Core warrior is broken — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Core warrior is broken

cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

All warriors really, but core warrior's damage needs some reduction for the sustain that it has. Axe in particular.

Comments

  • I sometimes play zerk core war. It has high damage, yes, but that's all. There's no camping outnumbered fights with it like spellbreaker. Plenty of things can 1v1 you, so you have to be very map aware and apply the damage where it will be useful to the team.

    TL;DR - It's fine.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    biggest cancer for me is I need to dodge every attack cuz it hurts as hell. Today a met warrior I hit him 500 with 1AA strike(not whole chain) and he 1shoted me (almost) just by GS3 :D +add every second 3% heal up its strong. Not impossible to win but definetly its comfy to be tankiest while hitting this hard. On rev for example you need sacrifice almost everything only for same heal per sec.

    Jokaurene

  • ProverbsofHell.2307ProverbsofHell.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Joke topic, waaaaaah I can't beat a core warrior the most basic and telegraphed class going.

  • @Spartacus.3192 said:
    just play mirage......every other class feels underpowered in comparison :lol:

    MIrage has a meh match up against core warrior.

  • Abazigal.3679Abazigal.3679 Member ✭✭✭

    As a warrior main, i can agree 3rd greatsword skill damage is debatable since it has a huge range, and damage volatility can be really high and unexpected. Though , i agree with Fat Disgrace , it's all melee skills, almost no annoying condition, and you can see most of the damage coming.

    A nerf wouldn't be a major scandal to be honest, but i think there are other builds that should also be adressed first.

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Eme.2018 said:
    With the current levels of damage mitigation, heals and sustain that are in the game, Warrior damage seems fair to me. All the bursts and especially eviscerate, are super telegraphed as well.

    That would be fair if warrior was not the one with one of the very best dmg mitigation, heals and sustain. That's why it's not fair.

    Also "telegraphed" becomes unsubstantial with Warrior as it has way too many skills that you just absolutely have to dodge, blind or interrupt, so you are totally bound to get hit by something like 3bar Eviscerate with almost 100% certainty.

    It's just that Spellbreaker nerfs are too fresh and people are not yet ready to discover just how incredibly powerful Core Warrior is, so like I said this will all get flamed to the ground until later time comes.

    That would be fair if warrior was a range class and maximum targets were 5,
    But no, warrior is melee and most of warrior's skills are maxed at 1 or 3 targets. We have a few 5 target skills but most of ours skills are single target or 3 targets.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • Eviscerate is too hard to dodge so I get hit for 10k :( I wish core warrior was more telegraphed

  • spartan.9421spartan.9421 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2019

    Don't get hit by burst skills and try to keep poison and weakness on the warrior. Weakness will negate a fair amount of damage and crits and poison will negate a fair amount of healing.

    Know what to dodge. Warrior has arguably the most telegraphed skills. Kiting works wonders as well. Warrior is limited to melee if you have range then use it.

    Warrior is not really that "broken" just learn a bit of counterplay for them.

    Why are you even reading this?

  • spartan.9421spartan.9421 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2019

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    @dagger dave.5201 said:
    Eviscerate is too hard to dodge so I get hit for 10k :( I wish core warrior was more telegraphed

    throw axe 7k crits.... tho...

    @spartan.9421 said:
    Don't get hit by burst skills and try to keep poison and weakness on ANY class

    Will work on every class rofl xD

    You misquoted me.

    Why are you even reading this?

  • 2:43 am, first post of the year complaining again of the warrior, these people do not rest lol

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Core Warrior has a lack of bursting frequency when it's missing Full Counter "which recharges all burst skills on use and is a burst skill in itself", and in this high damage meta its health regen effects are no where near as useful as they used to be. Not sure why Core Warrior is being complained about?

    When I was test playing this new Sword Spellbreaker thing, I quickly identified "Why" it was good. It ditches the would-be sustain effects for sheer raw offensive pressure paired with ever cycling choo choo train CCs and superior mobility, which ends up being better in this current meta than things like Heal Sig & AH, which don't matter at all when you're being 2v1 focused by things like Holosmiths & Heralds. That build is a Thief on steroids that can't stealth.

    If anything was wrong with Warrior, it would be that the meta is pigeonholing them into running these ultra burst builds with heavy CC. The 1st problem here is that with the GS trait buff, the damage output is getting to be a bit questionable. It isn't that they deal one large burst in the way that a DE does, it's that EVERYTHING they do is smacking you for 6k-7k or more, with large melee range and way too many gap closing skills/CCs/Soft CCs, and effects like heavy stability uptime & Warrior's Sprint to boot. So you can't simply "save your defenses for the big stuff" because everything it does deals heavy damage and you can't get away from it without stealth and top end disengage factor, which most builds or even classes in the game are not capable of. The 2nd problem is that they have to do this, because Warrior sustain effects are actually bad right now compared to what other classes are capable of bringing to the table. All in all, Core Warrior GS trait needs a nerf and it's healing coefficients could use a buff. That would bring the class more streamline again.

    The 10 Commandments Of Conquest
    Abide by the commandments or God shalt deliver unto thee a packet of salt as often as thou did break them
    -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38081/the-10-commandments-of-conquest#1

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭

    Can we focus on Mesmer nerfs for now? Core warrior is nothing in comparison.

  • Rysdude.3824Rysdude.3824 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Man, warriors just cant catch a break

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    Man, warriors just cant catch a break

    "And worse things will come," the Bible says.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • ?????????????

    Boyce

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Core Warrior has a lack of bursting frequency when it's missing Full Counter "which recharges all burst skills on use and is a burst skill in itself", and in this high damage meta its health regen effects are no where near as useful as they used to be. Not sure why Core Warrior is being complained about?

    When I was test playing this new Sword Spellbreaker thing, I quickly identified "Why" it was good. It ditches the would-be sustain effects for sheer raw offensive pressure paired with ever cycling choo choo train CCs and superior mobility, which ends up being better in this current meta than things like Heal Sig & AH, which don't matter at all when you're being 2v1 focused by things like Holosmiths & Heralds. That build is a Thief on steroids that can't stealth.

    If anything was wrong with Warrior, it would be that the meta is pigeonholing them into running these ultra burst builds with heavy CC. The 1st problem here is that with the GS trait buff, the damage output is getting to be a bit questionable. It isn't that they deal one large burst in the way that a DE does, it's that EVERYTHING they do is smacking you for 6k-7k or more, with large melee range and way too many gap closing skills/CCs/Soft CCs, and effects like heavy stability uptime & Warrior's Sprint to boot. So you can't simply "save your defenses for the big stuff" because everything it does deals heavy damage and you can't get away from it without stealth and top end disengage factor, which most builds or even classes in the game are not capable of. The 2nd problem is that they have to do this, because Warrior sustain effects are actually bad right now compared to what other classes are capable of bringing to the table. All in all, Core Warrior GS trait needs a nerf and it's healing coefficients could use a buff. That would bring the class more streamline again.

    "Everything they do hurts" So what you're telling me is that you're smacking them many times while they have Shield Stance active and are just stacking Might on them so that when they use Signet or Rage, assuming they are using it, then they quite easily have 20+ stacks of might? Because that is exactly what I see a lot of people do. Also if you're dying to auto attacks from Greatsword...what are you even doing? Not kiting? Rush is the most telegraphed skill in Greatsword, which is saying something, Hundred Blades roots the Warrior, Whirlwind only does extreme damage if they somehow catch you in a corner or against a wall and Bladetrail is slow and very easily just sidestepped with movement. What are you doing complaining about GS damage with the trait? Why does that make sense to you as a complaint? Genuine question, really.

