Marked needs equality and a buff — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Marked needs equality and a buff

sostronk.8167sostronk.8167 Member ✭✭✭

Currently marked is discriminatory against classes that rely on stealth. It should be buffed to provide equality. Make it remove vitality, toughness, healing power, +% health, -% damage stats that are used on all classes for survivability. This way it won't discriminate against certain builds in favor of other builds.

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Comments

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There is no class that relies on stealth.

  • syszery.1592syszery.1592 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    @sostronk.8167 said:
    Currently marked is discriminatory against classes that rely on stealth. It should be buffed to provide equality. Make it remove vitality, toughness, healing power, +% health, -% damage stats that are used on all classes for survivability. This way it won't discriminate against certain builds in favor of other builds.

    And how would that not punish classes with more excess to stealth even more? I mean cutting their ability to stealth is one thing (and pretty annoying if your defense relies on that) but on top lowering hp and so on would be even worse...

  • Or... just delete Marked from the game, back to the old days of actually scouting objectives and group movement instead of this lazy sentry/objective balloon nonsense which discourages attackers. We already have sword map-markers in place.

    Follow it up by giving a proper balance pass to "Classes that rely on stealth" who currently feel impacted by Marked. So primarily Thieves with builds other than S/D. And by balance i don't mean take stealth duration away and give nothing back. Their forum section would riot for days, days i tell you! No ridiculously long stealth up-times, compensated by something else. (I haven't mained thief in years so thief players have good suggestions i assume.)

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  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well this is rather hyperbolic. Enemy marked isn't everywhere, so stealth is still viable. Stop fighting around balloons maybe?

    D:

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  • @sostronk.8167 said:
    Currently marked is discriminatory against classes that rely on stealth. It should be buffed to provide equality. Make it remove vitality, toughness, healing power, +% health, -% damage stats that are used on all classes for survivability. This way it won't discriminate against certain builds in favor of other builds.

    I'm fully with U that the marked mechanic is nothing more than a lazy way from anet to go against a stupid way of implemented playstyle, perma stealth DE. Your way of a solution is maybe not the best but it doesnt matter. In this forum u cant start this discussion. 95% of the wvw players are just frustrated that they got outplayed but classes like thief, they are to bad and not skilled enough to improve.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @sostronk.8167 said:
    Currently marked is discriminatory against classes that rely on stealth. It should be buffed to provide equality. Make it remove vitality, toughness, healing power, +% health, -% damage stats that are used on all classes for survivability. This way it won't discriminate against certain builds in favor of other builds.

    I'm fully with U that the marked mechanic is nothing more than a lazy way from anet to go against a stupid way of implemented playstyle, perma stealth DE. Your way of a solution is maybe not the best but it doesnt matter. In this forum u cant start this discussion. 95% of the wvw players are just frustrated that they got outplayed but classes like thief, they are to bad and not skilled enough to improve.

    I thought the first post was a mess, but this one takes the cake.

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

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  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭

    @WraithOfStealth.1624 said:
    Or... just delete Marked from the game, back to the old days of actually scouting objectives and group movement instead of this lazy sentry/objective balloon nonsense which discourages attackers. We already have sword map-markers in place.

    Follow it up by giving a proper balance pass to "Classes that rely on stealth" who currently feel impacted by Marked. So primarily Thieves with builds other than S/D. And by balance i don't mean take stealth duration away and give nothing back. Their forum section would riot for days, days i tell you! No ridiculously long stealth up-times, compensated by something else. (I haven't mained thief in years so thief players have good suggestions i assume.)

    Obelix,youre as wise as you are pretty.

  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    For true equality all classes should have access to all mechanics to the same degree. We will all be ONE class. But im pretty sure someone will find something to complain about.

    sarcasm off.

