Place your bets. Is ________ (massive spoiler)

Aurene really/permanently dead?

nope, the Great Immortal King Joko lives in her! Then she's gonna regen herself soon.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Aurene eating Joko would cause her to come back to life. They also mentioned a prophecy as well, with Joko being killed as one of the omens or something.

After that heaping helping of immortal lich magic, I doubt she'll stay dead.

Dunno if it'd be from the "helping of immortal lich magic" given that all previous indications showed that magic doesn't work like that (if it did, there'd be no "Elder Crystal Dragon" "Elder Death Dragon" etc. as the Elder Dragons wouldn't only eat their specific kind of magic, and we know they haven't either). But the plot pretty much rests on a scion of Glint saving the day, and has built up Aurene as that scion, especially since the only other scion was Vlast.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Dunno if it'd be from the "helping of immortal lich magic" given that all previous indications showed that magic doesn't work like that (if it did, there'd be no "Elder Crystal Dragon" "Elder Death Dragon" etc. as the Elder Dragons wouldn't only eat their specific kind of magic, and we know they haven't either). But the plot pretty much rests on a scion of Glint saving the day, and has built up Aurene as that scion, especially since the only other scion was Vlast.

What is very interesting though is in the final mission, Kralkatorrik charges up that attack, that Braham blocks, which showed energy from Mordremoth, Zhaitan and Balthazar (as shown in icon form) Kralkatorrik doesn’t seem to show any signs of using the magic that Balthazar took from Primordus and Jormag. Perhaps when Balthazar absorbed the magic it no longer was dragon energy and became god energy, maybe? Given that Kralkatorrik and Aurene both gained Mist travelling abilities from Balthazar, there might be an opening for Aurene to have gained Joko’s immortality.

So here's my "first reaction thoughts" to how this plot may go. Obviously we're not entering a scenario where the world ends. Some key facts that seem... curious:

Firstly, to point out all things of interest:

1. There was a prophecy (my first thought was by Glint but she stated she couldn't foresee past her confrontation with Kralkatorrik, and we do know more prophets exist beyond the crystal dragons) that one of her children will require use of her lair in the Mists to hide from Kralkatorrik, and that such will happen after the lich's death - Joko's death.
2. Unlike Glint (supposedly), Aurene foresaw her death.

This would suggest that her death isn't final. Or Glint lied.

1. Like I said above, Elder Dragons (and by extension, dragons) don't just gain other types of magic by consuming that magic. Otherwise there'd be no elemental distinction - the Elder Dragons are not kind enough, not even to each other, so they wouldn't spare a cup of magic for their neighbor.
2. When Aurene died, Caithe lost connection. Joko never actually died (until his magic was unbound), and his connection to the Awakened never lost.

Because of this, I doubt she'll pull a Joko - at least because of Joko.

There are three more curious facts about Aurene:

1. However, Aurene ate a good portion of Mordremoth (and less so, Zhaitan) magic as well. We've not seen this manifest in Aurene at all, except her face as a baby. Mordremoth was capable of surviving the death of his body by transferring his mind into his corruption. Zhaitan was the Elder Death Dragon, though we never see him utilize lich-like abilities, he did command some liches such as Mazdak. Aurene wouldn't need Joko's magic to pull a Joko, she had Mordy's and Zhaitan's (note that this means Primordus and Kralkatorrik can also do this if they took Mind and Death domains).
2. Curiously, Aurene was pulled aside for Glint to tell her the truth about Ascension. THIS IS DEFINITELY THE KEY. After this, not only did Aurene's model change (blue glow between her scales) but she no longer feared death to Kralkatorrik, and I doubt it was because her bond with the Commander grew after slaying the vision of Branded Aurene.
3. Unlike Glint and Vlast, Aurene's corpse is not crystallized. It was very much fleshy still, with torn, bloody leg and wing. Though Vlast went the extra mile and exploded after, he was crystallizing after being stabbed (I think he intentionally exploded, to ward Balthazar off from killing the Commander whom he knew to be Aurene's champion).

