Im not playing GW2 till necro is fun to play in PVE again

and I MEAN FUN as in not feeling like I hit like a wet noodle with my condi build. not be laughed at for wanting to do raids/challenge motes/T100 fractals ETC. all the nerfs to Epi, complete nerfs to skills like Scepter 3, and just overall turning necro into corrupting boons AND Applying conditions now it is just a boon corrupt bot 99% of the time if you want to do condi damage, but NEWS FLASH most of PVE has no boons and the few enemies that do have either VERY little boons and will not re-apply them so the 1 time you get the corrupt off is the only extra condi you will be doing. I am only logging in to get the free living story episodes, how many do you think I will bank before necro is actually playable again?

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:and I MEAN FUN as in not feeling like I hit like a wet noodle with my condi build. not be laughed at for wanting to do raids/challenge motes/T100 fractals ETC. all the nerfs to Epi, complete nerfs to skills like Scepter 3, and just overall turning necro into corrupting boons AND Applying conditions now it is just a boon corrupt bot 99% of the time if you want to do condi damage, but NEWS FLASH most of PVE has no boons and the few enemies that do have either VERY little boons and will not re-apply them so the 1 time you get the corrupt off is the only extra condi you will be doing. I am only logging in to get the free living story episodes, how many do you think I will bank before necro is actually playable again?

What are you talking about? Condi scourge is fine in PvE. In fact the current build with lich runes and bone minion is probably the best it has been in a while. Sure it could use some small bumps but it is below average at worst, not unplayable like power druid in dps role.

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:and I MEAN FUN as in not feeling like I hit like a wet noodle with my condi build. not be laughed at...Necro condi dps is a meme. Don't be that meme. Play... (support Scourge may be a meme, too) ... play... (MM is a meme, too) ... GWEN wells, no... Spin-to-win power-Reaper... maybe core power-mule?

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:and I MEAN FUN as in not feeling like I hit like a wet noodle with my condi build. not be laughed at...Necro condi dps is a meme. Don't be that meme. Play... (support Scourge may be a meme, too) ... play... (MM is a meme, too) ... GWEN wells, no... Spin-to-win power-Reaper... maybe core power-mule?

Condi scourge is roughly 10% below the average benchmark and that is without factoring in the torment movement damage and LF from mob deaths. Yes right now it could get bumped up a bit but is nowhere meme status. That's for builds like power berserkers.

Support scourge as well has been a very strong contender for 2nd healer in raid and main healer in fractals. There is no meme status, you are a bit behind times on this one.

Minions is actually not as bad as you think as well with death magic, the issue comes in that it only really works in raid 1/2 where the mob trigger death nova. Power reaper is also about 10% off. Yes the class could stand to give a buff but people really need to stop perpetrating necro is an unplayable meme as you are only hurting the class overall by giving the people's perception when in reality is only a bit below where it should be, especially when support scourge itself is a popular build right now.

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:how many do you think I will bank before necro is actually playable again?

How long before YOU play necro again? Never. You have unrealistic expectations and are being sensational.

I'm having fun playing my condi scourge in PvE. Also my power reaper. Not sure why you think it's not fun.

Guess someone hasn't been paying attention to the new instabilities for fractals.

Necro isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

@Infusion.7149 said:Guess someone hasn't been paying attention to the new instabilities for fractals.

Necro isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

Who wants to play fractals?With the right people they were just an annoyance.

Didn't play the new instabilities yet though

lol. with so many HP and the survival skills it needs more nerf

@Savach.7219 said:lol. with so many HP and the survival skills it needs more nerf

Which survival skills?Which survival traits?

Can I have, er borrow your stuff?

@Warscythes.9307 said:

What are you talking about? Condi scourge is fine in PvE.

It is fine, in open world. As for other PVE content like fractals and raids:

• is not it same good as other cdps classes? I don't think so..
• is not it same boons useful as some other classes? I don't think so..

Please correct me if I'm wrong with proofs^

I'm playing condi scourge and I'm happy with it, however I don't see point why I would be taken into group instead of many other classes.So yes, would be great to see some DPS parity with other condi classes.

@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:and I MEAN FUN as in not feeling like I hit like a wet noodle with my condi build. not be laughed at...Necro condi dps is a meme. Don't be that meme. Play... (support Scourge may be a meme, too) ... play... (MM is a meme, too) ... GWEN wells, no... Spin-to-win power-Reaper... maybe core power-mule?

