Permastealth DE, Infinite CloneSpam Mirage, Evade Spam DD, PermaProt SB, Mobility that OOC's in >3s — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Permastealth DE, Infinite CloneSpam Mirage, Evade Spam DD, PermaProt SB, Mobility that OOC's in >3s

Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭

Care to fix any of these abominations that you created? This kind of _____ is going to kill your WvW/PvP modes real fast one day when another game with similar combat but better balance comes along. No other game would let this slide nor would any other game powercreep so hard that any of this was possible. You implemented the marked mechanic into WvW because of deadeye but did nothing to fix deadeyes and instead hurt roaming in general. A few friends can no longer do anything in WvW. Do your research as to why changes like this kill RvR games. No, we do not want to join up with the other 40 anonymous nobodies mindlessly mashing their keys - that's what raids are for.

Where did my mesmer opponents go with decoy, blink, greatsword and 3 clones maximum go? What happened to thieves having only 1 steal that you need to dodge? How about that time when damage modifiers were reasonable and not 20-40% while also being able to have multiple modifiers that stack additively. How about that time before necro axe 2 was buffed at least 4 times? Or when corrupt boon was one cast on a 40s cooldown.

How about that time before trait merge patch + ammo skill addition + cooldown reduction across the board? Those were good times.
Remember that one time ride the lightning was nerfed because the mobility was too overpowered/ridiculous, allowing for bad play to go unpunished?
I remember how all of this was before certain key devs left and how this was a time before PvE skyrocketed to the moon and raids were introduced.

Please just nerf everything.

Comments

  • juno.1840juno.1840 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ruufio.1496 said:
    Remember that one time ride the lightning was nerfed because the mobility was too overpowered/ridiculous, allowing for bad play to go unpunished?

    Oh do I... so hilarious now given all the other mobility in the game. But kitten, gotta keep Ride the Lightning nerfed!

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Was that the legit reason?

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Inoki.6048 said:
    Even ESO has better balance now, at least what some say after Murkmire. Fights are interesting, don't end immediately and with good counter play one will go down for sure while at the same time you can gear up to kill an entire unsuspecting party in one hit, so you get to enjoy everything.

    If its anything like release fights couldnt possibly end immidietly since you spent 20 minutes lagging back and forth before you came to an enemy objective.

    OP is obviously somewhat salty over meeting decent roamers in an evening and on top of that probably when they outnumber him and the matchup is already lost. Am I close? Its ok. It happens.

    All classes are power creeped and reach damage modifiers 10x over base damage of skills.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    Setting my hopes on camelot unchained or ashes of creation, for better world Vs world experience.
    If they do only a little bit better, I'll be only login in to guildwars for daily and pve raids with my friends

  • avey.4201avey.4201 Member ✭✭

    I remember my first time in WvW, I didn't know it was pvp, killed more than I died surprisingly, first few weeks random mix of pve gear and longbow ranger, then came the condi thief's, and on and on and on, funny I gave up on ranger before this whole soulbeast stuff, my ranger could've killed again though still pigeon holed, he was cute too, definitely FashionWars meta.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    All the profession you listed are roamers.

    WvW is not balanced around roaming and with every patch they try to kill roaming and especially solo roaming always further.

    Sometimes it passes hours walking around the map before I find someone else roaming like me.

    It's all a gank from zergs or havocs who chase you even 10vs1 for the kill.

    They should be fixed in sPvP, not in WvW.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Inoki.6048 said:
    Even ESO has better balance now, at least what some say after Murkmire. Fights are interesting, don't end immediately and with good counter play one will go down for sure while at the same time you can gear up to kill an entire unsuspecting party in one hit, so you get to enjoy everything.

    If its anything like release fights couldnt possibly end immidietly since you spent 20 minutes lagging back and forth before you came to an enemy objective.

    OP is obviously somewhat salty over meeting decent roamers in an evening and on top of that probably when they outnumber him and the matchup is already lost. Am I close? Its ok. It happens.

    All classes are power creeped and reach damage modifiers 10x over base damage of skills.

    It's less decent roamers, and more people who one/two shot from stealth/a +1 and think it's skill rather than the fact certain specs on soulbeast/DE/etc is overperforming damage wise. Being +1'd should be brutal, but when you're being one/two shot from full health in full trailblazers, you got to admit something is wrong here.

    There is problem with the "you got +1'd so it's l2p" mantra. Some builds can appear from nowhere (mirage, thieves ) and gank you in a second.

    The easy access some classes do have to teleports and/or Stealth makes WvW not fun to play as roamer. I understand Anet want to make this game mode "exciting" but to equate TTK (time to kill) from this game to an FPS i don't think is a good idea.

