So are T4 fractals literally just raids now? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

So are T4 fractals literally just raids now?

thewaterguy.4796thewaterguy.4796 Member ✭✭
edited December 27, 2018 in Players Helping Players

I keep running into this constantly, people requiring I provide a link to my ultra-meta pre-approved build before we start T4 fractals, I guess I'll just play T3 but this seems to have only come up in the past month...am I crazy?

If it is this way now, that's fine, just must have missed the memo where the community at large decided that T4 is only for pre-approved builds, not homecooked ones that a player finds more fun even if its not quite as powerful

Comments

  • that sounds lame. I don't do t4s, but it sounds like the tryhards are ruining the fun.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • I ask because recently after failing to destroy the slime in Thaumanova in one burst, people were apparently watching the dps turned to me and said "Do you have an alternate build because dps is low" I run berserker but I focus on some defense and cc, its a homemade build I find fun and thematic to my character, but apparently thats a problem

  • tl;dr ignore it and form your own group
    (it's probably a combination of the holiday season and the coincidence of see more of this type of request, which has always been around in some fashion)

    There have always been some people who ask PUGs to follow an imaginary meta, when T4 fractals and even CM and raids don't really require it. The problem is that many who have done 100s and 100s don't want to waste time. And there is no good way to ensure a smooth run. So people try to invent proxies to filter out those who aren't up to the challenge: kill proofs or gear pings or builds. And none of that guarantees a thing, except that people start off with an attitude.

    To be fair, people with kill proofs are at least "less unlikely" to arrive without a clue and people running snowcrows or discretize builds are at least demonstrating that they've heard about maximizing DPS.

    Regardless, the OP is entirely free to form their own groups. When we need PUGs to fill a gap in or static, one of us likes to as for "foods & pots," under the theory that anyone who has at least that is likely to be familiar with instabs etc (true more often than not) and it never takes long to fill a group. I usually ask folks to tell a joke (funny or not): this demonstrates nothing at all... except that they read the LFG and have a sense of humor, both of which turn out, imo, to be a better predictor to a good run than "kill proof."

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭

    @thewaterguy.4796 said:
    I ask because recently after failing to destroy the slime in Thaumanova in one burst, people were apparently watching the dps turned to me and said "Do you have an alternate build because dps is low" I run berserker but I focus on some defense and cc, its a homemade build I find fun and thematic to my character, but apparently thats a problem

    Apparently your dps was to low and therefore a problem. Remember you are only one of 5 ppl in the group, if they have less fun because of you... You get the point

  • thewaterguy.4796thewaterguy.4796 Member ✭✭
    edited December 27, 2018

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @thewaterguy.4796 said:
    I ask because recently after failing to destroy the slime in Thaumanova in one burst, people were apparently watching the dps turned to me and said "Do you have an alternate build because dps is low" I run berserker but I focus on some defense and cc, its a homemade build I find fun and thematic to my character, but apparently thats a problem

    Hate to say it, but in this particular circumstance, if the required DPS output wasn’t met to burst the boss like it usually is done, and your output was the lowest, you were the problem of that tactic failing. They asked you if you were familiar with a higher output build. That’s really normal for players in T4.
    If you prefer your own builds, you can start your off-meta group yourself. Players learn to swap in/out things that are needed. Your defence and CC wasn’t needed. Damage was.

    Okay, but you understand my point about this feeling very...raidy right? Like the implication is you haven't built your character "properly" and this group did not have any stipulations about "need dps" nothing of the sort, it was just t4 dailies, if it had "LF DPS" in the title I would never have joined in the first place

    I've run T4 fractals for years now, and I've never had anyone tell me I need to completely change my build, sure once in awhile "can you switch to "X" skill for this" and I happily obliged but the "can you fundamentally redesign your build" has never come up before

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭

    @thewaterguy.4796 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @thewaterguy.4796 said:
    I ask because recently after failing to destroy the slime in Thaumanova in one burst, people were apparently watching the dps turned to me and said "Do you have an alternate build because dps is low" I run berserker but I focus on some defense and cc, its a homemade build I find fun and thematic to my character, but apparently thats a problem

    Hate to say it, but in this particular circumstance, if the required DPS output wasn’t met to burst the boss like it usually is done, and your output was the lowest, you were the problem of that tactic failing. They asked you if you were familiar with a higher output build. That’s really normal for players in T4.
    If you prefer your own builds, you can start your off-meta group yourself. Players learn to swap in/out things that are needed. Your defence and CC wasn’t needed. Damage was.