    Also the build you're talking about with Spellbreaker is very squishy and relies heavily on its mobility to disengage. Are you really complaining about Warrior gap closers that are entirely visual and not instant when there is stuff like Soulbeast lunges, Mesmer and Thief teleports around? Note I am not complaining about them, I am just questioning the train of logic being used here. Why is Warrior mobility "not okay" compared to those other classes?

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wait, someone plays core warrior and someone else thinks it needs to be nerfed. Lmao

  • Luna.6203Luna.6203 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:
    Wait, someone plays core warrior and someone else thinks it needs to be nerfed. Lmao

    Im playing core warrior because what's left ?

    Berserker is still useless and now even spellbreaker.

    This game need tune down mesmers and thiefs.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Core Warrior has a lack of bursting frequency when it's missing Full Counter "which recharges all burst skills on use and is a burst skill in itself", and in this high damage meta its health regen effects are no where near as useful as they used to be. Not sure why Core Warrior is being complained about?

    When I was test playing this new Sword Spellbreaker thing, I quickly identified "Why" it was good. It ditches the would-be sustain effects for sheer raw offensive pressure paired with ever cycling choo choo train CCs and superior mobility, which ends up being better in this current meta than things like Heal Sig & AH, which don't matter at all when you're being 2v1 focused by things like Holosmiths & Heralds. That build is a Thief on steroids that can't stealth.

    If anything was wrong with Warrior, it would be that the meta is pigeonholing them into running these ultra burst builds with heavy CC. The 1st problem here is that with the GS trait buff, the damage output is getting to be a bit questionable. It isn't that they deal one large burst in the way that a DE does, it's that EVERYTHING they do is smacking you for 6k-7k or more, with large melee range and way too many gap closing skills/CCs/Soft CCs, and effects like heavy stability uptime & Warrior's Sprint to boot. So you can't simply "save your defenses for the big stuff" because everything it does deals heavy damage and you can't get away from it without stealth and top end disengage factor, which most builds or even classes in the game are not capable of. The 2nd problem is that they have to do this, because Warrior sustain effects are actually bad right now compared to what other classes are capable of bringing to the table. All in all, Core Warrior GS trait needs a nerf and it's healing coefficients could use a buff. That would bring the class more streamline again.

    "Everything they do hurts" So what you're telling me is that you're smacking them many times while they have Shield Stance active and are just stacking Might on them so that when they use Signet or Rage, assuming they are using it, then they quite easily have 20+ stacks of might? Because that is exactly what I see a lot of people do. Also if you're dying to auto attacks from Greatsword...what are you even doing? Not kiting? Rush is the most telegraphed skill in Greatsword, which is saying something, Hundred Blades roots the Warrior, Whirlwind only does extreme damage if they somehow catch you in a corner or against a wall and Bladetrail is slow and very easily just sidestepped with movement. What are you doing complaining about GS damage with the trait? Why does that make sense to you as a complaint? Genuine question, really.

    Also the build you're talking about with Spellbreaker is very squishy and relies heavily on its mobility to disengage. Are you really complaining about Warrior gap closers that are entirely visual and not instant when there is stuff like Soulbeast lunges, Mesmer and Thief teleports around? Note I am not complaining about them, I am just questioning the train of logic being used here. Why is Warrior mobility "not okay" compared to those other classes?

    1. No, I am not telling you that I like to continuously auto attack warriors who have their shield up so that they can stack might. Not sure why I have to clarify this to you anyway, considering that the new sword spellbreakers I am referencing don't even run the defense line to use that trait to begin with.
    2. No, good warriors do not use "Signet or Rage", they use a skill called "Rampage". It is an elite skill that slightly enlarges the player and grants them an entire kit designed around gap closing CCs that hit very hard, and inordinate amounts of sustain & stability vs. this power meta.
    3. No, I did not say anything about dying to auto attacks. I'm pretty sure you derived this over exaggeration from my comment: "Everything they do hurts". But what I meant was literally what it says, and nothing more than that. Warrior 1 spam is pretty equivalent to a Holo 1 in forge, with a bit less range.
    4. Rush is not something that good Warriors use in an obvious manner when they want it to deal damage. If a good warrior wants Rush to deal damage, they bait your defenses and/or pin you down with Bull's Charge first, to make sure it hits. When it does hit, it feels like getting popped with Death's Judgement "The Deadeye skill" if you didn't catch the reference.
    5. Hundred Blades is hardly what this debacle is concerned about. It's generally used as a cleave skill, but better Warriors can make strong use of vs. standing opponents when used at the right time. It can actually be used very defensively to bait a dodge roll immediately because no one wants to stand in Hundred Blades.
    6. Whirlwind only hits hard if you're against a wall? The strength of Whirlwind isn't even about that. The strength of Whirlwind is that it's a free dodge roll while guaranteeing a strike vs. the opponent, period.
    7. I was actually not complaining about Greatsword side damage in particular at all. Go back and reread my comment very closely. It says: "The 1st problem here is that with the GS trait buff" <- I was talking about this, read about it: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forceful_Greatsword Those buffs APPLY TO EVERYTHING, but then are DOUBLED when using a Greatsword. In fact, the source of the problem is the 1-hand Sword side. With that trait, 1-hand Sword autos are dangerous, Final Thrust is dangerous, the burst on Sword is dangerous, it makes immobilization and instantly procs Tether, it isn't telegraphed to be able to dodge so easily. So when they catch you with that immob & tether, then they switch to GS so that those slower more telegraphed attacks can hit, and hit hard.
    8. You then attempt to debunk Warrior gap closers as if they weren't a thing lol - Let's take a look at the full list of Warrior gap closers: Sword #2, Shield #4 (a CC), GS #3, GS #5, Bull's Charge (a CC), Rampage #3 (a CC), Rampage #5 (a CC), Rampage #4 (ranged CC) <- That is 7 straight flat out gap closers, 7 of them, 7. And none of that is even to mention the CC on Full Counter, and that Full Counter instantly recharges all burst skills so that Sword F1 Burst Immob can be used very frequently. I don't think I need to say much else here.
    9. I didn't say anything about Warrior mobility "Not being ok". I said that Warrior damage was getting a bit high after the Forceful Greatsword Trait was buffed, and that Warrior healing coefficients needed a buff.

    Well I hope that helped answer your questions.

    1. Wasn't my point, but sure okay.

    2. Subjective. Rampage is useful CC and Damage Reduction while having pulsing Stability but predictable, can be kited and all CC abilities can be dodged/blocked/invuln'd. Thank you for being condescending, really doesn't help much.

    3. When you throw a blanket statement of "everything they do hurts" assuming you mean yes literally "everything" is the natural progression of thought so I'm pointing it out. Also subjective. Holo auto attack has nearly twice the melee range of Greatsword, and that also is not the problem nor one of the problems with Holo damage to begin with.

    4. "not something they use in an obvious manner" I'm sorry...a whaaat? In what universe is a Warrior following Bull's Charge with Rush? Why would you waste those valuable seconds of Peak Performance and the Knockdown on that? To do what? 3k-5k (5k crit mind you) damage on squishies? Why do that when you can get much more damage from a weapon swap into Hundred Blades (sigil of agility) or a Final Thrust if they are below 50% health. Rush is used as a gap close or to force a dodge out of a lower health player if they are a further distance away either kiting, running or hitting from range.

    5. Very well aware of this and that is why the above point is mentioned. Hundred Blades has better use after a Bull's Charge than rush, really after any CC so long as you weapon swap into it to proc Sigil of Agility.

    6. I know thats not why Whirlwind is strong, Whirlwind is strong because it gives an extra dodge and a maybe hit. It is not guaranteed, they could move in an entirely different direction than where you spin to and you wouldn't get a single hit off. Its also strong because of the immob cleanse.