    Actually i pointed out some time ago that i don't think we need massive changes to increase the TTK . It may be enough with removing critical damage from the auto-attacks. With simply that we could get those 1 or 2 extra seconds to give to a bad situation a counter-play.
    Also it would negate the worst part of the power-creep, those 4~7K autos twice/three times per second which are unsustainable.

    And it would make even easier to balance ranger's pets and minions.

  • syszery.1592syszery.1592 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Inoki.6048 said:
    Even ESO has better balance now, at least what some say after Murkmire. Fights are interesting, don't end immediately and with good counter play one will go down for sure while at the same time you can gear up to kill an entire unsuspecting party in one hit, so you get to enjoy everything.

    If its anything like release fights couldnt possibly end immidietly since you spent 20 minutes lagging back and forth before you came to an enemy objective.

    OP is obviously somewhat salty over meeting decent roamers in an evening and on top of that probably when they outnumber him and the matchup is already lost. Am I close? Its ok. It happens.

    All classes are power creeped and reach damage modifiers 10x over base damage of skills.

    It's less decent roamers, and more people who one/two shot from stealth/a +1 and think it's skill rather than the fact certain specs on soulbeast/DE/etc is overperforming damage wise. Being +1'd should be brutal, but when you're being one/two shot from full health in full trailblazers, you got to admit something is wrong here.

    Do you have a video where someone gets a clean 1-shot on you wearing full Trailblazer? I mean even Ele has 17975 HP and 3149 armor (2173 toughness) without any trait or rune. Otherwise I won't believe this: According to wiki, the damage calculates as

    Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor)

    and with 3150 armor you are basically negating a large chunk of the opponents power. Here are the numbers I get for a deadeye (with the standard 1-shot build) and full berserkers armor, Rune of the Scholar and +5 power infusions:

    • Weapon strength Dagger (average value): 1000
    • Power: 2947 base + 250 (Sigil of Bloodlust) + 540 (Assassin's Signet) + 200 (Be Quick or Be Killed) = 3937
    • Skill-specific coefficient (Malicious Backstab): 2,4 (from behind)
    • Modifiers: Ferocious Strikes: 10%, Iron Sight: 10%, Twin Fangs: 7% (critical damage), Critical Damage: 247%, 1 Malice: 10%, 10 Vuln: 10%

    And this means without any rune:

    Damage done = 1000 * 3937 * 2,4 / 3140 * (1+0,1)^4 * 2,54 ~ 11190

    i.e., the Ele would survive with 17975-11190=6785 HP left. With Rune of Durability (and protection-proc which is guaranteed now):

    Damage done = 1000 * 3937 * 2,4 / 3315 * (1+0,1)^4 * 2,54 *0,7 ~ 7420

    So, you see: A clean 1-shot against a target in full Trailblazer is simple not possible (DJ deals even less damage at low Malice)...

    \Edit: I forget to add Sigil of Force and Sigil of Night: In the first formula this increases the damage to ~12925 so it's still not enough.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @syszery.1592 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Inoki.6048 said:
    Even ESO has better balance now, at least what some say after Murkmire. Fights are interesting, don't end immediately and with good counter play one will go down for sure while at the same time you can gear up to kill an entire unsuspecting party in one hit, so you get to enjoy everything.

    If its anything like release fights couldnt possibly end immidietly since you spent 20 minutes lagging back and forth before you came to an enemy objective.

    OP is obviously somewhat salty over meeting decent roamers in an evening and on top of that probably when they outnumber him and the matchup is already lost. Am I close? Its ok. It happens.

    All classes are power creeped and reach damage modifiers 10x over base damage of skills.

    It's less decent roamers, and more people who one/two shot from stealth/a +1 and think it's skill rather than the fact certain specs on soulbeast/DE/etc is overperforming damage wise. Being +1'd should be brutal, but when you're being one/two shot from full health in full trailblazers, you got to admit something is wrong here.

    Do you have a video where someone gets a clean 1-shot on you wearing full Trailblazer? I mean even Ele has 17975 HP and 3149 armor (2173 toughness) without any trait or rune. Otherwise I won't believe this: According to wiki, the damage calculates as

    Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor)

    and with 3150 armor you are basically negating a large chunk of the opponents power. Here are the numbers I get for a deadeye (with the standard 1-shot build) and full berserkers armor, Rune of the Scholar and +5 power infusions:

    • Weapon strength Dagger (average value): 1000
    • Power: 2947 base + 250 (Sigil of Bloodlust) + 540 (Assassin's Signet) + 200 (Be Quick or Be Killed) = 3937
    • Skill-specific coefficient (Malicious Backstab): 2,4 (from behind)
    • Modifiers: Ferocious Strikes: 10%, Iron Sight: 10%, Twin Fangs: 7% (critical damage), Critical Damage: 247%, 1 Malice: 10%, 10 Vuln: 10%

    And this means without any rune:

    Damage done = 1000 * 3937 * 2,4 / 3140 * (1+0,1)^4 * 2,54 ~ 11190

    i.e., the Ele would survive with 17975-11190=6785 HP left. With Rune of Durability (and protection-proc which is guaranteed now):

    Damage done = 1000 * 3937 * 2,4 / 3315 * (1+0,1)^4 * 2,54 *0,7 ~ 7420

    So, you see: A clean 1-shot against a target in full Trailblazer is simple not possible (DJ deals even less damage at low Malice)...

