Reaper / Scourge romer-smallscale gear — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Reaper / Scourge romer-smallscale gear

Hi folks!

I've decided to play necro profession for every game mode, but I think I'll be focused more on solo roam and smallscale (2-5 friends). My question is about gearing Reaper and Scourge.

I've tried both elites in sPvP and checked out some WvW builds: Vampire GS (sPvP in MetaBattle), Shadefire (same) and other bunch of builds. Each one with their own stats and I'm kinda lost. What stats should I look for on both e-specs? I like power Reaper (I love Vampire build from sPvP) and condi/heal in Scourge.

Comments

  • gavyne.6847gavyne.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    You should rethink going with necro for solo roaming. It's not pretty.

  • Droontar.1542Droontar.1542 Member ✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    @gavyne.6847 said:
    You should rethink going with necro for solo roaming. It's not pretty.

    Maybe it's not the best, or even close to Mesmer/Thief/Ranger, but I like it's gameplay/lore/looking... So, I don't care not playing a meta build :)

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019

    @Droontar.1542 said:
    Hi folks!

    I've decided to play necro profession for every game mode, but I think I'll be focused more on solo roam and smallscale (2-5 friends). My question is about gearing Reaper and Scourge.

    I've tried both elites in sPvP and checked out some WvW builds: Vampire GS (sPvP in MetaBattle), Shadefire (same) and other bunch of builds. Each one with their own stats and I'm kinda lost. What stats should I look for on both e-specs? I like power Reaper (I love Vampire build from sPvP) and condi/heal in Scourge.

    I'm quite surprised that you haven't gotten a build suggestion yet as we've got quite a few helpful and dedicated necro WvW players lurking on the forums.
    I guess the reason could be as Gavyne pointed out, it ain't gonna be pretty.
    That said, since you have the passion to be one of us, I got some suggestions.

    For Reaper

    • Stats: Diviners gear = Power (major) + Boons duration (major) + Precision (minor) + Ferocity (minor)
    • Runes: Speed Runes
    • Sigils: Cleansing + Energy

    Try the new Diviners stat gear.
    You can probably get it through exotic armor WvW reward tracks if you don't PvE.
    I heard from the King of Reaper roaming, King Solovet (currently on GOM), that Diviners is working out well for him with Speed Runes.
    The boon duration helps keep up the quickness, might, stab and swiftness boons and makes him a killing machine.
    He plays almost exclusively Reaper for roaming and if he says the build works, then I would believe him.
    You will want to take spectral walk and wurm though which will help a lot with your kiting as it is much needed in solo roaming / small scale.
    No amount of defense is going to save you as a Reaper if you are hard focused by the enemy group so it is better to go high damage and as mobile as you can be.
    Also cleansing sigils and energy sigils on one or both weapons will help a ton.
    They will help a lot with your condi management and survival.

    For Scourge

    I'm not really sure because...I've not really tried it much as it is hard-countered by too many things...
    If you don't mind roaming near camps/towers and essentially areas that allow you to LOS and kite though...
    I have met one roamer who played a hybrid sustain healing build though, I think it might have been Marshal stats.
    Low consistent damage with a lot of sustain. He would likely have taken the Blood Magic traitline.
    There are also Scourge campers who run full hybrid damage or pure power damage and do rather okay as long as they are in areas that can LOS.
    Again I would suggest taking spectral walk, wurm and portal because mobility is king in solo/small scale roaming.

    For Core Vanilla Necro

    I suggest watching this guy. Love his build variety.

    Oh and if you see the on-going ranking polls for most OP classes in WvW roaming (all things considered) and actual 1 vs 1 combat strength, necros are bottom in both polls lol...so be prepared for a rough ride.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65609/rank-all-the-classes-for-most-op-wvw-1-vs-1-impromptu-fights-beginning-2019-external-poll

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Like Eremite said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAndRnc0A91g12AG3A0biFcBjqL0GeWxXxvYZE6qFAOAA-jJxHAB7XGol9HU+JAAwpAAA

    Probably your best choice for roaming. Easy to maintain permanent quickness which boosts all your slow casting stuff: wurm, heal, GS...

    (I posted a pvp build, because I am typing on a phone and so had less buttons to press.)

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Droontar.1542 said:

    @gavyne.6847 said:
    You should rethink going with necro for solo roaming. It's not pretty.

    Maybe it's not the best, or even close to Mesmer/Thief/Ranger, but I like it's gameplay/lore/looking... So, I don't care not playing a meta build :)

    The issue he brings up goes beyond not being meta. Solo Necromancer doesn't compete. It is pretty much the worst (for all but the most skilled players) when it comes to solo roaming. MesmerThief/Ranger are the least of your worries. It's at its strongest when it has additional people there to help cover its weaknesses. You may be able to eek out a victory or two against a newb or two but against anyone with even a minor level of skill, you will more often than not die. Alone you can expect to mostly just kill caravans as you likely not going to be able to kill all the camp defenders (odds of survival start dropping fast once you move beyond 1v1). You will pretty much be an easy kill for a lot of folks. Necromancer isn't a duelist (i.e. not built for 1v1) which is what you want to be if you are solo roaming. Necromancer is a +1 fighter and performs best when other players are drawing the attention of the folks you are fighting.

    You are free to play what you want but just know up front that if you solo you will lose most encounters. Your best bet is to travel with other players if you actually want to do more than respawn.

  • @Dace.8173 said:

    @Droontar.1542 said:

    @gavyne.6847 said:
    You should rethink going with necro for solo roaming. It's not pretty.

    Maybe it's not the best, or even close to Mesmer/Thief/Ranger, but I like it's gameplay/lore/looking... So, I don't care not playing a meta build :)

    The issue he brings up goes beyond not being meta. Solo Necromancer doesn't compete. It is pretty much the worst (for all but the most skilled players) when it comes to solo roaming. MesmerThief/Ranger are the least of your worries. It's at its strongest when it has additional people there to help cover its weaknesses. You may be able to eek out a victory or two against a newb or two but against anyone with even a minor level of skill, you will more often than not die. Alone you can expect to mostly just kill caravans as you likely not going to be able to kill all the camp defenders (odds of survival start dropping fast once you move beyond 1v1). You will pretty much be an easy kill for a lot of folks. Necromancer isn't a duelist (i.e. not built for 1v1) which is what you want to be if you are solo roaming. Necromancer is a +1 fighter and performs best when other players are drawing the attention of the folks you are fighting.

    You are free to play what you want but just know up front that if you solo you will lose most encounters. Your best bet is to travel with other players if you actually want to do more than respawn.

    100% correct. +1.

  • @Dace.8173 said:

    @Droontar.1542 said:

    @gavyne.6847 said:
    You should rethink going with necro for solo roaming. It's not pretty.

    Maybe it's not the best, or even close to Mesmer/Thief/Ranger, but I like it's gameplay/lore/looking... So, I don't care not playing a meta build :)

    The issue he brings up goes beyond not being meta. Solo Necromancer doesn't compete. It is pretty much the worst (for all but the most skilled players) when it comes to solo roaming. MesmerThief/Ranger are the least of your worries. It's at its strongest when it has additional people there to help cover its weaknesses. You may be able to eek out a victory or two against a newb or two but against anyone with even a minor level of skill, you will more often than not die. Alone you can expect to mostly just kill caravans as you likely not going to be able to kill all the camp defenders (odds of survival start dropping fast once you move beyond 1v1). You will pretty much be an easy kill for a lot of folks. Necromancer isn't a duelist (i.e. not built for 1v1) which is what you want to be if you are solo roaming. Necromancer is a +1 fighter and performs best when other players are drawing the attention of the folks you are fighting.

    You are free to play what you want but just know up front that if you solo you will lose most encounters. Your best bet is to travel with other players if you actually want to do more than respawn.

    Thanks to each one of you!

    I think I'm more screwed than I taught I was. Resuming, If I go with a small group it's fine (I'm not always solo, most of the time I play with 1-3 Mirages+1holo+1SB) and if I'm alone I will die a lot and not too much "useful" to my "server" (and getting frustrated by thieves/mirage/soulbeast...?).

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As long as you do not plan on roaming WvW solo, there are many options. A small group can cover Necro's weaknesses and take advantage of its strengths.

    For example, Superior Rune of the Reaper can seriously inconvenience an opposing group and there are many other offensive support builds. You will be vulnerable but so is an arrow cart and you will be much more effective as mobile siege.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Droontar.1542 said:

    @Dace.8173 said:

    @Droontar.1542 said:

    @gavyne.6847 said:
    You should rethink going with necro for solo roaming. It's not pretty.

    Maybe it's not the best, or even close to Mesmer/Thief/Ranger, but I like it's gameplay/lore/looking... So, I don't care not playing a meta build :)

    The issue he brings up goes beyond not being meta. Solo Necromancer doesn't compete. It is pretty much the worst (for all but the most skilled players) when it comes to solo roaming. MesmerThief/Ranger are the least of your worries. It's at its strongest when it has additional people there to help cover its weaknesses. You may be able to eek out a victory or two against a newb or two but against anyone with even a minor level of skill, you will more often than not die. Alone you can expect to mostly just kill caravans as you likely not going to be able to kill all the camp defenders (odds of survival start dropping fast once you move beyond 1v1). You will pretty much be an easy kill for a lot of folks. Necromancer isn't a duelist (i.e. not built for 1v1) which is what you want to be if you are solo roaming. Necromancer is a +1 fighter and performs best when other players are drawing the attention of the folks you are fighting.

    You are free to play what you want but just know up front that if you solo you will lose most encounters. Your best bet is to travel with other players if you actually want to do more than respawn.

    Thanks to each one of you!

    I think I'm more screwed than I taught I was. Resuming, If I go with a small group it's fine (I'm not always solo, most of the time I play with 1-3 Mirages+1holo+1SB) and if I'm alone I will die a lot and not too much "useful" to my "server" (and getting frustrated by thieves/mirage/soulbeast...?).

    Yeah, dieing a lot frustrates most players. Necromancer can be good and can be a lot of fun to play in WvW. But as I often say, play to the strengths of your profession. If you do that you will be able to succeed more times than you fail. Reaper's strength lies in being a +1 fighter and also slowing down mobility. If you're not the focus of attacks from other players you can do a lot of damage in Reaper Shroud. Slowing down the mobility of others also makes the job of your other squadmates easier. Scourge is great with AOEs and spreading conditions. When paired with a Firebrand you become very hard to kill and very frustrating to fight against. When part of a zerg and paired with many Scourges and Firebrands you are capable of swinging the tide of battle. Don't think that you can't play Necromancer in WvW as it really can shine there. Just play to the strengths you have.