    7. I'm well aware of the buff to Forceful Greatsword, was it necessary? Not really no, does it overtune the damage? No, it doesn't, calm down. Final Thrust has always been dangerous, the burst on sword is clunky and likely only going to murderize people at lower ranks who don't know how to not stand in the wacky waving inflatable tube sword. It is also very much telegraphed, just like any other Warrior skill, and the character does a visible 360 degree wind up "twirl" before the attacks even start. If they are swapping to GS after landing an immob with sword burst then they are proccing Sigil of Agility so that is a wholly irrelevant point. Also keep in mind Tether only pulls when an enemy goes beyond the range threshold so the warrior would need to swap to GS, rush/whatever away, activate the pull and then use Hundred Blades or Bull's Charge to extend the CC. Pretty certain Sigil of Agility's QUickness duration expires at that point. Ideally? Sword burst, Sword 2 away, Tether pulls, weapon swap, Hundred Blades.

    8. I never said Warrior gap closers were not a thing, I was implying that it makes no sense to complain about Warrior gap closers when thieves can teleport all over the place, Mesmer can teleport out of CCs or just in general, and when Soulbeast can double leap if they use GS, typically not a thing you see with Boonbeast but regardless the distance on Beast Mode Swoop is 200 units more than GS Swoop (again no I am not complaining, I'm pointing out a failure in logic).
      Sword 2, very telegraphed. Literally CC'd a guy in the middle of it and also caught one just as they landed.
      Shield 4, much slower to activate than it used to be, also nowhere near the travel distance to warrant calling it a "gap closer" due to its telegraphed activation time. Gets dodged...constantly.
      GS 3 is circumstantial, can either be used as a gap close, or through a telegraphed mobility skill for some damage or to evade dangerous attacks and disengage slightly (also cleanse immob).
      Bull's Charge also still telegraphed, slightly faster than Shield 4 but not by much. Unless used from point blank its pretty easily dodged/negated by other means despite the travel speed.
      Rampage 3 is not a CC, you might want to go look that up. Its a 1000 range dash with some damage on it but no CC. Unless you meant Rampage 2 in which case that has very little travel distance.
      Rampage 4 isn't a mobility skill so not a gap close but yes it is a ranged CC that is also very telegraphed. Note it is yet another skill that has the Warrior do a full 360 twirl before the boulder gets thrown.
      Rampage 5? Visible leap into the air, dodged or negated generally easily.

    9. No you didn't say that but you implied it. "way too many gap closing skills" Its a melee class that frequently goes up against many ranged power or condi builds and you're saying "too many gap closers". Compare that to the multi teleporting Mesmers (jaunt, blink, Staff 2) and the 1200 range Swoop on the typical boonbeast build, but pair that wit GS and it turns into 2200 range leap (Swoop + Swoop).

    You're twisting my meaning because I called you out on the silly logic you're applying to the discussion and then began to try and talk down to me...that does not make this conversation go anywhere worthwhile. So yes you did answer some of my questions but then you also raised more, like why is it that your claims in regard to the use of some of these skills are weirdly inaccurate? Why do you ignore aspects of other classes and only focus on this one thing and call it a "problem"? Warrior does too much damage now? Comparing that to things like Boonbeast and its boon uptimes and general damage output in duels, Mirage and its sustain when measured against the kind of damage it can put out both with condi and power, Herald and its near constant 25 stacks of might that make it hit like a truck, Holosmith Stability frequency and burst damage, Core Guardian burst damage when properly timed, Deadeye just...being Deadeye

    Thats what my point was. Why is this an issue and you don't call attention to these other things in comparison? Warrior damage is too much now....compared to what? looks at what was listed above

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As a core necro...i'm glad to see at least one core class can be OP...

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    they have to do this
    it's healing coefficients could use a buff.

    "NeRF heALiNG siGNeT"
    "Why is ROUSING."
    "WhY Is EnDuR PaIN (?????????) "

    I'd love to play something that didn't rely on hard CC, close range, and heavy burst to be effective, but the moment warriors get any kind of sustain we get dogpiled.

    ... Actually I'd still play hard CC and heavy burst anyway, but as of right now warriors can be shut down so many ways that gutting core without giving them sustain back would be adding insult to injury.

    Core warriors are bursty because they were forced to be that way. You take their damage away and give nothing back and the war playerbase will collapse, because that is tantamount to asking people to play a lumbering, easily targetable, marginally resistant class that cannot threaten you even if you allow it to get in your face, and people come here for fun, not to suffer.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [Balance is not going to happen Play whatever is easiest.]

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    @dagger dave.5201 said:
    Eviscerate is too hard to dodge so I get hit for 10k :( I wish core warrior was more telegraphed

    throw axe 7k crits.... tho...

    @spartan.9421 said:
    Don't get hit by burst skills and try to keep poison and weakness on ANY class

    Will work on every class rofl xD

    Throw axe only crits high is you are under 25% hp, pleeease just leave, your argument doesnt mean kitten. If you drop that low almost everything that slightly touches you will finish you anyways. Sure you will see a big number on a target under 25% but its so much overkill. On a full hp target it might crit with 2k, is easily avoided and often times it is thrown it just flies off into narnia

    I never rly dropped core for spb and always switched them up. I have more fun using core but it def has many weaknesses that spb doesnt have.
    Ppl crying about warriors dmg mitigation and sustain are somehow not realizing that this is basically a full only mellee class without any viable ranged option (and no, i wont count your special snowflake rifle warrior build as viable because you kill ppk in bronze or silver with it)
    Use their weaknesses against them, blind them, throw the condi weakness on them (a weakend warrior tickles) dodge and blind those easy to avoid eviscerates and kitten dont throw everything you have into their shieldblock.

    Core is bad in teamfights where they just get pressured on a point due to aoes alone, its more of a duellant and +1specc. If you cant handle them send your soulbeast or mirage to fight them, in plat or high gold most condi mirages can pretty easily fight and kill me and it still feels like they just roll their heads on the keyboard while just keeping an eye on their defenses to avoid one of my big hitting skills (which are basically bullscharge to prepare a big hit, eviscerate, multiple gs3 hits and under 50% arcing slice) they can even invuln or dodge while cced, so thats a bummer

    And against soulbeast you do like 0 dmg, ive hit eviscerates with atleast 2 adren bars for 2k crit, which is nothing tbh.

    The most important part, dont get hit by burst skills, they wont get their sustain from adrenal health, they wont clear condis, they wont get endurance and mist of their dmg wont hit you.

    Core warrior is one of the most balanced speccs right now and not overpowered at all, it has its counters and it has its uses
    Why do ppl always want the extremes? A complete useless class or a complete broken class

    Tl;dr
    Core warrior is balanced, can be countered and ppl need to not hit into shieldblock all day long

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Core Warrior has a lack of bursting frequency when it's missing Full Counter "which recharges all burst skills on use and is a burst skill in itself", and in this high damage meta its health regen effects are no where near as useful as they used to be. Not sure why Core Warrior is being complained about?

    When I was test playing this new Sword Spellbreaker thing, I quickly identified "Why" it was good. It ditches the would-be sustain effects for sheer raw offensive pressure paired with ever cycling choo choo train CCs and superior mobility, which ends up being better in this current meta than things like Heal Sig & AH, which don't matter at all when you're being 2v1 focused by things like Holosmiths & Heralds. That build is a Thief on steroids that can't stealth.