    \Edit: I forget to add Sigil of Force and Sigil of Night: In the first formula this increases the damage to ~12925 so it's still not enough.

    And who the kitten is playing full trailblazer?
    Most roamers cap armor at 2,8k it's most likely, that they are between 2,5-2,8k because of how toughness and armor works.
    Every point of toughness till you reach those 2,8k will give you % damage reduction, any toughness/armor above this threshhold, will only give flat reduction.
    So if you get hit by 10k hit.
    And let's say it's 50% dmg reduction with 2,7k armor. So you would get hit by 5k.

    If you now have 3k armor, you will get hit by 4,7k
    If you now have 3,2k armor, you will get hit by 4,5k

    That's at least as much as I know, and as much as I tested.

    But nvm.
    I lately played weaver with 2,5k armor, 16,2k health, got onehit by 17,9k malicious backstab.

    And even if it wouldn't have onehit me. When I play necro it puts me on a higher disadvantage right in the begining of the fight (picking that example, because necro has the healthpool to survive the backstab, but has horrible sustain). But I can't prevent that disadvantage.

    Not to mention, that this thief build wouldn't even care, if it didn't onehit me. It just goes back to stealth and I can't find it anymore, before he uses the next backstab, that might just hit for 8k but is still enough to easily kill me.

    and that thief is risking too much for nothing - why would they do that? most opponents you will encounter that could put up a fight wont drop to an initial backstab, so its much better to open on rifle, still hit 9/10 DJ and be out of range for most of the opponents skills for counter pressure, wich gives you time to build some malice for an actual damaging hit. a thief opening with backstab is an advantage to your necro as you can then shred it to pieces in no time, even if they go rather quickly back to stealth they need to open a gap, DR is interruptable so not safe enough and burning the often only stunbreaker shadowstep just for that opener is still stupid and will either keep them away for 50s(40s) or very vulnerable on their next hit.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • syszery.1592syszery.1592 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @syszery.1592 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Inoki.6048 said:
    Even ESO has better balance now, at least what some say after Murkmire. Fights are interesting, don't end immediately and with good counter play one will go down for sure while at the same time you can gear up to kill an entire unsuspecting party in one hit, so you get to enjoy everything.

    If its anything like release fights couldnt possibly end immidietly since you spent 20 minutes lagging back and forth before you came to an enemy objective.

    OP is obviously somewhat salty over meeting decent roamers in an evening and on top of that probably when they outnumber him and the matchup is already lost. Am I close? Its ok. It happens.

    All classes are power creeped and reach damage modifiers 10x over base damage of skills.

    It's less decent roamers, and more people who one/two shot from stealth/a +1 and think it's skill rather than the fact certain specs on soulbeast/DE/etc is overperforming damage wise. Being +1'd should be brutal, but when you're being one/two shot from full health in full trailblazers, you got to admit something is wrong here.

    Do you have a video where someone gets a clean 1-shot on you wearing full Trailblazer? I mean even Ele has 17975 HP and 3149 armor (2173 toughness) without any trait or rune. Otherwise I won't believe this: According to wiki, the damage calculates as

    Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor)

    and with 3150 armor you are basically negating a large chunk of the opponents power. Here are the numbers I get for a deadeye (with the standard 1-shot build) and full berserkers armor, Rune of the Scholar and +5 power infusions:

    • Weapon strength Dagger (average value): 1000
    • Power: 2947 base + 250 (Sigil of Bloodlust) + 540 (Assassin's Signet) + 200 (Be Quick or Be Killed) = 3937
    • Skill-specific coefficient (Malicious Backstab): 2,4 (from behind)
    • Modifiers: Ferocious Strikes: 10%, Iron Sight: 10%, Twin Fangs: 7% (critical damage), Critical Damage: 247%, 1 Malice: 10%, 10 Vuln: 10%

    And this means without any rune:

    Damage done = 1000 * 3937 * 2,4 / 3140 * (1+0,1)^4 * 2,54 ~ 11190

    i.e., the Ele would survive with 17975-11190=6785 HP left. With Rune of Durability (and protection-proc which is guaranteed now):

    Damage done = 1000 * 3937 * 2,4 / 3315 * (1+0,1)^4 * 2,54 *0,7 ~ 7420

    So, you see: A clean 1-shot against a target in full Trailblazer is simple not possible (DJ deals even less damage at low Malice)...

