Damage multipliers should not stack multiplicatively.

Traits that increase outgoing damage should stack additively in order to eliminate the runaway damage numbers that certain builds have.

It s just pure luck. The rev had 25 stack might AND he had the 2 beasts boons AND you had 25 stack vuln.Next time don t chase off point I guess....

@Eugchriss.2046 said:It s just pure luck. The rev had 25 stack might AND he had the 2 beasts boons AND you had 25 stack vuln.

Maybe classes shouldn't be able to stack that much damage mods in 4s?

The rev had 0 boons at 0:15, with his first boons at 0:16. He had 20 might in addition to fury when he began Unrelenting Assault at 0:20. Worth pointing out that I only had 18 vuln when I was hit not 25, and that I was using a Paladin's Amulet so it's not like I didn't have any toughness.

Next time don t chase off point I guess....Why shouldn't I? I had the option of engaging the Mesmer or the Rev. My class can't do crap against a Mesmer, but I can do something against a rev. Moreover I knew from previous experience that the rev wasn't particularly good and that I could best him easily, a assumption that was quickly confirmed by I was besting him up until he pressed 3 on his keyboard and deleted me from existence.

The entire reason I made this thread is because I essentially got robbed because I had no way to expect that a skill that normally doesn't exceed 6k damage would hit me for 17k. This isn't a problem exclusive to revenant either. I've seen 12k Warrior GS3, 4k engi rifle autos, literally everything soulbeast does. The damage formulation in this game is fundamentally broken.

I respect the OP's opinion but my personal opinion is that huge numbers are fun and without them the game would be a lot more boring

While im not opposed to OPs idea, I think the problems with revs insane burst go much deeper than just the dmg modifiers or even the 25 might and perma fury (=which should be freaking nerfed as well).

Revs have been playing more or less the exact same build with the exact same playstyle since HoT release.And when I look at their go-to traitlines, I can't help but to see it as the rev-equivalent of a fire/air weaver.There is absolutely 0 defense in their trait choices.Anet has continuously buffed dwarf stance and the retribution traitline and yet people just dont use them.

So personally I see two ways to "fix" Rev.First: Nerf literally every "gain might"-, "gain fury"- and dmg modifier trait to a level that can be dealt with.ORSecond: Take the nerfbat to the Shiro-stance, specifically "Riposting Shadows" and "Phase Traversal".

Riposting Shadows is such an obnoxiously powerfull skill, that legit makes me wonder if the Devs have even realized how hard it carries the spec.Read its skilldescription. It's disgustingly stacked.

It clears movement impairing conditions, breaks stun, is a 600 range backwards evade, gives endurance and gives you fury and therefor 5 mighstacks if you traited correctly.All that on a ~6 second CD if you take the energy cost/regeneration ratio into account.And Phase Traversal is in a similar boat.

If RS would actually be nerfed to give "just" the 600 range backwards evade with movement impairing condition clear (and they can keep the stun break for all I care), maybe they would actually have to drop some damage and take proper defensive traits or stances.

If I cant take full PVE dps traits on my weaver without getting absolutely demolished, why can Revs do just that?

Is this a veiled nerf Revenant thread or change how damage modifiers work?

Because I honestly can't believe people are complaining about Revenant's but then again, this is the pvp forum and I don't expect much nowadays.

Haha ! Pwned by potato class!

if you think these are high numbers you should meet my deadeye! =)

they did change the damage reduction they might change the Damage multipliersbut i dont think any time time soonAnet is so slow with the PvPnext year may be

the game needs caps in its competitive modes. not just for damage either.

@Crinn.7864 said:

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:It s just pure luck. The rev had 25 stack might AND he had the 2 beasts boons AND you had 25 stack vuln.

Next time don t chase off point I guess....Why shouldn't I? I had the option of engaging the Mesmer or the Rev. My class can't do kitten against a Mesmer, but I can do something against a rev. Moreover I knew from previous experience that the rev wasn't particularly good and that I could best him easily, a assumption that was quickly confirmed by I was besting him up until he pressed 3 on his keyboard and deleted me from existence.

