • Balthazar carrying his father's head has unclear context - did Balthazar kill him and he carried the head in brutal victory? Was his father killed and he carried the head as a memento mori of past failures? Some other reason?
    • Lyssa's line suggests that whatever happened in the past, it was traumatizing, otherwise forgetting the past wouldn't bring joy. Yet only Abaddon (and now Kormir given she gained his knowledge) knows what happened then. Incidentally, Abaddon was the only one who was so gung ho for spreading magic, so maybe that was related to what happened.

    Point being, we do not know it was some calamity or destruction. It could have been just constant strife and war the gods tired of. Though it is suggested to be something major for six nigh all-powerful beings to take two species and leave it instead of settling matters. But we don't know they "had to leave", just that they did leave.

    Did they bring the forgotten though? I thought the forgotten were part of the Elder Races, with the Mursaat, Seers, Jotun and Dwarves. Even the Mursaat tablets in ember bay advised that the forgotten and Mursaat attempted to defeat Zhaitan and failed.

  • Something like this, maybe?

    Underwater creatures tend to be very different from terrestrial ones. If there is an undersea dragon, I think that it too would be very different.

    Hand tentacles, mmmm!

    Do you want a balanced GW2? Then you are obliged to unironically agree with this suggestion!

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @norbes.3620 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Gern.2978 said:
    I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

    ArenaNet has already debunked the potential connection between the Elder Dragons and the Six, about half a dozen times over.

    At this point, the only connection the two groups may have is that the Six fulfilled the role of balancing their homeworld's antikythera / The All just as the Elder Dragons do for Tyria. If so, then there's a potential issue with having beings that share magic rather than hoard it, as I don't think the Six count as hoarders (or maybe they did but in a non-lethal/civilization destroying manner and they didn't yet know the ramifications, and that's why the Forgotten press for beings that share?).

    Well we DO know that the six were forced to leave their homeworld and took a good share from the local civilisation along with them.

    we DONT know why they had to leave that place. only that it was near destruction of some Kind. no reason, no why, nothing beyond that so it could indeed be possible that the six are related to the destruction of that world. im not even sure if the word "destruction" is mentioned. but nevertheless it's still some Kind of catastrophy wich is.. not Holding much Information cuz thats indeed pretty vague

    Technically, we don't know any of that. We know they brought humans and Forgotten, but we don't know why they left. It's speculation from suggestions that the world was in devastation or facing catastrophy. And players got that from the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_ScrollsOrrian History Scrolls which state:

    1. That Dwayna chose Tyria and "brought those who would make [it] a paradise" and that she had "led her people to peace."
    2. That Balthazar entered the world carrying his father's head.
    3. While the other five focused on building a home Lyssa "gave them joy and helped them forget the past" with it being unclear if "them" refers to humanity, the gods, or both.
    4. That "what passed beyond in the Mists, only [Abaddon] remember[s]."
    • This suggests some sort of calamity or war, as Dwayna wouldn't be coming from a paradise to seek a paradise, she wouldn't be coming from peaceful lands to lead people to peace.
    • Balthazar carrying his father's head has unclear context - did Balthazar kill him and he carried the head in brutal victory? Was his father killed and he carried the head as a memento mori of past failures? Some other reason?
    • Lyssa's line suggests that whatever happened in the past, it was traumatizing, otherwise forgetting the past wouldn't bring joy. Yet only Abaddon (and now Kormir given she gained his knowledge) knows what happened then. Incidentally, Abaddon was the only one who was so gung ho for spreading magic, so maybe that was related to what happened.

    Point being, we do not know it was some calamity or destruction. It could have been just constant strife and war the gods tired of. Though it is suggested to be something major for six nigh all-powerful beings to take two species and leave it instead of settling matters. But we don't know they "had to leave", just that they did leave.

    Did they bring the forgotten though? I thought the forgotten were part of the Elder Races, with the Mursaat, Seers, Jotun and Dwarves. Even the Mursaat tablets in ember bay advised that the forgotten and Mursaat attempted to defeat Zhaitan and failed.

    They are part of the Elder Races, but are not native to Tyria

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forgotten

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @norbes.3620 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Gern.2978 said:
    I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

    ArenaNet has already debunked the potential connection between the Elder Dragons and the Six, about half a dozen times over.