    Okay, but you understand my point about this feeling very...raidy right? Like the implication is you haven't built your character "properly" and this group did not have any stipulations about "need dps" nothing of the sort, it was just t4 dailies, if it had "LF DPS" in the title I would never have joined in the first place

    I've run T4 fractals for years now, and I've never had anyone tell me I need to completely change my build, sure once in awhile "can you switch to "X" skill for this" and I happily obliged but the "can you fundamentally redesign your build" has never come up before

    First : obviously you need to bring dps into fractals. Even if it's not stated. Noone needs your good looks to complete the content.

    Second : when it was the first time, how did you deside its the best idea to make a forum thread about an isolated incident after years of playing?

  • thewaterguy.4796thewaterguy.4796 Member ✭✭
    edited December 27, 2018

    @sigur.9453 said:

    @thewaterguy.4796 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @thewaterguy.4796 said:
    I ask because recently after failing to destroy the slime in Thaumanova in one burst, people were apparently watching the dps turned to me and said "Do you have an alternate build because dps is low" I run berserker but I focus on some defense and cc, its a homemade build I find fun and thematic to my character, but apparently thats a problem

    Hate to say it, but in this particular circumstance, if the required DPS output wasn’t met to burst the boss like it usually is done, and your output was the lowest, you were the problem of that tactic failing. They asked you if you were familiar with a higher output build. That’s really normal for players in T4.
    If you prefer your own builds, you can start your off-meta group yourself. Players learn to swap in/out things that are needed. Your defence and CC wasn’t needed. Damage was.

    Okay, but you understand my point about this feeling very...raidy right? Like the implication is you haven't built your character "properly" and this group did not have any stipulations about "need dps" nothing of the sort, it was just t4 dailies, if it had "LF DPS" in the title I would never have joined in the first place

    I've run T4 fractals for years now, and I've never had anyone tell me I need to completely change my build, sure once in awhile "can you switch to "X" skill for this" and I happily obliged but the "can you fundamentally redesign your build" has never come up before

    First : obviously you need to bring dps into fractals. Even if it's not stated. Noone needs your good looks to complete the content.

    Second : when it was the first time, how did you deside its the best idea to make a forum thread about an isolated incident after years of playing?

    Because I haven't played Fractals in awhile and if this is the case I need to know? And I do bring dps, the build is a dps-build, just not pure, seriously we keep getting off on these tangents, nobody so far has answered my question, are we now considering T4 to be the realm of meta-builds with lower Tiers being for people like me? If so that is fine by me, just would be nice to know no need to get snippy mate, I posted this in players helping players because its a genuine question, if I wanted a discussion I'd have posted it in Fractals and Raids

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭

    @thewaterguy.4796 said:

    @sigur.9453 said:

    @thewaterguy.4796 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @thewaterguy.4796 said:
    I ask because recently after failing to destroy the slime in Thaumanova in one burst, people were apparently watching the dps turned to me and said "Do you have an alternate build because dps is low" I run berserker but I focus on some defense and cc, its a homemade build I find fun and thematic to my character, but apparently thats a problem

    Hate to say it, but in this particular circumstance, if the required DPS output wasn’t met to burst the boss like it usually is done, and your output was the lowest, you were the problem of that tactic failing. They asked you if you were familiar with a higher output build. That’s really normal for players in T4.
    If you prefer your own builds, you can start your off-meta group yourself. Players learn to swap in/out things that are needed. Your defence and CC wasn’t needed. Damage was.

    Okay, but you understand my point about this feeling very...raidy right? Like the implication is you haven't built your character "properly" and this group did not have any stipulations about "need dps" nothing of the sort, it was just t4 dailies, if it had "LF DPS" in the title I would never have joined in the first place

    I've run T4 fractals for years now, and I've never had anyone tell me I need to completely change my build, sure once in awhile "can you switch to "X" skill for this" and I happily obliged but the "can you fundamentally redesign your build" has never come up before

    First : obviously you need to bring dps into fractals. Even if it's not stated. Noone needs your good looks to complete the content.