    If anything was wrong with Warrior, it would be that the meta is pigeonholing them into running these ultra burst builds with heavy CC. The 1st problem here is that with the GS trait buff, the damage output is getting to be a bit questionable. It isn't that they deal one large burst in the way that a DE does, it's that EVERYTHING they do is smacking you for 6k-7k or more, with large melee range and way too many gap closing skills/CCs/Soft CCs, and effects like heavy stability uptime & Warrior's Sprint to boot. So you can't simply "save your defenses for the big stuff" because everything it does deals heavy damage and you can't get away from it without stealth and top end disengage factor, which most builds or even classes in the game are not capable of. The 2nd problem is that they have to do this, because Warrior sustain effects are actually bad right now compared to what other classes are capable of bringing to the table. All in all, Core Warrior GS trait needs a nerf and it's healing coefficients could use a buff. That would bring the class more streamline again.

    "Everything they do hurts" So what you're telling me is that you're smacking them many times while they have Shield Stance active and are just stacking Might on them so that when they use Signet or Rage, assuming they are using it, then they quite easily have 20+ stacks of might? Because that is exactly what I see a lot of people do. Also if you're dying to auto attacks from Greatsword...what are you even doing? Not kiting? Rush is the most telegraphed skill in Greatsword, which is saying something, Hundred Blades roots the Warrior, Whirlwind only does extreme damage if they somehow catch you in a corner or against a wall and Bladetrail is slow and very easily just sidestepped with movement. What are you doing complaining about GS damage with the trait? Why does that make sense to you as a complaint? Genuine question, really.

    Also the build you're talking about with Spellbreaker is very squishy and relies heavily on its mobility to disengage. Are you really complaining about Warrior gap closers that are entirely visual and not instant when there is stuff like Soulbeast lunges, Mesmer and Thief teleports around? Note I am not complaining about them, I am just questioning the train of logic being used here. Why is Warrior mobility "not okay" compared to those other classes?

    1. No, I am not telling you that I like to continuously auto attack warriors who have their shield up so that they can stack might. Not sure why I have to clarify this to you anyway, considering that the new sword spellbreakers I am referencing don't even run the defense line to use that trait to begin with.
    2. No, good warriors do not use "Signet or Rage", they use a skill called "Rampage". It is an elite skill that slightly enlarges the player and grants them an entire kit designed around gap closing CCs that hit very hard, and inordinate amounts of sustain & stability vs. this power meta.
    3. No, I did not say anything about dying to auto attacks. I'm pretty sure you derived this over exaggeration from my comment: "Everything they do hurts". But what I meant was literally what it says, and nothing more than that. Warrior 1 spam is pretty equivalent to a Holo 1 in forge, with a bit less range.
    4. Rush is not something that good Warriors use in an obvious manner when they want it to deal damage. If a good warrior wants Rush to deal damage, they bait your defenses and/or pin you down with Bull's Charge first, to make sure it hits. When it does hit, it feels like getting popped with Death's Judgement "The Deadeye skill" if you didn't catch the reference.
    5. Hundred Blades is hardly what this debacle is concerned about. It's generally used as a cleave skill, but better Warriors can make strong use of vs. standing opponents when used at the right time. It can actually be used very defensively to bait a dodge roll immediately because no one wants to stand in Hundred Blades.
    6. Whirlwind only hits hard if you're against a wall? The strength of Whirlwind isn't even about that. The strength of Whirlwind is that it's a free dodge roll while guaranteeing a strike vs. the opponent, period.
    7. I was actually not complaining about Greatsword side damage in particular at all. Go back and reread my comment very closely. It says: "The 1st problem here is that with the GS trait buff" <- I was talking about this, read about it: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forceful_Greatsword Those buffs APPLY TO EVERYTHING, but then are DOUBLED when using a Greatsword. In fact, the source of the problem is the 1-hand Sword side. With that trait, 1-hand Sword autos are dangerous, Final Thrust is dangerous, the burst on Sword is dangerous, it makes immobilization and instantly procs Tether, it isn't telegraphed to be able to dodge so easily. So when they catch you with that immob & tether, then they switch to GS so that those slower more telegraphed attacks can hit, and hit hard.
    8. You then attempt to debunk Warrior gap closers as if they weren't a thing lol - Let's take a look at the full list of Warrior gap closers: Sword #2, Shield #4 (a CC), GS #3, GS #5, Bull's Charge (a CC), Rampage #3 (a CC), Rampage #5 (a CC), Rampage #4 (ranged CC) <- That is 7 straight flat out gap closers, 7 of them, 7. And none of that is even to mention the CC on Full Counter, and that Full Counter instantly recharges all burst skills so that Sword F1 Burst Immob can be used very frequently. I don't think I need to say much else here.
    9. I didn't say anything about Warrior mobility "Not being ok". I said that Warrior damage was getting a bit high after the Forceful Greatsword Trait was buffed, and that Warrior healing coefficients needed a buff.

    Well I hope that helped answer your questions.

    1. Wasn't my point, but sure okay.

    2. Subjective. Rampage is useful CC and Damage Reduction while having pulsing Stability but predictable, can be kited and all CC abilities can be dodged/blocked/invuln'd. Thank you for being condescending, really doesn't help much.

    3. When you throw a blanket statement of "everything they do hurts" assuming you mean yes literally "everything" is the natural progression of thought so I'm pointing it out. Also subjective. Holo auto attack has nearly twice the melee range of Greatsword, and that also is not the problem nor one of the problems with Holo damage to begin with.

    4. "not something they use in an obvious manner" I'm sorry...a whaaat? In what universe is a Warrior following Bull's Charge with Rush? Why would you waste those valuable seconds of Peak Performance and the Knockdown on that? To do what? 3k-5k (5k crit mind you) damage on squishies? Why do that when you can get much more damage from a weapon swap into Hundred Blades (sigil of agility) or a Final Thrust if they are below 50% health. Rush is used as a gap close or to force a dodge out of a lower health player if they are a further distance away either kiting, running or hitting from range.

    5. Very well aware of this and that is why the above point is mentioned. Hundred Blades has better use after a Bull's Charge than rush, really after any CC so long as you weapon swap into it to proc Sigil of Agility.

    6. I know thats not why Whirlwind is strong, Whirlwind is strong because it gives an extra dodge and a maybe hit. It is not guaranteed, they could move in an entirely different direction than where you spin to and you wouldn't get a single hit off. Its also strong because of the immob cleanse.

    7. I'm well aware of the buff to Forceful Greatsword, was it necessary? Not really no, does it overtune the damage? No, it doesn't, calm down. Final Thrust has always been dangerous, the burst on sword is clunky and likely only going to murderize people at lower ranks who don't know how to not stand in the wacky waving inflatable tube sword. It is also very much telegraphed, just like any other Warrior skill, and the character does a visible 360 degree wind up "twirl" before the attacks even start. If they are swapping to GS after landing an immob with sword burst then they are proccing Sigil of Agility so that is a wholly irrelevant point. Also keep in mind Tether only pulls when an enemy goes beyond the range threshold so the warrior would need to swap to GS, rush/whatever away, activate the pull and then use Hundred Blades or Bull's Charge to extend the CC. Pretty certain Sigil of Agility's QUickness duration expires at that point. Ideally? Sword burst, Sword 2 away, Tether pulls, weapon swap, Hundred Blades.

    8. I never said Warrior gap closers were not a thing, I was implying that it makes no sense to complain about Warrior gap closers when thieves can teleport all over the place, Mesmer can teleport out of CCs or just in general, and when Soulbeast can double leap if they use GS, typically not a thing you see with Boonbeast but regardless the distance on Beast Mode Swoop is 200 units more than GS Swoop (again no I am not complaining, I'm pointing out a failure in logic).
      Sword 2, very telegraphed. Literally CC'd a guy in the middle of it and also caught one just as they landed.
      Shield 4, much slower to activate than it used to be, also nowhere near the travel distance to warrant calling it a "gap closer" due to its telegraphed activation time. Gets dodged...constantly.
      GS 3 is circumstantial, can either be used as a gap close, or through a telegraphed mobility skill for some damage or to evade dangerous attacks and disengage slightly (also cleanse immob).
      Bull's Charge also still telegraphed, slightly faster than Shield 4 but not by much. Unless used from point blank its pretty easily dodged/negated by other means despite the travel speed.
      Rampage 3 is not a CC, you might want to go look that up. Its a 1000 range dash with some damage on it but no CC. Unless you meant Rampage 2 in which case that has very little travel distance.
      Rampage 4 isn't a mobility skill so not a gap close but yes it is a ranged CC that is also very telegraphed. Note it is yet another skill that has the Warrior do a full 360 twirl before the boulder gets thrown.
      Rampage 5? Visible leap into the air, dodged or negated generally easily.