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    The video below highlights why Marked was added. Just before I began recording he tried to attack me but when I evaded/countered his attempts, he went full defensive and didn't try again. Without a Target Painter to force Reveal on him, there wasn't anything I could do other than keep my eyes peeled for subtle tells of his location. Around 1:48 I notice someone had died on the first floor. I wasn't sure if he had been killed from the top floor or if the DE had hopped down to the first floor so I was still looking upwards when I dropped down.

    Before I get any complaints about gameplay or lectures on how to properly kill a DE, I'm not looking for advice. I'm only sharing this to show how poorly designed perma-stealth Deadeye is and why it's the reason Marked was reworked.

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  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    Stealth is so poorly implemented in GW2. Ive played other games that are terrible games but even they had the brain power and common sense to implement stealth that wasnt almost permanent and didn't require this "marked" mechanic to reveal stealth classes. They simply made it so that you were slower while stealthed and you could never ever be permanently stealthed.

    I think this current marked mechanic is bad but if thats the only thing ANET is going to do i still prefer this than perma stealthed DE.

    And please don't say L2P, i have a fully geared DE that i played around with in WvW for a day and was bored out of my skull how easy it was to kill and how easy it was to escape if i found someone i couldnt kill. My Kill/Death ratio was off the charts. (this was before the patch with the Marked update of course)

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭

    Stealth is discriminatory against classes that don't have much access to reveal. Mobility is also discriminatory against classes who can't chase well.

    Therefore classes that have access to high amounts of stealth and mobility need to be nerfed.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    @Optimator.3589 said:
    Yes, Anet needs to stop discriminating and give stealth to all the classes. Then we can all be equally affected by marked.

    yes please, lets all just engage and disengage whenever we feel like it, and since we are all stealthed we wont even see each other and nobody gets hurt, then only the afk's will get hit by all we've got. since marked is removed then (because now we are all equall, we wont need that kitten anymore), just all stay in freshly capped big objectives and flip it over and over again because nobody can see kitten

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    The video below highlights why Marked was added. Just before I began recording he tried to attack me but when I evaded/countered his attempts, he went full defensive and didn't try again. Without a Target Painter to force Reveal on him, there wasn't anything I could do other than keep my eyes peeled for subtle tells of his location. Around 1:48 I notice someone had died on the first floor. I wasn't sure if he had been killed from the top floor or if the DE had hopped down to the first floor so I was still looking upwards when I dropped down.

    Before I get any complaints about gameplay or lectures on how to properly kill a DE, I'm not looking for advice. I'm only sharing this to show how poorly designed perma-stealth Deadeye is and why it's the reason Marked was reworked.

    quallity gameplay right there bro, sure was fun to waste your time like that, since winning doesnt even mean anything anymore i always just stopped bothering and left the objective. feels good to watch him die tho, wp

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    quallity gameplay right there bro, sure was fun to waste your time like that, since winning doesnt even mean anything anymore i always just stopped bothering and left the objective. feels good to watch him die tho, wp

    This is why I often write a "disclaimer" type sentence at the end of certain topics. Because some people have a hard time reading.

    I'm only sharing this to show how poorly designed perma-stealth Deadeye is and why it's the reason Marked was reworked.

    I literally pursued this Deadeye and began recording specifically so I had an example to share if ever it were relevant to a conversation.

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  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    quallity gameplay right there bro, sure was fun to waste your time like that, since winning doesnt even mean anything anymore i always just stopped bothering and left the objective. feels good to watch him die tho, wp

    This is why I often write a "disclaimer" type sentence at the end of certain topics. Because some people have a hard time reading.

    I'm only sharing this to show how poorly designed perma-stealth Deadeye is and why it's the reason Marked was reworked.