    The only time you are really screwed is when you try to play Necromancer in a way it was not built to play as, such as a duelist. With luck that will change. With luck, Necromancer will get a dueling Elite to fill in that gap. Until then, however, your best bet for fun is to hang with friends.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @Droontar.1542 said:
    Hi folks!

    I've decided to play necro profession for every game mode, but I think I'll be focused more on solo roam and smallscale (2-5 friends). My question is about gearing Reaper and Scourge.

    I've tried both elites in sPvP and checked out some WvW builds: Vampire GS (sPvP in MetaBattle), Shadefire (same) and other bunch of builds. Each one with their own stats and I'm kinda lost. What stats should I look for on both e-specs? I like power Reaper (I love Vampire build from sPvP) and condi/heal in Scourge.

    I'm quite surprised that you haven't gotten a build suggestion yet as we've got quite a few helpful and dedicated necro WvW players lurking on the forums.
    I guess the reason could be as Gavyne pointed out, it ain't gonna be pretty.
    That said, since you have the passion to be one of us, I got some suggestions.

    For Reaper

    • Stats: Diviners gear = Power (major) + Boons duration (major) + Precision (minor) + Ferocity (minor)
    • Runes: Speed Runes
    • Sigils: Cleansing + Energy

    Try the new Diviners stat gear.
    You can probably get it through exotic armor WvW reward tracks if you don't PvE.
    I heard from the King of Reaper roaming, King Solovet (currently on GOM), that Diviners is working out well for him with Speed Runes.
    The boon duration helps keep up the quickness, might, stab and swiftness boons and makes him a killing machine.
    He plays almost exclusively Reaper for roaming and if he says the build works, then I would believe him.
    You will want to take spectral walk and wurm though which will help a lot with your kiting as it is much needed in solo roaming / small scale.
    No amount of defense is going to save you as a Reaper if you are hard focused by the enemy group so it is better to go high damage and as mobile as you can be.
    Also cleansing sigils and energy sigils on one or both weapons will help a ton.
    They will help a lot with your condi management and survival.

    For Scourge

    I'm not really sure because...I've not really tried it much as it is hard-countered by too many things...
    If you don't mind roaming near camps/towers and essentially areas that allow you to LOS and kite though...
    I have met one roamer who played a hybrid sustain healing build though, I think it might have been Marshal stats.
    Low consistent damage with a lot of sustain. He would likely have taken the Blood Magic traitline.
    There are also Scourge campers who run full hybrid damage or pure power damage and do rather okay as long as they are in areas that can LOS.
    Again I would suggest taking spectral walk, wurm and portal because mobility is king in solo/small scale roaming.

    For Core Vanilla Necro

    I suggest watching this guy. Love his build variety.

    Oh and if you see the on-going ranking polls for most OP classes in WvW roaming (all things considered) and actual 1 vs 1 combat strength, necros are bottom in both polls lol...so be prepared for a rough ride.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65609/rank-all-the-classes-for-most-op-wvw-1-vs-1-impromptu-fights-beginning-2019-external-poll

    Wait...there’s a diviners set? Where!

  • @KrHome.1920 said:
    Like Eremite said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAndRnc0A91g12AG3A0biFcBjqL0GeWxXxvYZE6qFAOAA-jJxHAB7XGol9HU+JAAwpAAA

    Probably your best choice for roaming. Easy to maintain permanent quickness which boosts all your slow casting stuff: wurm, heal, GS...

    (I posted a pvp build, because I am typing on a phone and so had less buttons to press.)

    Ya but when I posted essentially the same build for both spvp and WVW months ago everyone thought it was trash?

    Anyway, speed runes are a good choice. However if you want to stand a chance against mesmer and condition roamers, go for death magic over spite, anti toxin runes, and fried dumpling food.

  • Dace.8173Dace.8173 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @Droontar.1542 said:
    Hi folks!

    I've decided to play necro profession for every game mode, but I think I'll be focused more on solo roam and smallscale (2-5 friends). My question is about gearing Reaper and Scourge.

    I've tried both elites in sPvP and checked out some WvW builds: Vampire GS (sPvP in MetaBattle), Shadefire (same) and other bunch of builds. Each one with their own stats and I'm kinda lost. What stats should I look for on both e-specs? I like power Reaper (I love Vampire build from sPvP) and condi/heal in Scourge.

    I'm quite surprised that you haven't gotten a build suggestion yet as we've got quite a few helpful and dedicated necro WvW players lurking on the forums.
    I guess the reason could be as Gavyne pointed out, it ain't gonna be pretty.
    That said, since you have the passion to be one of us, I got some suggestions.

    For Reaper

    • Stats: Diviners gear = Power (major) + Boons duration (major) + Precision (minor) + Ferocity (minor)
    • Runes: Speed Runes
    • Sigils: Cleansing + Energy

    Try the new Diviners stat gear.
    You can probably get it through exotic armor WvW reward tracks if you don't PvE.
    I heard from the King of Reaper roaming, King Solovet (currently on GOM), that Diviners is working out well for him with Speed Runes.
    The boon duration helps keep up the quickness, might, stab and swiftness boons and makes him a killing machine.
    He plays almost exclusively Reaper for roaming and if he says the build works, then I would believe him.
    You will want to take spectral walk and wurm though which will help a lot with your kiting as it is much needed in solo roaming / small scale.
    No amount of defense is going to save you as a Reaper if you are hard focused by the enemy group so it is better to go high damage and as mobile as you can be.
    Also cleansing sigils and energy sigils on one or both weapons will help a ton.
    They will help a lot with your condi management and survival.

    For Scourge

    I'm not really sure because...I've not really tried it much as it is hard-countered by too many things...
    If you don't mind roaming near camps/towers and essentially areas that allow you to LOS and kite though...
    I have met one roamer who played a hybrid sustain healing build though, I think it might have been Marshal stats.
    Low consistent damage with a lot of sustain. He would likely have taken the Blood Magic traitline.
    There are also Scourge campers who run full hybrid damage or pure power damage and do rather okay as long as they are in areas that can LOS.
    Again I would suggest taking spectral walk, wurm and portal because mobility is king in solo/small scale roaming.

    For Core Vanilla Necro

    I suggest watching this guy. Love his build variety.

    Oh and if you see the on-going ranking polls for most OP classes in WvW roaming (all things considered) and actual 1 vs 1 combat strength, necros are bottom in both polls lol...so be prepared for a rough ride.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65609/rank-all-the-classes-for-most-op-wvw-1-vs-1-impromptu-fights-beginning-2019-external-poll

    Wait...there’s a diviners set? Where!

    The last patch made Diviner a normal attribute set that you can get. So you can now craft it, once you get the proper recipes. The new weapons (blooddragon I beleive) are all Diviner stat weapons.

    Patch Notes are your friend.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    Like Eremite said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAndRnc0A91g12AG3A0biFcBjqL0GeWxXxvYZE6qFAOAA-jJxHAB7XGol9HU+JAAwpAAA

    Probably your best choice for roaming. Easy to maintain permanent quickness which boosts all your slow casting stuff: wurm, heal, GS...

    (I posted a pvp build, because I am typing on a phone and so had less buttons to press.)

    Ya but when I posted essentially the same build for both spvp and WVW months ago everyone thought it was trash?

    Anyway, speed runes are a good choice. However if you want to stand a chance against mesmer and condition roamers, go for death magic over spite, anti toxin runes, and fried dumpling food.

    Well it is trash^^ I was theorycrafting when I wrote my last post and now have tested it for a few hours. I thought is was decent until I ran into the first fotm builds like condi mirage, power holo and s/d thief that all wrecked me. Not fun at all.

    I am back to my onslaught sustain build which is doing fine against any encounter and considering the new diviner's gear, the build has gotten plenty of new variants:

    The base marauder version for running around solo:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAndRnMbCV3g12AG3A0biFvBb6iFAiVxJwHYGkKCECGUA-j1xHQBMUJ430H4h9H+nyPAcKAU2TA4dq/EA4A48m38zDc+5nf+5n33nf+5nf+5nf+5nHA-w

    The marauder/crusader duo version with a deadeye friend (I become focused instantly as he is in stealth 80% of the fight, so I need more defense against direct damage):
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAndRnMbCV3g12AG3A0biFvBjKCECGUxJwHYGc6iFAiVA-j1xHQBuT9HvpPAAnCAVs/gyeCA/T53CVCGA4A48m38zDc+5nf+5n33nf+5nf+5nf+5nHA-w

    The niche diviner's boon duration version for perma quickness:
    /I can't link it as the gw2skills database hasn't been updated yet. It uses the same weapons, skills and traits as the previous builds, but full diviner's gear and pack rune for 85% boon duration and a high ferocity uptime to compensate the low precision.

    Diviner's without additional crit chance (sigil, rune, fury, curses minor trait) is complete trash. The damage is ultra low even with perma quickness. The wurm and 66% swiftness gimmicks are just for fancy youtube videos but not for serious gameplay.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    Like Eremite said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAndRnc0A91g12AG3A0biFcBjqL0GeWxXxvYZE6qFAOAA-jJxHAB7XGol9HU+JAAwpAAA

    Probably your best choice for roaming. Easy to maintain permanent quickness which boosts all your slow casting stuff: wurm, heal, GS...

    (I posted a pvp build, because I am typing on a phone and so had less buttons to press.)

    Ya but when I posted essentially the same build for both spvp and WVW months ago everyone thought it was trash?

    Anyway, speed runes are a good choice. However if you want to stand a chance against mesmer and condition roamers, go for death magic over spite, anti toxin runes, and fried dumpling food.

    Well it is trash^^ I was theorycrafting when I wrote my last post and now have tested it for a few hours. I thought is was decent until I ran into the first fotm builds like condi mirage, power holo and s/d thief that all wrecked me. Not fun at all.