    Second : when it was the first time, how did you deside its the best idea to make a forum thread about an isolated incident after years of playing?

    Because I haven't played Fractals in awhile and if this is the case I need to know? And I do bring dps, the build is a dps-build, just not pure, seriously we keep getting off on these tangents, nobody so far has answered my question, are we now considering T4 to be the realm of meta-builds with lower Tiers being for people like me? If so that is fine by me, just would be nice to know no need to get snippy mate

    To answer:depends on the group.like before.

  • @thewaterguy.4796 said:
    I ask because recently after failing to destroy the slime in Thaumanova in one burst, people were apparently watching the dps turned to me and said "Do you have an alternate build because dps is low" I run berserker but I focus on some defense and cc, its a homemade build I find fun and thematic to my character, but apparently thats a problem

    I missed this response as I was typing my earlier one. Here's the thing: the specific strategy of bursting the slime ASAP requires a lot of DPS. A single person being "low" can derail it, unless the others on the team are doing beyond "their share."

    We can argue whether people should cheeze the fight like that or not, but the fact is: you were in a group where that was the accepted strategy, and your DPS was low enough that someone politely commented on it. This has nothing to do with you choosing a "homemade" build and everything to do with mismatch of expectations: you expect that anything goes, and other people don't.

    By your own words, they did not ask you to run a raid build; they just asked if you had something else with more DPS. That's not "very raidy". It was a reasonable request in the context of that particular fight. I'm a little surprised that someone with experience in T4 hasn't seen the slime burst or, having seen it, been unaware of what's required to make it work.

    Now, to be fair , the LFG phrasing allowed for the misunderstanding, so that's on the organizer. And to be fair, it's can be done with even just two strong DPS players (with enough support and a little DPS from the others). But generally, it's really smooth if everyone is "pulling their weight" and a real mess if the group falls short.


    In other words: there was a mismatch of goals
    The OP thinks that "anything goes" and the reality is that most groups expect that each 20% of the team will pull their own weight, whether with DPS or something else. It's fine when the group is 5/5 "thematic to my character" players; it's fine when there are five "let's have enough DPS to phase quickly enough." It's a problem when it's 4:1 or even 3:2.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thewaterguy.4796 said:
    I ask because recently after failing to destroy the slime in Thaumanova in one burst, people were apparently watching the dps turned to me and said "Do you have an alternate build because dps is low" I run berserker but I focus on some defense and cc, its a homemade build I find fun and thematic to my character, but apparently thats a problem

    To be fair they didn't ask you to switch to a meta-build, just one with more DPS. If you're confident making builds and you understand the choices you've made to get more defence and CC you could swap some of those skills/traits for higher damage. Or you could explain why you think the defence and CC is important and help the group find another solution.

    An important part of theory crafting is understanding what works where and why and swapping things around as needed. I definitely have my favourite skills and traits for each character, which I'll use most of the time, but I'll change them if I know I'm facing a particular type of enemy or situation which makes them less effective (or makes something else important). Working with the group is important too, which sometimes means agreeing to take on a role that's not your favourite because that's what's needed.

    Or if you're not happy doing that make your own group so you get first pick and then you can find people to work with you.

    "You can run like a river, Till you end up in the sea,
    And you run till night is black, And keep on going in your dreams,
    And you know all the long while, It's the journey that you seek,
    It's the miles of moving forward, With the wind beneath your wings."

  • This will be my last post on this thread, I need to apologize to both of the other players who responded, it was disrespectful and wrong to react in the way I did, and trust me its nothing to do with you, I've had alot of other stuff going on, but I don't feel right if I don't apologize

  • @thewaterguy.4796 said:
    This will be my last post on this thread, I need to apologize to both of the other players who responded, it was disrespectful and wrong to react in the way I did, and trust me its nothing to do with you, I've had alot of other stuff going on, but I don't feel right if I don't apologize

    Thanks for taking the time to post about it.

    (For what it's worth, I didn't take the since-removed comments personally. I didn't see any posts that were... ticklish, so I just ignored the parenthetical bits.)

    (Also for what it's worth: my take away from that earlier post was that you read the feedback with an open mind. As a result, you reconsidered your stance. Even so, still you don't like the state of affairs and you weren't entirely convinced. That part seemed reasonable and respectful, which was why I didn't worry about the throwaway line that came after.)