    9. No you didn't say that but you implied it. "way too many gap closing skills" Its a melee class that frequently goes up against many ranged power or condi builds and you're saying "too many gap closers". Compare that to the multi teleporting Mesmers (jaunt, blink, Staff 2) and the 1200 range Swoop on the typical boonbeast build, but pair that wit GS and it turns into 2200 range leap (Swoop + Swoop).

    You're twisting my meaning because I called you out on the silly logic you're applying to the discussion and then began to try and talk down to me...that does not make this conversation go anywhere worthwhile. So yes you did answer some of my questions but then you also raised more, like why is it that your claims in regard to the use of some of these skills are weirdly inaccurate? Why do you ignore aspects of other classes and only focus on this one thing and call it a "problem"? Warrior does too much damage now? Comparing that to things like Boonbeast and its boon uptimes and general damage output in duels, Mirage and its sustain when measured against the kind of damage it can put out both with condi and power, Herald and its near constant 25 stacks of might that make it hit like a truck, Holosmith Stability frequency and burst damage, Core Guardian burst damage when properly timed, Deadeye just...being Deadeye

    Thats what my point was. Why is this an issue and you don't call attention to these other things in comparison? Warrior damage is too much now....compared to what? looks at what was listed above

    1. lol, it literally was your point. That is what you said and what you implied, which is why I pointed it out and explained the folly in your assumption.
    2. Rampage is not so predictable in 2v2s or after the Warrior has baited out your defenses. Sometimes they use Rampage to bait out your defenses so that they can hit with other things when it is on CD.
    3. What are you talking about here? You just deviated extremely far from any relevant points being made in this discussion or anything that I even personally said myself lol. You can scream "blanket statement" all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the statement was true. Then you tell me "it's all subjective" as if me explaining my personal experience playing as and against warriors wasn't subjective? Do you even know what subjective means oO?
    4. Many of your points here actually contradict points that you made in your first post regarding certain Warrior attacks being useful and/or not useful lol. You're just changing things up to try to make arguments. ^^
    5. You make more points that should have been a part of 4.
    6. Then you make demonstration to me about how you know about Whirlwind.
    7. You're just finding reasons to disagree with me here. Normally I don't argue with a persona's "subjective" experiences, but you are just changing things that you say for the sake of argument, which leads me to question if anything you are saying is coming from experience at all, or if you're just naturally typing in the opposite of what I say for the sake of arguing with me. I figured I'd go along with it to create an interesting read.
    8. Ok bud, we already covered your point here in my first post. I already stated that "most classes don't possess the ability to disengage a Warrior" but you insist on stating it again in the form of exampling how a Thief or Mesmer can disengage a Warrior, as if you were correcting me, when I already very plaining and concisely explained that classes with stealthing and top end disengage can escape a Warrior, lol. And then you explain how a Soulbeast GS 3 Swoop paired with Merge "Dash it's called, it isn't a 2nd swoop ^^", is able to outrun a Warrior? Yeah... it's all subjective right? I'm guessing you lack a bit of subjective experience as Soulbeast. You do realize that the primary reason why that new Sword Spellbreaker was built was specifically to counter Soulbeasts right? It was to fashion a side node class that can actually kill a Soulbeast 1v1 or at least force it off a node for decap. Then you continue to explain how telegraphed and easy everything is to dodge, but you're still missing the one point that I've said half a dozen times now: "But there are so many things that need to be dodged, that eventually you get baited out of defenses, and things begin hitting you" <- Stop ignoring the stated point, you can stop explaining how telegraphed everything is, we all figured out the animations in year 1.
    9. I didn't twist anything up my good fellow, I simply pointed out your flaws in assumptions and convoluted responses to my statements. I am sure that you believe that you are right or maybe even know that you are right "As everything is subjective right?" but I think that when you read posts in this forum, you should take what is said literally, instead of trying to look deeply into it, attempting to assume deeper meanings past what is stated. For example: If I say "The car is red", I mean only that "The car is red", I do not mean "The car is red with blue stripes" or "The car is dealing too much damage", I only mean exactly what I said "The car is red".

    All in all, I can say that most forum users who respond to my posts come at me with raw data and statistics, or extremely strong subjective points of view that don't change and twist from post to post, they stay consistent. They will question direct literal statements that I made or argue them, which I enjoy. But your statements on the other hand are just plain confusing. Almost 75% of what you've responded with didn't even have anything to do with what I said, it was all strange mental association jumps, leading you into strange arguments that I wasn't even commenting on to begin with. So let's get this back on track with a summary of what I said: "Warrior damage is beginning to get questionable, and they are being pigeonholed into running burst builds that play similar to a Thief with no stealth, and that maybe this is happening due to Warrior sustain suffering in the current meta, maybe Warrior sustain coefficients need a slight buff to bring it streamline with other classes again." Now the productive way to disagree with me, is simply to respond with something like this: "I think Warrior damage is fine, and I still play effectively on older Spellbreaker builds, I also kind of feel like Warrior has too much sustain." and then explain why. But when you take a public general statement that isn't even directed towards you personally, and then come back with attacking another user's statements, questioning them all the way, you're just asking to enter a situation like this, that isn't productive at all.

    At any rate, best of luck for the end of the season.

    The 10 Commandments Of Conquest
    Abide by the commandments or God shalt deliver unto thee a packet of salt as often as thou did break them
    -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38081/the-10-commandments-of-conquest#1

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Core Warrior has a lack of bursting frequency when it's missing Full Counter "which recharges all burst skills on use and is a burst skill in itself", and in this high damage meta its health regen effects are no where near as useful as they used to be. Not sure why Core Warrior is being complained about?

    When I was test playing this new Sword Spellbreaker thing, I quickly identified "Why" it was good. It ditches the would-be sustain effects for sheer raw offensive pressure paired with ever cycling choo choo train CCs and superior mobility, which ends up being better in this current meta than things like Heal Sig & AH, which don't matter at all when you're being 2v1 focused by things like Holosmiths & Heralds. That build is a Thief on steroids that can't stealth.

    If anything was wrong with Warrior, it would be that the meta is pigeonholing them into running these ultra burst builds with heavy CC. The 1st problem here is that with the GS trait buff, the damage output is getting to be a bit questionable. It isn't that they deal one large burst in the way that a DE does, it's that EVERYTHING they do is smacking you for 6k-7k or more, with large melee range and way too many gap closing skills/CCs/Soft CCs, and effects like heavy stability uptime & Warrior's Sprint to boot. So you can't simply "save your defenses for the big stuff" because everything it does deals heavy damage and you can't get away from it without stealth and top end disengage factor, which most builds or even classes in the game are not capable of. The 2nd problem is that they have to do this, because Warrior sustain effects are actually bad right now compared to what other classes are capable of bringing to the table. All in all, Core Warrior GS trait needs a nerf and it's healing coefficients could use a buff. That would bring the class more streamline again.

