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Let actual skilled PvPers redesign PvP with a dev.


Chasind.3128

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For god sakes NO, basemen dwellers with no jobs "pros", complained and complained and that got us the blow you up meta.

Design around average players NOT "pros", assume most players either can not or are not willing to learn to play a simphony on their keyboard to play this game.

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@"Apolo.5942" said:For god sakes NO, basemen dwellers with no jobs "pros", complained and complained and that got us the blow you up meta.

Design around average players NOT "pros", assume most players either can not or are not willing to learn to play a simphony on their keyboard to play this game.

So, punish skilled players? Sometimes it takes a very skilled player or 'pro' player to see all that is wrong and it CAN work. PvPers want new players, but not rank to be handed out like what casuals want.

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@Chasind.3128 said:

@"Apolo.5942" said:For god sakes NO, basemen dwellers with no jobs "pros", complained and complained and that got us the blow you up meta.

Design around average players NOT "pros", assume most players either can not or are not willing to learn to play a simphony on their keyboard to play this game.

So, punish skilled players? Sometimes it takes a very skilled player or 'pro' player to see all that is wrong and it CAN work. PvPers want new players, but not rank to be handed out like what casuals want.

We already tried this, and this current situation is the result.

Time for a new plan, time to casual it up.

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@Chasind.3128 said:what would you do to 'help' the dev in charge of PvP redesign this game mode?You can't delete classes, or over nerf to unplayable in medium and higher ranks (like ele) because you dislike fighting against them.

That's what people want. This is actually the result of balancing around casuals. Classes People dont like to play against. Removed from the competitive environment. Welcome to casual wars 2

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@Apolo.5942 said:

@Apolo.5942 said:For god sakes NO, basemen dwellers with no jobs "pros", complained and complained and that got us the blow you up meta.

Design around average players NOT "pros", assume most players either can not or are not willing to learn to play a simphony on their keyboard to play this game.

So, punish skilled players? Sometimes it takes a very skilled player or 'pro' player to see all that is wrong and it CAN work. PvPers want new players, but not rank to be handed out like what casuals want.

We already tried this, and this current situation is the result.

Time for a new plan, time to casual it up.

Balancing to the casuals is what got balance the way it is now. The casual players couldn't pull off damage or cc combos well so anet just added in more damage/cc so the majority could play better. That resulted in cc spam being absurdly high and almost every prof being capable of 1 shots. The casual players couldn't dodge an attack properly so anet added in counter cc passives, invuln procs, and ridiculous amounts of sustain to builds which resulted in bunker metas or builds that realistically can't be killed 1v1 without a mirror matchup (and even then, it takes a very long time for those duels to end). All you get by balancing to the casual players is passive play or gimmicks that piss everyone off because they carry bad players to victories that they don't deserve. Balancing to higher level play promotes not only more active and skillful play, but also promotes learning and rewards you for learning (something this game fails at doing). Take a look at the way LoL handles balance: They balance according to how champions perform at high levels (not necessarily only the pro scene, but just high level play). Gw2 has a history of listening to the complaints of bad players who possess very little knowledge of not only the class they complain about, but the class they themselves are playing (which then leads to them believing they understand balance when they do not and allows anet to continually make bad changes to the game, examples of this being thief stealth attacks gaining cds in addition to massive after casts, rev being unable to do effective damage outside of OH sword, every class being capable of boon spam, etc.). It also doesn't help balance when anet intentionally makes elite specs as upgrades to the base classes which is a balance flaw in itself as the natural built in weaknesses of the classes are then removed resulting in everyone being able to create builds that can survive incredibly well, deal insane damage, have high mobility, high cc, high condition output, etc. all in one build. This is a problem because everyone being op =/= balance and that is something the casual playerbase does not understand.

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Only if they have some kind of personal attachment to it. Since it isn't their job, they would be volunteers and there would be no real consequences for them if they majorly screw things up.

Like if they do a poor job, their accounts get banned. That would add some personal investment to doing a good job. There needs to be some pressure to do a good job and a gaurentee that they'll be impartial (which is part of doing a good job).

Balance is best done when the developers follow on their own development vision and don't take the players into too much consideration. Players are fickle and tend to be very biased towards what they play. Of course, players can serve to find bugs or exceedingly broken mechanics. But players are liable to jump on something and call it OP more than anything, especially players on a game's forums. That isn't just GW2, most game forums are like this.

No. I wouldn't trust the so-called 'expert playerbase' to this. Sure, they occasionally have good ideas. But player suggestions in a game are the equivalent to fan-fiction for a literary universe. You don't want the writers drawing from them as a pool for ideas, most of the time. Even if someone is great at dissecting and analysing a product, that doesn't mean they are good at producing or refining one.

If a fan of GW2 happens to have the educational credentials and/or experience to be an expert on MMO balance, I'd encourage them to apply for a job at Anet instead.

Or maybe get the person who is in charge of Mesmer balance, and make them in charge of all profession balance. Since Mesmer has always been in a pretty good spot for PvE, PvP, and WvWvW, I can only assume that the person who balances Mesmer knows their stuff.