    I am back to my onslaught sustain build which is doing fine against any encounter and considering the new diviner's gear, the build has gotten plenty of new variants:

    The base marauder version for running around solo:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAndRnMbCV3g12AG3A0biFvBb6iFAiVxJwHYGkKCECGUA-j1xHQBMUJ430H4h9H+nyPAcKAU2TA4dq/EA4A48m38zDc+5nf+5n33nf+5nf+5nf+5nHA-w

    The marauder/crusader duo version with a deadeye friend (I become focused instantly as he is in stealth 80% of the fight, so I need more defense against direct damage):
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAndRnMbCV3g12AG3A0biFvBjKCECGUxJwHYGc6iFAiVA-j1xHQBuT9HvpPAAnCAVs/gyeCA/T53CVCGA4A48m38zDc+5nf+5n33nf+5nf+5nf+5nHA-w

    The niche diviner's boon duration version for perma quickness:
    /I can't link it as the gw2skills database hasn't been updated yet. It uses the same weapons, skills and traits as the previous builds, but full diviner's gear and pack rune for 85% boon duration and a high ferocity uptime to compensate the low precision.

    Diviner's without additional crit chance (sigil, rune, ferocity, curses minor trait) is complete trash. The damage is ultra low even with perma quickness. The wurm and 66% swiftness gimmicks are just for fancy youtube videos but not for serious gameplay.

    I haven’t lost a single duel against any reaper I’ve met so far in WVW. The build with antitoxin has literally 0 trouble against Condi thief, or any Condi build for that matter. Condi Mesmer is the only build it can’t face tank. Yes it can even face tank scourge.

    Diviners is cool... but full diviners for WVW is a mistake. There’s reasons why, which I won’t get into, but it has to deal with what traitlines you are forced to take simply because of the lesser precision on the set.

    Flock...I get why you are running that, and to you it might make sense.,but it is ridiculously outclassed by every rune people have put forth here, like speed and antitoxin.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    The crusader/marauder/pack build is superior to the marauder/flock build as long as fury doesn't get stripped.

    Flock can be replaced by any rune in that build as the build is extremely flexible. I like the synergy with YSIM! as this skill has a low cooldown and can benefit a lot from the rune. Everything the blood magic traitline offers benefits too. And last but not least 10% health is good too as the build focusses on heavy healing and shroud damage mitigating (25k life force!). Usually it's not very smart to stack hitpoints to such high amounts (31k), but this build is capable of healing up that pool again. It's one of the very few builds that necro has access to that allow sustained fights instead of the "burst or die" playstyle reaper is often criticized for.

    Speed rune is trash: holo, thief, mirage, soulbeast, spellbreaker... they all will chase you down. Everything that outruns you without the rune does it too with the rune. The rune is a waste. It makes no difference in real world scenarios. When it was released I thought it might be good. It is not!

    Btw.:
    I did watch the linked video above of that core necro player. Desolation is full of really good roamers and NOT A SINGLE ONE of them can be found in this video because they would have destroyed him and they wouldn't care whether he would run speed rune. And that disrespectful jumping all the time... but that's a different story.

  • I wouldn't let the view that necro is bottom tier for solo bother you. While in a duel, yeah its definitely bottom tier there are several necro specs that will mug 95% of the people you run into in WvW, and the other 5% are experienced roamers on the top tier roaming specs..and while you will certainly lose a few fights here and there, most of the time even against the 5% you can play dirty and abuse a cliff, target painter, water, line of sight or a variety of other mechanics that necros excel at to pull a win. Try a lot of different builds, find what works best against each spec for you and depending on how the day is going, use the build that handles the majority of people the best.

    Personally I swap between about 10 variants of a full zerker core necro, 3 or 4 variants of a full grieving terrormancer, super glass reaper, and even scourge from time to time. I much prefer to depend on my damage paired with taking every movement option I can get my hands on. Do enough damage and you can typically pull off a win if you play right. Just make sure that wurm is placed before that fight starts somewhere the enemy can't see it.

    Thing about necro builds, everyone has something different that works for them. I ABSOLUTELY HATE anything that's not glass, but I've also been roaming on a full glass necro specs since the beta. That being said, you may like something entirely different..use what works. I would suggest having some fun yoloing on zerker necro though, you will learn REALLY quickly what not to get hit by, and when to bait someone to a cliff or uneven terrain.

    And when you start getting triggered, equip a white zerker axe, max damage traits with reaper, and absolutely no other weapons, armor or trinkets, and see how many fights you can win. You will be horrified how many fights you can still win. For extra fun, you can equip any gear you get from player kills or buy one white piece after a player kill.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    The crusader/marauder/pack build is superior to the marauder/flock build as long as fury doesn't get stripped.

    Flock can be replaced by any rune in that build as the build is extremely flexible. I like the synergy with YSIM! as this skill has a low cooldown and can benefit a lot from the rune. Everything the blood magic traitline offers benefits too. And last but not least 10% health is good too as the build focusses on heavy healing and shroud damage mitigating (25k life force!). Usually it's not very smart to stack hitpoints to such high amounts (31k), but this build is capable of healing up that pool again. It's one of the very few builds that necro has access to that allow sustained fights instead of the "burst or die" playstyle reaper is often criticized for.

    Speed rune is trash: holo, thief, mirage, soulbeast, spellbreaker... they all will chase you down. Everything that outruns you without the rune does it too with the rune. The rune is a waste. It makes no difference in real world scenarios. When it was released I thought it might be good. It is not!

    Btw.:
    I did watch the linked video above of that core necro player. Desolation is full of really good roamers and NOT A SINGLE ONE of them can be found in this video because they would have destroyed him and they wouldn't care whether he would run speed rune. And that disrespectful jumping all the time... but that's a different story.

    1) you’ll have to explain how pack runes are any good post nerf. The boons you gain from this Rune only occur upon entering combat. Thus it’s benefit in a sustained fight is essentially useless. You have No real way to sustain more than 66% crit chance in shroud which drastically lowers damage output. You can’t output much vulnerability either which is nessasary for decimate Defenses (edit: the build doesn’t have decimate defenses anyway. I fail to see how this build can go beyond 66% crit in shroud after 10 seconds.)

    2) as for the synergy with Ysim and flock, the maximum value you get is 1k heal every 12 seconds... verses antitoxin which has the potential value of mitigating thousands upon thousands of condition damage constantly

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    The crusader/marauder/pack build is superior to the marauder/flock build as long as fury doesn't get stripped.

    Flock can be replaced by any rune in that build as the build is extremely flexible. I like the synergy with YSIM! as this skill has a low cooldown and can benefit a lot from the rune. Everything the blood magic traitline offers benefits too. And last but not least 10% health is good too as the build focusses on heavy healing and shroud damage mitigating (25k life force!). Usually it's not very smart to stack hitpoints to such high amounts (31k), but this build is capable of healing up that pool again. It's one of the very few builds that necro has access to that allow sustained fights instead of the "burst or die" playstyle reaper is often criticized for.

    Speed rune is trash: holo, thief, mirage, soulbeast, spellbreaker... they all will chase you down. Everything that outruns you without the rune does it too with the rune. The rune is a waste. It makes no difference in real world scenarios. When it was released I thought it might be good. It is not!

    Btw.:
    I did watch the linked video above of that core necro player. Desolation is full of really good roamers and NOT A SINGLE ONE of them can be found in this video because they would have destroyed him and they wouldn't care whether he would run speed rune. And that disrespectful jumping all the time... but that's a different story.

    1) you’ll have to explain how pack runes are any good post nerf. The boons you gain from this Rune only occur upon entering combat. Thus it’s benefit in a sustained fight is essentially useless. You have No real way to sustain more than 66% crit chance in shroud which drastically lowers damage output. You can’t output much vulnerability either which is nessasary for decimate Defenses (edit: the build doesn’t have decimate defenses anyway. I fail to see how this build can go beyond 66% crit in shroud after 10 seconds.)

    2) as for the synergy with Ysim and flock, the maximum value you get is 1k heal every 12 seconds... verses antitoxin which has the value of mitigating thousands upon thousands of condition damage constantly

    Not to mention that only mirages run condition builds right now.
    Especially with cleansing sigil (even if it's only on one weaponsets) and bloodmagic condition hate, you got plenty to kill scourges pretty easily.

    What I don't like is the 0 toughness in this build. As there are almost only power rangers and thiefes running around (mirage could either be power or Condi)
    And also power revs, warriors, guards, engis.

    But I guess that's personal preferences.

    Also tried vision sigils and go full defensive with like almost full Valkyrie. Didn't like it for roaming, good to farm backliners of a zerg.

    And I usually only run one cleansing sigil. Especially with a build that doesn't run spite or chilling victory in reaper I use one sigil that generates might. Be it battle or strength depends on the build I use and on the purpose of the build.
    And if I'm playing in a group or not.

    Even though lately I'm also playing BiP, to save the additional sigil slot. But that's really play style dependant and on what you are fighting.

    Against holos and warriors you might want an additional stunbreak, like Wurm or yaaw.
    Against heavy Condi pressure you might want well of power, plague signet or "suffer".

    Also pretty useful against warriors and guards: ncsy
    Against heavy range pressure, corrosive poison cloud can safe you.

    And against boonheavy enemies you might want to use corrupt boon. Especially against other reapers, because 90% of them runs the spite build, and it's funny to see them go in shroud, instant pop their 3 for stability, start to whirl, and then getting feared instantly, because you corrupted their stab.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    The crusader/marauder/pack build is superior to the marauder/flock build as long as fury doesn't get stripped.

    Flock can be replaced by any rune in that build as the build is extremely flexible. I like the synergy with YSIM! as this skill has a low cooldown and can benefit a lot from the rune. Everything the blood magic traitline offers benefits too. And last but not least 10% health is good too as the build focusses on heavy healing and shroud damage mitigating (25k life force!). Usually it's not very smart to stack hitpoints to such high amounts (31k), but this build is capable of healing up that pool again. It's one of the very few builds that necro has access to that allow sustained fights instead of the "burst or die" playstyle reaper is often criticized for.

    Speed rune is trash: holo, thief, mirage, soulbeast, spellbreaker... they all will chase you down. Everything that outruns you without the rune does it too with the rune. The rune is a waste. It makes no difference in real world scenarios. When it was released I thought it might be good. It is not!

    Btw.:
    I did watch the linked video above of that core necro player. Desolation is full of really good roamers and NOT A SINGLE ONE of them can be found in this video because they would have destroyed him and they wouldn't care whether he would run speed rune. And that disrespectful jumping all the time... but that's a different story.