    I literally pursued this Deadeye and began recording specifically so I had an example to share if ever it were relevant to a conversation.

    not sure how long you were already in there but 5 min is pretty quick end to it and you didnt really try hard to find him,compared to what i did see people trying against me. ( not critique about you, more about that deadeye ;) )
    i got to agree such a situation is and was stupid for both the deadeye and the ones looking.
    as deadeye i can solo every lord, but i cannot do so or cannot flip it when i also need to fight a larger group of players. so when i am in a tower or keep that is not mine, going out of it would be throwing away that opportunity. but i might also not be able to fight the group looking for me or i knew killing them would result in a zerg here before i am done with the lord. so from my view i often felt it was the correct thing to just wait. especially if it was an upgradeded keep that my zerg just wiped inside. and every minute i waited would have been wasted if i gave up and leave. from the persepective of the defenders however, they usually do not want to leave a tower/keep with someone inside that might flip it. they sometimes leave just 1 person behind, then i kill that person and they all come back in no time to then wait with more people. after all inside that keep it was mostly still me picking the fight, so for a loner to kill me there i would need to make a fatal mistake.
    so the situation is mostly: 1 deadeye vs X opponents inside a keep/tower. who ever leaves will lose it, but there is also no fight over it as it doesnt make sense to fight for the deadeye and the opponents cannot initiate a fight. that is a bad situation for both sides. i certainly felt bad every time i left a tower/keep, thinking that i might have flipped it if i just had been more patient.
    IMO however the new marked is just a bad bandaid. because for it to change something i still have to get marked to begin with and it affects much more than just the permastealther inside your tower/keep.
    now here is an example of what could have been done instead that would have a greater effect on the deadeye inside keep, yet wouldnt affect too much combat outside of it.
    first of all i want a new t2 tactic for tower/keep to be put instead of banners:

    Asuran Security Cleanup.
    spawns an asuran console (plenty of models from PvE ready to use) with X hp, that will mark any opponent within the object (within tower, only 'inner' of keeps) and will teleport them out of it after 1,5 minutes if the console is still up.
    30min cooldown.

    if your inside with a group/zerg just destroy the console. yet that thief would need to try destroying it wich means you can just kill him trying or prevent him from doing so forcing him out.

    now you may also spawn such a console on keep/tower flip and there you go no more deadeyes in your keep.
    then you can revert the mark affecting stealth and reduce passive marks overall on the map:

    • killing a sentry rermoves the mark applied by it
    • watchtower should just be replaced, maybe it just reduces the number of targets to trigger a battlemark.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    quallity gameplay right there bro, sure was fun to waste your time like that, since winning doesnt even mean anything anymore i always just stopped bothering and left the objective. feels good to watch him die tho, wp

    This is why I often write a "disclaimer" type sentence at the end of certain topics. Because some people have a hard time reading.

    I'm only sharing this to show how poorly designed perma-stealth Deadeye is and why it's the reason Marked was reworked.

    I literally pursued this Deadeye and began recording specifically so I had an example to share if ever it were relevant to a conversation.

    oh i didnt mean it in any ways badly towards you, if i got your message right now ? i dont know, sarcasm is hard to read often times.
    anyways the "quallity gameplay" remark was sarcasm from my side towards the deadeye gameplay which is just kitten, and should absolutely NOT be possible in such a game. And the fact that you literally have to waste time in there to not let him flip anything is just not right aswell.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    I have no words for stuff like this. Can't you cry alone in your corner?

    ...Careful
    if to many of them gather in a corner they will cause a rebellion.

    Much better to separate them by districts.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Shadowcat.2680Shadowcat.2680 Member ✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    The video below highlights why Marked was added. Just before I began recording he tried to attack me but when I evaded/countered his attempts, he went full defensive and didn't try again. Without a Target Painter to force Reveal on him, there wasn't anything I could do other than keep my eyes peeled for subtle tells of his location. Around 1:48 I notice someone had died on the first floor. I wasn't sure if he had been killed from the top floor or if the DE had hopped down to the first floor so I was still looking upwards when I dropped down.

    Before I get any complaints about gameplay or lectures on how to properly kill a DE, I'm not looking for advice. I'm only sharing this to show how poorly designed perma-stealth Deadeye is and why it's the reason Marked was reworked.