    \Edit: I forget to add Sigil of Force and Sigil of Night: In the first formula this increases the damage to ~12925 so it's still not enough.

    And who the kitten is playing full trailblazer?

    Ok, but the average player also doesn't have full +5 Infusions and uses Bowl of Sweet and Spicy Butternut Squash Soup with Writ of Masterful Strength :-) Also, I answered to the claim that even full Trailblazer doesn't help against big damage...

    Most roamers cap armor at 2,8k it's most likely, that they are between 2,5-2,8k because of how toughness and armor works.
    Every point of toughness till you reach those 2,8k will give you % damage reduction, any toughness/armor above this threshhold, will only give flat reduction.
    So if you get hit by 10k hit.
    And let's say it's 50% dmg reduction with 2,7k armor. So you would get hit by 5k.

    If you now have 3k armor, you will get hit by 4,7k
    If you now have 3,2k armor, you will get hit by 4,5k

    That's at least as much as I know, and as much as I tested.

    Maybe you should check the GW2 Wiki Damage. There it is outlined how the damage is computed in the game and how Power and Toughness increase/decrease the actual number.

    But nvm.
    I lately played weaver with 2,5k armor, 16,2k health, got onehit by 17,9k malicious backstab.

    And even if it wouldn't have onehit me. When I play necro it puts me on a higher disadvantage right in the begining of the fight (picking that example, because necro has the healthpool to survive the backstab, but has horrible sustain). But I can't prevent that disadvantage.

    Every deadeye with at least on brain cell just pew-pew's necro from range... So against the bad ones you just spam Spotter's Shot and against good ones you put in some efforts...

    Not to mention, that this thief build wouldn't even care, if it didn't onehit me. It just goes back to stealth and I can't find it anymore, before he uses the next backstab, that might just hit for 8k but is still enough to easily kill me.

    Yes, because no one uses his heals and blocks or tries to kite away. Hell, people usually don't even fight back at all or what? (remember, I calculated with full Berserker, i.e., the Thief doesn't even have 11k HP)

  • Kirin.7306Kirin.7306 Member ✭✭✭

    Nothing will be done at least not this year. Maybe 2020.

  • @syszery.1592 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @syszery.1592 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Inoki.6048 said:
    Even ESO has better balance now, at least what some say after Murkmire. Fights are interesting, don't end immediately and with good counter play one will go down for sure while at the same time you can gear up to kill an entire unsuspecting party in one hit, so you get to enjoy everything.

    If its anything like release fights couldnt possibly end immidietly since you spent 20 minutes lagging back and forth before you came to an enemy objective.

    OP is obviously somewhat salty over meeting decent roamers in an evening and on top of that probably when they outnumber him and the matchup is already lost. Am I close? Its ok. It happens.

    All classes are power creeped and reach damage modifiers 10x over base damage of skills.

    It's less decent roamers, and more people who one/two shot from stealth/a +1 and think it's skill rather than the fact certain specs on soulbeast/DE/etc is overperforming damage wise. Being +1'd should be brutal, but when you're being one/two shot from full health in full trailblazers, you got to admit something is wrong here.

    Do you have a video where someone gets a clean 1-shot on you wearing full Trailblazer? I mean even Ele has 17975 HP and 3149 armor (2173 toughness) without any trait or rune. Otherwise I won't believe this: According to wiki, the damage calculates as

    Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor)

    and with 3150 armor you are basically negating a large chunk of the opponents power. Here are the numbers I get for a deadeye (with the standard 1-shot build) and full berserkers armor, Rune of the Scholar and +5 power infusions:

    • Weapon strength Dagger (average value): 1000
    • Power: 2947 base + 250 (Sigil of Bloodlust) + 540 (Assassin's Signet) + 200 (Be Quick or Be Killed) = 3937
    • Skill-specific coefficient (Malicious Backstab): 2,4 (from behind)
    • Modifiers: Ferocious Strikes: 10%, Iron Sight: 10%, Twin Fangs: 7% (critical damage), Critical Damage: 247%, 1 Malice: 10%, 10 Vuln: 10%

    And this means without any rune:

    Damage done = 1000 * 3937 * 2,4 / 3140 * (1+0,1)^4 * 2,54 ~ 11190

    i.e., the Ele would survive with 17975-11190=6785 HP left. With Rune of Durability (and protection-proc which is guaranteed now):

    Damage done = 1000 * 3937 * 2,4 / 3315 * (1+0,1)^4 * 2,54 *0,7 ~ 7420

    So, you see: A clean 1-shot against a target in full Trailblazer is simple not possible (DJ deals even less damage at low Malice)...