By this, I have two theories:

1. Aurene's body died, but she pulled a Mordremoth and transferred her mind into a new body. Caithe lost the connection because, unlike Mordremoth, Aurene's far weaker and needed all her strength to pull this off. We'll start Episode 6 with contact from Caithe feeling the connection again.
2. Aurene did die. Not to say she'll pull a resurrection, but something will happen where her death was Just According to Keikaku. Ascension into an Elder Dragon actually requires death.

@Tyson.5160 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Dunno if it'd be from the "helping of immortal lich magic" given that all previous indications showed that magic doesn't work like that (if it did, there'd be no "Elder Crystal Dragon" "Elder Death Dragon" etc. as the Elder Dragons wouldn't only eat their specific kind of magic, and we know they haven't either). But the plot pretty much rests on a scion of Glint saving the day, and has built up Aurene as that scion, especially since the only other scion was Vlast.

Balthazar always used his signature fire magic, so it's likely that Balthazar changed the magic and that change allowed Kralkatorrik and Aurene to get that style of magic. But Balthazar was also not quite following Tyrian magic laws either. Why they could use Balthazar's magic, and had the feeling of him as Zafirah notes, depends really on the nature of the gods and their divinity.

so...... what's the wager???

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:By this, I have two theories:

1. Aurene's body died, but she pulled a Mordremoth and transferred her mind into a new body. Caithe lost the connection because, unlike Mordremoth, Aurene's far weaker and needed all her strength to pull this off. We'll start Episode 6 with contact from Caithe feeling the connection again.
2. Aurene did die. Not to say she'll pull a resurrection, but something will happen where her death was Just According to Keikaku. Ascension into an Elder Dragon actually requires death.Basically this.

Anet isn't just going to kill Aurene off after all the time we put into the story unless Aurene is either still alive, or comes back.

I do think her rebirth will have something to do with Joko. That ending was so anti-climatic given his speech and so much time was focused on him. It just seems like bad writing format for them to just off a character that was so pivotal since Mordremoth. Although, they did off Lazarus like he was no big deal so as much as I want to believe otherwise - there's still a chance a bad writing.

We've come a long way and in a way, they butchered the Elder Dragons IMHO. Ever since HoT, they've tried to humanize them which I felt was a mistake and what spiraled this focus into ridding Tyria of them and moving forward so the next Expansion will have nothing to do with them.

Given that there were prophecies up to this point, Aurene's death seems likely to be part of "the plan" for defeating Kraalk which we are not privy to. As far as the mechanics of how this leads to victory and a replacement Elder Dragon, who knows. Could be Joko's magic, as he was part of the prophecy, and we don't really know the nature of his magic -- dragons don't necessarily convert all types of magic to their own, or we wouldn't have death-branded this and that or a super Balth attack. Could be that Joko stole divine magic to create the Awakened, in which case it could persist.

Other options: Could be Mordremoth's body switch, using Caithe as the host. Though that would be hard to pull off given the "willing connection" characterization.

Could be more of a Chrono Trigger thing -- maybe Glint was having a conversation with Aurene about where little doppelgangers come from, and she pulled a switcheroo (though any explanation that involves her not actually being dead would also require that she severed her link with Caithe et al).

Regardless, I think Aurene will be back (if only because our fancy new mastery is technically powered by our bond with her). Plus, we're pretty much at the point of no return. Kraalkatorik is too powerful to survive another episode, but we need a dragon in play to replace it.

@perilisk.1874 said:Plus, we're pretty much at the point of no return. Kraalkatorik is too powerful to survive another episode, but we need a dragon in play to replace it.

Plot twist: Vlast didn't actually die and explode. He faked his death. No body was ever found.

All Hail Vlast, the Elder Crystal Dragon!

Yes, she's dead. In as much as anything or anyone in GW2 is ever dead, which is to say not at all. The deep, underlying problem is that we all know now that nothing is forever in this world. Ogden even jokes about in this chapter. We literally go to see a dead dwarf and he's standing right there, waiting for us, and not only that but, although he died before we were even born, he knows who we are and what we've been up to. And then he makes a joke about how boring it is being dead!

The player character has been dead and got better! MOre than half our allies in this fight are dead (ghosts, awakened) but they all act and talk as though being dead is exactly the same as being alive. Which, in this world, it is! At least in terms of continuity of existence. The details may change but the essence remains the same.

