Legendary Lore Nerf

There was the nerf we all saw coming! Legendary lore no longer makes tome skills apply 2 burns per page, now it applies 20% base duration to burning from tomes. Not the nerf I was hoping for, but one I'll be okay with. I'm expecting firebrand dps to be around 35-38k now, how about everyone else?

Pretty substantial and pretty useless, in my opinion. Huge nerf, I couldn't get over 22 stacks of burn (10-12k ticks with full Sinister), no food, just self-buffed.

this nerf was kinda predictable. just waiting the meta dust to settle :cry: i wonder if we'll become the new target for nerfs like the necro :sweat_smile:

That's what happens when people cry for Firebrand damage when they haven't seen other specs dps....

@Falseprophet.1502 said:Pretty substantial and pretty useless, in my opinion. Huge nerf, I couldn't get over 22 stacks of burn (10-12k ticks with full Sinister), no food, just self-buffed.

What about raid buffs? since thats what most "benchmarks" go by. 10-12k burn ticks is lower than cps, I don't think we'd be that low. I'm still running full viper since before the sinister gear video, so I'll be testing when I get home. Maybe we sac the 3 extra pages in favor of bleeding on axes? Also, is this WITH mesmer and clones for full venoms effect?

Firebrand is now 24-25k DPS Solo. Still need to test with 4 additional targets.

Nice this is how to kill the spec, why to play this spec ???? please dev need more explanations why create a spec that is useless omg

@Ythamios.8593 said:Nice this is how to kill the spec, why to play this spec ???? please dev need more explanations why create a spec that is useless omg

I don't know if this KILLED it entirely, but I agree to why play firebrand now when weaver still sits at 47-49k dps, and soulbeast sits at 40k. If firebrand requires multiple people to hit 35k (which I see entirely) and doesn't even compete with other specs, it'll be dead in water for raiding, which is a large bit of endgame and the reason for the cries for nerf (imo). Firebrand doesn't have the break that soulbeast has, and doesn't have the consistant cleave that weaver has, it doesn't have the damage that scourge has, or the damage renegade has, it's been dropped below holosmith which people are saying is still weaker than base engi (solo at least), and looks like dps of a cps, with no party support like cps has (headbutt, banners, might bot, fury, break).

I'm honestly curious if this will cause a revert from Anet.

anet please revert and then nerf Ashes of the Just, that was the issue not the extra burning!

All DPS specs should be 35k DPS max, which Anet will balance to eventually.

@Sorin Noroku.5342 said:

@Ythamios.8593 said:Nice this is how to kill the spec, why to play this spec ???? please dev need more explanations why create a spec that is useless omg

He is not dead but he is agonizing LOL

@Mikeskies.1536 said:All DPS specs should be 35k DPS max, which Anet will balance to eventually.

idk about ALL dps specs being 35k, because then it'll still be imbalanced. Whichever has the easiest rotation, or provides the most for the party would be chosen over others. I believe each class should have things that tip the scale in their favor. Engi has a terrible rotation compared to others (say soulbeast), but it COULD do things that soulbeast cant (like stealth for team). The problem is, the soulbeast is 1.5x more dps, and you don't need stealth in raids. (just an example). Engi should have dps that is comparable to it's dps rotation (which condi engis believe it like playing flight of the bumble bee). Firebrand should be okay for damage if it hits around 38k dps, considering it brings things for raids that make up for it's low break. Such as being backup reflects for Matt, condi cleanse and stability for sloth, etc. However due to that being on such large cooldowns, and no breaks, they should have imo more dps than dragon hunter, who brings fantastic cleave, amazing breaks, but not so much support, sure they can backup reflect too if they drop a utility, but firebrand has that without losing a utility.

Weaver on the other hand, has no utility, and is pure dps. I'm fine with them being higher because of this, I'd expect them to sit around 40-42k. Soulbeast I think with little utility and slighter larger break than firebrand should sit around 38k as well (small nerf to how they are now), because they trade the utility for break but on scale similar to firebrand. Renegade has nice break, small party utility, I think 36k is a good spot for them. Scourge has okay break through fear, and little utility, I think sitting at 38k would be okay for them. See the pattern? I don't think 35k max is the spot, I think 40k should be the spot, but it'd be dependent on difficulty of rotation and how much support they bring to the party. Like chrono brings AMAZING support AND break, but has 14k max dps when pushing it? trade off!

@Sorin Noroku.5342 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:All DPS specs should be 35k DPS max, which Anet will balance to eventually.

40k DPS is pure power creep compared to HOT, in which 35k DPS was pretty much the upper limit, with DPS specs ranging from 30-35k.

Remember, at the start of an expac, they have to hype the classes a little bit then tone them down later. DPS specs did range from 30-35k on small targets, but when approaching large we saw 37k. I honestly can see them bringing classes down, or bringing classes up to the new range of 38-40k, since we have no gear progression but it's due to how strong you're able to play your character.

Also remember, most of the specs from Hot were "defense" oriented imo, where this one seems to be more "offensive". If we take that into effect, the 5k dps difference in a raid setting makes sense. Also remember, these are raid settings. In open world or pvp, these change drastically. In open world squads, as a firebrand, I'd be lucky to hit above 7k dps. A FAR cry below it before. Pre PoF I saw classes in fractals running around 4-5k, purely from their own skills or the accidental stuff from other team members. However this wasn't like the raid stuff. In that open world squad, I also wasn't the only one at that high. I saw 6-8k across the board. As it was a squad, people's buffs were random of who they hit (since wasn't like moved around for optimization).