    1) you’ll have to explain how pack runes are any good post nerf. The boons you gain from this Rune only occur upon entering combat. Thus it’s benefit in a sustained fight is essentially useless. You have No real way to sustain more than 66% crit chance in shroud which drastically lowers damage output. You can’t output much vulnerability either which is nessasary for decimate Defenses (edit: the build doesn’t have decimate defenses anyway. I fail to see how this build can go beyond 66% crit in shroud after 10 seconds.)

    That's not how the rune works! The effect re-applies every 30s while you are in combat. The base duration is 10s (as pack itself already boosts boon duration by 15%). You get 10s of fury every 30s. If you run full diviner you get 16s of fury every 30s. Even when fury drops you have 35% crit chance outside and 68% crit chance in shroud. Spectral Armor and 2600 armor will grant you a high shroud uptime to maintain crit chance while fury is on cooldown.

    2) as for the synergy with Ysim and flock, the maximum value you get is 1k heal every 12 seconds... verses antitoxin which has the potential value of mitigating thousands upon thousands of condition damage constantly

    You have two heals in that build. YSIM! heals for 6,5k every ~15s and blood is power heals for about 6k + 5x 600 siphon every 20s. The healing power slightly boosts your blood magic siphoning.

    I suggest you try the build to see what healing values it offers.

    And why would I want to run antitoxin on a build that converts conditions into life force? /edit: I agree that the rune is nice (!), but better placed in other builds. I would definitely prefer it over speed rune to be able to replace a few condi cleanses with alternate utility. I have a stack of 6 in my bank account to use it when I need it (free swapping on legendary gear).

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    And against boonheavy enemies you might want to use corrupt boon. Especially against other reapers, because 90% of them runs the spite build, and it's funny to see them go in shroud, instant pop their 3 for stability, start to whirl, and then getting feared instantly, because you corrupted their stab.

    You are both theorycrafting! This build (the flock rune version) is especially strong against other reapers as they can not corrupt might into weakness on you because you can avoid applying might to yourself (which spite reapers can not!) while you can easily corrupt their might via axe3 and gs4. On top of that you can easily outheal other reapers. I said it already: this build is designed for sustained fights which is a counter to what burst reapers are strong at.

    Additionally some simple math: on 25k life force with a regen of 2k (8%) from spectral armor you will win every toe to toe shroud fight against a burst reaper. You don't even need to kite his shroud.

    Subject "boonheavy foes": On reaper you have two options to play the game: you either go for corrupts which limits your sustain a lot. You are the ultimate bunker cracker then but you also need support because you are slow and immobile. The alternative is to go for sustain and drop the corruptions. At this point you have to find a balance what builds you still want to be capable of killing. The build I use kills evasion weavers and support firebrands in the long run (it takes some time but is doable) while not being too squishy to be a faceroll for the average bursty thief/soulbeast/revenant/guardian. I don't like to have only hardcounters and facerolls on reaper.

    If you want to get to the point where your roaming opponent has to work for his kill (instead of just kiting you to death) you need to go for sustain.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    double post

  • @KrHome.1920 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    The crusader/marauder/pack build is superior to the marauder/flock build as long as fury doesn't get stripped.

    Flock can be replaced by any rune in that build as the build is extremely flexible. I like the synergy with YSIM! as this skill has a low cooldown and can benefit a lot from the rune. Everything the blood magic traitline offers benefits too. And last but not least 10% health is good too as the build focusses on heavy healing and shroud damage mitigating (25k life force!). Usually it's not very smart to stack hitpoints to such high amounts (31k), but this build is capable of healing up that pool again. It's one of the very few builds that necro has access to that allow sustained fights instead of the "burst or die" playstyle reaper is often criticized for.

    Speed rune is trash: holo, thief, mirage, soulbeast, spellbreaker... they all will chase you down. Everything that outruns you without the rune does it too with the rune. The rune is a waste. It makes no difference in real world scenarios. When it was released I thought it might be good. It is not!

    Btw.:
    I did watch the linked video above of that core necro player. Desolation is full of really good roamers and NOT A SINGLE ONE of them can be found in this video because they would have destroyed him and they wouldn't care whether he would run speed rune. And that disrespectful jumping all the time... but that's a different story.

    1) you’ll have to explain how pack runes are any good post nerf. The boons you gain from this Rune only occur upon entering combat. Thus it’s benefit in a sustained fight is essentially useless. You have No real way to sustain more than 66% crit chance in shroud which drastically lowers damage output. You can’t output much vulnerability either which is nessasary for decimate Defenses (edit: the build doesn’t have decimate defenses anyway. I fail to see how this build can go beyond 66% crit in shroud after 10 seconds.)

    That's not how the rune works! The effect re-applies every 30s while you are in combat. The base duration is 10s (as pack itself already boosts boon duration by 15%). You get 10s of fury every 30s. If you run full diviner you get 16s of fury every 30s. Even when fury drops you have 35% crit chance outside and 68% crit chance in shroud. Spectral Armor and 2600 armor will grant you a high shroud uptime to maintain crit chance while fury is on cooldown.

    2) as for the synergy with Ysim and flock, the maximum value you get is 1k heal every 12 seconds... verses antitoxin which has the potential value of mitigating thousands upon thousands of condition damage constantly

    You have two heals in that build. YSIM! heals for 6,5k every ~15s and blood is power heals for about 6k + 5x 600 siphon every 20s. The healing power slightly boosts your blood magic siphoning.

    I suggest you try the build to see what healing values it offers.

    And why would I want to run antitoxin on a build that converts conditions into life force? /edit: I agree that the rune is nice (!), but better placed in other builds. I would definitely prefer it over speed rune to be able to replace a few condi cleanses with alternate utility. I have a stack of 6 in my bank account to use it when I need it (free swapping on legendary gear).

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    And against boonheavy enemies you might want to use corrupt boon. Especially against other reapers, because 90% of them runs the spite build, and it's funny to see them go in shroud, instant pop their 3 for stability, start to whirl, and then getting feared instantly, because you corrupted their stab.

    You are both theorycrafting! This build (the flock rune version) is especially strong against other reapers as they can not corrupt might into weakness on you because you can avoid applying might to yourself (which spite reapers can not!) while you can easily corrupt their might via axe3 and gs4. On top of that you can easily outheal other reapers. I said it already: this build is designed for sustained fights which is a counter to what burst reapers are strong at.

    Additionally some simple math: on 25k life force with a regen of 2k (8%) from spectral armor you will win every toe to toe shroud fight against a burst reaper. You don't even need to kite his shroud.

    I’m pretty sure that’s not how pack works. It usto work like that prior to the Rune/Sigil update. But both Rune of Rage and Pack runes were changed to now only apply to you upon entering combat.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    The crusader/marauder/pack build is superior to the marauder/flock build as long as fury doesn't get stripped.

    Flock can be replaced by any rune in that build as the build is extremely flexible. I like the synergy with YSIM! as this skill has a low cooldown and can benefit a lot from the rune. Everything the blood magic traitline offers benefits too. And last but not least 10% health is good too as the build focusses on heavy healing and shroud damage mitigating (25k life force!). Usually it's not very smart to stack hitpoints to such high amounts (31k), but this build is capable of healing up that pool again. It's one of the very few builds that necro has access to that allow sustained fights instead of the "burst or die" playstyle reaper is often criticized for.

    Speed rune is trash: holo, thief, mirage, soulbeast, spellbreaker... they all will chase you down. Everything that outruns you without the rune does it too with the rune. The rune is a waste. It makes no difference in real world scenarios. When it was released I thought it might be good. It is not!

    Btw.:
    I did watch the linked video above of that core necro player. Desolation is full of really good roamers and NOT A SINGLE ONE of them can be found in this video because they would have destroyed him and they wouldn't care whether he would run speed rune. And that disrespectful jumping all the time... but that's a different story.

    1) you’ll have to explain how pack runes are any good post nerf. The boons you gain from this Rune only occur upon entering combat. Thus it’s benefit in a sustained fight is essentially useless. You have No real way to sustain more than 66% crit chance in shroud which drastically lowers damage output. You can’t output much vulnerability either which is nessasary for decimate Defenses (edit: the build doesn’t have decimate defenses anyway. I fail to see how this build can go beyond 66% crit in shroud after 10 seconds.)

    That's not how the rune works! The effect re-applies every 30s while you are in combat. The base duration is 10s (as pack itself already boosts boon duration by 15%). You get 10s of fury every 30s. If you run full diviner you get 16s of fury every 30s. Even when fury drops you have 35% crit chance outside and 68% crit chance in shroud. Spectral Armor and 2600 armor will grant you a high shroud uptime to maintain crit chance while fury is on cooldown.

    2) as for the synergy with Ysim and flock, the maximum value you get is 1k heal every 12 seconds... verses antitoxin which has the potential value of mitigating thousands upon thousands of condition damage constantly

    You have two heals in that build. YSIM! heals for 6,5k every ~15s and blood is power heals for about 6k + 5x 600 siphon every 20s. The healing power slightly boosts your blood magic siphoning.

    I suggest you try the build to see what healing values it offers.

    And why would I want to run antitoxin on a build that converts conditions into life force? /edit: I agree that the rune is nice (!), but better placed in other builds. I would definitely prefer it over speed rune to be able to replace a few condi cleanses with alternate utility. I have a stack of 6 in my bank account to use it when I need it (free swapping on legendary gear).

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    And against boonheavy enemies you might want to use corrupt boon. Especially against other reapers, because 90% of them runs the spite build, and it's funny to see them go in shroud, instant pop their 3 for stability, start to whirl, and then getting feared instantly, because you corrupted their stab.

    You are both theorycrafting! This build (the flock rune version) is especially strong against other reapers as they can not corrupt might into weakness on you because you can avoid applying might to yourself (which spite reapers can not!) while you can easily corrupt their might via axe3 and gs4. On top of that you can easily outheal other reapers. I said it already: this build is designed for sustained fights which is a counter to what burst reapers are strong at.

    Additionally some simple math: on 25k life force with a regen of 2k (8%) from spectral armor you will win every toe to toe shroud fight against a burst reaper. You don't even need to kite his shroud.

    I’m pretty sure that’s not how pack works. It usto work like that prior to the Rune/Sigil update. But both Rune of Rage and Pack runes were changed to now only apply to you upon entering combat.

    No! I use that rune on a daily basis. It applies might/fury/swiftness every 30s.

    And this information was even somewhere in the patch notes.

    Found it:

    November 26, 2018
    The duration of the boons granted by the 6-piece bonus of this rune set has been reduced from 10 seconds to 8 seconds. The cooldown has been returned to its previous duration of 30 seconds, and it will now trigger while in combat rather than upon entering combat.