I wonder why we even imagine Zhaitan and Mordremoth are dead. Don't dragons get ghosts, too? Glint certainly might as well still be alive, the way she pops in to tell us what to do next. I think it's a total narrative dead end. It no longer matters whether any character lives or dies because death in GW2 is only a flesh wound.

It's not my bet, it's my hope.

In the words of Kormir, "No. Yes... And much more".

We never understood how reforging a dragon would look. Nor did we actually have a mold large enough to do so. But that was our plan right? We would melt the dragon, which the tuning crystals do, and we hit him with them a bunch. Once molten.... I guess we figured something would happen, not sure exactly what, but Aurene seemed to agree with the plan.

One thing I remember from science, is if you put a crystal in a disorganized, molten or otherwise un-bound form of it's base materials, the unbound materials can grow off of the added crystals and re-from into the same pattern as the seed crystal. There is no mold large enough to hold the power of Kralkatoric, and I doubt that so much power could be forcefully shaped anyways. Lets say crystal science works in the case of a crystal god's mind, if whatever we mollified inside of Kralk's head where seeded with say another crystal to our liking, say Aurene's crystalline self, it could mean something fairly significant, even if Kralks body remains intact.

I felt like the 'cheeriness' of how everything was coming together was a feint. But this is probably the severity of this failure is a feint too.... Well i mean, I think a lot of people died, but reforging a dragon, ascension, is undoubtedly messy.... but what we did was mostly successful. We've tempered the steel, I believe Aurene has seeded the structure. But now what? Oh yeah, forging. etc. ect, we have to quench whatever we forged... You know, The Commander did that with the first set of spears by pulling a lever. The Commander did a very good job pulling that lever, perhaps it should be done again sometime, maybe in the next episode.

So who, uhm, has a huge quantity of magical oil? We are going to need a lot of it. I mean an ocean's worth of it... Now how do you get a confused elder dragon to take a bath?

I hope she's dead because I don't want to have gone through the emotional topsy-turvy of 4.5 to find that it didn't mean anything.But if the Commander can die and be not dead (and not undead), if Rurik could return, if Shiro came back, then sure, why not? It seems like the kind of thing ANet would do.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:I hope she's dead because I don't want to have gone through the emotional topsy-turvy of 4.5 to find that it didn't mean anything.But if the Commander can die and be not dead (and not undead), if Rurik could return, if Shiro came back, then sure, why not? It seems like the kind of thing ANet would do.

Well, they could have her come back at the end of the next episode AFTER we finish Kralk. Perhaps Glint will speak to us and tell us to keep pursuing Kralk despite the lack of a magic absorbing back up because she has a plan? And then at the end Aurene comes back to life just to absorb the magic and ascend. That we the ending of this episode and her death gives us that much more fuel to make sure that it wasn’t for nothing. I think that might be my best scenario. Finishing him off at his original location in the homelands and then for the past part of the episode we deal with the “aftermath” i.e. Aurene ascending and she kind of sets off on her own thing after we catch up with her and witness her ascension. Whether that be hibernating with presumably no current dragon threat on the table or a vision hinting at the plot of season 5. So we have the somber beginning and a non cliche-at-this-point life or death cliffhanger ending that really finishes up the Kralk plot and this season overall.

I’m just really not a fan of having another season devoted to Kralk, and really want Aurene to be back even if she doesn’t fit the same sidekick role she does now. Just a nice peaceful elder dragon in some enchanted forest looking zone somewhere where we can go and visit her when we need to. Lol

On a side note I feel like they’ve added a lot of Aztec/Mayan things to the game recently that make me think they’re adding a lot of those assets behind the scenes. Like the new legendary scepter and the gecko Springer mount. They just seemed really random to me and I can’t help but wonder if we’re going to be seeing a Tengu tie in soon. Or maybe the expansion or next living season will be dealing with some new area themed around those. Not to mention the new Siren fractal has those ruins which don’t really look like any other ruins in the game, at least the head gate thing. Just get the impression that these aren’t completely thematically random. Also, seen a lot of assets this season that would look great in a Canthan based expansion.

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Well, they could have her come back at the end of the next episode AFTER we finish Kralk. Perhaps Glint will speak to us and tell us to keep pursuing Kralk despite the lack of a magic absorbing back up because she has a plan? And then at the end Aurene comes back to life just to absorb the magic and ascend.