    "Everything they do hurts" So what you're telling me is that you're smacking them many times while they have Shield Stance active and are just stacking Might on them so that when they use Signet or Rage, assuming they are using it, then they quite easily have 20+ stacks of might? Because that is exactly what I see a lot of people do. Also if you're dying to auto attacks from Greatsword...what are you even doing? Not kiting? Rush is the most telegraphed skill in Greatsword, which is saying something, Hundred Blades roots the Warrior, Whirlwind only does extreme damage if they somehow catch you in a corner or against a wall and Bladetrail is slow and very easily just sidestepped with movement. What are you doing complaining about GS damage with the trait? Why does that make sense to you as a complaint? Genuine question, really.

    Also the build you're talking about with Spellbreaker is very squishy and relies heavily on its mobility to disengage. Are you really complaining about Warrior gap closers that are entirely visual and not instant when there is stuff like Soulbeast lunges, Mesmer and Thief teleports around? Note I am not complaining about them, I am just questioning the train of logic being used here. Why is Warrior mobility "not okay" compared to those other classes?

    1. No, I am not telling you that I like to continuously auto attack warriors who have their shield up so that they can stack might. Not sure why I have to clarify this to you anyway, considering that the new sword spellbreakers I am referencing don't even run the defense line to use that trait to begin with.
    2. No, good warriors do not use "Signet or Rage", they use a skill called "Rampage". It is an elite skill that slightly enlarges the player and grants them an entire kit designed around gap closing CCs that hit very hard, and inordinate amounts of sustain & stability vs. this power meta.
    3. No, I did not say anything about dying to auto attacks. I'm pretty sure you derived this over exaggeration from my comment: "Everything they do hurts". But what I meant was literally what it says, and nothing more than that. Warrior 1 spam is pretty equivalent to a Holo 1 in forge, with a bit less range.
    4. Rush is not something that good Warriors use in an obvious manner when they want it to deal damage. If a good warrior wants Rush to deal damage, they bait your defenses and/or pin you down with Bull's Charge first, to make sure it hits. When it does hit, it feels like getting popped with Death's Judgement "The Deadeye skill" if you didn't catch the reference.
    5. Hundred Blades is hardly what this debacle is concerned about. It's generally used as a cleave skill, but better Warriors can make strong use of vs. standing opponents when used at the right time. It can actually be used very defensively to bait a dodge roll immediately because no one wants to stand in Hundred Blades.
    6. Whirlwind only hits hard if you're against a wall? The strength of Whirlwind isn't even about that. The strength of Whirlwind is that it's a free dodge roll while guaranteeing a strike vs. the opponent, period.
    7. I was actually not complaining about Greatsword side damage in particular at all. Go back and reread my comment very closely. It says: "The 1st problem here is that with the GS trait buff" <- I was talking about this, read about it: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forceful_Greatsword Those buffs APPLY TO EVERYTHING, but then are DOUBLED when using a Greatsword. In fact, the source of the problem is the 1-hand Sword side. With that trait, 1-hand Sword autos are dangerous, Final Thrust is dangerous, the burst on Sword is dangerous, it makes immobilization and instantly procs Tether, it isn't telegraphed to be able to dodge so easily. So when they catch you with that immob & tether, then they switch to GS so that those slower more telegraphed attacks can hit, and hit hard.
    8. You then attempt to debunk Warrior gap closers as if they weren't a thing lol - Let's take a look at the full list of Warrior gap closers: Sword #2, Shield #4 (a CC), GS #3, GS #5, Bull's Charge (a CC), Rampage #3 (a CC), Rampage #5 (a CC), Rampage #4 (ranged CC) <- That is 7 straight flat out gap closers, 7 of them, 7. And none of that is even to mention the CC on Full Counter, and that Full Counter instantly recharges all burst skills so that Sword F1 Burst Immob can be used very frequently. I don't think I need to say much else here.
    9. I didn't say anything about Warrior mobility "Not being ok". I said that Warrior damage was getting a bit high after the Forceful Greatsword Trait was buffed, and that Warrior healing coefficients needed a buff.

    Well I hope that helped answer your questions.

    1. Wasn't my point, but sure okay.

    2. Subjective. Rampage is useful CC and Damage Reduction while having pulsing Stability but predictable, can be kited and all CC abilities can be dodged/blocked/invuln'd. Thank you for being condescending, really doesn't help much.

    3. When you throw a blanket statement of "everything they do hurts" assuming you mean yes literally "everything" is the natural progression of thought so I'm pointing it out. Also subjective. Holo auto attack has nearly twice the melee range of Greatsword, and that also is not the problem nor one of the problems with Holo damage to begin with.

    4. "not something they use in an obvious manner" I'm sorry...a whaaat? In what universe is a Warrior following Bull's Charge with Rush? Why would you waste those valuable seconds of Peak Performance and the Knockdown on that? To do what? 3k-5k (5k crit mind you) damage on squishies? Why do that when you can get much more damage from a weapon swap into Hundred Blades (sigil of agility) or a Final Thrust if they are below 50% health. Rush is used as a gap close or to force a dodge out of a lower health player if they are a further distance away either kiting, running or hitting from range.

    5. Very well aware of this and that is why the above point is mentioned. Hundred Blades has better use after a Bull's Charge than rush, really after any CC so long as you weapon swap into it to proc Sigil of Agility.

    6. I know thats not why Whirlwind is strong, Whirlwind is strong because it gives an extra dodge and a maybe hit. It is not guaranteed, they could move in an entirely different direction than where you spin to and you wouldn't get a single hit off. Its also strong because of the immob cleanse.

    7. I'm well aware of the buff to Forceful Greatsword, was it necessary? Not really no, does it overtune the damage? No, it doesn't, calm down. Final Thrust has always been dangerous, the burst on sword is clunky and likely only going to murderize people at lower ranks who don't know how to not stand in the wacky waving inflatable tube sword. It is also very much telegraphed, just like any other Warrior skill, and the character does a visible 360 degree wind up "twirl" before the attacks even start. If they are swapping to GS after landing an immob with sword burst then they are proccing Sigil of Agility so that is a wholly irrelevant point. Also keep in mind Tether only pulls when an enemy goes beyond the range threshold so the warrior would need to swap to GS, rush/whatever away, activate the pull and then use Hundred Blades or Bull's Charge to extend the CC. Pretty certain Sigil of Agility's QUickness duration expires at that point. Ideally? Sword burst, Sword 2 away, Tether pulls, weapon swap, Hundred Blades.

    8. I never said Warrior gap closers were not a thing, I was implying that it makes no sense to complain about Warrior gap closers when thieves can teleport all over the place, Mesmer can teleport out of CCs or just in general, and when Soulbeast can double leap if they use GS, typically not a thing you see with Boonbeast but regardless the distance on Beast Mode Swoop is 200 units more than GS Swoop (again no I am not complaining, I'm pointing out a failure in logic).
      Sword 2, very telegraphed. Literally CC'd a guy in the middle of it and also caught one just as they landed.
      Shield 4, much slower to activate than it used to be, also nowhere near the travel distance to warrant calling it a "gap closer" due to its telegraphed activation time. Gets dodged...constantly.
      GS 3 is circumstantial, can either be used as a gap close, or through a telegraphed mobility skill for some damage or to evade dangerous attacks and disengage slightly (also cleanse immob).
      Bull's Charge also still telegraphed, slightly faster than Shield 4 but not by much. Unless used from point blank its pretty easily dodged/negated by other means despite the travel speed.
      Rampage 3 is not a CC, you might want to go look that up. Its a 1000 range dash with some damage on it but no CC. Unless you meant Rampage 2 in which case that has very little travel distance.
      Rampage 4 isn't a mobility skill so not a gap close but yes it is a ranged CC that is also very telegraphed. Note it is yet another skill that has the Warrior do a full 360 twirl before the boulder gets thrown.
      Rampage 5? Visible leap into the air, dodged or negated generally easily.