    On the topic of the thread... I do think there's an open question about what's the best way for players with divergent styles to avoid joining up by accident, while still being easy to find like-minded for parties. Fractals can definitely be done with builds that are more suitable thematically, with little focus on efficiency. It might take longer (a lot longer, imo), but that doesn't mean every group has to be doing even 50% of peak benchmark, in DPS or speed.

    The problem is ANet can lead a player to the LFG, but no one can make them read and agree to the requirements posted.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • I think the discussion still leaves the question unanswered of - "is it realistic for players to expect optimized meta-play when they are... well... running in freaking PUGs?"

    If you want optimization, isn't the quick answer to that - "don't PUG"?

  • @Irensaga.6935 said:
    I think the discussion still leaves the question unanswered of - "is it realistic for players to expect optimized meta-play when they are... well... running in freaking PUGs?"

    If you want optimization, isn't the quick answer to that - "don't PUG"?

    There's a huge range between support levels of damage (under 2k) and optimized meta play. When we have 2-3 PUGs in our group, it's not uncommon to see 25k+ from the DPS builds. This wasn't an example of people asking for "optimized meta-play;" it was a case of trying to run a PUG-friendly strategy, running into difficulty, and the OP being asked if they could offer an alternative.

    Or let me put it another way: do you think it's unrealistic to expect any minimum amount of damage from T4 PUGlings? If so, where would you draw the line? At 15k? (already below "optimal" or "meta") 10k? 5k? 2k?

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2018

    I pug, hardly care of any build, if person manages to carry own weight, we never have problems. If I see person is trying and gets things done even bit less dps, I don't care.
    We carried a ranger/soulbests recently, with 2k dps. Eventually our crono run outta patience and asked about the gear. Soulbeast was running marshal. We kindly explained that it is not the best chose for the class.
    Again carry own weight and you won't have any problems.

    Mr. Z, open this gate. Mr. Z... Mr. Z, tear down this wall!

  • There two types of "pug"ing in fractal t4
    1)lfg " t4 daily n recs"
    2) lfg "t4 lf dps, druid.chrono"
    Now you will want to choose first one if you are worried about you not performing well or just want run your own build :P Second group you gotta carry your own weight or else expect to get kicked or flamed.

  • It’s not unrealistic to expect people to run the best possible build they can when pugging. Plenty of pugs run meta, so this whole “don’t expect meta if u pug” argument has no grounds in reality. You are, of course, free to play whatever build you want, but if a group is asking for meta or is asking you to swap or leave for not contributing, you have to respect that. Don’t be surprised if people don’t want to waste their time just so you can play a silly build, you’re having fun at their expense.

  • Deimos.4263Deimos.4263 Member ✭✭✭

    Genuine question (from someone who isn't anywhere near t4 and probably never will be): Are t4 fractals timed?

    If not, it seems like you should just find a group that isn't in a rush. The reason DPS is so important in raids is that there's a timer. Why worry about damage over time if there's no timer?

  • SidewayS.3789SidewayS.3789 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2018

    @Deimos.4263 said:
    Genuine question (from someone who isn't anywhere near t4 and probably never will be): Are t4 fractals timed?

    If not, it seems like you should just find a group that isn't in a rush. The reason DPS is so important in raids is that there's a timer. Why worry about damage over time if there's no timer?

    Because we (the veterans) have completed fractals for hundreds over hundreds times, so now we want a quick run. Usually my CMs+T4+Rec is around 1h and a few minutes (if one of those CMs are daily, much faster). Even though there is no timers (like in raids) for T4, most of the ppls wants a fast and clean run.

    Galbättörix | Asura Warrior|
    ~Fractal Champion ~

  • I'm mostly being devil's advocate here. I don't run Fractales yet. If I did, I'd head over to MetaBattle and make sure I had a meta build for it and would at least try to practice my rotation. But elitism and veteran players who want nothing but speed runs are currently intimidating me from getting into them.

    There's two sides to the story here.

    On the one hand - I totally get that veterans have done this a bazillion times and are just farming the content now and want a nice clean speedy run without having to hold some newbies hand and carry them. If the newbie were to complain about the hostile environment, they'd probably say - toughen up or get good, or go find a friendly guild to carry your butt through content.

