how about core weapon skills that summon minions

Fleshreaver will be nice because i dont think that you can summon that any more or just summon the normal jagged horror or any minions

Interesting idea, but I doubt that they would introduce something like that for the core necromancer. Best bet would probably be a new elite spec with minions summon on the new elite spec weapon.

I could imagine something like this on a shield, for example.Shield 5: Summon Shambling Horror (this was a minion type in the first GW game, further information: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Animate_Shambling_Horror)Ground Targeted. Summons a Shambling Horror at the targeted area, taunting nearby enemies. If the Shambling Horror dies, it is replaced by 3 Jagged Horrors.

As long as the Shambling Horror is alive, you can command it another skill.Demonic FleshThe Shambling Horror is granting Aegis to surrounding allies.

OK, that's a cool concept. Sort of like how Mesmer Scepter summons illusions. I could go for a weapon that does this. Not sure any current weapon would be appropriate. I would definitely think that's a potential E spec weapon ability.

@Obtena.7952 said:OK, that's a cool concept. Sort of like how Mesmer Scepter summons illusions. I could go for a weapon that does this. Not sure any current weapon would be appropriate. I would definitely think that's a potential E spec weapon ability.

I think you hit the issue here. Mesmers got it and they woild have to work like clones, dying when the target died and with a limit.So i doubt that we will get it, and do we really need it?Especially since we got utilities and elites to fill this, even a teait now.But one could dream.

@"Kodama.6453" said:Interesting idea, but I doubt that they would introduce something like that for the core necromancer. Best bet would probably be a new elite spec with minions summon on the new elite spec weapon.

I could imagine something like this on a shield, for example.Shield 5: Summon Shambling Horror (this was a minion type in the first GW game, further information: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Animate_Shambling_Horror)Ground Targeted. Summons a Shambling Horror at the targeted area, taunting nearby enemies. If the Shambling Horror dies, it is replaced by 3 Jagged Horrors.

As long as the Shambling Horror is alive, you can command it another skill.Demonic FleshThe Shambling Horror is granting Aegis to surrounding allies.

This would go well with my idea of removing a lot of minion skills/traits from core and death magic and making an ES for Minion Masters. For that see https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/64323/suggestion-a-fix-for-minion-master-and-death-magic#latest

I could more likely see a trait for a new weapon doing this instead of it being on the weapon itself. Like if the MM ES got a bow then a trait that recharges bows 20% faster and summons a minon on bow skill 2.

Oh! Oh! Oh! Squeals. Staff, please!

Sorry, had to get it out of my system. Anyway, I could see it as an e-spec with an mainhand or two-handed weapon. The minion-generating skills could function similar to the Death Nova trait.

weapon skills that summon minionsDear ANet:

Please don't!

Just delete mesmer, ranger and the death magic traitline from the game. That would be a good start.

Could a summoning-type weapon skill not be horrifyingly slow and easy to avoid?

@KrHome.1920 said:

weapon skills that summon minionsDear ANet:

If you don't like them, don't play them.

Better yet: ArenaNet, please delete all other classes but Mesmer, Ranger, And Necromancer.

@Phoenix the One.4071 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:OK, that's a cool concept. Sort of like how Mesmer Scepter summons illusions. I could go for a weapon that does this. Not sure any current weapon would be appropriate. I would definitely think that's a potential E spec weapon ability.

Honestly, I like the concept ... I feel that for the idea to work, the concept would have to get a more design-based proposal. It's not really about need either. Especs are just flavours ... if this was part of an espec, it would just be a flavour as well. I think the hard part is selling this as a 'new' way to play necro, since we already have minions; as much as I like the idea, I think it would be the fact that we have minions as hotbar skills that kills it.

Why is everyone so fixated on super bad ai-minions to play with?

They hold you infight when you don't want them toThey tank enemies you don't want them to tankThey are stupid as f...Gameplay is hell a lot annoying with minions.

I really hope they completely remove necro minions and give him actually good utilities instead.Not going to happen anyways

@Nimon.7840 said:Why is everyone so fixated on super bad ai-minions to play with?

They hold you infight when you don't want them toThey tank enemies you don't want them to tankThey are stupid as f...Gameplay is hell a lot annoying with minions.