    9. No you didn't say that but you implied it. "way too many gap closing skills" Its a melee class that frequently goes up against many ranged power or condi builds and you're saying "too many gap closers". Compare that to the multi teleporting Mesmers (jaunt, blink, Staff 2) and the 1200 range Swoop on the typical boonbeast build, but pair that wit GS and it turns into 2200 range leap (Swoop + Swoop).

    You're twisting my meaning because I called you out on the silly logic you're applying to the discussion and then began to try and talk down to me...that does not make this conversation go anywhere worthwhile. So yes you did answer some of my questions but then you also raised more, like why is it that your claims in regard to the use of some of these skills are weirdly inaccurate? Why do you ignore aspects of other classes and only focus on this one thing and call it a "problem"? Warrior does too much damage now? Comparing that to things like Boonbeast and its boon uptimes and general damage output in duels, Mirage and its sustain when measured against the kind of damage it can put out both with condi and power, Herald and its near constant 25 stacks of might that make it hit like a truck, Holosmith Stability frequency and burst damage, Core Guardian burst damage when properly timed, Deadeye just...being Deadeye

    Thats what my point was. Why is this an issue and you don't call attention to these other things in comparison? Warrior damage is too much now....compared to what? looks at what was listed above

    1. lol, it literally was your point. That is what you said and what you implied, which is why I pointed it out and explained the folly in your assumption.
    2. Rampage is not so predictable in 2v2s or after the Warrior has baited out your defenses. Sometimes they use Rampage to bait out your defenses so that they can hit with other things when it is on CD.
    3. What are you talking about here? You just deviated extremely far from any relevant points being made in this discussion or anything that I even personally said myself lol. You can scream "blanket statement" all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the statement was true. Then you tell me "it's all subjective" as if me explaining my personal experience playing as and against warriors wasn't subjective? Do you even know what subjective means oO?
    4. Many of your points here actually contradict points that you made in your first post regarding certain Warrior attacks being useful and/or not useful lol. You're just changing things up to try to make arguments. ^^
    5. You make more points that should have been a part of 4.
    6. Then you make demonstration to me about how you know about Whirlwind.
    7. You're just finding reasons to disagree with me here. Normally I don't argue with a persona's "subjective" experiences, but you are just changing things that you say for the sake of argument, which leads me to question if anything you are saying is coming from experience at all, or if you're just naturally typing in the opposite of what I say for the sake of arguing with me. I figured I'd go along with it to create an interesting read.
    8. Ok bud, we already covered your point here in my first post. I already stated that "most classes don't possess the ability to disengage a Warrior" but you insist on stating it again in the form of exampling how a Thief or Mesmer can disengage a Warrior, as if you were correcting me, when I already very plaining and concisely explained that classes with stealthing and top end disengage can escape a Warrior, lol. And then you explain how a Soulbeast GS 3 Swoop paired with Merge "Dash it's called, it isn't a 2nd swoop ^^", is able to outrun a Warrior? Yeah... it's all subjective right? I'm guessing you lack a bit of subjective experience as Soulbeast. You do realize that the primary reason why that new Sword Spellbreaker was built was specifically to counter Soulbeasts right? It was to fashion a side node class that can actually kill a Soulbeast 1v1 or at least force it off a node for decap. Then you continue to explain how telegraphed and easy everything is to dodge, but you're still missing the one point that I've said half a dozen times now: "But there are so many things that need to be dodged, that eventually you get baited out of defenses, and things begin hitting you" <- Stop ignoring the stated point, you can stop explaining how telegraphed everything is, we all figured out the animations in year 1.
    9. I didn't twist anything up my good fellow, I simply pointed out your flaws in assumptions and convoluted responses to my statements. I am sure that you believe that you are right or maybe even know that you are right "As everything is subjective right?" but I think that when you read posts in this forum, you should take what is said literally, instead of trying to look deeply into it, attempting to assume deeper meanings past what is stated. For example: If I say "The car is red", I mean only that "The car is red", I do not mean "The car is red with blue stripes" or "The car is dealing too much damage", I only mean exactly what I said "The car is red".

    All in all, I can say that most forum users who respond to my posts come at me with raw data and statistics, or extremely strong subjective points of view that don't change and twist from post to post, they stay consistent. They will question direct literal statements that I made or argue them, which I enjoy. But your statements on the other hand are just plain confusing. Almost 75% of what you've responded with didn't even have anything to do with what I said, it was all strange mental association jumps, leading you into strange arguments that I wasn't even commenting on to begin with. So let's get this back on track with a summary of what I said: "Warrior damage is beginning to get questionable, and they are being pigeonholed into running burst builds that play similar to a Thief with no stealth, and that maybe this is happening due to Warrior sustain suffering in the current meta, maybe Warrior sustain coefficients need a slight buff to bring it streamline with other classes again." Now the productive way to disagree with me, is simply to respond with something like this: "I think Warrior damage is fine, and I still play effectively on older Spellbreaker builds, I also kind of feel like Warrior has too much sustain." and then explain why. But when you take a public general statement that isn't even directed towards you personally, and then come back with attacking another user's statements, questioning them all the way, you're just asking to enter a situation like this, that isn't productive at all.

    At any rate, best of luck for the end of the season.

    "lol, it literally was your point. That is what you said and what you implied, which is why I pointed it out and explained the folly in your assumption."

    I was more parodying your condescension that you consistently bring into your posts by implying you were either dumb or inept, and you seemed to bring this condescension in again immediately after I made that post.

    1. No, good warriors do not use "Signet or Rage", they use a skill called "Rampage". It is an elite skill that slightly enlarges the player and grants them an entire kit designed around gap closing CCs that hit very hard, and inordinate amounts of sustain & stability vs. this power meta.

    "2. Rampage is not so predictable in 2v2s or after the Warrior has baited out your defenses. Sometimes they use Rampage to bait out your defenses so that they can hit with other things when it is on CD."

    Not untrue, actually very accurate compared to what you said about people using Bull's Charge to set up Rush (see quote below). Depends on what kind of access to stability they have and if any substantial healing is there, i.e if its a Firebrand + Holosmith, I'm not saying Rampage is useless...you seem to jump to extremes when I make a statement about anything to try and discredit it.

    1. Rush is not something that good Warriors use in an obvious manner when they want it to deal damage. If a good warrior wants Rush to deal damage, they bait your defenses and/or pin you down with Bull's Charge first, to make sure it hits. When it does hit, it feels like getting popped with Death's Judgement "The Deadeye skill" if you didn't catch the reference.

    "3. What are you talking about here? You just deviated extremely far from any relevant points being made in this discussion or anything that I even personally said myself lol. You can scream "blanket statement" all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the statement was true. Then you tell me "it's all subjective" as if me explaining my personal experience playing as and against warriors wasn't subjective? Do you even know what subjective means oO?"

    Except I didn't deviate from it. You literally said in the post previous to this one:

    "3. No, I did not say anything about dying to auto attacks. I'm pretty sure you derived this over exaggeration from my comment: "Everything they do hurts". But what I meant was literally what it says, and nothing more than that. Warrior 1 spam is pretty equivalent to a Holo 1 in forge, with a bit less range."

    You first go about saying I over exaggerated it to then saying you were being literal to then saying its not relevant. How am I supposed to take that then? That you meant literally (as you yourself said) "everything they do hurts" which, when speaking in literal terms means every skill they use. I even went to the extent of explaining why the two auto attacks don't compare to one another and why that is also irrelevant.

    "4. Many of your points here actually contradict points that you made in your first post regarding certain Warrior attacks being useful and/or not useful lol"

    I never said anything about certain warrior attacks being useful and/or not useful, I said that they don't go to the extreme that you tried to detail that they go to.