    Btw.: This info is inaccurate. It triggers on entering and while in combat on a 30s cooldown. So when you enter combat it will trigger. When you then leave combat after 20s and re-enter combat immediately, it will trigger again not right on entering the second time but after 10s in combat.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    No! I use that rune on a daily basis. It applies might/fury/swiftness every 30s.

    And this information was even somewhere in the patch notes.

    Found it:

    November 26, 2018
    The duration of the boons granted by the 6-piece bonus of this rune set has been reduced from 10 seconds to 8 seconds. The cooldown has been returned to its previous duration of 30 seconds, and it will now trigger while in combat rather than upon entering combat.

    Btw.: This info is inaccurate. It triggers on entering and while in combat on a 30s cooldown. So when you enter combat it will trigger. When you then leave combat after 20s and re-enter combat immediately, it will trigger again not right on entering the second time but after 10s in combat.

    Okay. Still, even with max boon duration, 15+ seconds of fury downtime for your build is no bueno. Especially if it gets stripped. Your basically hitting like a wet noodle for 15 - 30 seconds. In terms of theory crafting, this is poor setup because your goal should be to aim for combinations that give you the highest possible value for the traits/runes/sigils/food that you invest in. Why invest in a rune that provides you benefits for >25% of the time when you could say, use rune of the thief and have the nearly the same benefit 100% of the time (Rune of thief adds 300 precision which is about 15% crit chance) + additional benefits like 10% more damage and being unstrippable?

    What i'm really saying here is that i've theorycrafted the living daylights out of boonmancing, and your build is just a fraction of the true potential of boonmancing on reaper. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for people theory crafting, and creating their own unique mix of builds. But it's funny to me how now all of a sudden people are playing diviners, when just 2 months ago they are calling it trash...and then on top of it havn't properly thought about how to make a build with diviners in order to gain the most benefit from boon duration. Pack Runes are a GREAT example of how people aren't building for it in the right way.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    The crusader/marauder/pack build is superior to the marauder/flock build as long as fury doesn't get stripped.

    Flock can be replaced by any rune in that build as the build is extremely flexible. I like the synergy with YSIM! as this skill has a low cooldown and can benefit a lot from the rune. Everything the blood magic traitline offers benefits too. And last but not least 10% health is good too as the build focusses on heavy healing and shroud damage mitigating (25k life force!). Usually it's not very smart to stack hitpoints to such high amounts (31k), but this build is capable of healing up that pool again. It's one of the very few builds that necro has access to that allow sustained fights instead of the "burst or die" playstyle reaper is often criticized for.

    Speed rune is trash: holo, thief, mirage, soulbeast, spellbreaker... they all will chase you down. Everything that outruns you without the rune does it too with the rune. The rune is a waste. It makes no difference in real world scenarios. When it was released I thought it might be good. It is not!

    Btw.:
    I did watch the linked video above of that core necro player. Desolation is full of really good roamers and NOT A SINGLE ONE of them can be found in this video because they would have destroyed him and they wouldn't care whether he would run speed rune. And that disrespectful jumping all the time... but that's a different story.

    1) you’ll have to explain how pack runes are any good post nerf. The boons you gain from this Rune only occur upon entering combat. Thus it’s benefit in a sustained fight is essentially useless. You have No real way to sustain more than 66% crit chance in shroud which drastically lowers damage output. You can’t output much vulnerability either which is nessasary for decimate Defenses (edit: the build doesn’t have decimate defenses anyway. I fail to see how this build can go beyond 66% crit in shroud after 10 seconds.)

    That's not how the rune works! The effect re-applies every 30s while you are in combat. The base duration is 10s (as pack itself already boosts boon duration by 15%). You get 10s of fury every 30s. If you run full diviner you get 16s of fury every 30s. Even when fury drops you have 35% crit chance outside and 68% crit chance in shroud. Spectral Armor and 2600 armor will grant you a high shroud uptime to maintain crit chance while fury is on cooldown.

    As far as I tested it (went to a mob, hit it once, waited 30seconds), it doesn't work like that. It only applied the boons when entering the fight or when I got outfight. Was it buggy when I tested pack rune?

    2) as for the synergy with Ysim and flock, the maximum value you get is 1k heal every 12 seconds... verses antitoxin which has the potential value of mitigating thousands upon thousands of condition damage constantly

    You have two heals in that build. YSIM! heals for 6,5k every ~15s and blood is power heals for about 6k + 5x 600 siphon every 20s. The healing power slightly boosts your blood magic siphoning.

    I suggest you try the build to see what healing values it offers.

    And why would I want to run antitoxin on a build that converts conditions into life force? /edit: I agree that the rune is nice (!), but better placed in other builds. I would definitely prefer it over speed rune to be able to replace a few condi cleanses with alternate utility. I have a stack of 6 in my bank account to use it when I need it (free swapping on legendary gear).

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    And against boonheavy enemies you might want to use corrupt boon. Especially against other reapers, because 90% of them runs the spite build, and it's funny to see them go in shroud, instant pop their 3 for stability, start to whirl, and then getting feared instantly, because you corrupted their stab.

    You are both theorycrafting! This build (the flock rune version) is especially strong against other reapers as they can not corrupt might into weakness on you because you can avoid applying might to yourself (which spite reapers can not!) while you can easily corrupt their might via axe3 and gs4. On top of that you can easily outheal other reapers. I said it already: this build is designed for sustained fights which is a counter to what burst reapers are strong at.

    The problem is: almost no fight is sustain heavy right now.
    Everyone is playing some kind of burst spec.
    Sure the build might be nice for fights against other reapers, but there's like 1 necro in 100 roamers, so it's not really worth running something like that isn't it?
    Maybe to run away and get into a tower, but then I'd play Wurm instead of BiP for example.

    Additionally some simple math: on 25k life force with a regen of 2k (8%) from spectral armor you will win every toe to toe shroud fight against a burst reaper. You don't even need to kite his shroud.

    I’m pretty sure that’s not how pack works. It usto work like that prior to the Rune/Sigil update. But both Rune of Rage and Pack runes were changed to now only apply to you upon entering combat.

    No! I use that rune on a daily basis. It applies might/fury/swiftness every 30s.

    And this information was even somewhere in the patch notes.

    Found it:

    November 26, 2018
    The duration of the boons granted by the 6-piece bonus of this rune set has been reduced from 10 seconds to 8 seconds. The cooldown has been returned to its previous duration of 30 seconds, and it will now trigger while in combat rather than upon entering combat.

    Btw.: This info is inaccurate. It triggers on entering and while in combat on a 30s cooldown. So when you enter combat it will trigger. When you then leave combat after 20s and re-enter combat immediately, it will trigger again not right on entering the second time but after 10s in combat.

  • Anyone tried a scourge build with "blood bond"? It's a power scourge build with a lot of sustain, sounds pretty fun. Could also make a condi varient I guess.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    Anyone tried a scourge build with "blood bond"? It's a power scourge build with a lot of sustain, sounds pretty fun. Could also make a condi varient I guess.

    Hm... Blood bond is pretty meh on power builds I think. Even if you play BiP (I don't like using BiP without boon/might duration)
    Well it's a better option than ritual of life I guess, and most of the times better than the movement speed (depends on build).

    I'm currently testing this build, switch out the grieving stats for diviners gear. (The website doesn't have diviners gear implemented yet)

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAR3dnc0AVbit2AG3A0biFcBTqH01CbQXtAwBI+K+FLjA-jlSGQBA4gAYgnAA0uAAJRJX9Uhoc6Ggx+DFV9FqoEsgKHIFg5S2A-w

    Worked just fine yesterday, might be a bit to much might generation though.

    I'm at ~35% boon duration. And pack rune seems to be not bugged anymore. Works just fine. Also I might switch some of the marauders gear I to Valkyrie, because of decimate defenses.
    Didn't look that much into how many vulnerability stacks, enemies have on average.

    Going to test this build further. for some enemies I took reapers protection to get extra protection uptime (especially warriors) and for boonbeasts and revenants I took corrupt boon. But I didn't find many skilled players.
    Hope this will get better this evening, when I'm transferring to another, more populated server.

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2019

    I'm pretty pleased to see people finally understanding the value of crusader gear. It really is great. I'm not gonna talk WvW (not my main mode) but for harder PvE without organized group, crusader reaper is the bomb (tanking, damage, healing), especially with necro's ability to get free hp (vital persistance, rune with hp like durability rune or vampirism). You can put some divner's gear in there as well as some suggested for extra quickness uptime outta shroud.

    For scourge i had most success with Trailblazer or Apothecary/Settler stats. First one is already tanky and it gives you very solid condi damage. Second choice is for less damage but maximum sustain. Be sure to trait parasitic contagion as this trait is very powerful vs packs of enemies on scourge.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2019

    I experimented a bit with antitoxin rune, since some people here seem to be big fans of it, but I still think the rune is useless in my my sustain build above.

    So an alternative (more offensive) build, for antitoxin rune fans:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhF6kZTocTs2Gw4GgeTsgLYRbt81HIuKuFLjQXtAwBA-j1xHQBA4UA8PlfvT9HGqEkX7P8N9BK7JAEA4A48m38zDc+5nf+5n33nf+5nf+5nf+5nHA-w

    Roamed a few hours on it and had good success.

    But like for every reaper build: Avoid open field thief/soulbeast fights! When there are LOS options, you can beat everything on that build as the boon corrupt and crit chance is insane at the cost of range, which is poor.

  • @KrHome.1920 said:
    I experimented a bit with antitoxin rune, since some people here seem to be big fans of it, but I still think the rune is useless in my my sustain build above.

    So an alternative (more offensive) build, for antitoxin rune fans:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhF6kZTocTs2Gw4GgeTsgLYRbt81HIuKuFLjQXtAwBA-j1xHQBA4UA8PlfvT9HGqEkX7P8N9BK7JAEA4A48m38zDc+5nf+5n33nf+5nf+5nf+5nHA-w

    Roamed a few hours on it and had good success.

    But like for every reaper build: Avoid open field thief/soulbeast fights! When there are LOS options, you can beat everything on that build as the boon corrupt and crit chance is insane at the cost of range, which is poor.

    Okay, this build is much better though out. You have near 100% crit chance, you have GOOD condition cleansing, damage and corrupts.