Which wouldn't be much of a deal, if everyone was only doing 1k DPS so the difference would only be 100. But we are at ~34k DPSAnd necro in general is 5k behind that, that's not just 10% that's almost 20% behind.Other classes also do torment or confusion is an even better example, so you won't be doing much more than those other classes.

Berserker isn't meant to be played on power, yet you can see kill shot warriors running around in wvw, doing 20-24k dmg with one shot.

Support scourge as well has been a very strong contender for 2nd healer in raid and main healer in fractals. There is no meme status, you are a bit behind times on this one.

Oh gosh, this one... Support scourge isn't even that good, if you need a mirror comp it's bad, if people don't go down it's not good.It needs a little more of something to be really a strong contender for second healer. Right now, firebrand, ele, rev are just much better.

Minions is actually not as bad as you think as well with death magic, the issue comes in that it only really works in raid 1/2 where the mob trigger death nova. Power reaper is also about 10% off. Yes the class could stand to give a buff but people really need to stop perpetrating necro is an unplayable meme as you are only hurting the class overall by giving the people's perception when in reality is only a bit below where it should be, especially when support scourge itself is a popular build right now.

Support scourge would be good if it either did the same DPS as other "support classes" (quickness firebrand, banner warrior, condi-alacrity-rev) or if it could do near the buffs other supports can do like might on druid. But you aren't even able to keep up 25might in most scenarios on 5 people, not to mention that you can't do it on 10. Or give other important boons like fury, protection...

Minions is bad, it was like 2-3k DPS loss in heavy add-intense fights.

I love playing my Reaper and frankly if they left power reaper alone right now i'd be fine with things.

@annsi.4239 said:@Warscythes.9307 said:

What are you talking about? Condi scourge is fine in PvE.

• is not it same good as other cdps classes? I don't think so..
• is not it same boons useful as some other classes? I don't think so..

AoEBoon StripBoon CorruptBarrier from doing DPS

If you don't understand why those would be desired in T4 fractals, please go read the patch notes from earlier this week.

Almost daily my LFG group has a Necro in it, about 50% power reaper and 50% condi scourge.

So long as it has access to so much AoE coverage and boon denial with such high inbuilt sustain it will never lead in DPS. Nor should it. These things don't matter in PvE because ANet does not make them matter in PvE. But necromancer is responsible for and continues to have the tightest strangehold on the meta in the PvP modes of all classes.

Scourge in particular was a mistake because it exacerbated existing problems with necro being entirely what causes metas to change and generally dominant in the PvP formats, while feeling underwhelming in PvE because of how much self-sustain and how much area control they gave it.

Not to mention that if you're not having fun just because you're not the best for PvE of all things, you should do some evaluation. Necro is one of the most diverse classes due to its specs covering vastly different playstyles, so I highly doubt it's a lack of enjoyment from playstyle.

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:and I MEAN FUN as in not feeling like I hit like a wet noodle with my condi build. not be laughed at...Necro condi dps is a meme. Don't be that meme. Play... (support Scourge may be a meme, too) ... play... (MM is a meme, too) ... GWEN wells, no... Spin-to-win power-Reaper... maybe core power-mule?

Support scourge as well has been a very strong contender for 2nd healer in raid and main healer in fractals. There is no meme status, you are a bit behind times on this one.

Minions is actually not as bad as you think as well with death magic, the issue comes in that it only really works in raid 1/2 where the mob trigger death nova. Power reaper is also about 10% off. Yes the class could stand to give a buff but people really need to stop perpetrating necro is an unplayable meme as you are only hurting the class overall by giving the people's perception when in reality is only a bit below where it should be, especially when support scourge itself is a popular build right now.

Scourge currently bench 29.4k, I consider average to be about 33k. 10% brings it to 32.3k which is perfectly reasonable due to the passive barrier and cleanse in its rotations. The only real class that does torment and confusion is mirage and everybody knows they are overtuned. The other is renegade but they need huge hitboxes and needs to be melee. Range and the utility scourge brings is a fine trade off to classes that needs to be in melee and offers no other real benefit. I know berserker is not meant to be played as power but I gave a real meme build as an example. Also no, I don't see killshot warriors in wvw doing 20k-24k. what is this HoT era? Besides we are talking about pve here.

Support scourge has been a strong build for a while now, if you don't believe me then believe snowcrows. Hell half the raid pug these days have a druid and scourge as healer. Is not just about revives but people finally start to realize benefit of barriers and agony reduction in fractals. Plus with the fractal placing more and more emphasis on boon strip, it is on a fine spot in comparison to healer tempest, rev or FB. Really how much more evidence do you need that support scourge is fine. Every raid comp always having 1 like a druid? Grantly I am not against adding regen or fury somewhere but it is nowhere a meme status.

quickness firebrand, barrier warrior and condi alacrity rev are dps with a side of support. Scourge support is a support as a side of dps added occasionally, is not the same thing. Also yes you can upkeep 25might with BiP, is not really difficult. In 10 you have druid. Protection is not needed with barrier.