    \Edit: I forget to add Sigil of Force and Sigil of Night: In the first formula this increases the damage to ~12925 so it's still not enough.

    And who the kitten is playing full trailblazer?

    Ok, but the average player also doesn't have full +5 Infusions and uses Bowl of Sweet and Spicy Butternut Squash Soup with Writ of Masterful Strength :-) Also, I answered to the claim that even full Trailblazer doesn't help against big damage...

    Most roamers cap armor at 2,8k it's most likely, that they are between 2,5-2,8k because of how toughness and armor works.
    Every point of toughness till you reach those 2,8k will give you % damage reduction, any toughness/armor above this threshhold, will only give flat reduction.
    So if you get hit by 10k hit.
    And let's say it's 50% dmg reduction with 2,7k armor. So you would get hit by 5k.

    If you now have 3k armor, you will get hit by 4,7k
    If you now have 3,2k armor, you will get hit by 4,5k

    That's at least as much as I know, and as much as I tested.

    Maybe you should check the GW2 Wiki Damage. There it is outlined how the damage is computed in the game and how Power and Toughness increase/decrease the actual number.

    But nvm.
    I lately played weaver with 2,5k armor, 16,2k health, got onehit by 17,9k malicious backstab.

    And even if it wouldn't have onehit me. When I play necro it puts me on a higher disadvantage right in the begining of the fight (picking that example, because necro has the healthpool to survive the backstab, but has horrible sustain). But I can't prevent that disadvantage.

    Every deadeye with at least on brain cell just pew-pew's necro from range... So against the bad ones you just spam Spotter's Shot and against good ones you put in some efforts...

    Not to mention, that this thief build wouldn't even care, if it didn't onehit me. It just goes back to stealth and I can't find it anymore, before he uses the next backstab, that might just hit for 8k but is still enough to easily kill me.

    Yes, because no one uses his heals and blocks or tries to kite away. Hell, people usually don't even fight back at all or what? (remember, I calculated with full Berserker, i.e., the Thief doesn't even have 11k HP)

    For context, I run full trailblazer on condi thief (more of an archive build than anything, it used to be very effective but not so these days). I don't run dura runes on that as that would lower damage too much, and thief has no access to protection outside of dura runes and M7. I don't have any videos as I can't play WvW and record comfortably at the same time, but the last time I took my condi build out to work on it I got hit for a 9k point blank shot, a 7k auto attack, and one wolf pack damage from those two hits did around 5k. That's 21k from two hits, from a +1, from more than 1500 range. Easily enough to kill my thief from full health, which I was at the time.

    Sure, the argument can be made that I should have spotted the guy. Sure, the guy's build is dedicated to just that burst, and he drops like a sack of spuds should someone get close. And sure, that kind of damage isn't unique to soulbeast, a deadeye can hit a condi mes for roughly 21k with a 7 malice backstab if he can get the hits in.

    That all said, it's not exactly skillful to be two shotting someone in full defensive gear with a surprise attack, now is it? Killing a glassy build like that is one thing, you deserve it for running glass and getting caught out, but what is the point in running defensive gear in the first place if damage is that high? Offence and defence across the board needs toning down and rebalancing imo.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Inoki.6048 said:
    Even ESO has better balance now, at least what some say after Murkmire. Fights are interesting, don't end immediately and with good counter play one will go down for sure while at the same time you can gear up to kill an entire unsuspecting party in one hit, so you get to enjoy everything.

    GW2 is like their latest episode - all or nothing. You either take out someone in one hit or never :joy:

    And while you summed it up well, there's just far too many bad players in this game who enjoy this power creep and mashing buttons mindlessly because even they get to score, so since nothing was properly nerfed until now, I don't think it ever will. Specs like Deadeye should never have made it to the game and yet they did and we have yet to see a redesign (never).

    Stats like armour are useless since even if you have near 4k you get one-shot, GG, thanks for that.

  • syszery.1592syszery.1592 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @syszery.1592 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @syszery.1592 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Inoki.6048 said:
    Even ESO has better balance now, at least what some say after Murkmire. Fights are interesting, don't end immediately and with good counter play one will go down for sure while at the same time you can gear up to kill an entire unsuspecting party in one hit, so you get to enjoy everything.

    If its anything like release fights couldnt possibly end immidietly since you spent 20 minutes lagging back and forth before you came to an enemy objective.

    OP is obviously somewhat salty over meeting decent roamers in an evening and on top of that probably when they outnumber him and the matchup is already lost. Am I close? Its ok. It happens.

    All classes are power creeped and reach damage modifiers 10x over base damage of skills.