    At this point, the only connection the two groups may have is that the Six fulfilled the role of balancing their homeworld's antikythera / The All just as the Elder Dragons do for Tyria. If so, then there's a potential issue with having beings that share magic rather than hoard it, as I don't think the Six count as hoarders (or maybe they did but in a non-lethal/civilization destroying manner and they didn't yet know the ramifications, and that's why the Forgotten press for beings that share?).

    Well we DO know that the six were forced to leave their homeworld and took a good share from the local civilisation along with them.

    we DONT know why they had to leave that place. only that it was near destruction of some Kind. no reason, no why, nothing beyond that so it could indeed be possible that the six are related to the destruction of that world. im not even sure if the word "destruction" is mentioned. but nevertheless it's still some Kind of catastrophy wich is.. not Holding much Information cuz thats indeed pretty vague

    Technically, we don't know any of that. We know they brought humans and Forgotten, but we don't know why they left. It's speculation from suggestions that the world was in devastation or facing catastrophy. And players got that from the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_ScrollsOrrian History Scrolls which state:

    1. That Dwayna chose Tyria and "brought those who would make [it] a paradise" and that she had "led her people to peace."
    2. That Balthazar entered the world carrying his father's head.
    3. While the other five focused on building a home Lyssa "gave them joy and helped them forget the past" with it being unclear if "them" refers to humanity, the gods, or both.
    4. That "what passed beyond in the Mists, only [Abaddon] remember[s]."
    • This suggests some sort of calamity or war, as Dwayna wouldn't be coming from a paradise to seek a paradise, she wouldn't be coming from peaceful lands to lead people to peace.
    • Balthazar carrying his father's head has unclear context - did Balthazar kill him and he carried the head in brutal victory? Was his father killed and he carried the head as a memento mori of past failures? Some other reason?
    • Lyssa's line suggests that whatever happened in the past, it was traumatizing, otherwise forgetting the past wouldn't bring joy. Yet only Abaddon (and now Kormir given she gained his knowledge) knows what happened then. Incidentally, Abaddon was the only one who was so gung ho for spreading magic, so maybe that was related to what happened.

    Point being, we do not know it was some calamity or destruction. It could have been just constant strife and war the gods tired of. Though it is suggested to be something major for six nigh all-powerful beings to take two species and leave it instead of settling matters. But we don't know they "had to leave", just that they did leave.

    Did they bring the forgotten though? I thought the forgotten were part of the Elder Races, with the Mursaat, Seers, Jotun and Dwarves. Even the Mursaat tablets in ember bay advised that the forgotten and Mursaat attempted to defeat Zhaitan and failed.

    They are part of the Elder Races, but are not native to Tyria

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forgotten

    Yeah, no, but what I’m saying is was it ever confirmed that the gods brought the forgotten to Tyria in the first place or was it part of the rewritten history.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @norbes.3620 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Gern.2978 said:
    I'm eager for just about ANY information concerning the water dragon. Because it's the last piece of the puzzle. It will either confirm or deny that there is some kind of relationship between the Elder Dragons and The Six.

    ArenaNet has already debunked the potential connection between the Elder Dragons and the Six, about half a dozen times over.

    At this point, the only connection the two groups may have is that the Six fulfilled the role of balancing their homeworld's antikythera / The All just as the Elder Dragons do for Tyria. If so, then there's a potential issue with having beings that share magic rather than hoard it, as I don't think the Six count as hoarders (or maybe they did but in a non-lethal/civilization destroying manner and they didn't yet know the ramifications, and that's why the Forgotten press for beings that share?).

    Well we DO know that the six were forced to leave their homeworld and took a good share from the local civilisation along with them.

    we DONT know why they had to leave that place. only that it was near destruction of some Kind. no reason, no why, nothing beyond that so it could indeed be possible that the six are related to the destruction of that world. im not even sure if the word "destruction" is mentioned. but nevertheless it's still some Kind of catastrophy wich is.. not Holding much Information cuz thats indeed pretty vague

    Technically, we don't know any of that. We know they brought humans and Forgotten, but we don't know why they left. It's speculation from suggestions that the world was in devastation or facing catastrophy. And players got that from the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_ScrollsOrrian History Scrolls which state:

    1. That Dwayna chose Tyria and "brought those who would make [it] a paradise" and that she had "led her people to peace."
    2. That Balthazar entered the world carrying his father's head.
    3. While the other five focused on building a home Lyssa "gave them joy and helped them forget the past" with it being unclear if "them" refers to humanity, the gods, or both.
    4. That "what passed beyond in the Mists, only [Abaddon] remember[s]."
    • This suggests some sort of calamity or war, as Dwayna wouldn't be coming from a paradise to seek a paradise, she wouldn't be coming from peaceful lands to lead people to peace.
    • Balthazar carrying his father's head has unclear context - did Balthazar kill him and he carried the head in brutal victory? Was his father killed and he carried the head as a memento mori of past failures? Some other reason?
    • Lyssa's line suggests that whatever happened in the past, it was traumatizing, otherwise forgetting the past wouldn't bring joy. Yet only Abaddon (and now Kormir given she gained his knowledge) knows what happened then. Incidentally, Abaddon was the only one who was so gung ho for spreading magic, so maybe that was related to what happened.

    Point being, we do not know it was some calamity or destruction. It could have been just constant strife and war the gods tired of. Though it is suggested to be something major for six nigh all-powerful beings to take two species and leave it instead of settling matters. But we don't know they "had to leave", just that they did leave.

    Did they bring the forgotten though? I thought the forgotten were part of the Elder Races, with the Mursaat, Seers, Jotun and Dwarves. Even the Mursaat tablets in ember bay advised that the forgotten and Mursaat attempted to defeat Zhaitan and failed.

    They are part of the Elder Races, but are not native to Tyria

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forgotten

    Yeah, no, but what I’m saying is was it ever confirmed that the gods brought the forgotten to Tyria in the first place or was it part of the rewritten history.

    The most recent lore is that they A.) served the Five and B.) came from the Mists, but no word on whether they were still specifically brought to Tyria by the Six.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • @Tyson.5160 said:
    Did they bring the forgotten though? I thought the forgotten were part of the Elder Races, with the Mursaat, Seers, Jotun and Dwarves. Even the Mursaat tablets in ember bay advised that the forgotten and Mursaat attempted to defeat Zhaitan and failed.

    Given the Forgotten in Nightfall, they've been known to and of the Six for eons. In particular is Keeper of Light, though other Forgotten who are apparently thousands of years old are suggested. But it's pretty heavily confirmed, the Forgotten have worshiped and revered the Six very, very, very long ago. Since the "First Sun" if not sooner.

    Even in GW2, there are mentions of them coming from the Mists and serving the Six more than Glint.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Did they bring the forgotten though? I thought the forgotten were part of the Elder Races, with the Mursaat, Seers, Jotun and Dwarves. Even the Mursaat tablets in ember bay advised that the forgotten and Mursaat attempted to defeat Zhaitan and failed.

    Given the Forgotten in Nightfall, they've been known to and of the Six for eons. In particular is Keeper of Light, though other Forgotten who are apparently thousands of years old are suggested. But it's pretty heavily confirmed, the Forgotten have worshiped and revered the Six very, very, very long ago. Since the "First Sun" if not sooner.

    Even in GW2, there are mentions of them coming from the Mists and serving the Six more than Glint.

    Yeah, I understand that they worship and revere the Six, however the Six showed up in Tyria in 786 BE, while the forgotten were around since like 10,000 BE and beyond, since the last dragon rising. I figured that the Forgotten story has since changed, like the Bloodstone history, Glint’s history and so forth.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Yeah, I understand that they worship and revere the Six, however the Six showed up in Tyria in 786 BE, while the forgotten were around since like 10,000 BE and beyond, since the last dragon rising. I figured that the Forgotten story has since changed, like the Bloodstone history, Glint’s history and so forth.

    We actually don't have a date for when the Six showed up in the world. 786 BE is when humans arrived on Cantha. Humans and the gods were on Tyria for an unknown amount of time before then. For all we know, they could have shown up around the same time as Forgotten. We don't know.

    And the oldest date we have confirmed for the Forgotten is, technically, 1769 BE. All dates surrounding Glint is, still, "3,000 years ago", despite 10,000 BE being the date the Priory and mursaat ascribe for the previous dragonrise, which rather suggests the last dragonrise lasted ~8,000 years. Or the Priory+mursaat lore tablets are wrong and there were two previous dragonrises, or the dozens of references of Glint's purification occurring 3,000 years ago are wrong.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    And the oldest date we have confirmed for the Forgotten is, technically, 1769 BE. All dates surrounding Glint is, still, "3,000 years ago", despite 10,000 BE being the date the Priory and mursaat ascribe for the previous dragonrise, which rather suggests the last dragonrise lasted ~8,000 years. Or the Priory+mursaat lore tablets are wrong and there were two previous dragonrises, or the dozens of references of Glint's purification occurring 3,000 years ago are wrong.