    Target painter is fine as a trap, but the thrown version should not exist. Or, at the very least, it should be possible to block or evade it.

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    For clarity, I was not chasing this DE because I was afraid he'd flip SMC. Like I'd said in another response here, I was doing it strictly so I had a video example on hand.

    However, I do also often try to kill players that are targeting zerglings. People who hang out between spawn waypoints and keeps or hide inside objectives, etc. I feel obligated to protect people who can't protect themselves very well. The only time I don't bother trying is when someone is playing something a like full Nomad run-a-way build.

    Also I honestly don't find it a huge issue if someone manages to hide inside an objective after it's flipped and later capture it by themselves. If there's any indication someone is hiding, that's on the players to find that person. The only time I see it as a problem is when it takes a zerg to find them, which really only happens in Red BL towers or SMC because there's so much space for high stealth uptime players to kite around. So I'm glad that Marked was added to keeps after they've been flipped - it prevents this from happening. So as of right now, if you can hide in an objective and take it after it was just flipped, IMO that isn't broken/bad.

    To be totally honest, the only time I like fighting Deadeyes is when I'm hunting them. I find it exciting trying to spot the subtle tells of the DE's location and trying to get in their heads to figure out where they might be moving next. I think most of the ones who just roll around stealthed as often as possible tapping objectives must hate me though because I'll chase them for hours if I'm having fun doing it, lol.

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    oh i didnt mean it in any ways badly towards you, if i got your message right now ? i dont know, sarcasm is hard to read often times.
    anyways the "quallity gameplay" remark was sarcasm from my side towards the deadeye gameplay which is just kitten, and should absolutely NOT be possible in such a game. And the fact that you literally have to waste time in there to not let him flip anything is just not right aswell.

    Ah, my bad. I did think you were being sarcastic so I felt it was necessary to explain myself in case I hadn't been clear in the original comment. Thanks for clarifying (:

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  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    For clarity, I was not chasing this DE because I was afraid he'd flip SMC. Like I'd said in another response here, I was doing it strictly so I had a video example on hand.

    However, I do also often try to kill players that are targeting zerglings. People who hang out between spawn waypoints and keeps or hide inside objectives, etc. I feel obligated to protect people who can't protect themselves very well. The only time I don't bother trying is when someone is playing something a like full Nomad run-a-way build.

    hmm well i actually do keep a nomad set with me tho i rarely use it these days, it was for when there is a way too big group trying to get me out or ressing mesmers before the trap change.

    Also I honestly don't find it a huge issue if someone manages to hide inside an objective after it's flipped and later capture it by themselves. If there's any indication someone is hiding, that's on the players to find that person. The only time I see it as a problem is when it takes a zerg to find them, which really only happens in Red BL towers or SMC because there's so much space for high stealth uptime players to kite around. So I'm glad that Marked was added to keeps after they've been flipped - it prevents this from happening. So as of right now, if you can hide in an objective and take it after it was just flipped, IMO that isn't broken/bad.

    SMC lord takes too long and has too much traffic going on at most times to solo it, map kind of has to be dead for that. i also never really had an issue with stealth flipping and for me the old mark on capture was enough to know that i need to gank someone later. but i also played hide and seek for hours, while not all my opponents enjoyed it. maybe there would have needed to be a better ingame notification if the lord is in combat. not across all the map, but while inside the structure. in the time i need to kill the lord in fire keep for example, many wont be able to check outer even if they are already inside. with the mark that wont happen on flip in keeps anymore(fire keep is an exception because you basically dont get marked in most of inner) , but i can still go inside with my zerg, see them wipe and flip it later.