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@Eme.2018 said:

@Solori.6025 said:That's what people want. This is actually the result of balancing around casuals. Classes People dont like to play against. Removed from the competitive environment. Welcome to casual wars 2

Then why the kitten is mesmer still here?

Because instead of listening to people that actually can identify the problem with condi mirage they keep listening to casuals complain about things like torch or blurred frenzy, or vigor.Maybe mes would have been fixed by now if they would have listened to the people not stuck in the lower echelons of spvpAnd still..people still want mes and thief removed from the game.Throw out necro for good measure.You know what people are not complaining about as much. The God that is Boonbeast. I wonder why..?

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There is always bias from devs who design specific classes as well as top player mains. So it’s not as helpful as you think.

Casuals on the other hand shouldn’t get a say either, if you don’t know how to dodge shatters, backstabs, snipes and deal with things like Moa and Rampage or pick your flavour of anything similar..... Then they really shouldn’t be saying something is OP until they unscrub.

We need Sakurai.

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A PTR/PTS where everyone can influence the game would be much better in my opinion. Not all, but a small loud minority of top players finding success in the meta are the first to jump into arguments on why their class and the meta are fine, L2P. Similarly pretty much every individual person in the game has some sort of class bias, myself included. Taking ideas and feedback from everyone from the top to bottom of the ladder would eliminate that problem, and that's how most other games balance their competitive modes.

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@Apolo.5942 said:

@Apolo.5942 said:For god sakes NO, basemen dwellers with no jobs "pros", complained and complained and that got us the blow you up meta.

Design around average players NOT "pros", assume most players either can not or are not willing to learn to play a simphony on their keyboard to play this game.

So, punish skilled players? Sometimes it takes a very skilled player or 'pro' player to see all that is wrong and it CAN work. PvPers want new players, but not rank to be handed out like what casuals want.

We already tried this, and this current situation is the result.

Time for a new plan, time to casual it up.

Actually this is what we currently have or haven't you noticed damage is so high and easy that a lobotomised monkey can kill people now by spamming skills?

What we need is people to give honest feedback, if they think everything is too much SAY SO! Instead we have the degenerates in the ele forum screaming "BUFFS BUFFS BUFFS!!" when really they should be screaming for everything to be nerfed down including weaver sustain. The worst part is they know kitten well that asking for buffs will lead to more power creep, they know it's bad, they know the right call are nerfs to everything, they just make excuses saying "It'll never happen" or "It's too hard to nerf everything" or "It's easier to just buff a few things to be competitive".

You see it in a lot of forums btw but ele is the worst atm.

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@apharma.3741 said:

@Apolo.5942 said:For god sakes NO, basemen dwellers with no jobs "pros", complained and complained and that got us the blow you up meta.

Design around average players NOT "pros", assume most players either can not or are not willing to learn to play a simphony on their keyboard to play this game.

So, punish skilled players? Sometimes it takes a very skilled player or 'pro' player to see all that is wrong and it CAN work. PvPers want new players, but not rank to be handed out like what casuals want.

We already tried this, and this current situation is the result.

Time for a new plan, time to casual it up.

Actually this is what we currently have or haven't you noticed damage is so high and easy that a lobotomised monkey can kill people now by spamming skills?

What we need is people to give honest feedback, if they think everything is too much SAY SO! Instead we have the degenerates in the ele forum screaming "BUFFS BUFFS BUFFS!!" when really they should be screaming for everything to be nerfed down including weaver sustain. The worst part is they know kitten well that asking for buffs will lead to more power creep, they know it's bad, they know the right call are nerfs to everything, they just make excuses saying "It'll never happen" or "It's too hard to nerf everything" or "It's easier to just buff a few things to be competitive".

You see it in a lot of forums btw but ele is the worst atm.

Hold on...

I get called a delusional troll, nab and bronze lord scrub who need to L2P when I ask for nerfs on other professions, I get banned from the forums for setting up threads asking for healthy nerfs because all the carebears jump to my throat to protect their braindead kitten whichever class it is

I get called a degenerate for asking instead for buffs on the classes I like to play and accused of promoting powercreep

I tell you what, I'll just go naked in the map and wait there to be killed just to make everybody happy.....

The truth is this is not the kind of community you can talk about sportmanship and healthy competition , the majority of players here wants to get rewarded for skills they don't have and this whole game is set up in that way for them so...let's stop the whiteknighting....and let's put everybody on the same perceived powercreep level.

If only one profession can be partially succesfull with running on a point and press buttons randomly then every bird will flock to that profession, it has been so for years now since March 2013 with mesmer and thief rework....yeah it was the time of the HS spammers and clone burst..the game only got worst from there, so I don't know what skill you're talking about in GW2...I come from GW1 , from a time where the devs were actually in charge of balance and not worried about....I'll let the video below do the talk

I will leave this video so that you may finally understand how "balance" work in MMOs these days and why people should stop trying to hold the candle and let everybody take a slice of the fun cake

Steve Jobs Interview Product People should get promoted Over Sales Marketing Peoplehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AxZofbMGpM&t=44s

P.S Yeah I will keep asking for buffs on ele..and I will stop doing that when they will seriously start nerfing the shit out of condi/boon spam - stealth burst and 1200 range insta kill BS...until then have a nice day

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Send out a questionaire to the 30 players with the highest combined years of playing and games played on both EU and NA, ask a series of focus questions and leave a large area for personal insights. Compare the results, everywhere that people agree on being a problem should be looked at.