Hmm.. I've never ever seen an a engi rifle auto exceed 2500 with might and vuln in PvP. I think that's not a skill you would lump in a "scaling out of control" pile.

Source: Hipshot god

You died while having enough endurance to dodge. Rev damage is crazy but this was your fault. Had you placed weakness on him after dodging sword 3 you would've probably won.

And that was after using a CC while blinded.. misplaycity

AND you had enough time to heal but you chose to attack for no reason. L2P

@"Zenix.6198" said:While im not opposed to OPs idea, I think the problems with revs insane burst go much deeper than just the dmg modifiers or even the 25 might and perma fury (=which should be freaking nerfed as well).

Revs have been playing more or less the exact same build with the exact same playstyle since HoT release.And when I look at their go-to traitlines, I can't help but to see it as the rev-equivalent of a fire/air weaver.There is absolutely 0 defense in their trait choices.Anet has continuously buffed dwarf stance and the retribution traitline and yet people just dont use them.

So personally I see two ways to "fix" Rev.First: Nerf literally every "gain might"-, "gain fury"- and dmg modifier trait to a level that can be dealt with.ORSecond: Take the nerfbat to the Shiro-stance, specifically "Riposting Shadows" and "Phase Traversal".

Riposting Shadows is such an obnoxiously powerfull skill, that legit makes me wonder if the Devs have even realized how hard it carries the spec.Read its skilldescription. It's disgustingly stacked.

It clears movement impairing conditions, breaks stun, is a 600 range backwards evade, gives endurance and gives you fury and therefor 5 mighstacks if you traited correctly.All that on a ~6 second CD if you take the energy cost/regeneration ratio into account.And Phase Traversal is in a similar boat.

If RS would actually be nerfed to give "just" the 600 range backwards evade with movement impairing condition clear (and they can keep the stun break for all I care), maybe they would actually have to drop some damage and take proper defensive traits or stances.

If I cant take full PVE dps traits on my weaver without getting absolutely demolished, why can Revs do just that?

Someone needs to brush up on current PvP patch notes, Fury only gives 3 Might when traited...js and Risposting shadows works similar to other skills that do the similar things ie remove movement impairing conditions(the majority of movement skills remove movement impairing conditions FYI) and restoring a resource on top of evading and stun break... js

Some people need to get their information straight, before suggesting things.

I suggested this a couple months ago in general discussion, the thread was removed.

Damage modifiers should stack additively, not multiplicatively

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@"Zenix.6198" said:While im not opposed to OPs idea, I think the problems with revs insane burst go much deeper than just the dmg modifiers or even the 25 might and perma fury (=which should be freaking nerfed as well).

Revs have been playing more or less the exact same build with the exact same playstyle since HoT release.And when I look at their go-to traitlines, I can't help but to see it as the rev-equivalent of a fire/air weaver.There is absolutely 0 defense in their trait choices.Anet has continuously buffed dwarf stance and the retribution traitline and yet people just dont use them.

So personally I see two ways to "fix" Rev.First: Nerf literally every "gain might"-, "gain fury"- and dmg modifier trait to a level that can be dealt with.ORSecond: Take the nerfbat to the Shiro-stance, specifically "Riposting Shadows" and "Phase Traversal".

Riposting Shadows is such an obnoxiously powerfull skill, that legit makes me wonder if the Devs have even realized how hard it carries the spec.Read its skilldescription. It's disgustingly stacked.

It clears movement impairing conditions, breaks stun, is a 600 range backwards evade, gives endurance and gives you fury and therefor 5 mighstacks if you traited correctly.All that on a ~6 second CD if you take the energy cost/regeneration ratio into account.And Phase Traversal is in a similar boat.

If RS would actually be nerfed to give "just" the 600 range backwards evade with movement impairing condition clear (and they can keep the stun break for all I care), maybe they would actually have to drop some damage and take proper defensive traits or stances.

If I cant take full PVE dps traits on my weaver without getting absolutely demolished, why can Revs do just that?