    Only thing you lack is Reliable damage mitigation. Personally I would just drop Maurader gear. Invest in captains trinkets and either Assassin gear or commanders, depending on how comfortable you are at sitting perfectly at 100% crit chance or less than that. But this would just be personal choice. If ur cool with hanging around in 1k toughness and light armor than that’s cool. But if u want to take on soul beasts, toughness is the way to go.

    Now even though I think anti toxin can be used better (its most effective synergy is with death magic and spectral walk) you should be okay on Condi cleansing. However, your taking suffer, which imo could be used for a different utility. Of course because of how you made this build you put a dependence on your utilities to cleanse your conditions rather than your traitlines.

    Lastly, If you want to take advantage of quickness, having utilities and heal spells with cash times benefit more than it does from taking spells with no cast times, ei; shouts.

    Feast of corruption makes for more useful application with quickness after leaving shroud, likewise a utility with cast times also take advantage of this.

    Just my thoughts. But all and all a good build with good theory crafting.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    I experimented a bit with antitoxin rune, since some people here seem to be big fans of it, but I still think the rune is useless in my my sustain build above.

    So an alternative (more offensive) build, for antitoxin rune fans:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhF6kZTocTs2Gw4GgeTsgLYRbt81HIuKuFLjQXtAwBA-j1xHQBA4UA8PlfvT9HGqEkX7P8N9BK7JAEA4A48m38zDc+5nf+5n33nf+5nf+5nf+5nHA-w

    Roamed a few hours on it and had good success.

    But like for every reaper build: Avoid open field thief/soulbeast fights! When there are LOS options, you can beat everything on that build as the boon corrupt and crit chance is insane at the cost of range, which is poor.

    Okay, this build is much better though out. You have near 100% crit chance, you have GOOD condition cleansing, damage and corrupts.

    You will only need Condi cleanse against mirages. But wasting the rune for only one build that it counters? Not worth it I think.

    Only thing you lack is Reliable damage mitigation. Personally I would just drop Maurader gear. Invest in captains trinkets and either Assassin gear or commanders, depending on how comfortable you are at sitting perfectly at 100% crit chance or less than that. But this would just be personal choice. If ur cool with hanging around in 1k toughness and light armor than that’s cool. But if u want to take on soul beasts, toughness is the way to go.

    I have to agree here. No toughness is very hard to play on, especially with all those power classes.

    Now even though I think anti toxin can be used better (its most effective synergy is with death magic and spectral walk) you should be okay on Condi cleansing. However, your taking suffer, which imo could be used for a different utility. Of course because of how you made this build you put a dependence on your utilities to cleanse your conditions rather than your traitlines.

    Lastly, If you want to take advantage of quickness, having utilities and heal spells with cash times benefit more than it does from taking spells with no cast times, ei; shouts.

    Feast of corruption makes for more useful application with quickness after leaving shroud, likewise a utility with cast times also take advantage of this.

    Just my thoughts. But all and all a good build with good theory crafting.

    The problem you'll encounter here, you have to calculate, using all Abilities without quickness.

    Because max duration of quickness outside of shroud would be ~3seconds. But using all utility skills in that time makes you very predictable and easy to kill

  • @Nimon.7840 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    I experimented a bit with antitoxin rune, since some people here seem to be big fans of it, but I still think the rune is useless in my my sustain build above.

    So an alternative (more offensive) build, for antitoxin rune fans:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhF6kZTocTs2Gw4GgeTsgLYRbt81HIuKuFLjQXtAwBA-j1xHQBA4UA8PlfvT9HGqEkX7P8N9BK7JAEA4A48m38zDc+5nf+5n33nf+5nf+5nf+5nHA-w

    Roamed a few hours on it and had good success.

    But like for every reaper build: Avoid open field thief/soulbeast fights! When there are LOS options, you can beat everything on that build as the boon corrupt and crit chance is insane at the cost of range, which is poor.

    Okay, this build is much better though out. You have near 100% crit chance, you have GOOD condition cleansing, damage and corrupts.

    You will only need Condi cleanse against mirages. But wasting the rune for only one build that it counters? Not worth it I think.

    Only thing you lack is Reliable damage mitigation. Personally I would just drop Maurader gear. Invest in captains trinkets and either Assassin gear or commanders, depending on how comfortable you are at sitting perfectly at 100% crit chance or less than that. But this would just be personal choice. If ur cool with hanging around in 1k toughness and light armor than that’s cool. But if u want to take on soul beasts, toughness is the way to go.

    I have to agree here. No toughness is very hard to play on, especially with all those power classes.

    Now even though I think anti toxin can be used better (its most effective synergy is with death magic and spectral walk) you should be okay on Condi cleansing. However, your taking suffer, which imo could be used for a different utility. Of course because of how you made this build you put a dependence on your utilities to cleanse your conditions rather than your traitlines.

    Lastly, If you want to take advantage of quickness, having utilities and heal spells with cash times benefit more than it does from taking spells with no cast times, ei; shouts.

    Feast of corruption makes for more useful application with quickness after leaving shroud, likewise a utility with cast times also take advantage of this.

    Just my thoughts. But all and all a good build with good theory crafting.

    The problem you'll encounter here, you have to calculate, using all Abilities without quickness.

    Because max duration of quickness outside of shroud would be ~3seconds. But using all utility skills in that time makes you very predictable and easy to kill

    Ya, the build he has no boon duration so that’s why the shouts are okay

    And there’s plenty of Condi specs. Don’t forget scourge. Power is more prevalent but Condi cleanse is always good to have even in abundance.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    I experimented a bit with antitoxin rune, since some people here seem to be big fans of it, but I still think the rune is useless in my my sustain build above.

    So an alternative (more offensive) build, for antitoxin rune fans:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhF6kZTocTs2Gw4GgeTsgLYRbt81HIuKuFLjQXtAwBA-j1xHQBA4UA8PlfvT9HGqEkX7P8N9BK7JAEA4A48m38zDc+5nf+5n33nf+5nf+5nf+5nHA-w

    Roamed a few hours on it and had good success.

    But like for every reaper build: Avoid open field thief/soulbeast fights! When there are LOS options, you can beat everything on that build as the boon corrupt and crit chance is insane at the cost of range, which is poor.

    Okay, this build is much better though out. You have near 100% crit chance, you have GOOD condition cleansing, damage and corrupts.

    You will only need Condi cleanse against mirages. But wasting the rune for only one build that it counters? Not worth it I think.

    Only thing you lack is Reliable damage mitigation. Personally I would just drop Maurader gear. Invest in captains trinkets and either Assassin gear or commanders, depending on how comfortable you are at sitting perfectly at 100% crit chance or less than that. But this would just be personal choice. If ur cool with hanging around in 1k toughness and light armor than that’s cool. But if u want to take on soul beasts, toughness is the way to go.

    I have to agree here. No toughness is very hard to play on, especially with all those power classes.

    Now even though I think anti toxin can be used better (its most effective synergy is with death magic and spectral walk) you should be okay on Condi cleansing. However, your taking suffer, which imo could be used for a different utility. Of course because of how you made this build you put a dependence on your utilities to cleanse your conditions rather than your traitlines.

    Lastly, If you want to take advantage of quickness, having utilities and heal spells with cash times benefit more than it does from taking spells with no cast times, ei; shouts.

    Feast of corruption makes for more useful application with quickness after leaving shroud, likewise a utility with cast times also take advantage of this.

    Just my thoughts. But all and all a good build with good theory crafting.

    The problem you'll encounter here, you have to calculate, using all Abilities without quickness.

    Because max duration of quickness outside of shroud would be ~3seconds. But using all utility skills in that time makes you very predictable and easy to kill

    Ya, the build he has no boon duration so that’s why the shouts are okay

    And there’s plenty of Condi specs. Don’t forget scourge. Power is more prevalent but Condi cleanse is always good to have even in abundance.

    I played against many scourges (Condi). And I did so with just spectral walk and consume conditions. Easy wins.

    And I really never meet any other Condi roamers than mirages.
    Well Condi thief and maybe ranger but they are very very rare

  • @Nimon.7840 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    I experimented a bit with antitoxin rune, since some people here seem to be big fans of it, but I still think the rune is useless in my my sustain build above.

    So an alternative (more offensive) build, for antitoxin rune fans:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhF6kZTocTs2Gw4GgeTsgLYRbt81HIuKuFLjQXtAwBA-j1xHQBA4UA8PlfvT9HGqEkX7P8N9BK7JAEA4A48m38zDc+5nf+5n33nf+5nf+5nf+5nHA-w

    Roamed a few hours on it and had good success.

    But like for every reaper build: Avoid open field thief/soulbeast fights! When there are LOS options, you can beat everything on that build as the boon corrupt and crit chance is insane at the cost of range, which is poor.

    Okay, this build is much better though out. You have near 100% crit chance, you have GOOD condition cleansing, damage and corrupts.

    You will only need Condi cleanse against mirages. But wasting the rune for only one build that it counters? Not worth it I think.

    Only thing you lack is Reliable damage mitigation. Personally I would just drop Maurader gear. Invest in captains trinkets and either Assassin gear or commanders, depending on how comfortable you are at sitting perfectly at 100% crit chance or less than that. But this would just be personal choice. If ur cool with hanging around in 1k toughness and light armor than that’s cool. But if u want to take on soul beasts, toughness is the way to go.

    I have to agree here. No toughness is very hard to play on, especially with all those power classes.

    Now even though I think anti toxin can be used better (its most effective synergy is with death magic and spectral walk) you should be okay on Condi cleansing. However, your taking suffer, which imo could be used for a different utility. Of course because of how you made this build you put a dependence on your utilities to cleanse your conditions rather than your traitlines.

    Lastly, If you want to take advantage of quickness, having utilities and heal spells with cash times benefit more than it does from taking spells with no cast times, ei; shouts.

    Feast of corruption makes for more useful application with quickness after leaving shroud, likewise a utility with cast times also take advantage of this.

    Just my thoughts. But all and all a good build with good theory crafting.

    The problem you'll encounter here, you have to calculate, using all Abilities without quickness.

    Because max duration of quickness outside of shroud would be ~3seconds. But using all utility skills in that time makes you very predictable and easy to kill

    Ya, the build he has no boon duration so that’s why the shouts are okay

    And there’s plenty of Condi specs. Don’t forget scourge. Power is more prevalent but Condi cleanse is always good to have even in abundance.