Edit: Plus, with how often classes were ABLE to hit those 35k numbers in raids... I still sat above them at 17k as a support role a lot... So just because a class CAN hit those numbers doesn't mean it does...

Nice : Tome of Justice skills by 1; it now increases the base duration (which is affected by Expertise) by 20%. i love it let me check my expertise stat hooo...... i get 20% increase of 0 very good need more boosts like this :+1:

@Ythamios.8593 said:Nice : Tome of Justice skills by 1; it now increases the base duration (which is affected by Expertise) by 20%. i love it let me check my expertise stat hooo...... i get 20% increase of 0 very good need more boosts like this :+1:

(Fixed the I think intended bolding) It's not 20% of your expertise, but 20% of the base burning.. so if base was 1 second, it's now 1.2 seconds.. which then 100% burning makes into 2.4 seconds. As opposed to 1 second base, going to 2 seconds at 100% burning. free 0.4 a second. I THINK justice tomes burn for 2 seconds each minimum... soo that's 2.4 seconds, made into 4.8 seconds, which is almost a free second.. still a HEFTY nerf.

I also capped at about 22-25 stacks of burning in my testing, but I also noticed I had higher sustained dps using axe with the rad and virt line than I did using either scepter or axe with the zeal line. Also important is that I did not have allies to use quickfire on - I believe that is still going to be a significant increase in dps. Curious if anybody else had similar results with the two traitlines and weapons, as I am not really a raider and my rotation is probably not perfect.

@Garimeth.8725 said:I also capped at about 22-25 stacks of burning in my testing, but I also noticed I had higher sustained dps using axe with the rad and virt line than I did using either scepter or axe with the zeal line. Also important is that I did not have allies to use quickfire on - I believe that is still going to be a significant increase in dps. Curious if anybody else had similar results with the two traitlines and weapons, as I am not really a raider and my rotation is probably not perfect.

I'll be testing it tonight personally with mesmer buddy for bodies for the quickfire and justice 5 ashes. Prior to this, I hit 40k finish and spiked at 45k. If i can finish in 35-38k range, I think I'll be okay personally. (Though now I'm wanting that weaver nerf and soulbeast minor nerf)

@Sorin Noroku.5342 said:

@Garimeth.8725 said:I also capped at about 22-25 stacks of burning in my testing, but I also noticed I had higher sustained dps using axe with the rad and virt line than I did using either scepter or axe with the zeal line. Also important is that I did not have allies to use quickfire on - I believe that is still going to be a significant increase in dps. Curious if anybody else had similar results with the two traitlines and weapons, as I am not really a raider and my rotation is probably not perfect.

Yeah I'm interested in your results. I don't have a dps meter so I have no idea what my actual dps is I just noticed the amount that my burns ticked for averaged higher total damage with the virtues line than zeal, which surprised me. I also wonder if unrelenting criticism is better sustained dps than the extra 3 pages now. When running around I'm pretty frequently hitting unbuffed bleeds of about 800 to 1k a tick, probably not better than the 3 pages, but worth throwing it on to see. I bring it for the daze on symbol in open world.

People are getting 38k DPS post-fix.

@Mikeskies.1536 said:People are getting 38k DPS post-fix.

can you link vid/pick , i'd like to see howI tested the dps with full sinister buffs/food and mesmer friend ofc, got to 33k dps at finish against 46k dps finish before nerf... alone i was at 30k before now 24K

@Mikeskies.1536 said:People are getting 38k DPS post-fix.

I assume that's with it specced to all the tome traits? I wonder what the dps would be for maximum upkeep of quickfire with a group.

@Garimeth.8725 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:People are getting 38k DPS post-fix.

That's with Quickfire.

@Ythamios.8593 said:Nice : Tome of Justice skills by 1; it now increases the base duration (which is affected by Expertise) by 20%. i love it let me check my expertise stat hooo...... i get 20% increase of 0 very good need more boosts like this :+1:

You misunderstood the change.

The trait now increases the base duration of the burn. It's not +20% burn duration, because that would mean you could only get +80% from other sources of condi duration (like expertise), and it would be completely useless for builds that already have max burning duration.

So, if a burn was 4 seconds, it becomes 4.8s with the trait and 9.6s with 100% burn duration.

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Sorin Noroku.5342 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:All DPS specs should be 35k DPS max, which Anet will balance to eventually.

This isnt power creep honestly in context. This a is a damage specialisation on a traditionally top tier damage profession that has no significant breakbar or support elements.

As a raid leader, i would honestly question the value of even bringing a staff weaver, as its rotation takes huge skill to pull off, is only best on large, stationary foes, and otherwise they bring literally nothing to the raid composition. I dont care about benchmarks, i care about realistic fight parses.

Lets give it some time to see what people can pull off with the new specalizations on Raidar before we start asking for the nerf bat.

We knew it was coming and it came in a way that did exactly what it should have done. It stopped stupidly high DPS from occuring in PvE. It stopped people from instant nuking team fights in PvP (No, that's not supposed to happen, get good and learn to play a real build that requires more thought than three buttons) and it barely did a thing to WvW builds. Overall it struck where it was supposed to. Good job Anet.

New DPS benchmark is 38k.