    Or Steve's second sphere is Time, and he's been screwing with things.

  • Knuckle Joe.7408Knuckle Joe.7408 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2019

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Yeah, I understand that they worship and revere the Six, however the Six showed up in Tyria in 786 BE, while the forgotten were around since like 10,000 BE and beyond, since the last dragon rising. I figured that the Forgotten story has since changed, like the Bloodstone history, Glint’s history and so forth.

    We actually don't have a date for when the Six showed up in the world. 786 BE is when humans arrived on Cantha. Humans and the gods were on Tyria for an unknown amount of time before then. For all we know, they could have shown up around the same time as Forgotten. We don't know.

    And the oldest date we have confirmed for the Forgotten is, technically, 1769 BE. All dates surrounding Glint is, still, "3,000 years ago", despite 10,000 BE being the date the Priory and mursaat ascribe for the previous dragonrise, which rather suggests the last dragonrise lasted ~8,000 years. Or the Priory+mursaat lore tablets are wrong and there were two previous dragonrises, or the dozens of references of Glint's purification occurring 3,000 years ago are wrong.

    Could it be that the human gods are from a future Tyria? I mean, if they are from a whole different world altogether, why does it say that they're big parts of the eternal alchemy? Wouldn't they be completely alien to that?

    I imagine a future Tyria (probably the same time as we are right now, but in one where the dragons are winning) where the dragons woke up and brought destruction on the world, and either the gods destroyed one or two and then realized the mistake they had done? Would explain how Kormir and presumably the other gods know the destruction that happens when you kill/fight dragons and decided not to step in.

    Or..

    They fought them but suffered a crushing defeat because they were not powerful enough and had no one to help them. This one could explain why Abbadon was all "LETS GIVE MAGIC TO THEM COME ON", so they could have an army to stand with them the next time they arose. Again, probably the six were all "They have magic now, they can defend themselves, lets get outta here." when you went to talk to Kormir.

    Orrrrrr

    They defeated all the dragons and some gifted individuals absorbed each dragon's magic (would explain the parallel affinities between dragons/gods), but the price was that the world went all Namek and they decided to travel back in time with a handful of their once human brothers.

    Maybe?

  • @Knuckle Joe.7408 said:
    Could it be that the human gods are from a future Tyria? I mean, if they are from a whole different world altogether, why does it say that they're big parts of the eternal alchemy? Wouldn't they be completely alien to that?

    The Eternal Alchemy is about how everything in the universe works together.

    The Six may be from another worlds, but they're still of this universe.

    And as far as we know, time travel is not possible. Just fractals of possible future.

    Would explain how Kormir and presumably the other gods know the destruction that happens when you kill/fight dragons and decided not to step in.

    More likely they know what happens when you imbalance the functions of a world, given the world they came from was distraught in some form.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Knuckle Joe.7408 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Yeah, I understand that they worship and revere the Six, however the Six showed up in Tyria in 786 BE, while the forgotten were around since like 10,000 BE and beyond, since the last dragon rising. I figured that the Forgotten story has since changed, like the Bloodstone history, Glint’s history and so forth.

    We actually don't have a date for when the Six showed up in the world. 786 BE is when humans arrived on Cantha. Humans and the gods were on Tyria for an unknown amount of time before then. For all we know, they could have shown up around the same time as Forgotten. We don't know.

    And the oldest date we have confirmed for the Forgotten is, technically, 1769 BE. All dates surrounding Glint is, still, "3,000 years ago", despite 10,000 BE being the date the Priory and mursaat ascribe for the previous dragonrise, which rather suggests the last dragonrise lasted ~8,000 years. Or the Priory+mursaat lore tablets are wrong and there were two previous dragonrises, or the dozens of references of Glint's purification occurring 3,000 years ago are wrong.

    Could it be that the human gods are from a future Tyria? I mean, if they are from a whole different world altogether, why does it say that they're big parts of the eternal alchemy? Wouldn't they be completely alien to that?

    the eternal alchemy encompasses the entirety of the mists, not just Tyria.

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

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