    I played against many scourges (Condi). And I did so with just spectral walk and consume conditions. Easy wins.

    And I really never meet any other Condi roamers than mirages.
    Well Condi thief and maybe ranger but they are very very rare

    But realistically you can’t beat a Condi Mesmer without antitoxin. With anti toxin you can 1v1 and win without really getting into too much trouble.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2019

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    I experimented a bit with antitoxin rune, since some people here seem to be big fans of it, but I still think the rune is useless in my my sustain build above.

    So an alternative (more offensive) build, for antitoxin rune fans:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhF6kZTocTs2Gw4GgeTsgLYRbt81HIuKuFLjQXtAwBA-j1xHQBA4UA8PlfvT9HGqEkX7P8N9BK7JAEA4A48m38zDc+5nf+5n33nf+5nf+5nf+5nHA-w

    Roamed a few hours on it and had good success.

    But like for every reaper build: Avoid open field thief/soulbeast fights! When there are LOS options, you can beat everything on that build as the boon corrupt and crit chance is insane at the cost of range, which is poor.

    Okay, this build is much better though out. You have near 100% crit chance, you have GOOD condition cleansing, damage and corrupts.

    You will only need Condi cleanse against mirages. But wasting the rune for only one build that it counters? Not worth it I think.

    Only thing you lack is Reliable damage mitigation. Personally I would just drop Maurader gear. Invest in captains trinkets and either Assassin gear or commanders, depending on how comfortable you are at sitting perfectly at 100% crit chance or less than that. But this would just be personal choice. If ur cool with hanging around in 1k toughness and light armor than that’s cool. But if u want to take on soul beasts, toughness is the way to go.

    I have to agree here. No toughness is very hard to play on, especially with all those power classes.

    Now even though I think anti toxin can be used better (its most effective synergy is with death magic and spectral walk) you should be okay on Condi cleansing. However, your taking suffer, which imo could be used for a different utility. Of course because of how you made this build you put a dependence on your utilities to cleanse your conditions rather than your traitlines.

    Lastly, If you want to take advantage of quickness, having utilities and heal spells with cash times benefit more than it does from taking spells with no cast times, ei; shouts.

    Feast of corruption makes for more useful application with quickness after leaving shroud, likewise a utility with cast times also take advantage of this.

    Just my thoughts. But all and all a good build with good theory crafting.

    The problem you'll encounter here, you have to calculate, using all Abilities without quickness.

    Because max duration of quickness outside of shroud would be ~3seconds. But using all utility skills in that time makes you very predictable and easy to kill

    Ya, the build he has no boon duration so that’s why the shouts are okay

    And there’s plenty of Condi specs. Don’t forget scourge. Power is more prevalent but Condi cleanse is always good to have even in abundance.

    I played against many scourges (Condi). And I did so with just spectral walk and consume conditions. Easy wins.

    And I really never meet any other Condi roamers than mirages.
    Well Condi thief and maybe ranger but they are very very rare

    But realistically you can’t beat a Condi Mesmer without antitoxin. With anti toxin you can 1v1 and win without really getting into too much trouble.

    You can. The blood/sr/reaper/flock build has better condi sustain than the spite/curses/reaper/antitoxin build. I duelled condi mirages on both builds and trolled core trailblazer necros (the dude from CORE who posted roaming videos in this forum xD) and trailblazer condi daredevils with the blood/sr/reaper/flock build - both encounters you can sustain forever - your cleanses will grant you a constant flow of life force. That's not possible on the spite/curses/reaper/antitoxin build - you will run out of life force pretty quick.

    Regarding the toughness gear: You need that vitality on marauder! Going for commander leaves you alone with 13k life force. That's a huge problem for any encounter. Shroud drops too fast. The life force bonus in SR is so important that running any non-SR pvp build without addtional vitality is not viable.

    I experimented a lot with mixes of vitality and toughness in that build but the damage loss was too high to be a serious threat. In the end I decided to go only for vitality.

    The Suffer! utility slot: yes that's true, you can change that to another utility or even locust signet and warhorn to focus, but without Suffer! you are a freekill to condi mirages on that build. They will bomb you until one shroud enter transfer fails because of one of his million blinds and then you are kitten (e.g. if you have 3 condis on you - one of them is a blind - and RNG decides you transfer the other 2, then the whole transfer will fail as you are blinded -> GG).

  • @KrHome.1920 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    I experimented a bit with antitoxin rune, since some people here seem to be big fans of it, but I still think the rune is useless in my my sustain build above.

    So an alternative (more offensive) build, for antitoxin rune fans:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhF6kZTocTs2Gw4GgeTsgLYRbt81HIuKuFLjQXtAwBA-j1xHQBA4UA8PlfvT9HGqEkX7P8N9BK7JAEA4A48m38zDc+5nf+5n33nf+5nf+5nf+5nHA-w

    Roamed a few hours on it and had good success.

    But like for every reaper build: Avoid open field thief/soulbeast fights! When there are LOS options, you can beat everything on that build as the boon corrupt and crit chance is insane at the cost of range, which is poor.

    Okay, this build is much better though out. You have near 100% crit chance, you have GOOD condition cleansing, damage and corrupts.

    You will only need Condi cleanse against mirages. But wasting the rune for only one build that it counters? Not worth it I think.

    Only thing you lack is Reliable damage mitigation. Personally I would just drop Maurader gear. Invest in captains trinkets and either Assassin gear or commanders, depending on how comfortable you are at sitting perfectly at 100% crit chance or less than that. But this would just be personal choice. If ur cool with hanging around in 1k toughness and light armor than that’s cool. But if u want to take on soul beasts, toughness is the way to go.

    I have to agree here. No toughness is very hard to play on, especially with all those power classes.

    Now even though I think anti toxin can be used better (its most effective synergy is with death magic and spectral walk) you should be okay on Condi cleansing. However, your taking suffer, which imo could be used for a different utility. Of course because of how you made this build you put a dependence on your utilities to cleanse your conditions rather than your traitlines.

    Lastly, If you want to take advantage of quickness, having utilities and heal spells with cash times benefit more than it does from taking spells with no cast times, ei; shouts.

    Feast of corruption makes for more useful application with quickness after leaving shroud, likewise a utility with cast times also take advantage of this.

    Just my thoughts. But all and all a good build with good theory crafting.

    The problem you'll encounter here, you have to calculate, using all Abilities without quickness.

    Because max duration of quickness outside of shroud would be ~3seconds. But using all utility skills in that time makes you very predictable and easy to kill

    Ya, the build he has no boon duration so that’s why the shouts are okay

    And there’s plenty of Condi specs. Don’t forget scourge. Power is more prevalent but Condi cleanse is always good to have even in abundance.

    I played against many scourges (Condi). And I did so with just spectral walk and consume conditions. Easy wins.

    And I really never meet any other Condi roamers than mirages.
    Well Condi thief and maybe ranger but they are very very rare

    But realistically you can’t beat a Condi Mesmer without antitoxin. With anti toxin you can 1v1 and win without really getting into too much trouble.

    You can. The blood/sr/reaper/flock build has better condi sustain than the spite/curses/reaper/antitoxin build. I duelled condi mirages on both builds and trolled core trailblazer necros (the dude from CORE who posted roaming videos in this forum xD) and trailblazer condi daredevils with the blood/sr/reaper/flock build - both encounters you can sustain forever - your cleanses will grant you a constant flow of life force. That's not possible on the spite/curses/reaper/antitoxin build - you will run out of life force pretty quick.

    Regarding the toughness gear: You need that vitality on marauder! Going for commander leaves you alone with 13k life force. That's a huge problem for any encounter. Shroud drops too fast. The life force bonus in SR is so important that running any non-SR pvp build without addtional vitality is not viable.

    I experimented a lot with mixes of vitality and toughness in that build but the damage loss was too high to be a serious threat. In the end I decided to go only for vitality.

    The Suffer! utility slot: yes that's true, you can change that to another utility or even locust signet and warhorn to focus, but without Suffer! you are a freekill to condi mirages on that build. They will bomb you until one shroud enter transfer fails because of one of his million blinds and then you are kitten (e.g. if you have 3 condis on you - one of them is a blind - and RNG decides you transfer the other 2, then the whole transfer will fail as you are blinded -> GG).

    Sure. I mean that’s the consequence of taking spite/curses and having condition cleanse utilities to synergies with antitoxin runes, rather than just bringing death magic to synergies with antitoxin, You force yourself in having your utilities be condition cleanses, rather than passive condition cleanse. This kinda prevents you from takeing utilities that generate life force like spectral grasp. And of course with spite/curses you lose benefits from Soul Reaping related to life force gain, so ya, those issues together in your build probably causes issues with life force Regen. But that’s just a consequence of how you made the build.

    As for gear...I mean It’s your choice. The way I make my builds without marauder, I have 22k health from traits...so I have 17k life force (Soul Reaping line give you 80% HP to Life force ratio) which to me is fine. But again that’s cause I choose death magic and Soul Reaping over curses and spite.

    I can go into reasons as to why you don’t really need spite, but your build has a theme which is corrupting boons, which you maximize this by taking those two traitlines. So ya again these are all just consequences of how you put your traits and skills together in your build.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm playing this right now:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAR3dnc0AV3gVbCG3A0biFrBjKEEDmUSBgQWJLeDOCThA-jlSGQBQ7CAAj9HkoSwCqMwAPEg6pCxaVfpc6GIoSPAcEAIFg5S2A-w

    Of sustain isn't as good as having bloodmagic, but the defense as well as offense is pretty good. Against warriors, guards Engis and mirages I use the protection trait

    Mirage setup: suffer, spectral armor, spectral walk
    Engi: BiP, corrupt boon, spectral walk
    Warrior/guard: corrupt boon, ncsy, spectral walk

  • @Nimon.7840 said:
    I'm playing this right now:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAR3dnc0AV3gVbCG3A0biFrBjKEEDmUSBgQWJLeDOCThA-jlSGQBQ7CAAj9HkoSwCqMwAPEg6pCxaVfpc6GIoSPAcEAIFg5S2A-w

    Of sustain isn't as good as having bloodmagic, but the defense as well as offense is pretty good. Against warriors, guards Engis and mirages I use the protection trait

    Mirage setup: suffer, spectral armor, spectral walk
    Engi: BiP, corrupt boon, spectral walk
    Warrior/guard: corrupt boon, ncsy, spectral walk

    Looking on this build there’s s couple things that I would question

    First is decimate defences. Why have this trait over any of the other two choices? You don’t output vulnerability, and even if you did, you have enough crit chance already via fury from pack runes and/or Deaths Perception. (97% with pack Rune proc and 77% without)

    Pack Runes...back to this discussion...it’s not perma and lasts only 12ish seconds/30seconds, and to take advantage of it you have to dedicate a full set of diviner gear for something that’s effective 40% of the time. You have death magic with shrouded removal and spectral walk but no antitoxin?