    It's less decent roamers, and more people who one/two shot from stealth/a +1 and think it's skill rather than the fact certain specs on soulbeast/DE/etc is overperforming damage wise. Being +1'd should be brutal, but when you're being one/two shot from full health in full trailblazers, you got to admit something is wrong here.

    Do you have a video where someone gets a clean 1-shot on you wearing full Trailblazer? I mean even Ele has 17975 HP and 3149 armor (2173 toughness) without any trait or rune. Otherwise I won't believe this: According to wiki, the damage calculates as

    Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor)

    and with 3150 armor you are basically negating a large chunk of the opponents power. Here are the numbers I get for a deadeye (with the standard 1-shot build) and full berserkers armor, Rune of the Scholar and +5 power infusions:

    • Weapon strength Dagger (average value): 1000
    • Power: 2947 base + 250 (Sigil of Bloodlust) + 540 (Assassin's Signet) + 200 (Be Quick or Be Killed) = 3937
    • Skill-specific coefficient (Malicious Backstab): 2,4 (from behind)
    • Modifiers: Ferocious Strikes: 10%, Iron Sight: 10%, Twin Fangs: 7% (critical damage), Critical Damage: 247%, 1 Malice: 10%, 10 Vuln: 10%

    And this means without any rune:

    Damage done = 1000 * 3937 * 2,4 / 3140 * (1+0,1)^4 * 2,54 ~ 11190

    i.e., the Ele would survive with 17975-11190=6785 HP left. With Rune of Durability (and protection-proc which is guaranteed now):

    Damage done = 1000 * 3937 * 2,4 / 3315 * (1+0,1)^4 * 2,54 *0,7 ~ 7420

    So, you see: A clean 1-shot against a target in full Trailblazer is simple not possible (DJ deals even less damage at low Malice)...

    \Edit: I forget to add Sigil of Force and Sigil of Night: In the first formula this increases the damage to ~12925 so it's still not enough.

    And who the kitten is playing full trailblazer?

    Ok, but the average player also doesn't have full +5 Infusions and uses Bowl of Sweet and Spicy Butternut Squash Soup with Writ of Masterful Strength :-) Also, I answered to the claim that even full Trailblazer doesn't help against big damage...

    Most roamers cap armor at 2,8k it's most likely, that they are between 2,5-2,8k because of how toughness and armor works.
    Every point of toughness till you reach those 2,8k will give you % damage reduction, any toughness/armor above this threshhold, will only give flat reduction.
    So if you get hit by 10k hit.
    And let's say it's 50% dmg reduction with 2,7k armor. So you would get hit by 5k.

    If you now have 3k armor, you will get hit by 4,7k
    If you now have 3,2k armor, you will get hit by 4,5k

    That's at least as much as I know, and as much as I tested.

    Maybe you should check the GW2 Wiki Damage. There it is outlined how the damage is computed in the game and how Power and Toughness increase/decrease the actual number.

    But nvm.
    I lately played weaver with 2,5k armor, 16,2k health, got onehit by 17,9k malicious backstab.

    And even if it wouldn't have onehit me. When I play necro it puts me on a higher disadvantage right in the begining of the fight (picking that example, because necro has the healthpool to survive the backstab, but has horrible sustain). But I can't prevent that disadvantage.

    Every deadeye with at least on brain cell just pew-pew's necro from range... So against the bad ones you just spam Spotter's Shot and against good ones you put in some efforts...

    Not to mention, that this thief build wouldn't even care, if it didn't onehit me. It just goes back to stealth and I can't find it anymore, before he uses the next backstab, that might just hit for 8k but is still enough to easily kill me.

    Yes, because no one uses his heals and blocks or tries to kite away. Hell, people usually don't even fight back at all or what? (remember, I calculated with full Berserker, i.e., the Thief doesn't even have 11k HP)

    For context, I run full trailblazer on condi thief (more of an archive build than anything, it used to be very effective but not so these days). I don't run dura runes on that as that would lower damage too much, and thief has no access to protection outside of dura runes and M7. I don't have any videos as I can't play WvW and record comfortably at the same time, but the last time I took my condi build out to work on it I got hit for a 9k point blank shot, a 7k auto attack, and one wolf pack damage from those two hits did around 5k. That's 21k from two hits, from a +1, from more than 1500 range. Easily enough to kill my thief from full health, which I was at the time.

    Ranger is a different thing when calculating the average damage because it has different modifiers etc. I just calculated the average damage of Malicious Backstab (assuming best damage gear and food) against full Trailblazer (no traits, runes, food etc.) :) I think everyone knows that Rangers deal ridiculous damage and they actually have a bigger range than just 1500 because the trajectory of arrows is differs from other projectiles. But that's a different story...