This might actually work. Remember, we need elder dragons to absorb magic, otherwise the magic punches a hole into reality. Kralkatorrik was able to punch holes into the Mists and back. Aurene is likely to be somewhere inside the Mists right now, so if we punch the right hole, we could get her back.I'm curious about another thing, though. Since Kralkatorrik is now at ~30% health, he might be too weakened to be able to brand more land or open new rifts, which could give the time needed to hunt him down. And then we crash Tyria.

I bet my 2 cent she isn't dead, or better, she will come back.i think like Rytlock became a revenant channeling Glint power for first time, Glint will teach to aurene perma-channeling her power.

I was predicting a loss and i'm glad we got one.

It's not entirely how I thought it was going to end, I wasn't actually expecting Aurine to die although I can't see it being permanent since we've already established that Kralkatorrik cannot be destroyed without being replaced.

Aurine is the only being we know of who can achieve this goal and I hightly doubt Anet will settle with building Aurine up since living world season 2 which is the first appearance of her egg only to have her die now and fail in the one thing she was born to do and that the entire Glint's legacy is based on.She'll be back.. she can't die off like this, if she is perma dead then Kralkatorrik more or less becomes invincible.Plot armor dictates Aurine cannot stay dead and Kralkatorrik cannot be invincible.

I've seen people say things like she'll fight in the mists.. die and become an Elder dragon or transfered her mind elsewhere etc but I prefer a far more simple solution which Anet has been showcasing us for a while now which some have overlooked.

Kralkatorrik can brand the dead.. and we see in this very patch that they've already made a Branded Aurine model and I don't think we've seen the last of it.

We've significantly hurt Kralkatorrik after this latest battle and I expect that he'll take some time to recover now that we've blown a hole in his face and damn near killed him.Aurine is no longer a threat to him and neither are we without her.. add to that he lost his Death Branded Shatterer in Jahai as well so he's currently absent of a champion as well.

I predict that Kralkatorrik will seek to recover from this battle and he will brand and revive Aurine as his new champion at the end of the next episode to continue his destruction while he rests.I expect Kralkatorrik may go into a sleep like state for the duration of living world 6 and Aurine will be the main focus, specifically repelling her attacks and trying to find a way to save her.. killing her will not be an option as we still need her to replace Kralkatorrik.This leads us into seeking out and tracking down the Forgotten who are currently believed to be extinct in the desperate hope that they may be able to help us break Aurines corruption and free her just like they did for Glint a very long time ago.. and also capturing Aurine to perform the ritual that will free her.

This will be a very interesting thing to see since we have never seen this process in the Guildwars franchsie and only heard about it yet it remains a very mysterious event we know little about.The forgotten too are a very facinating race that many fans like myself have long been wanting to see in Gw2.I expect once we've freed Aurine, Kralkatorrik will once again awaken to deal with the threat of a bigger and stronger Aurine who's been empowered with his own magic after being branded.And the next time we fight that monster.. he's going to die.

about Aurene death as part of a "big plan":

A lot of GW2 characters that get a lot of attention in the story die and never return. It is something that sadly really hurts the possible story arcs, but the writers still like to do this. FE:Caudecus, Lazarus, Joko, Blish, Balthazar. The only characters that seemed to escape this are in DE and DW. Aurene is just the last victim to this "a good story is when you dare to kill your characters" trend.

I hope she is not revived next episode. BC next episode is likely created by team 3, who is narratively the weakest team. They will not be able to create a good story arc where aurene comes back.

She BETTER not be! She's one of the few current NPCs I liked, and it would be BS to have built her up as the one hope only to kebab her like that.

I'm coming around to thinking that the Joko theory is mostly the right one, mostly because they actually went to the trouble of answering the question "can dragon minions be awakened" by putting an Awakened Sylvari in the last instance.

Though it could be a combination of two things -- maybe she had go to the Mists as a spirit to gain the power needed to defeat Kraalkatorik (possibly to do something related to ascension or learning to use the divine magic at her disposal) , but also had to be alive to be able to fulfill her role as a scion (that is, if ghost dragons could replace elder dragons, glint would have still been a candidate for replacing Kraalkatorik all this time). Which is sort of a catch-22, unless you die and then come back.