The Reason my friends don't play this game with me ... No Controller Support (A lesson for GW3)

I don't know if it's just me and my friends now that we are getting older (35+), I'm sure everyone has different friends and experiences but allow me to share what's going on in my demographic.
I grew up with large groups of gaming friends. All of us were keyboard warriors in our youth.
I love this game, and honestly I want my friends to love it too. I've had a ton of friends try this game over the years, and only a few of them still play it from time to time. I always inquire why they didn't like this game. 9 times out of 10 the answer was always, "I can't do computer games anymore that require me to be hunched over a keyboard and mouse. " Then I thought about it, and realized that they were right and I wouldn't have played this game as much as I did if I wasn't using a third party program for controller support since day 1. (my setup works amazingly for this game btw, so anyone who says it's not viable for this type of game, you have been proved very wrong). I'm not here to promote third party software and I think in the future this type of game will do better with gameplay that is designed to use a controller. Of course the mouse/keyboard lovers can still always do their thing, but I would allow both. I don't think traditional keyboard/mouse games are going to be attractive to the masses in the future, (no one I know in my circle plays them anymore) and I'm hoping Guild Wars 3 will be mindful of that in the future if that's even in the works.

@"Sparrow.5936" said:I don't know if it's just me and my friends now that we are getting older (35+), I'm sure everyone has different friends and experiences but allow me to share what's going on in my demographic.

I grew up with large groups of gaming friends. All of us were keyboard warriors in our youth.

I love this game, and honestly I want my friends to love it too. I've had a ton of friends try this game over the years, and only a few of them still play it from time to time. I always inquire why they didn't like this game. 9 times out of 10 the answer was always, "I can't do computer games anymore that require me to be hunched over a keyboard and mouse. " Then I thought about it, and realized that they were right and I wouldn't have played this game as much as I did if I wasn't using a third party program for controller support since day 1. (my setup works amazingly for this game btw, so anyone who says it's not viable for this type of game, you have been proved very wrong). I'm not here to promote third party software and I think in the future this type of game will do better with gameplay that is designed to use a controller. Of course the mouse/keyboard lovers can still always do their thing, but I would allow both. I don't think traditional keyboard/mouse games are going to be attractive to the masses in the future, (no one I know in my circle plays them anymore) and I'm hoping Guild Wars 3 will be mindful of that in the future if that's even in the works.

You could be right, then again your data set is pretty small and I would only play this game with a keyboard and mouse. I pretty much don't want to use a controller for anything and don't own a video game system I only have PC's with keyboards and mice.

Is your coordination slowing down as you age is that a factor of why you want this? Is there another reason overall you prefer a controller? I am over 40 and don't have speed issues with my hands but I take a lot of effort each year to keep my hand eye coordination as high as I can. I am just curious what you and your friends motivators are for that attitude?

I would think it would be wise to have support for both but not just one or the other.

Don't count on a Guildwars 3 anytime soon :)

@jbrother.1340 said:

@"Sparrow.5936" said:I don't know if it's just me and my friends now that we are getting older (35+), I'm sure everyone has different friends and experiences but allow me to share what's going on in my demographic.

I grew up with large groups of gaming friends. All of us were keyboard warriors in our youth.

I love this game, and honestly I want my friends to love it too. I've had a ton of friends try this game over the years, and only a few of them still play it from time to time. I always inquire why they didn't like this game. 9 times out of 10 the answer was always, "I can't do computer games anymore that require me to be hunched over a keyboard and mouse. " Then I thought about it, and realized that they were right and I wouldn't have played this game as much as I did if I wasn't using a third party program for controller support since day 1. (my setup works amazingly for this game btw, so anyone who says it's not viable for this type of game, you have been proved very wrong). I'm not here to promote third party software and I think in the future this type of game will do better with gameplay that is designed to use a controller. Of course the mouse/keyboard lovers can still always do their thing, but I would allow both. I don't think traditional keyboard/mouse games are going to be attractive to the masses in the future, (no one I know in my circle plays them anymore) and I'm hoping Guild Wars 3 will be mindful of that in the future if that's even in the works.

Yes agreed, a very small sample size , just my personal experiences and interactions.