    Crusader trinkets for 250 healing power...is there a reason for this? Why not go captains, to gain more toughness and more precision so that you can drop pack runes for a better set of runes?

    Deadly strength...it makes sense...but it’s really not that impactful imo. For lack of anything better to choose really is why I assume you took this trait. With 1400 toughness your taking home 180ish power in shroud maximum, which is about 3-6 stacks of unstrippable might. Is that really better than -20% condition damage with protection? Plus 5 seconds of protection on Stun?

    Corrupters fervor...alright now I understand your thought process for taking crusader trinkets. You max out toughness with Ferver which leaves you some extra stats. That’s cool. But 280 healing power on necro which most healing scales poorly with...you should still swap out these trinkets for better stats like boon duration, precision, or even more toughness and drop ferver for sanctuary.

    Just some of my thoughts.

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    man you lads are overthinking it

    just slap full trailblazer on your scurg with tormenting runes and you'll do fine against 99% of whatever you'll face when running between camps to refresh your reward ticks before going afk again

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    I'm playing this right now:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAR3dnc0AV3gVbCG3A0biFrBjKEEDmUSBgQWJLeDOCThA-jlSGQBQ7CAAj9HkoSwCqMwAPEg6pCxaVfpc6GIoSPAcEAIFg5S2A-w

    Of sustain isn't as good as having bloodmagic, but the defense as well as offense is pretty good. Against warriors, guards Engis and mirages I use the protection trait

    Mirage setup: suffer, spectral armor, spectral walk
    Engi: BiP, corrupt boon, spectral walk
    Warrior/guard: corrupt boon, ncsy, spectral walk

    Looking on this build there’s s couple things that I would question

    First is decimate defences. Why have this trait over any of the other two choices? You don’t output vulnerability, and even if you did, you have enough crit chance already via fury from pack runes and/or Deaths Perception. (97% with pack Rune proc and 77% without)

    I do output vulnerability. Decimate defenses is mainly for the extra crit outside of shroud. It's a really bad idea in duels to have only shroud as offensive tool. It makes you very predictable and easy to kill, if you have no pressure outside of shroud.

    And you did see my axe right? What does the autoattack do?
    Also you sometimes don't have fury, when you go inside of shroud.
    All in all the rune and the trait keep me on a pretty good critchance.

    Pack Runes...back to this discussion...it’s not perma and lasts only 12ish seconds/30seconds, and to take advantage of it you have to dedicate a full set of diviner gear for something that’s effective 40% of the time. You have death magic with shrouded removal and spectral walk but no antitoxin?

    I don't need antitoxin. Not enough Condi roamers. mirages are 70% power. And I have fervor, that already reduces condition damage by a high amount.
    I'm thinking about taking the new fireworks rune.

    Crusader trinkets for 250 healing power...is there a reason for this? Why not go captains, to gain more toughness and more precision so that you can drop pack runes for a better set of runes?

    I wanted to get max power and toughness + ferocity. Also consume conditions favours healing power. It gives 200+20heal per condition extra.

    Though with fireworks rune, I will loose 125precision. That might suck, so I'm already thinking about taking some captains trinkets. Or just stick to my plan with kiting on axe and decimate defenses.

    Deadly strength...it makes sense...but it’s really not that impactful imo. For lack of anything better to choose really is why I assume you took this trait. With 1400 toughness your taking home 180ish power in shroud maximum, which is about 3-6 stacks of unstrippable might. Is that really better than -20% condition damage with protection? Plus 5 seconds of protection on Stun?

    Yeah depends on the enemy I'm fighting.

    Corrupters fervor...alright now I understand your thought process for taking crusader trinkets. You max out toughness with Ferver which leaves you some extra stats. That’s cool. But 280 healing power on necro which most healing scales poorly with...you should still swap out these trinkets for better stats like boon duration, precision, or even more toughness and drop ferver for sanctuary.

    Just some of my thoughts.

    Don't like sanctuary. I think it's one of the worst designed necro traits. The healing is a joke and if I switch out crusaders gear that healing would get even worse

  • http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNAndRnMbC12gF3AmbC0biFzBjKAEBmTx5v/XCc6glwCVA-jFSGABEq+DJ7PcpSvyfAg+ADOCAIpMAgTBAfKBDAcAY5lXe5lXuKv8yLv8yLv8yLHA-w

    had some gear leftover, from another healing scourge build that stole boons which it corrupted. On the latter I could've went more with boon duration now that I think about it.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    But again that’s cause I choose death magic and Soul Reaping over curses and spite.

    That's a different playstyle, because it's a bruiser build.

    So the question is, why DM over BM?

    DM received some small buffs, but I still think it's too weak. The traitline still justifies itself only for minion masters.

    • Soul Comprehension: useless
    • the two non minion Major Grandmasters: way too weak, even weaker than BM Major Masters
    • Deadly Strengh: useless, the BM leeching adds almost the same damage, heals you and ignores Endure Pain and other immunities
    • Dark Defiance: okay, but condi sustain is achieveable on both traitlines

    The utility DM provides is good, but the effects are too weak. 3s protection here and there, 180 toughness in shroud, 1 cleanse every 3s in shroud, 130 regen/s in shroud, damage reduction that has a ramp up time (how stupid is that?) ... that's not enough for current level of powercreep!

    The only reason why I would pick DM over BM is that I want to drop Sigil of Cleansing at the cost of having to use Rune of Antitoxin which loses half of its effect (increasing condi damage) in a power build.

  • http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNArfWnE9CN9iF3Ae9Cs9iluBbKjNACA6B1i6Sl6DsBOUA-jViAABAcCASUfQjKBre/hyU+dq6PdcIAO/IAE9DAocQAAVVVFA-w

    too broke to test it out, can't really find the right stats in spvp, but it seems to decent. Probably too much toughness.

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNArfWnE9CN9iF3Ae9Cs9iluBbKjNACA6B1i6Sl6DsBOUA-jViAABAcCASUfQjKBre/hyU+dq6PdcIAO/IAE9DAocQAAVVVFA-w

    too broke to test it out, can't really find the right stats in spvp, but it seems to decent. Probably too much toughness.

    you're probably better off dropping the apothecary pieces. only halfway investing in a stat like that usually only means you end up not doing enough sustain for it to be a proper sustain build and not enough damage to pressure enemies adequately.

  • @Aktium.9506 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNArfWnE9CN9iF3Ae9Cs9iluBbKjNACA6B1i6Sl6DsBOUA-jViAABAcCASUfQjKBre/hyU+dq6PdcIAO/IAE9DAocQAAVVVFA-w

    too broke to test it out, can't really find the right stats in spvp, but it seems to decent. Probably too much toughness.

    you're probably better off dropping the apothecary pieces. only halfway investing in a stat like that usually only means you end up not doing enough sustain for it to be a proper sustain build and not enough damage to pressure enemies adequately.

    what would you recommend instead?

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @felincyriac.5981 said:

    @Aktium.9506 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNArfWnE9CN9iF3Ae9Cs9iluBbKjNACA6B1i6Sl6DsBOUA-jViAABAcCASUfQjKBre/hyU+dq6PdcIAO/IAE9DAocQAAVVVFA-w

    too broke to test it out, can't really find the right stats in spvp, but it seems to decent. Probably too much toughness.

    you're probably better off dropping the apothecary pieces. only halfway investing in a stat like that usually only means you end up not doing enough sustain for it to be a proper sustain build and not enough damage to pressure enemies adequately.

    what would you recommend instead?

    probably go full dire if you're stuck with that stat, otherwise trailblazer. i'm also personally not into blood magic if im solo roaming. the sustain from transfusion and vamp aura add a lot less survivability than weakening shroud most of the time. especially when you can get still chunked for 8-10k with 3.1k armor, weakness on enemy and protection against a bunch of builds. but its still a lifesaver especially in 1vX. losing plague sending also sucks.

  • @Aktium.9506 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:

    @Aktium.9506 said:

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNArfWnE9CN9iF3Ae9Cs9iluBbKjNACA6B1i6Sl6DsBOUA-jViAABAcCASUfQjKBre/hyU+dq6PdcIAO/IAE9DAocQAAVVVFA-w

    too broke to test it out, can't really find the right stats in spvp, but it seems to decent. Probably too much toughness.

    you're probably better off dropping the apothecary pieces. only halfway investing in a stat like that usually only means you end up not doing enough sustain for it to be a proper sustain build and not enough damage to pressure enemies adequately.

    what would you recommend instead?

    probably go full dire if you're stuck with that stat, otherwise trailblazer. i'm also personally not into blood magic if im solo roaming. the sustain from transfusion and vamp aura add a lot less survivability than weakening shroud most of the time. especially when you can get still chunked for 8-10k with 3.1k armor, weakness on enemy and protection against a bunch of builds. but its still a lifesaver especially in 1vX. losing plague sending also sucks.

    there is also blood bond, which is a nice ~6k heal with additional 500 lifesteal chunks for like 5 hits, you can proc it reliably with this build. I will try it like this, if not i have a full trailblazar set, but i think without the sustain + the new condi removal rune, it will be most difficult.

  • felincyriac.5981felincyriac.5981 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2019

    Hmm not too sure if I should take life from death or vampirism, feel like I'm not procc'ing vamp enough (esp on a condi build).
    Also got some salty whispers from thiefs, hehe "condi noob"

  • Droontar.1542Droontar.1542 Member ✭✭
    edited January 30, 2019

    Sooo... A lot of opinions here.

    My situation right now is this: most of the time I'll be roaming solo or +1 FB, and the rest of the time I'll add 1 or 2 more Mesmers to the group making a total of 4 (max for now). The safest bet for the first compositions (1 or 2 players) I guess I will go with Full Marauder Reaper, but not sure about runes... On the other hand, when playing as a group of 3-4 I guess I should run Scourge and be more support / dps than dps role, so, I'm kinda lost about what's stats runes for this situation...

    Please, correct me if I'm wrong on anything above! :)

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