Then actually implement those changes without personal bias and complementary buffs.

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@Ziggityzog.7389 said:Easy fix. Let the one and only person working on pvp part time go and re hire all of the gw1 pvp team. Sit back wait for HoH, GVG, Team Arena, Random Arena, and Alliance battles.

Then watch hordes of players come to play.

Now this is a solution I can stand behind. What the hell happened to the GW1 pvp team? And I wonder if they could salvage GW2 pvp?

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Apolo.5942 said:For god sakes NO, basemen dwellers with no jobs "pros", complained and complained and that got us the blow you up meta.

Design around average players NOT "pros", assume most players either can not or are not willing to learn to play a simphony on their keyboard to play this game.

So, punish skilled players? Sometimes it takes a very skilled player or 'pro' player to see all that is wrong and it CAN work. PvPers want new players, but not rank to be handed out like what casuals want.

We already tried this, and this current situation is the result.

Time for a new plan, time to casual it up.

Actually this is what we currently have or haven't you noticed damage is so high and easy that a lobotomised monkey can kill people now by spamming skills?

What we need is people to give honest feedback, if they think everything is too much SAY SO! Instead we have the degenerates in the ele forum screaming "BUFFS BUFFS BUFFS!!" when really they should be screaming for everything to be nerfed down including weaver sustain. The worst part is they know kitten well that asking for buffs will lead to more power creep, they know it's bad, they know the right call are nerfs to everything, they just make excuses saying "It'll never happen" or "It's too hard to nerf everything" or "It's easier to just buff a few things to be competitive".

You see it in a lot of forums btw but ele is the worst atm.

Hold on...

I get called a delusional troll, nab and bronze lord scrub who need to L2P when I ask for nerfs on other professions, I get banned from the forums for setting up threads asking for healthy nerfs because all the carebears jump to my throat to protect their braindead kitten whichever class it is

I get called a degenerate for asking instead for buffs on the classes I like to play and accused of promoting powercreep

I tell you what, I'll just go naked in the map and wait there to be killed just to make everybody happy.....

The truth is this is not the kind of community you can talk about
sportmanship
and
healthy competition
, the majority of players here wants to get rewarded for skills they don't have and this whole game is set up in that way for them so...
let's stop the whiteknighting
....and let's put everybody on the same perceived powercreep level.

If only one profession can be partially succesfull with running on a point and press buttons randomly then every bird will flock to that profession, it has been so for years now since March 2013 with mesmer and thief rework....yeah it was the time of the HS spammers and clone burst..the game only got worst from there, so I don't know what skill you're talking about in GW2...I come from GW1 , from a time where the devs were actually in charge of balance and not worried about....I'll let the video below do the talk

I will leave this video so that you may finally understand how "balance" work in MMOs these days and why people should stop trying to hold the candle and let everybody take a slice of the fun cake

Steve Jobs Interview Product People should get promoted Over Sales Marketing People

P.S Yeah I will keep asking for buffs on ele..and I will stop doing that when they will seriously start nerfing the kitten out of condi/boon spam - stealth burst and 1200 range insta kill BS...until then have a nice day

Yup, that about nails it down right there.

Maybe instead of posting about what we demand to be fixed, we should mention what we would be willing to purchase if it was implemented.

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There is a tiny tiny problem with this. It is just a really small one but really! How do you identify a skilled player?

Matches won? They could have been carried by the four others or they could have won because someone in their team has done the right decisionsNumber of Top Stats? There can be players in a match who has no Top Stats at the end but had done a greater job than the player who has 3Average rank? Again they might have been lucky with the matchmaking and get people they were able to click with or carried by.Number of YouTube subscribers or Twitch viewers? All I need to do for that is screech non-stop and whine to get publicity. I am not saying everyone does that but that can get high viewership easily :)Voted by the community for it? Then we would get people whining about casuals choosing the skilled players who are not really skilled in their eyes.

Of course you can identify a bad player easily but identifying a skilled one is difficult because a player may look skilled in one match but then he looks average in the next

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@"Apolo.5942" said:For god sakes NO, basemen dwellers with no jobs "pros", complained and complained and that got us the blow you up meta.

Design around average players NOT "pros", assume most players either can not or are not willing to learn to play a simphony on their keyboard to play this game.

That's basically like saying the goverment of a state should only consist out of average dumb ppl to make average dumb laws that fit the average dumb citizen.

GG to your neck-beard-ignorance.

Also Gw2 is not a hard game where you have to "play a simphony on your keyboard" to be decent.

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