    But on the other hand - this attitude does create a hostile environment for new players like me who just hate the idea of stressing out trying to keep up with a lot of jaded vets who don't even like the game anymore and are taking out their hostility on you. Neophytes like me could also make the argument to vets - if you don't like having to deal with the occasional "carry" with politeness and good humor, don't PUG - go find yourself an elite guild and avoid having to deal with this at all.

    So the same arguments cut both ways here.

  • I mean, I'm an Elementalist main. That means I'm squishy and I'm likely to get curb-stomped a lot by mechanics I'm not used to. It happens to me in open-world group events anyway - even when I'm using "meta" builds.

    The idea of being constantly rezzed by a bunch of elite players who are tearing their hair out in frustration at the goober who doesn't know what to do until they finally snap and chew me out or kick me...

    It's not really appealing.

  • @Irensaga.6935 said:
    But on the other hand - this attitude does create a hostile environment for new players like me who just hate the idea of stressing out trying to keep up with a lot of jaded vets who don't even like the game anymore and are taking out their hostility on you.

    Except that's not what the OP reported. All we know is that one person ask if they had another build they could swap to. They wrote:

    I ask because recently after failing to destroy the slime in Thaumanova in one burst, people were apparently watching the dps turned to me and said "Do you have an alternate build because dps is low" I run berserker but I focus on some defense and cc, its a homemade build I find fun and thematic to my character, but apparently thats a problem

    Neophytes like me could also make the argument to vets - if you don't like having to deal with the occasional "carry" with politeness and good humor,

    Again, the OP didn't actually claim they were treated with rudeness. They are saying that they ran a thematic build rather than worrying about any other consideration.s.

    don't PUG - go find yourself an elite guild and avoid having to deal with this at all.

    T4 fractals don't require elite level of game play. Again, there's a huge range between the lowest observed DPS and the highest in T4 PUG situations.

    So the same arguments cut both ways here.

    What is the argument that you think is being made? T4 fractals are designed as challenging group content; it's not "anything goes." And people aren't saying, "we refuse to tolerate it." They asked if the OP had anything else they could bring.

    In instanced content, each person's build affects four or nine other players. The group is unnecessarily hamstrung if someone chooses to bring a custom build without regard for its appropriateness to the specific content.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • @Irensaga.6935 said:
    I'm mostly being devil's advocate here. I don't run Fractales yet.

    Since you mention you're not familiar with fractals, let me provide some context. The particular fight mentioned by the OP is against a Champion Ooze that breaks into baby & veteran oozes as it loses health. If those oozes reach the boss, their remaining health restores the champ's HP. (There are a bunch of other mechanics, too.) There are two primary strategies: quick burn (requiring high DPS and over quickly) versus slow & steady (which requires several minutes of coordinated fighting).

    Burn the boss down so quickly that the little oozes can't reach (and heal). Duration of the fight: 15s or so (plus a random factor that might double it). Other benefits: fewer chances of mistakes, due to short fight. Con: requires a minimum amount of DPS to pull off (although it's far, far short of any sort of meta/elite benchmark level, perhaps 50% or even 65% less).

    Slow & steady is depleting the boss in increments, kill all little oozes as they show up, and allowing the boss to cycle through its other mechanics. Chief advantage is that just about any group can pull it off, if people don't make mistakes and focus on the oozes properly (including 1-2 who have defiance bars that must be broken to stop them in time). It takes a few minutes, sometimes longer, depending on the group's DPS and coordination.

    The chief disadvantage is that it's actually harder to pull off. It requires some DPS and lots of attention to detail, from each player. As a result, it's sometimes easier to let inexperienced or less-skilled players get downed and finish with a smaller group, sometimes just one person.

    In that context, the easiest thing for the party is if everyone can improve their DPS, rather than try to run slow & steady. If one member is a lot lower, then everyone's experience is improved if that person can simply swap builds/characters.

    And finally, there are four tiers of fractals. This was T4, the highest & hardest, in which people are very likely to have a lot of experience with each fight. Newbies to the dungeon can start at T1, where (a) there's a lot of room for mistakes and thus (b) time to learn. And where (c) the veterans who participate are likely to spend time explaining mechanics or offering tips. The same fight at T1 can be 'burned' with much, much less DPS and the OP's build would probably be fine for it.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Thanks for the explanation. The T4 distinction makes sense.