First of all ....if you wanna play the "lololol get your facts straigth"-card, you should know that fury only gives 2 stacks of might in pvp.Secondly, Notoriety is still very much meta on revs and gives 3 mighstacks on shiro-skill use.

Edit: nvm, brain not function

@Zenix.6198 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:While im not opposed to OPs idea, I think the problems with revs insane burst go much deeper than just the dmg modifiers or even the 25 might and perma fury (=which should be freaking nerfed as well).

Revs have been playing more or less the exact same build with the exact same playstyle since HoT release.And when I look at their go-to traitlines, I can't help but to see it as the rev-equivalent of a fire/air weaver.There is absolutely 0 defense in their trait choices.Anet has continuously buffed dwarf stance and the retribution traitline and yet people just dont use them.

So personally I see two ways to "fix" Rev.First: Nerf literally every "gain might"-, "gain fury"- and dmg modifier trait to a level that can be dealt with.ORSecond: Take the nerfbat to the Shiro-stance, specifically "Riposting Shadows" and "Phase Traversal".

Riposting Shadows is such an obnoxiously powerfull skill, that legit makes me wonder if the Devs have even realized how hard it carries the spec.Read its skilldescription. It's disgustingly stacked.

It clears movement impairing conditions, breaks stun, is a 600 range backwards evade, gives endurance and gives you fury and therefor 5 mighstacks if you traited correctly.All that on a ~6 second CD if you take the energy cost/regeneration ratio into account.And Phase Traversal is in a similar boat.

If RS would actually be nerfed to give "just" the 600 range backwards evade with movement impairing condition clear (and they can keep the stun break for all I care), maybe they would actually have to drop some damage and take proper defensive traits or stances.

If I cant take full PVE dps traits on my weaver without getting absolutely demolished, why can Revs do just that?

Oh darn a typo on my phone, but yes I forgot to account for Notoriety so you got me there, but doesn’t change the fact that skill functions similar to almost every other movement but removing movement impairing effects and right now Weaver has one of the most defensive builds that can still burst people down quite effectively if the player knows what they are doing.

So let’s get this straight you are saying a skill that only when heavily traited to add 5 might, that costs almost half of the classes resource which can take away from being able to utilize other skills both weapon and utility, which no other class has to deal with.

And let’s not forget baseline the skill does nothing all that different compared to other similar skills, and can be locked out of even using it just by using other skills... it’s almost like players have to evaluate classes as a whole and not cherry pick things in a vacuum or something.... js

@"Zenix.6198" said:While im not opposed to OPs idea, I think the problems with revs insane burst go much deeper than just the dmg modifiers or even the 25 might and perma fury (=which should be freaking nerfed as well).

Revs have been playing more or less the exact same build with the exact same playstyle since HoT release.And when I look at their go-to traitlines, I can't help but to see it as the rev-equivalent of a fire/air weaver.There is absolutely 0 defense in their trait choices.Anet has continuously buffed dwarf stance and the retribution traitline and yet people just dont use them.

So personally I see two ways to "fix" Rev.First: Nerf literally every "gain might"-, "gain fury"- and dmg modifier trait to a level that can be dealt with.ORSecond: Take the nerfbat to the Shiro-stance, specifically "Riposting Shadows" and "Phase Traversal".

Riposting Shadows is such an obnoxiously powerfull skill, that legit makes me wonder if the Devs have even realized how hard it carries the spec.Read its skilldescription. It's disgustingly stacked.

It clears movement impairing conditions, breaks stun, is a 600 range backwards evade, gives endurance and gives you fury and therefor 5 mighstacks if you traited correctly.All that on a ~6 second CD if you take the energy cost/regeneration ratio into account.And Phase Traversal is in a similar boat.

If RS would actually be nerfed to give "just" the 600 range backwards evade with movement impairing condition clear (and they can keep the stun break for all I care), maybe they would actually have to drop some damage and take proper defensive traits or stances.

If I cant take full PVE dps traits on my weaver without getting absolutely demolished, why can Revs do just that?

