Thoughts - Post Season 14 - From Different Class Perspectives - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Thoughts - Post Season 14 - From Different Class Perspectives

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  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2019

    @Megametzler.5729

    I find that DE is broken in a very special kind of way. Some classes/builds possess all the mechanics they need to deal with the DE, such to the point that the DE can't really do anything to that player and must avoid it the entire match. Then other classes/builds possess none of the mechanics they need to deal with the DE at all. This leads to the DE completely avoiding bad match ups, and essentially following around and spawn camping the classes/builds that have no mechanics to deal with him. <- That right there is what pisses people off about DE and makes it feel questionable within the game's intra-class dynamic. I mean a player could still be winning his match, but still be getting pop killed by the DE that entire match because he's on a Scourge. That's a no fun kind of situation.

    I know a lot about this because last season "S14" I had duo'd all season with a great DE. What we would do is, I would play sort of "short stop" between home and mid, defend home as priority and poke at mid when advantageous, trying to draw 1v2 situations. Then what he would do is very specifically avoid anything dangerous and only target things that he knows he can nuke in 1-2s, that can't deal with him at all. It would often lead to situations where he had 2 players spawn camped, that could not leave their spawn without waiting for a regroup. This is because their class/build can't play around something that is perma stealthed that lands completely unpredictable 1-shot bursts, because their class/build has no mechanics to do so. Then when the enemy team figures out what's going on, the only way to bring their DE camped players back into rotation is to go send a player or two over there, that can actually deal with the DE. All leading to us forcing 3 to 4 players to hover near their spawn, so they can even get their players back into rotation. That's just actually kind of abusive mechanics on the DEs part, it's a bit too powerful rotationally, and very questionable as to if it is healthy for conquest dynamic.

    Now notice that I said DE was broken, I did not say it was OP. The problem here is that it counters its counters too hard, and it gets countered by its counters too hard. After dueling his DE multiple multiple times for the sake of practice during S14, I have a handful of suggestions to flatten out the parameters of DE's good match ups & bad match ups:

    • The things that currently have no mechanics at all in anyway to deal with DE, need new abilities tagged onto old abilities that are at least capable of revealing the DE for a couple seconds in some way. I had thought that in the case of Ele as example, they could have a passive reveal after using some skill "Next incoming attack reveals the attacker." It needs it.
    • Things that counter DE too hard all share 3 things in common: 1) Reveal, 2) High DPS Bursts, 3) Lots of CC. Honestly, DE needs a liiiittle bit more self sustain to be able to survive these kinds of bad situations.

    The point of the above suggestions is that if the DE had more trouble staying stealthed vs. the things that he counters so hard, and if he didn't immediately lose to other things when being blind sided by the first CC, it would diminish that effect where the DE is pigeonholed into following the same 1 or 2 players around an repeatedly killing them over and over. <- Again, THAT is what people are complaining about. It isn't that the DE is trolling you, it's just what he has to do to win the match. But yeah it feels bad in the flow of the game to incur the targeting of the good DE on the other team. If the DE had more reasons to avoid a Scourge as example, because it was no longer a free kill, and if he had more reasons to believe he had a chance to win while engaging some Warrior build, the DE could then freely play the map and focus rotationally instead of purely off "what is he able to kill the easiest and keep in respawn" <- That is what pisses people off, I just really want to point that out.

    Hope Arenanet reads this one, because this is a spot on explanation of what people mean when they say: "I dunno it just feels bad to play against."

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2019

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    (...)
    I know a lot about this because last season "S14" I had duo'd all season with a great DE. What we would do is, I would play sort of "short stop" between home and mid, defend home as priority and poke at mid when advantageous, trying to draw 1v2 situations. Then what he would do is very specifically avoid anything dangerous and only target things that he knows he can nuke in 1-2s, that can't deal with him at all. It would often lead to situations where he had 2 players spawn camped, that could not leave their spawn without waiting for a regroup. This is because their class/build can't play around something that is perma stealthed that lands completely unpredictable 1-shot bursts, because their class/build has no mechanics to do so. Then when the enemy team figures out what's going on, the only way to bring their DE camped players back into rotation is to go send a player or two over there, that can actually deal with the DE. All leading to us forcing 3 to 4 players to hover near their spawn, so they can even get their players back into rotation. That's just actually kind of abusive mechanics on the DEs part, it's a bit too powerful rotationally, and very questionable as to if it is healthy for conquest dynamic.
    (...)

    I never saw that except there was a huge skill imbalance between the players.

    However, I do agree with the things DE's counters need to have to be able to deal with it. Teleport, CC, AoE. I do not think reveal helps that much, but occasionally it doesn of course. It would also not help ele, because DE's ability to get rid of reveal is too easy and S/D eles do not have the means to kill him in that time. But I can always decap a point easily and sometimes cap it (if I exhaust myself and know I will not get +1ed). I just never can jump on him after he burned his bursts and can keep shooting without any risk.

    If they changed the doidge on rifle for stealth skill to, say, get stealth after weapon swap after dodging with rifle. So they would have their burst from stealth, but if they missed it, they could not reset it too easily and quickly but had to swap to their presumeably more defensive weapon set. Would that be a good solution or too weak? This way they could equip SB on second spot and use stealth+SB5 as a quick disengage tool without being able to immediately reburst.

    Would be curious for some DE player's (not too biased) opinion.

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