I really hope they completely remove necro minions and give him actually good utilities instead.Not going to happen anyways

Depends what the minions do. I could care less if it's super bad AI if it just runs to the target and explodes. No one is proposing anything specific here, and complaining about bad AI on minions is a specific complaint about the minions we have now, not ones that could be created from a weapon skill. no reason to dismiss the idea because of that ... unless you got other motives you aren't mentioning. Minions aren't being removed ever; a significant playerbase uses them. If you wish for anything, at least it should be plausible.

I would actually rather see more weapon skills that apply marks. Considering Marks are categorized as their own unique type of skill much like guardian symbols and Mesmer clones or phantoms .

"Clone" Skills are scattered throughout all weapons on mesmer along with "Phantom skills""Symbols" are scattered throughout all weapons options of guardian.

Necromancer "Marks" on the other hand are only on staff and not on any other weapons or utilities. Its almost like Marks were the first type of unique skills to be made in the game and the developers got smarter about spreading similar things out across other weapons on other classes rather than leaving 1 weapon with all of them.

How no one has noticed and not brought this up is beyond me.

How no one has noticed and not brought this up is beyond me.I would like the idea. I do already like the mark of blood on dodge we already have (even though I would prefer an "apply 5s of regeneration on dodging" minor trait without an ICD instead).

But ANet would have to introduce a mark cap per player of maybe 5 marks. Otherwise it's too strong as an area denial mechanic.

Soul Marks would also need a rework as it might become too strong.

@"ZDragon.3046" said:I would actually rather see more weapon skills that apply marks. Considering Marks are categorized as their own unique type of skill much like guardian symbols and Mesmer clones or phantoms .

"Clone" Skills are scattered throughout all weapons on mesmer along with "Phantom skills""Symbols" are scattered throughout all weapons options of guardian.

Necromancer "Marks" on the other hand are only on staff and not on any other weapons or utilities. Its almost like Marks were the first type of unique skills to be made in the game and the developers got smarter about spreading similar things out across other weapons on other classes rather than leaving 1 weapon with all of them.

How no one has noticed and not brought this up is beyond me.

Lich form used to have "marks" which is why there is a "marks" trait. It sure is now pretty irrelevant in the context of the current game though.

Anyway, grasping dead, enfeebling blood or the "old" unholy feast could have been transformed into marks if it was a concern. (Even putrid explosion could very well be transformed into a mark)

The same way they could transform a few of the staff marks into regular skill and it would most likely benefit the weapon skillset (for example, putrid mark and reaper's mark would be good candidates for self centered aoe effect, while chillblain don't really need to be an aoe skill).

@Nimon.7840 said:Why is everyone so fixated on super bad ai-minions to play with?

They hold you infight when you don't want them toThey tank enemies you don't want them to tankThey are stupid as f...Gameplay is hell a lot annoying with minions.

I really hope they completely remove necro minions and give him actually good utilities instead.Not going to happen anyways

People like minions and there are a lot of folks who want to get the old GW 1 minion master going again.

@Dace.8173 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Why is everyone so fixated on super bad ai-minions to play with?

They hold you infight when you don't want them toThey tank enemies you don't want them to tankThey are stupid as f...Gameplay is hell a lot annoying with minions.

I really hope they completely remove necro minions and give him actually good utilities instead.Not going to happen anyways

It doesn't change the fact that the game isn't really "minion-friendly" and that "minion builds" are seen as "skill-less builds useless in competitive modes". ANet will avoid to raise minions to a level that can be threatening to anyone. And if it's not threatening in any way, "the folks that want the old gw1 minion master" will eternaly be unsatisfied.

ANet's balance of the necromancer's minions reached a state where minions are in the spot they want them to be (no matter how awful this spot is). Adding weapon skills that summon minions in the equation is bound to break this "balance state" and lead to nerfs to the current traits and skills related to minions.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Why is everyone so fixated on super bad ai-minions to play with?

They hold you infight when you don't want them toThey tank enemies you don't want them to tankThey are stupid as f...Gameplay is hell a lot annoying with minions.