    Sure, the argument can be made that I should have spotted the guy. Sure, the guy's build is dedicated to just that burst, and he drops like a sack of spuds should someone get close. And sure, that kind of damage isn't unique to soulbeast, a deadeye can hit a condi mes for roughly 21k with a 7 malice backstab if he can get the hits in.

    Spotting enemy players early on is usually healthy for you ;) And if you already build 5 or 7 Malice then it's no longer true that your target doesn't know that you are there. So one should expect big damage and act accordingly. If one doesn't have an answer to that then the Deadeye (or whatever) just outplayed his opponent, right?

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭

    Wer not buying enough mount skins and outfits to get a balance sadly

  • You guys need to remember that this game, just like any other MMO, is a PvE game. The game is balanced for PvE. So to expect competitive integrity in patches in a game where PvE is the dominant game mode is kind of silly, and this game has been out since what, 2012? You guys still haven't figured this out? Come on. It's fine if you have fun playing WvW or PvP. So do I. But I have zero expectations for player versus player driven change and I don't take the game seriously. Just like any other MMO, Guild Wars 2 will have classes that overperform in player v player game modes because they're perfectly fine in PvE. Accept it, meme it up in EBG because that's all WvW is now, and out cheese the cheese.

    Xterra/Marqeese[Ark]

  • @syszery.1592 said;
    Ranger is a different thing when calculating the average damage because it has different modifiers etc. I just calculated the average damage of Malicious Backstab (assuming best damage gear and food) against full Trailblazer (no traits, runes, food etc.) :) I think everyone knows that Rangers deal ridiculous damage and they actually have a bigger range than just 1500 because the trajectory of arrows is differs from other projectiles. But that's a different story...

    Spotting enemy players early on is usually healthy for you ;) And if you already build 5 or 7 Malice then it's no longer true that your target doesn't know that you are there. So one should expect big damage and act accordingly. If one doesn't have an answer to that then the Deadeye (or whatever) just outplayed his opponent, right?

    Yeah, definitely. Having to build malice for the massive spike is part of the intended counterplay in my opinion, the problem is that through power creep people only really need to build malice vs tanky opponents, as anything glassy will just explode without protection. And yeah, soulbeast is a particularly bad example for one shot spikes, but it also doesn't appear to be going anywhere, patch after patch. ANet has created a meta where only tanky boon builds and glass stealth nuke builds really thrive when it comes to roaming, and honestly as a guy who likes making builds, it's boring. Might just be me, but I can't be the only one thinking this, you know?

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.

  • saye.9304saye.9304 Member ✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    All the profession you listed are roamers.

    WvW is not balanced around roaming and with every patch they try to kill roaming and especially solo roaming always further.

    Sometimes it passes hours walking around the map before I find someone else roaming like me.

    It's all a gank from zergs or havocs who chase you even 10vs1 for the kill.

    They should be fixed in sPvP, not in WvW.

    yes true wvw is mass pvp BUT here is the problem, i am playing wvw almost every day on sfr server in the morning (eu time) and most of the times there is no commander, and even during prime time you end up in long queue, because there is only one commander, so yeah in the perfect world with millions of players you get commanders and zerg all the time, but we all know that is not true, and whether we like it or not, we end up roaming a lot, and op is right class balance must be fixed.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @saye.9304 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    All the profession you listed are roamers.

    WvW is not balanced around roaming and with every patch they try to kill roaming and especially solo roaming always further.

    Sometimes it passes hours walking around the map before I find someone else roaming like me.

    It's all a gank from zergs or havocs who chase you even 10vs1 for the kill.

    They should be fixed in sPvP, not in WvW.

    yes true wvw is mass pvp BUT here is the problem, i am playing wvw almost every day on sfr server in the morning (eu time) and most of the times there is no commander, and even during prime time you end up in long queue, because there is only one commander, so yeah in the perfect world with millions of players you get commanders and zerg all the time, but we all know that is not true, and whether we like it or not, we end up roaming a lot, and op is right class balance must be fixed.

    When I roam sometimes I spend hours walking in the map and there is nobody... only pve people just came for the daily and I usually ignore them.
    In all the other cases I get constantly ganked 1v2 1vs3 1vs4 1vs5 and they chase you minutes until they get the kill on you.

    I'm playing condi mirage right now because I am forced to, and it's the profession I have the best odds to win a 1vs2 or even a 1vs3 sometimes, or simply disengage if people trash gank me.

    Roaming is all a gank, or you play something cheesy or you die.

    Before I fought and won a 1vs3 against 2 spellbreakers and 1 reaper, they attacked me in the first place ganking me and after I won they added me to the party and started offending my mother and calling coward noob. But I was alone and they were 3 players who tried to win a stupid 3vs1 and I am the coward?