Riposting Shadows is Shiro's signature skill from GW1. It's disgustingly powerful and a callback to the actual legend. I think that it should be powerful, but the ability of the Revenant to stack so many boons that buff the damage to insane levels without any real game play investment (like blasting might for example) as a passive is what should be looked at and adjusted in PvP specifically.

@lothefallen.7081 said:

@"Zenix.6198" said:While im not opposed to OPs idea, I think the problems with revs insane burst go much deeper than just the dmg modifiers or even the 25 might and perma fury (=which should be freaking nerfed as well).

Revs have been playing more or less the exact same build with the exact same playstyle since HoT release.And when I look at their go-to traitlines, I can't help but to see it as the rev-equivalent of a fire/air weaver.There is absolutely 0 defense in their trait choices.Anet has continuously buffed dwarf stance and the retribution traitline and yet people just dont use them.

So personally I see two ways to "fix" Rev.First: Nerf literally every "gain might"-, "gain fury"- and dmg modifier trait to a level that can be dealt with.ORSecond: Take the nerfbat to the Shiro-stance, specifically "Riposting Shadows" and "Phase Traversal".

Riposting Shadows is such an obnoxiously powerfull skill, that legit makes me wonder if the Devs have even realized how hard it carries the spec.Read its skilldescription. It's disgustingly stacked.

It clears movement impairing conditions, breaks stun, is a 600 range backwards evade, gives endurance and gives you fury and therefor 5 mighstacks if you traited correctly.All that on a ~6 second CD if you take the energy cost/regeneration ratio into account.And Phase Traversal is in a similar boat.

If RS would actually be nerfed to give "just" the 600 range backwards evade with movement impairing condition clear (and they can keep the stun break for all I care), maybe they would actually have to drop some damage and take proper defensive traits or stances.

If I cant take full PVE dps traits on my weaver without getting absolutely demolished, why can Revs do just that?

It’s almost like they should shave Notoriety for PvP only, instead of nerfing 1 skill, since the trait seems to be the issue for RS being so strong.

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:While im not opposed to OPs idea, I think the problems with revs insane burst go much deeper than just the dmg modifiers or even the 25 might and perma fury (=which should be freaking nerfed as well).

Revs have been playing more or less the exact same build with the exact same playstyle since HoT release.And when I look at their go-to traitlines, I can't help but to see it as the rev-equivalent of a fire/air weaver.There is absolutely 0 defense in their trait choices.Anet has continuously buffed dwarf stance and the retribution traitline and yet people just dont use them.

So personally I see two ways to "fix" Rev.First: Nerf literally every "gain might"-, "gain fury"- and dmg modifier trait to a level that can be dealt with.ORSecond: Take the nerfbat to the Shiro-stance, specifically "Riposting Shadows" and "Phase Traversal".

Riposting Shadows is such an obnoxiously powerfull skill, that legit makes me wonder if the Devs have even realized how hard it carries the spec.Read its skilldescription. It's disgustingly stacked.

It clears movement impairing conditions, breaks stun, is a 600 range backwards evade, gives endurance and gives you fury and therefor 5 mighstacks if you traited correctly.All that on a ~6 second CD if you take the energy cost/regeneration ratio into account.And Phase Traversal is in a similar boat.

If RS would actually be nerfed to give "just" the 600 range backwards evade with movement impairing condition clear (and they can keep the stun break for all I care), maybe they would actually have to drop some damage and take proper defensive traits or stances.

If I cant take full PVE dps traits on my weaver without getting absolutely demolished, why can Revs do just that?

Im not cherry picking. Notoriety for instance is extremely powerful regardless of what skill you use (might being 33% more effective).Its not that uncommon the see a revenant chain RS into dodge into Rs into dodge. And they still regen enough energy to throw in a staff 3 at some point.

And for your weaver comparison....Yes, its good defense, but I have to dedicate all of my traits to defense and cant turn around and just "burst people down" on freaking water attunement....which is very much "cherry picking in a vacuum" on your part. Js

@Zenix.6198 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:While im not opposed to OPs idea, I think the problems with revs insane burst go much deeper than just the dmg modifiers or even the 25 might and perma fury (=which should be freaking nerfed as well).