I really hope they completely remove necro minions and give him actually good utilities instead.Not going to happen anyways

i love to see jagged horror function change to some thing like instead of the 25 second life duration it will be 5 second life duration and after 5 second the jagged horror will enter a abomination egg like formation and do a delayed explosion (1 second delay explosion for counter play in PvP) on a 240 radius and that is a power damage or traited to do condi damage the idea is to help weapons like focus and warhorn do more damage in PvE without affecting PvP because if you cleave the jagged horror before their life duration ends they wont enter the abomination egg like formation and they wont do any damage and the idea is to draw some pressure from the necromancer in PvP because he dont have block and etc via jagged horrorand in this way the AI wont be a problemthe other minions AI is just fine in the moment

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Why is everyone so fixated on super bad ai-minions to play with?

They hold you infight when you don't want them toThey tank enemies you don't want them to tankThey are stupid as f...Gameplay is hell a lot annoying with minions.

I really hope they completely remove necro minions and give him actually good utilities instead.Not going to happen anyways

I don't see how you can possibly conclude this at all. Without a proposed design, that's pure speculation.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Why is everyone so fixated on super bad ai-minions to play with?

They hold you infight when you don't want them toThey tank enemies you don't want them to tankThey are stupid as f...Gameplay is hell a lot annoying with minions.

I really hope they completely remove necro minions and give him actually good utilities instead.Not going to happen anyways

Well, I'm not saying that it's a good idea. Actually not passing judgment on the idea in general. I'm of the opinion that the old builds from GW1 should just be left in the past anyway. I feel trying to get that feel back, those old professions and builds, does more harm to the game than good. I do wish the AIs were better as I'd really love to see a Golemancer Elite for Engineer.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:It doesn't change the fact that the game isn't really "minion-friendly" and that "minion builds" are seen as "skill-less builds useless in competitive modes". ANet will avoid to raise minions to a level that can be threatening to anyone. And if it's not threatening in any way, "the folks that want the old gw1 minion master" will eternaly be unsatisfied.

ANet's balance of the necromancer's minions reached a state where minions are in the spot they want them to be (no matter how awful this spot is). Adding weapon skills that summon minions in the equation is bound to break this "balance state" and lead to nerfs to the current traits and skills related to minions.

How I conclude this? But the same way that you do. I'm looking back at the game and how it evolved around the years as well as the general impact of minions in the game and how ANet adressed it.

@Dace.8173 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Why is everyone so fixated on super bad ai-minions to play with?

They hold you infight when you don't want them toThey tank enemies you don't want them to tankThey are stupid as f...Gameplay is hell a lot annoying with minions.

I really hope they completely remove necro minions and give him actually good utilities instead.Not going to happen anyways

The last thing engineer needs is another elite spec focused on an AI minion type, tbh.We already have turrets and gyros, that's enough.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:It doesn't change the fact that the game isn't really "minion-friendly" and that "minion builds" are seen as "skill-less builds useless in competitive modes". ANet will avoid to raise minions to a level that can be threatening to anyone. And if it's not threatening in any way, "the folks that want the old gw1 minion master" will eternaly be unsatisfied.

ANet's balance of the necromancer's minions reached a state where minions are in the spot they want them to be (no matter how awful this spot is). Adding weapon skills that summon minions in the equation is bound to break this "balance state" and lead to nerfs to the current traits and skills related to minions.

I still don't see that possible reality as a reason for Anet to not do something; you can imagine all kinds of scenarios and claim that's what Anet would do. If the introduction leads to changes to other areas of the game, I don't see why that would be bad. I can sit here and claim that they get it right off the bat and they don't need changes.

No thanks. The game needs less AI, not more.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@"Nimon.7840" said:Why is everyone so fixated on super bad ai-minions to play with?

They hold you infight when you don't want them toThey tank enemies you don't want them to tankThey are stupid as f...Gameplay is hell a lot annoying with minions.

I really hope they completely remove necro minions and give him actually good utilities instead.Not going to happen anyways

If the AIs were good I don't think it would be bad. The concept of Engineer pretty much invites lots of AI toys as you build a bunch of stuff to help you out, whether they be turrets, gyros, or golems. If AIs were good, and thus turrets and gyros weren't so bad, then adding another AI based spec wouldn't be that bad. I'm actually amazed that Engineer wasn't already given a golem to summon in Core. It should have been an elite skill like Flesh Golem for Necromancer. Oh well.

Overall though, the AI should be updated and fixed not just so I can have my Golemancer Elite. It would help out Rangers a lot (though I'm not sure they need it) and it would be a big boon for Necromancers. Minions, gyros, turrets, and pets should all be as useful as Mesmer clones are. It would fix a lot of issues.