    To be totally honest, the only time I like fighting Deadeyes is when I'm hunting them. I find it exciting trying to spot the subtle tells of the DE's location and trying to get in their heads to figure out where they might be moving next. I think most of the ones who just roll around stealthed as often as possible tapping objectives must hate me though because I'll chase them for hours if I'm having fun doing it, lol.

    i like to fight other stealth (ab)using thieves aswell, much more than evade spamming ones, but there is also plenty of people who would prefer to see 'evaded' all day on their screen instead. oh and i really like if someone actually tries to hunt me, tries to bait me, suprise me etc. but sadly your over in NA :(

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭

    Thief elite removes reveal. Tell me why marked exists again?

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2019

    @Ruufio.1496 said:
    Thief elite removes reveal. Tell me why marked exists again?

    partly because of exactly that i assume? elite removes revealed but not marked.
    tho mark as such was here way before the elite.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • @Ruufio.1496 said:
    Thief elite removes reveal. Tell me why marked exists again?

    Marked "pulses" Reveal. Every 2 seconds it will force Reveal so even if you remove it, it will happen again shortly after.

    There's enough time for Thieves to use their Stealth attacks like Backstab but for Thief and any other class with Stealth access, the pulsing Reveal does not allow people to camp in Stealth. Which is a good thing, IMO.

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  • sostronk.8167sostronk.8167 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ruufio.1496 said:
    Thief elite removes reveal. Tell me why marked exists again?

    Because you can only remove revealed twice and in some areas of some WvW maps, particularly Red BL, you can end up with over 1 minute of marked making certain areas no-go zones...like what immigrants have done in Sweden.

    _We must secure the existence of our Quaggans and a future for Quaggan children. _

  • sostronk.8167sostronk.8167 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Did....did someone just claim "discriminatory" and "equality" in a game mechanic? Did someone just seriously do that?

    Happy 2019 everyone

    You just assumed I am a person. How do you know I don't identify as an attack helicopter?

    _We must secure the existence of our Quaggans and a future for Quaggan children. _

  • sostronk.8167sostronk.8167 Member ✭✭✭

    Don't forget that the marked change effects build diversity and diversity is our greatest strength.

    _We must secure the existence of our Quaggans and a future for Quaggan children. _

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 4, 2019

    Wait, but all classes need vitality and stuff.

    I think to truly make things equal, all classes need stealth.

    But in all seriousness, marked should wear off if you get out of range.

  • alchemyst.2165alchemyst.2165 Member ✭✭
    edited January 4, 2019

    If they really want to keep Marked in the game, they should

    A: Make it so that it takes longer to reveal (It says "long periods of stealth" but 2 seconds? Come on.) Possibly 5 or 6 seconds?
    B. Make it so that if you go out of range, it wears off. Being locked out of an entire mechanic for 30 seconds simply because you passed somewhat near a sentry that you may not have even been going for is ridiculous.
    C. Have the reveal be much shorter, or simply have it take you out of stealth
    D. All/some of the above

    The current marked makes for frustrating gameplay situations where I'm forced out of a whole weaponset for long periods of time, and when I try to run, I get marked up again. It's just not fun to play WvW with it. I'm fine with some mechanics to counter permastealth, but this iteration of marked punishes you for even trying to use the mechanic in very small doses and can be pretty much inescapable in certain areas. It's actually punishing scouts for doing their jobs.

    Plenty of classes already have reveal mechanics, I don't see why this version of marked was necessary honestly. I have to treat large sections of the map as "out of bounds" because if I happen to get into an engagement near them, I'm locked out of a key class mechanic.

    And no, I don't play Deadeye. (Partially for this reason)

  • sostronk.8167sostronk.8167 Member ✭✭✭

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    Wait, but all classes need vitality and stuff.

    I think to truly make things equal, all classes need stealth.

    But in all seriousness, marked should wear off if you get out of range.

    With the state of tanky sustain builds in the game, you pretty much have to run full zerker with Scholar Runes and Assassins signet and Signet of Agility to kill them quicker than they are healing. Deadeye is extremely easy to play against. Just negate Deaths Judgement and you have negated over 50% of their burst. Deadeye can't afford vitality.

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