For me , my own personal reason for primarily wanting to use a controller is comfort. It allows me to sit back and relax, something I've never been able to do with a keyboard. There is also an added immersion experience and something satisfying about controlling a character with a controller vs a keyboard but that's completely subjective.

I'm not sure a controller would even Work with some classes, think Engineer, Elementalist and Ranger... Too many buttons required.

@Naxos.2503 said:I'm not sure a controller would even Work with some classes, think Engineer, Elementalist and Ranger... Too many buttons required.

You're wrong, But I will admit that elementalist is the most annoying of the classes to play on a controller. It's like playing a piano on keyboard at times, that kinda just translates to playing an ocarina instead, if using a controller. It's all about the 'Shift' keys. Turns 10 buttons into 20.

@Sparrow.5936 said:

@Naxos.2503 said:I'm not sure a controller would even Work with some classes, think Engineer, Elementalist and Ranger... Too many buttons required.

That can quickly get messy in my opinion, but to each their own :D

The buttons aren't the problem, it's the ground targeted spells that are tricky. You have to direct the mouse pointer for those type of actions with a stick instead of a mouse. My solution for this, I keep shortcut button that instantly moves the mouse pointer to the center of the screen for ease of using spells at my feet or directly in front of me. That actually allows me to get those off faster, then if I was using a mouse, but I would be slightly slower if i'm throwing something down further away. So it balances out a lil bit, but fortunately, the vast majority of those actions are going at my feet anyway.

I mean if we really want to go by the masses then anet would be making GW3 a mobile game. You can imagine how well received that's going to be with the gaming crowd.

Anyway I see this as a non-issue mostly because as a hybrid action game and the likely hood that they will design more for controller support is pretty slim to none. Unless they have a plan on porting this to console, I don't see it happening especially as the chance of GW3 is very very small.

@Warscythes.9307 said:making GW3 a mobile game.

I felt a part of my soul getting torn up, chewed and dry cleaned into consequential indifference imagining this. Please let it never come to pass. I dont want to lose another beloved serie to this rampant plague that is the mobile game port industry.

@Naxos.2503 said:

@Sparrow.5936 said:

@Naxos.2503 said:I'm not sure a controller would even Work with some classes, think Engineer, Elementalist and Ranger... Too many buttons required.

My thoughts exactly.. I have no idea how people can actually play this game on a controller when there are so many keybinds to factor in.Seems absurdly complex and far more effort than it's worth imo.. but if 3rd party's want to make mods that can do it eh.. each to their own.I don't want to see Anet waste their time doing it though.. specially if it ends up limiting the game because they need to ensure new specs and skills etc are controller friendly.Most people PC game on Keyboard and Mouse.. if some people don't want to use them then that's fine.. but PC games shouldn't go out of their way and potentially limit themselves for controller support.

@Warscythes.9307 said:I mean if we really want to go by the masses then anet would be making GW3 a mobile game. You can imagine how well received that's going to be with the gaming crowd.

Don't even joke about that.. I'd rather cease to exist than play Gw3 on a mobile XD

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:I mean if we really want to go by the masses then anet would be making GW3 a mobile game. You can imagine how well received that's going to be with the gaming crowd.

Don't even joke about that.. I'd rather cease to exist than play Gw3 on a mobile XD

It's not even fun to think about, but this just crept into my head: GW2 is basically already set up with the exact same formula mobile games use. Login daily to earn gold. Accumulate enough gold and you can upgrade your storage and buy promotional items from the store. Conversely spend more money and get it now.

@Sparrow.5936 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:I mean if we really want to go by the masses then anet would be making GW3 a mobile game. You can imagine how well received that's going to be with the gaming crowd.

Don't even joke about that.. I'd rather cease to exist than play Gw3 on a mobile XD

That's typically how MMO's have worked for a long time lolGw2 is still a proper game and it really does these things pretty well in all honesty.Can't say the same for the mobile market.. I truly hate mobile XD I don't even own a smart phone and will forever refuse to.

Gw3 is not going to happen anyways.

There is a reason mobile markets and casual gaming took off and attracts much money. There are far more people in the world who are not that exceptional at video games and the time needed to get good is incredibly high.