MM is bad yes but again people don't realize is not that bad, I threw that out because the OP seems to think is literally unredeemable.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:So long as it has access to so much AoE coverage and boon denial with such high inbuilt sustain it will never lead in DPS. Nor should it. These things don't matter in PvE because ANet does not make them matter in PvE. But necromancer is responsible for and continues to have the tightest strangehold on the meta in the PvP modes of all classes.

Scourge in particular was a mistake because it exacerbated existing problems with necro being entirely what causes metas to change and generally dominant in the PvP formats, while feeling underwhelming in PvE because of how much self-sustain and how much area control they gave it.

Not to mention that if you're not having fun just because you're not the best for PvE of all things, you should do some evaluation. Necro is one of the most diverse classes due to its specs covering vastly different playstyles, so I highly doubt it's a lack of enjoyment from playstyle.

The thing with necro is that it is a bad Jack of all trades that has a lot of its POTENTIAL DAMAGE locked behind boon corruption, now boon corrupt is good in PVP and zerging WvW, PVE? it is HEAVILY INCONSISTANT AT BEST at worst there is just no boons and your damage is that of a WET NOODLE and the PVE content that does have boons either don't re-apply them in regular intervals to keep getting the value and thus it is just 1 small burst of extra damage at the start that wont matter OR you are in high end PVE Content where you can just bring differing classes with boonstrip and they will just do more damage without needing to corrupt boons but have boon strip so corruption of boons is no longer needed. I as a condi necro player want Epi to be back to transferring FULL 25 STACKS MAX with no reduction in duration of the condis spread to 5 targets instantly, EPI WAS NOT OP THEN heck it was the only reason that condi necro was not DEAD but ever since the latest epi nerf condi necro (and when I say condi necro I do include condi reaper and condi scourge) is dead and not viable at all in any end game content. but here let me say it like thisWant buffs? get a Revenant or PS warrior and or a ChronoWant Damage Warriors. period or Ele'sWant Support? DruidWant Condi Damage? Again Warrior, or Mesmer, or even Rev

Necro excels only at AOE boon corrupt and that is VERY situational and those situations are only PVP and WvW and not even in every situation I would be fine for them to nerf the AOE boon corrupt and give Necro more HARD condis of bleed, torment, etc that way you remove potency of them in WvW and PvP and give them back strength in PVE, just scepter auto attack 3rd in the AA chain is enough condi corrupt for PVE most of the time you HARDLY IF EVER need more then that

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:So long as it has access to so much AoE coverage and boon denial with such high inbuilt sustain it will never

lead

in DPS. Nor should it. These things don't matter in PvE because ANet does not make them matter in PvE. But necromancer is responsible for and continues to have the tightest strangehold on the meta in the PvP modes of all classes.

Scourge in particular was a mistake because it exacerbated existing problems with necro being entirely what causes metas to change and generally dominant in the PvP formats, while feeling underwhelming in PvE because of how much self-sustain and how much area control they gave it.

Not to mention that if you're not having fun just because you're not the best for PvE of all things, you should do some evaluation. Necro is one of the most diverse classes due to its specs covering vastly different playstyles, so I highly doubt it's a lack of enjoyment from playstyle.

This sounds to me like it's a good portion of the problem, then. See, what ANet has failed to do is actually make any PvE encounter even closely resemble PvP such that things like weakness and cripple are worthless to be spewing because bosses don't even get affected by them, and because bosses don't re-apply their boons.

They could also just as easily give bosses massive applications of vigor and regeneration even if the bosses don't necessarily use these mechanics just to help improve DPS via necro corruption rather than comps opting for boon stripping. And then they could buff the corruption table for things like bleeding/poison for PvE. That's not a necro problem so much as a boss behavior problem. The PvE issues necro has have literally nothing to do with any innate weakness of the class at this point.

And given the fact that condi scourge is objectively so high on the damage charts as of right now which a ton of people are posting... I don't understand why you'd proclaim it's useless and not fun.

EPI WAS NOT OP THENYes it kinda was. 5 necros was meta in fractals for a while and it was so OP that even me as someone who hasn't played PvE in any capacity, including living story since early season 3 heard about it. And it was not skilled and trivialized the entire game. Epi was boring AF to use. Press a button and get obscene damage while you sit there basically doing nothing else. That's not what GW2 is about.