    I repeat WvW should not be balanced about roamers, but as group and zerg fights and professions.
    To be honest I dont see how an hammer rev (spamming buttons on the keyboard at 1200 range for over 10k damage per hit) is less cancer than deadeye or condi mirage or boonbeast, but okay...

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    yeah, freaken toxic in WvW... especially perma de and infinite mirage

    perma de, reveal them, they dodge back and immediately goes back into stealth in 5 sec with a single button, while my skill is stuck on 10sec cooldown, and another 2 sec try to recast it; well, im dead before that 10 sec cd even finishes

    totally ridiculous how many pops up, you destroy them with AoE, immediately more pops up

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    To be honest I dont see how an hammer rev (spamming buttons on the keyboard at 1200 range for over 10k damage per hit) is less cancer than deadeye or condi mirage or boonbeast, but okay...

    hammers are easily dodgeable due to slow cast time, plenty of classes can out range 1200 (hard capped) easily

    scourage sand can be activated miles away
    mesmer/chrono/mirage are keep on the move anyway, clone shatter can be activate then teleported outside the 1200 range, clones will continue to chase the target
    ranger/druid/sb, no need to say, their longbow's actual range can go further than 1200 range
    staff ele/tempest/weaver, fireball can go further than 1200 range

    any melee class can pretty much clean up hammer rev easily once get into melee range, and isnt too hard since all hammer skills have pretty slow cast time, thus predictable

    hammer revs should not be going solo, they are pretty weak

    but zerg fights, there are now plenty of group buffs to absorb the damage with PoF elite specs

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just fyi for those complaining about the "infinite clones"...alot (not all but a good portion) of mirage players run macros for their clone generation to maximize the output. I know personally a few (couple in EU and at least 1 or 2 in NA).

    Just throwing that out there as an fyi.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/mc_celestia
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The last time I checked revenant it could use two weaponssets at once.

    Hammer rev is not weak running around solo. Well if you roam on the zerg build, which is basically a no sustain PvE build, then yes it is weak, but that's not a hammer issue.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2019

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    alot (not all but a good portion) of mirage players run macros for their clone generation to maximize the output.

    Alot (not all but a good portion) of non-mirages also thinks mirages are cheating just because they got killed by them so theres that too.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    alot (not all but a good portion) of mirage players run macros for their clone generation to maximize the output.

    Alot (not all but a good portion) of non-mirages also thinks mirages are cheating just because they got killed by them so theres that too.

    Well then....Our info covers each other so it all must be true :trollface:

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/mc_celestia
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • SoV.5139SoV.5139 Member ✭✭✭

    You guys all cried about the bunker META years ago and demanded high risk/reward play and power builds and such, and this is what happens.
    I'll take the bunker META of 2014 any day of the week vs what gw2 has now.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    The last time I checked revenant it could use two weaponssets at once.

    Hammer rev is not weak running around solo. Well if you roam on the zerg build, which is basically a no sustain PvE build, then yes it is weak, but that's not a hammer issue.

    i'm not saying they are weak in general, i'm just saying hammer rev isn't exactly suited for roaming and their hammer hits are easily neglectable regardless of roaming or group

    and you probably shouldnt be using hammer for roaming, sword/sword + staff or sword/sword + mace/axe are better options

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Just fyi for those complaining about the "infinite clones"...alot (not all but a good portion) of mirage players run macros for their clone generation to maximize the output. I know personally a few (couple in EU and at least 1 or 2 in NA).

    Just throwing that out there as an fyi.

    pretty sure that's bannable according to anet's T&C using macros

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited 2:43AM

    @SoV.5139 said:
    You guys all cried about the bunker META years ago and demanded high risk/reward play and power builds and such, and this is what happens.
    I'll take the bunker META of 2014 any day of the week vs what gw2 has now.

    That's why I want Anet to bring back Damage Types they had in GW1, https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Damage_type

    making it impossible to bunker against everything

    I reckon if the devs really tries, they should be able to figure out how to implement it easily.

    my thoughts

    • assign a damage type to each skill
    • add a brand new socket to armor, let's just assume they call it 'protection runes', which will give you like 25% protection against certain damage type, 0% protection for another, and -25% against the opposite type; the simplest could be reduce elemental damage by 25%, take extra 25% from physical damage, and no change from other forms of damage

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @crepuscular.9047 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Just fyi for those complaining about the "infinite clones"...alot (not all but a good portion) of mirage players run macros for their clone generation to maximize the output. I know personally a few (couple in EU and at least 1 or 2 in NA).

    Just throwing that out there as an fyi.

    pretty sure that's bannable according to anet's T&C using macros

    Oh it is. Like hackers, they also dont care.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/mc_celestia
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

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