    Since I'm here anyway, I might as well ask a sort of unrelated question - where do dungeons figure into the difficulty curve here? Are they tougher than T1 Fractales? Or easier?

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Irensaga.6935 said:
    Thanks for the explanation. The T4 distinction makes sense.

    Since I'm here anyway, I might as well ask a sort of unrelated question - where do dungeons figure into the difficulty curve here? Are they tougher than T1 Fractales? Or easier?

    I belive the devs have said before that dungeons are around t2 dif

  • just form ur own group and get some friends or guildies.

  • Illconceived Was Na.9781Illconceived Was Na.9781 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Irensaga.6935 said:
    Thanks for the explanation. The T4 distinction makes sense.

    Since I'm here anyway, I might as well ask a sort of unrelated question - where do dungeons figure into the difficulty curve here? Are they tougher than T1 Fractales? Or easier?

    I belive the devs have said before that dungeons are around t2 dif

    That sounds like something I remember reading.

    In terms of personal experience, I think dungeons range in difficulty from T0 fractals to T3, even within the same path. Where I'd rate them depends on whether party members are experienced with the path, whether power or condi builds, whether the group includes highly-skilled players.

    For example, dungeons were created with 'furniture' items: objects at the launch of GW2 were immune to all conditions and there are several places (especially in AC) with objects that need to be destroyed quickly, making it harder for condi builds. As another example, some coordination is required to handle the Ghost Eater and sometimes people struggle conceptually with it. That makes e.g AC/2 seem very hard to some players and ridiculously easy to others.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thewaterguy.4796 said:
    Okay, but you understand my point about this feeling very...raidy right? Like the implication is you haven't built your character "properly"

    Nope. I held back going into T4s for a while because I wanted to make sure I was "good enough". It is your responsibility to make sure that you are pulling your weight.

    You described your build above. You KNOW it has lower DPS than what is otherwise possible - nobody has to tell you that. So if someone calls you out on a DPS race (which burning through subject 6 is) why should you be surprised or offended? You are the one who made the choice to take a sub optimal build into a group setting and hinder the group's progress.

    I'd like to add, even if they had decided to fight that encounter "properly", it might still have failed as the elite oozes have a lot of health, and if you can't burn them down before they hit the boss, it's a wipe.

    GW2 is a great game in that for open world stuff, you can play whatever you want however you want, and still succeed. That even carries over to meta events, map events and world bosses. But once you step into a Raid or a (high level) Fractal, that goes out the window.

    Nobody should be calling you out on poor DPS because THEY SHOUDNT HAVE TO. People should know beforehand that their custom made LB Celestial Ranger has no business in T4 Fractal, or their D/D Thief in full Plaguedoctor running healing signet is best left to open world farming.

    If you want to play whatever you want, that is perfectly fine - Fractals have Tier 1 and Tier 2 just for you. But it isn't fair to walk into a T4 and expect 4 players to carry you to great loot because you want to be "unique".

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2019

    I avoid any group that advertises they're looking for something specific. Whenever I post my own ad in LFG, I always use the word "casual". I probably get more than my fair share of people who really don't know what they're doing, but I'm OK with that.

    However, the top-tier fractals can be crazy-hard. I do not begrudge those who want a raid-style team, because it's the easiest way to make sure you're going to complete it in a reasonable amount of time (i.e. with fewer deaths).

    It's a trade-off for me: I would rather be lazy and reset a few extra times than have to micro-manage my build. Some gamers are quite different in this regard. And, that's OK.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    I avoid any group that advertises they're looking for something specific. Whenever I post my own ad in LFG, I always use the word "casual". I probably get more than my fair share of people who really don't know what they're doing, but I'm OK with that.

    However, the top-tier fractals can be crazy-hard. I do not begrudge those who want a raid-style team, because it's the easiest way to make sure you're going to complete it in a reasonable amount of time (i.e. with fewer deaths).

    It's a trade-off for me: I would rather be lazy and reset a few extra times than have to micro-manage my build. Some gamers are quite different in this regard. And, that's OK.

    I should correct the above: I will join a group that specifies it wants DPS. I play a condi minion reaper, so it don't deal traditional DPS (or, burst DPS, as I like to call it), but I'm hard to kill, so those conditions are going to keep piling up.

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