Want Damage Warriors. period or Ele'sWant Support? DruidWant Condi Damage? Again Warrior, or Mesmer, or even Rev

Necro excels only at AOE boon corrupt and that is VERY situational and those situations are only PVP and WvW and not even in every situation I would be fine for them to nerf the AOE boon corrupt and give Necro more HARD condis of bleed, torment, etc that way you remove potency of them in WvW and PvP and give them back strength in PVE, just scepter auto attack 3rd in the AA chain is enough condi corrupt for PVE most of the time you HARDLY IF EVER need more then that

If necro excels at any of those categories it becomes the best class period, because then there's no identity for the other classes to fulfill because it has such high baseline potential in all three without needing build investment thanks to shroud's innate defenses and the utility scourge brings.

It's not meant to be an optimal condition damage dealer, either. It's meant to utilize conditions to control fights, like through weakness to negate incoming damage and fear and cripple to lock down and kite enemies. Again, this is a problem with the encounters in "high end" PvE; they're all extremely narrow-scoped, and to be honest, as soon as necro advances in something over another class, someone else gets thrown out of the meta. Even if everyone did exactly the same damage, people would kick because one class would be more reliable in dealing its damage at more levels of skill or have slightly higher self-sustain.

Necro can't be balanced with the trinity system in mind because GW2 as a whole wasn't ever intended to have the trinity system and "high end" PvE in mind from a class perspective. Adjusting the classes will not fix PvE because the issues in PvE are bigger than numbers tweaks to professions.

And if you nerf necro's corruption ability, then many professions also need to be nerfed in their boon applications, especially Firebrand. I agree with this, but it's impossible to do in a fair way because of Concentration and how overpowered boons are. So then ANet needs to nerf a lot of boons and baseline damage coefficients and condition application because without nerfs to direct power everyone will just one-shot one another once boons are nerfed out of the meta. And then necro ends up needing to get nerfed because it outdamages everything, can tank super well thanks to its high baseline levels of sustain, and can shut down the limited number of resistance floating around. So then you're back at square 1 because something else will out-DPS it.

While I'd love to see the above happen because the PvP modes aren't that fun anymore when everyone has massively-inflated stats and necros thus basically control the game, anything short of a full-on game-wide rework of all professions breaks virtually everything.

Much easier to make some better encounters that the necro is good into, and maybe buff its corruption in PvE-only so it means even a small fraction of what it does in the PvP modes.

Because if it mattered as much as it does in the PvP modes, we'd see most groups probably running 2 FB 8 scourge.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:So long as it has access to so much AoE coverage and boon denial with such high inbuilt sustain it will never

lead

in DPS. Nor should it. These things don't matter in PvE because ANet does not make them matter in PvE. But necromancer is responsible for and continues to have the tightest strangehold on the meta in the PvP modes of all classes.

Scourge in particular was a mistake because it exacerbated existing problems with necro being entirely what causes metas to change and generally dominant in the PvP formats, while feeling underwhelming in PvE because of how much self-sustain and how much area control they gave it.

Not to mention that if you're not having fun just because you're not the best for PvE of all things, you should do some evaluation. Necro is one of the most diverse classes due to its specs covering vastly different playstyles, so I highly doubt it's a lack of enjoyment from playstyle.

EPI WAS NOT OP THENYes it kinda was. 5 necros was meta in fractals for a while and it was so OP that even me as someone who hasn't played PvE in any capacity, including living story since early season 3 heard about it. And it was not skilled and trivialized the entire game. Epi was boring AF to use. Press a button and get obscene damage while you sit there basically doing nothing else. That's not what GW2 is about.

Want Damage Warriors. period or Ele'sWant Support? DruidWant Condi Damage? Again Warrior, or Mesmer, or even Rev

Necro excels only at AOE boon corrupt and that is VERY situational and those situations are only PVP and WvW and not even in every situation I would be fine for them to nerf the AOE boon corrupt and give Necro more HARD condis of bleed, torment, etc that way you remove potency of them in WvW and PvP and give them back strength in PVE, just scepter auto attack 3rd in the AA chain is enough condi corrupt for PVE most of the time you HARDLY IF EVER need more then that