Swapping to a keyboard and mouse was hard for me. It took hundreds of hours to get used to it and get better at it. I have gone through several MMORPGs and the first several were pretty bad looking back on it. Even then I still with keyboard usage and routinely get my hand placement messed up where ring, middle, and index resting on ASD find their way to WER somehow.

There is simply more button combinations that are possible with a keyboard than a controller period. This game uses ~, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0, F1,F2,F3,F4,F5,A,W,S,D,F as the default in actual combat. That's over 20 key combinations and you will need to marry most of your hand to movement with ASWD let alone trying to press the other ones.

Not only that, but there is not much tactical feedback on a keyboard. Each key feels the same and it is very possible to move your hand into a configuration where it feels similar to another position, but its really off by a key row or key position.

A controller is very hard to mess up controls because there are several different feels to a controller such as a D-pad, joy stick, circular button, triangle button, brick button, trigger, etc. The other thing as stated earlier is that there are fewer buttons to work with. However, the complexity on a controller can get higher when you need to press certain combinations to generate a tree structure. A A A B will result in a different attack than AABB etc.

Another thing is I feel controller is more ergonomical for the body than most keyboard and mice. I come out with more pains with a keyboard and mouse than I ever did with a controller. Except one game.

I never felt there was much difference between controller and keyboard. I mean, sure you need to adjust to it, but it always works out in the end.

And most MMOs are really really slow games to begin with. Even GW2.

I cant really comment on being slower as you get older just yet, but.. I don't think i would blame it on the control setup. I mean, if a keyboard and mouse are problematic how can you use a computer just normally? You type with just two fingers?

Same with mobile games really, which to me feel like their controls are still in babyshoes like in the 90s.

I dunno, I pretty much always adapted to the controlscheme at hand and worked it out. I cant imagine starting to complain at being unable to use a controller. And 35+ is old now? Dear lord, I hope I dont start calling myself old until at least 50+.

funny, console players want keyboard + mouse support, yet your friends want d pad support

d pad is superior if there's constant need to chain keys into combos like BDO and fighting games, or roleplay games that require constant access to a menu like Final Fantasy or Fire Emblem

but in terms of MMO and shooters, keyboard + mice will always have a competitive edge over d padi remember ppl were complaining about Overwatch console competitive plays using 3rd-party keyboard + mice dongles having too much advantage over d pad; not only that, blizzard had to tune the game to fit into d pad use

@"Sparrow.5936" said:

It allows me to sit back and relax, something I've never been able to do with a keyboard.

I use a 52" screen, 6ft away from me. I sit leaned back in my chair, with my feet kinda up, with my KB and mouse pretty much in my lap. I can sit like this for hrs, and hrs.

@"FrizzFreston.5290" said:I never felt there was much difference between controller and keyboard. I mean, sure you need to adjust to it, but it always works out in the end.

And most MMOs are really really slow games to begin with. Even GW2.

I cant really comment on being slower as you get older just yet, but.. I don't think i would blame it on the control setup. I mean, if a keyboard and mouse are problematic how can you use a computer just normally? You type with just two fingers?

Same with mobile games really, which to me feel like their controls are still in babyshoes like in the 90s.

I dunno, I pretty much always adapted to the controlscheme at hand and worked it out. I cant imagine starting to complain at being unable to use a controller. And 35+ is old now? Dear lord, I hope I dont start calling myself old until at least 50+.

LOL 50.

I will still be skating vert ramps at 50. I am still at 40 and have no intention to leave the wooden waves behind. I will do it until I cannot stand or turn.

35 is not old. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise :)

The words of Dylan Thomas are always ringing in my ears and fitting that a person should fight until the last breath rises;

"Do not go gentle into that good night,Old age should burn and rave at close of day;Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

@Warscythes.9307 said:I mean if we really want to go by the masses then anet would be making GW3 a mobile game. You can imagine how well received that's going to be with the gaming crowd.

They could make GW1 a mobile game, breathe a little life back into it.

I don't see a controller working well, especially with targeted skills. If it would be introduced (which I doubt), I'd be concerned with new elites (or professions) being developed with a controller in mind. So thanks, but no thanks.