    "5. You make more points that should have been a part of 4."

    I was simply keeping to the structure that you initially used to address points individually, you like your numbered/bullet lists so I figured I'd stick with it to keep things organized. And it was late, it was easier to do than to figure out how to address it in another format.

    " 6. Then you make demonstration to me about how you know about Whirlwind."

    Again, the above.

    "7. You're just finding reasons to disagree with me here. Normally I don't argue with a persona's "subjective" experiences, but you are just changing things that you say for the sake of argument, which leads me to question if anything you are saying is coming from experience at all, or if you're just naturally typing in the opposite of what I say for the sake of arguing with me. I figured I'd go along with it to create an interesting read."

    You know what sure, I can level with you here. Its true you did not directly state that greatsword damage was a problem initially, that was not something you did. You said that the "problem" lies with how the buff also applies to all other weapons and that it was making sword more threatening. With that sure I can concede I wasn't on point. Never changed anything I said though, I did keep it consistent that I was trying to refute what I thought you were talking about.

    "8. Ok bud, we already covered your point here in my first post. I already stated that "most classes don't possess the ability to disengage a Warrior" but you insist on stating it again in the form of exampling how a Thief or Mesmer can disengage a Warrior, as if you were correcting me, when I already very plaining and concisely explained that classes with stealthing and top end disengage can escape a Warrior, lol. And then you explain how a Soulbeast GS 3 Swoop paired with Merge "Dash it's called, it isn't a 2nd swoop ^^", is able to outrun a Warrior? Yeah... it's all subjective right? I'm guessing you lack a bit of subjective experience as Soulbeast. You do realize that the primary reason why that new Sword Spellbreaker was built was specifically to counter Soulbeasts right? It was to fashion a side node class that can actually kill a Soulbeast 1v1 or at least force it off a node for decap. Then you continue to explain how telegraphed and easy everything is to dodge, but you're still missing the one point that I've said half a dozen times now: "But there are so many things that need to be dodged, that eventually you get baited out of defenses, and things begin hitting you" <- Stop ignoring the stated point, you can stop explaining how telegraphed everything is, we all figured out the animations in year 1."

    I know you stated that, I think you ignored the end of my post. I tried to address what you posted individually and I can see now that doing that likely made my latter point at the end of my last post rather convoluted because you had to yet again also individually address these things that I said, and the circle goes round and round. Also just a clarification, yes its called Swoop, both of them are https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop_(soulbeast) and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop .

    In the hopes of maybe not perpetuating this circle I'll end it with what my point is...

    With everything you call attention to on Warrior, with your comments (and I'll paraphrase since I've done enough direct quoting already) on how it has "too many gap closers" and "it has so many damaging skills that hit hard it makes it hard to justify dodging only what some might deem the most important", I find it silly that this is even something that would be complained about when comparing Warrior to many of the other classes one deals with in sPvP/WvW, just the general PvP environment. This is what you have an issue with? Warrior has "too much damage now"? Compared to what? Compared to Holo damage? Compared to Soulbeast damage? Compared to Mirage damage? Compared to Deadeye damage? Core Guardian damage?

    To further that, you talk about Warriors having too many gap closers. Again, compared to what? Compared to Soulbeasts ability to kite with one 1200 range skill, or if they run with gs they get the Merged Swoop which is 1200 and the GS 3 Swoop which is 1000. Compared to Thief gap closers and kiting tools shortbow 5, Shadowstep, Infiltrator's Strike, Infiltrator's Signet, Roll for Initiative, Shadow Strike, Heartseeker, Vault (Daredevil), Bound (Daredevil Trait dodge), Dash dodge (Daredevil trait). Compared to Mesmer teleports like Staff 2, Blink, Jaunt, Phantasmal Sword, I think a couple others I'm forgetting. Just those as some examples.

    Not that I'd argue with them buffing Warrior healing, but your reasoning for it doesn't make sense. Just what are you measuring this "too much" or "starting to get too much" against exactly? If anything...Conquest needs to be reworked. (Oooof you're not gonna like that statement)

  • @RedShark.9548 said:
    Core warrior is balanced, can be countered and ppl need to not hit into shieldblock all day long

    But arcane thievery the might. Yum

  • Apolo.5942Apolo.5942 Member ✭✭✭

    Say Wut? Warrior Damage is atrociously LOW, all melee with next no gap closers which makes it ridiculous easy to kite and its sustain is laughable, the days of signet keeping up with the damage flying around are long gone.

    Honestly i dont know what game you are playing.

    Conditions need to be normalized:
    1- SINGLE PLAYER conditions stack on DURATION.
    2- MULTIPLE PLAYERS conditions stack on INTENSITY.
    3- REBALANCE condition duration, damage and application.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why the kitten does warrior suddenly need nerfs?

    Didn’t we just get nerfed?

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭

    Of all classes you have issues with warrior. Well, beyond a joke. It is well within limits and needs no nerfs. Says a ranger main!

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    Of all classes you have issues with warrior. Well, beyond a joke. It is well within limits and needs no nerfs. Says a ranger main!

    I very much agree with this.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Imperadordf.2687Imperadordf.2687 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Apolo.5942 said:
    Warrior Damage is atrociously LOW

    nice meme

    all melee with next no gap closers which makes it ridiculous easy to kite

    nicer meme

  • TheDevice.2751TheDevice.2751 Member ✭✭✭

    ANET loves warriors, they love mesmers, they love engineers and they love guardians.

    This is why these four classes rotate as having the highest win%. Mesmers generally take 1st or 2nd in highest win%. Facts.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    Warr is okay, imo. Might Makes Right could have the heal reduced by 33 (iirc its 133 heal per might, so it would go from a 399 heal/sec with tether up to 300).

    The dodge roll trait could also use a nerf - basically bounding Dodger that is UNBLOCKABLE and grants might (and this heal and more endurance) as the first trait. Oof. Some combination of reducing the damage it does, pairing down the might it gives (its 1 per target hit - maybe a 3 person cap?), or removing the unblockable part.

    Gs might gen trait buff wasn't needed. Either revert or, preferably, just remove the part that doubles it on gs? Not sure how that would impact pve though.

    And then, only if absolutely necessary (I dont think it will), make tether give reduced might stacks per pulse - 3->2. Only after seeing the results of other changes, though. Tether relies on FC, which adds additionalcounter play, and iirc you can eithergive the warr might, or break the tether (stab?).

    And then un-gut Full Counter's damage. Pretty please.

    Something also needs to be done about rampage, but I'm not sure what. It CAN be easily countered via blinds, but the blinds can be negated by using HS right before...but the res can be ripped off, so...I'm at a bit of a loss. Maybe just a small CD increase, either on the skill itself or the transformed skills.

    Of course, only do the above alongside pairing down the other classes some as well. Otherwise buff FC more, obv.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2019

    Core warrior is fine. My only complaint about it is Rampage, which seems to be a crutch for many warrior players.

    @TheDevice.2751 said:
    ANET loves warriors, they love mesmers, they love engineers and they love guardians.

    This is why these four classes rotate as having the highest win%. Mesmers generally take 1st or 2nd in highest win%. Facts.

    lol @ you thinking they love engineers. Engineers didn't see "love" until holosmith with PoF. Scrapper has been one continuous disappointment (forever disappointing in PvE, was the only viable build for high level play for engineers during HoT), and they've struggled with what to do with core engineer for a very long time.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think they should give guardian type of teleports to warriors...then lower their passive sustain somehow...I doubt the current complainers would like to deal with warrior in that case anyway so.....they can be easily kited by ranged/teleport classes like ranger/thief/mesmer/revenants and some exceptions like engineer, any less sustain and warrior would lose easily even against the trash class of gw2 : elementalist

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

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