Revs have been playing more or less the exact same build with the exact same playstyle since HoT release.And when I look at their go-to traitlines, I can't help but to see it as the rev-equivalent of a fire/air weaver.There is absolutely 0 defense in their trait choices.Anet has continuously buffed dwarf stance and the retribution traitline and yet people just dont use them.

So personally I see two ways to "fix" Rev.First: Nerf literally every "gain might"-, "gain fury"- and dmg modifier trait to a level that can be dealt with.ORSecond: Take the nerfbat to the Shiro-stance, specifically "Riposting Shadows" and "Phase Traversal".

Riposting Shadows is such an obnoxiously powerfull skill, that legit makes me wonder if the Devs have even realized how hard it carries the spec.Read its skilldescription. It's disgustingly stacked.

It clears movement impairing conditions, breaks stun, is a 600 range backwards evade, gives endurance and gives you fury and therefor 5 mighstacks if you traited correctly.All that on a ~6 second CD if you take the energy cost/regeneration ratio into account.And Phase Traversal is in a similar boat.

If RS would actually be nerfed to give "just" the 600 range backwards evade with movement impairing condition clear (and they can keep the stun break for all I care), maybe they would actually have to drop some damage and take proper defensive traits or stances.

If I cant take full PVE dps traits on my weaver without getting absolutely demolished, why can Revs do just that?

Oh geeze the current Weaver build in PvP is great defense and great burst, and lulz at can’t burst in water... it’s not like Weaver doesn’t have access to other attumejts/attunement combos that can’t burst, again cherry picking.

And again using the the RS especially Twice in a row locks Revenant from using almost every skill except AA or forcing them to Legend Swap which isn’t always ideal, and one more time, if Revs use almost any other skills or in a different legend guess what no RS up due to lack of energy. Again have to look at the class as a whole instead of cherry picking inna vacuum.

The issue isn’t RS it’s Notoriety, so the smart thing to do is shave Notoriety’s might gain slightly in PvP.

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:It’s almost like they should shave Notoriety for PvP only, instead of nerfing 1 skill, since the trait seems to be the issue for RS being so strong.

Passive game play can be fun if it's not something that over-centralizes the need to counter with class or sigil specific features like boon ripping. In order to adequately handle this Rev build and keep it from decimating in team fights, you basically have to focus boon rip and even then it's still very powerful. Not all classes have access to reliable boon rip to handle passive elements of a class. It creates game play situations that aren't engaging and show that there's a selfish element to the class design since devs seem to care more about how OP they can make a class feel to the player to get that dopamine pumping rather than how it influences the game as a whole. No class should be able to stack might that high with no assistance from other classes while smoking a cigar and involving more passive gameplay elements than active ones.

@lothefallen.7081 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:It’s almost like they should shave Notoriety for PvP only, instead of nerfing 1 skill, since the trait seems to be the issue for RS being so strong.

Again read what I said, it might help I said shave the might generation, let’s repeat that one more time, shave the might generation of Notoriety, and every class in PvP does have access to boon rip through sigils, if boons are such an issue it would be smart for people having issues with booms to run those, now this doesn’t even take into account 3 classes with the best boon rip in game, or the fact that any class can easily generate 25 might with the Sigil, Runes and inherent traits and skills those classes have, fyi Rev isn’t the only class that can easily generate 25 might by itself.

And technically it’s not passive gameplay since you have to use specific active skills to utilize those traits js.

You got hit for 17k from a S3. S3 is highly telegraphed and doesn't hit all the damage instantly. There are other skills in the game on other classes that can do twice this damage instantly and in many cases from stealth with no telegraph or animation at all. You had enough endurance for an evade, but didn't use it.

TL;DR you got outplayed.

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:While im not opposed to OPs idea, I think the problems with revs insane burst go much deeper than just the dmg modifiers or even the 25 might and perma fury (=which should be freaking nerfed as well).