Im 32 and i would like to know what age has to do with input device preferences.I never used a controller in my life, so naturally i use K+B.

But even if - how in gods name do you play harder content like raids for example?Isn't the reaction time and movement with K+B like a 1000 times better?

How is the communication problem solved when people play with controllers?

I tried the game, one of hundreds which claimed to be our successor, which had both PS4 and computer players mixed in servers. It was one of the most frustrating experiences I ever had in an MMORPG. You join company with someone you do not know and have NO chance to communicate with them. You have a long list of emotes, but besides that you are basically stuck to the jumping-code. It is extremely funny when you are new to the game and your team-mates only way to tell you what to do is jumping around like a gummy-ball.

What if you have console and pc servers only? I do not know. Our tutorials are not good enough to teach a player the basics of the game. At the current state we rely on player-player interaction. A lot of mechanics in the game are not self-explanatory, even if you watch a million guides and videos, sooner or later you have to talk to others. And when you try fractals or certain dungeons, communication is key. Raiding? Don't even get me started.

Then I thought about it, and realized that they were right and I wouldn't have played this game as much as I did if I wasn't using a third party program for controller support since day 1. (my setup works amazingly for this game btw, so anyone who says it's not viable for this type of game, you have been proved very wrong)

Only because something works for you, it does not mean it works the same way for others. A year ago during Wintersday, there was a video of a small child doing the hard path, used as an excuse for everyone unable to do it. We had people on the forums tea-bagging others for "losing against a child." We are individuals, each of us has a specific view of the world and different preferences. We are different people. I played the entire Wintersday with a broken (= sometimes unresponsive) space-bar. It worked for me, so it should work for everyone else? Friend of mine does T4 fractals solo, does that mean you can do that too? Please stop comparing things that cannot be compared.

@Sparrow.5936 said:

@jbrother.1340 said:

@Sparrow.5936 said:I don't know if it's just me and my friends now that we are getting older (35+), I'm sure everyone has different friends and experiences but allow me to share what's going on in my demographic.

I grew up with large groups of gaming friends. All of us were keyboard warriors in our youth.

I love this game, and honestly I want my friends to love it too. I've had a ton of friends try this game over the years, and only a few of them still play it from time to time. I always inquire why they didn't like this game. 9 times out of 10 the answer was always, "I can't do computer games anymore that require me to be hunched over a keyboard and mouse. " Then I thought about it, and realized that they were right and I wouldn't have played this game as much as I did if I wasn't using a third party program for controller support since day 1. (my setup works amazingly for this game btw, so anyone who says it's not viable for this type of game, you have been proved very wrong). I'm not here to promote third party software and I think in the future this type of game will do better with gameplay that is designed to use a controller. Of course the mouse/keyboard lovers can still always do their thing, but I would allow both. I don't think traditional keyboard/mouse games are going to be attractive to the masses in the future, (no one I know in my circle plays them anymore) and I'm hoping Guild Wars 3 will be mindful of that in the future if that's even in the works.

That's quite odd, I have no problem sitting back and relaxing when playing with a mouse and keyboard, and I play games a lot(practically all of my free time between working, sleeping and eating) since it's the thing I find that I have the most fun doing. Everyone is different however so it really only applies to me, and I've been playing games for 20+ years(currently 55).

@Warscythes.9307 said:I mean if we really want to go by the masses then anet would be making GW3 a mobile game. You can imagine how well received that's going to be with the gaming crowd.

Anyway I see this as a non-issue mostly because as a hybrid action game and the likely hood that they will design more for controller support is pretty slim to none. Unless they have a plan on porting this to console, I don't see it happening especially as the chance of GW3 is very very small.What he said... just because loud speaker says one thing... doesn't mean it pays off. Activisions ass is a very good current example. Blizzard only needed to just say something and people would cheer and throw money at them... one time they messed with those beardnecks that paid for that company and no amount of china money will repair the damage they done to their western market.

Using x to adopt y... sure it works for you... but anet needs to make it work for everyone. Which means in most cases dumbing it down to the gutter level so it works on toaster controls... and yeah... that is how you lose people that pay your bills in favor of maybes and perhaps.