Revs have been playing more or less the exact same build with the exact same playstyle since HoT release.And when I look at their go-to traitlines, I can't help but to see it as the rev-equivalent of a fire/air weaver.There is absolutely 0 defense in their trait choices.Anet has continuously buffed dwarf stance and the retribution traitline and yet people just dont use them.

So personally I see two ways to "fix" Rev.First: Nerf literally every "gain might"-, "gain fury"- and dmg modifier trait to a level that can be dealt with.ORSecond: Take the nerfbat to the Shiro-stance, specifically "Riposting Shadows" and "Phase Traversal".

Riposting Shadows is such an obnoxiously powerfull skill, that legit makes me wonder if the Devs have even realized how hard it carries the spec.Read its skilldescription. It's disgustingly stacked.

It clears movement impairing conditions, breaks stun, is a 600 range backwards evade, gives endurance and gives you fury and therefor 5 mighstacks if you traited correctly.All that on a ~6 second CD if you take the energy cost/regeneration ratio into account.And Phase Traversal is in a similar boat.

If RS would actually be nerfed to give "just" the 600 range backwards evade with movement impairing condition clear (and they can keep the stun break for all I care), maybe they would actually have to drop some damage and take proper defensive traits or stances.

If I cant take full PVE dps traits on my weaver without getting absolutely demolished, why can Revs do just that?

Funny that you say that Rev has to give up its ability to counterpressure when they want to chain RS' but still make an argument for weaver being able to "burst" their targets.

Anyhow...to get somewhat back on track.I said nerfing RS was 1 of 2 options. Im fine with nerfing their dmg mods and offensive boon accessibility as well.And (this time at least) I have to agree that Notoriety is one of the main offenders.But not only because it produces might as a byproduct, but also because it makes might in general more effective (40 power per stack is pretty neat).

Personally I would prefer it tho, if Rev simply was forced to take up actual defenses.Shield is pretty nice ever since the buffs it received. Retribution traitline also doesn't look bad (at least on paper).But nobody uses those tools, since their full PVE-dps specs still gives them reasonably good defenses.

@Zenix.6198 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:While im not opposed to OPs idea, I think the problems with revs insane burst go much deeper than just the dmg modifiers or even the 25 might and perma fury (=which should be freaking nerfed as well).

Revs have been playing more or less the exact same build with the exact same playstyle since HoT release.And when I look at their go-to traitlines, I can't help but to see it as the rev-equivalent of a fire/air weaver.There is absolutely 0 defense in their trait choices.Anet has continuously buffed dwarf stance and the retribution traitline and yet people just dont use them.

So personally I see two ways to "fix" Rev.First: Nerf literally every "gain might"-, "gain fury"- and dmg modifier trait to a level that can be dealt with.ORSecond: Take the nerfbat to the Shiro-stance, specifically "Riposting Shadows" and "Phase Traversal".

Riposting Shadows is such an obnoxiously powerfull skill, that legit makes me wonder if the Devs have even realized how hard it carries the spec.Read its skilldescription. It's disgustingly stacked.

It clears movement impairing conditions, breaks stun, is a 600 range backwards evade, gives endurance and gives you fury and therefor 5 mighstacks if you traited correctly.All that on a ~6 second CD if you take the energy cost/regeneration ratio into account.And Phase Traversal is in a similar boat.

If RS would actually be nerfed to give "just" the 600 range backwards evade with movement impairing condition clear (and they can keep the stun break for all I care), maybe they would actually have to drop some damage and take proper defensive traits or stances.

If I cant take full PVE dps traits on my weaver without getting absolutely demolished, why can Revs do just that?

For one Revs inherent design locks them out of doing things, ie can’t access utility skills if they use a weapon skill or two, or vice versa at all times, something that Weaver doesn’t have to worry about since, you know because Weavers utilities and weapon skills are tied to the exact same resource pool so weavers can be defensive and offensive at the same time, they aren’t sacrificing anything for their great survivability and great burst, smh.

Oh I wish Rev had more meaningful Defenses for PvP, but because of Revs inherent design the defenses they have mean next to nothing in sPvP, which means they have to go all in damage wise if they are going to be useful.