your thing about Epi being OP it had to be OP because how necro applies its damage is increasing DPS over time to a SINGLE TARGET most of tis AOES are boon corrupt not condi applying that is why Epi was needed to be somewhat OP so that you could spread at least to a degree that single target damage to multiple enemies or Necro would need to have THE BEST single target damage amongst all classes to balance out their poor AoE damage when you compare say a warrior able to do their high power damage without any build up to multiple mobs, and you keep saying necro has high sustain, it does not have that much sustain because it does not give that many boons to itself or allies, the only REALLY notable thing is death shroud which that can EASILY be burned out of quit quickly that is the only thing truly "sustain" about necros unless you speck into low damage but high sustain with the trait that turns 10% of condi damage into heals (can't think of the name off the top of my head" and I NEVER SAID i wanted necro TO BE THE BE ALL END ALL DAMAGE and it should out damage every class, no i want it to be on par if not SLIGHTLY BETTER due to its long ramp up time to get its damage going and that unless it is kept up upon that damage will be lost unlike power builds. again that is where Epi was great because it offered a damage boost for co-ordination and only on certain encounters where there was adds to bounce them to the boss. to bring 2 necros or more and using that co-ordination should be rewarded so really in PVE no EPI was not OP because it was severly needed since necro has no good AoE condition application other then Epi but now Epi is pretty much near worthless and your part about making End game PVE feel more like PVP that would be bad because people playing PVE want to play PVE they don't want to play PVE but feel like they are playing PVP or else they would just play PVP

When will people come to the conclusion that Necro, or any other class for that matter, isn't based on their own ideas of what it should be? I can't even imagine at this point what Anet could possibly do to appease such a high player requirement as demonstrated by this thread (and all the other OP's complain threads) while maintaining the theme of the class. The things the OP is talking about are managing numbers level complaints; 'numbers level issues' isn't what holds this class back.

It's pretty simple; the class theme doesn't suit you and it's not changing; that's what Especs are for. If the especs don't suit you either, time to choose a better class fit for you. If that's a sticking point for you, just move on.

The thread is titled for PvE, but in WvW scourge rivals herald as top DPS , to the point about 30-50% of squads are scourges. Just think about that for a minute.

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:So long as it has access to so much AoE coverage and boon denial with such high inbuilt sustain it will never

lead

in DPS. Nor should it. These things don't matter in PvE because ANet does not make them matter in PvE. But necromancer is responsible for and continues to have the tightest strangehold on the meta in the PvP modes of all classes.

Scourge in particular was a mistake because it exacerbated existing problems with necro being entirely what causes metas to change and generally dominant in the PvP formats, while feeling underwhelming in PvE because of how much self-sustain and how much area control they gave it.

Not to mention that if you're not having fun just because you're not the best for PvE of all things, you should do some evaluation. Necro is one of the most diverse classes due to its specs covering vastly different playstyles, so I highly doubt it's a lack of enjoyment from playstyle.

EPI WAS NOT OP THENYes it kinda was. 5 necros was meta in fractals for a while and it was so OP that even me as someone who hasn't played PvE in any capacity, including living story since early season 3 heard about it. And it was not skilled and trivialized the entire game. Epi was boring AF to use. Press a button and get obscene damage while you sit there basically doing nothing else. That's not what GW2 is about.

Want Damage Warriors. period or Ele'sWant Support? DruidWant Condi Damage? Again Warrior, or Mesmer, or even Rev

Necro excels only at AOE boon corrupt and that is VERY situational and those situations are only PVP and WvW and not even in every situation I would be fine for them to nerf the AOE boon corrupt and give Necro more HARD condis of bleed, torment, etc that way you remove potency of them in WvW and PvP and give them back strength in PVE, just scepter auto attack 3rd in the AA chain is enough condi corrupt for PVE most of the time you HARDLY IF EVER need more then that

How does one argue that something need to be OP because that's how damage is applied but that it's not OP because that's what the players needed?

Also, what the players need has no bearing on whether or not something is OP. OP is about balance and whether or not something is too strong. It's also worth pointing out that if end game PVE content worked closer to how PvP/WvW you'd easily solve most of Necromancers problems, I.E. if bosses actually reapplied their boons or spread boons so that Necromancers had something to corrupt. At a technical level PvP/WvW/PvE are all pretty much the same. What changes is who you fight against. PvP/WvW have you facing players so you naturally have different builds that are designed to be more adaptable to fighting real people but the basic mechanics of what your builds are doing doesn't change all that much. When you are learning how to do raids you aren't learning how to play your profession mechanically different from what you do in PvP but how to handle bosses and mobs and the unique mechanics therein.

However, if bosses acted closer to players you'd find that what works for Necromancer in PvP would work in PvE.

@Infusion.7149 said:The thread is titled for PvE, but in WvW scourge rivals herald as top DPS , to the point about 30-50% of squads are scourges. Just think about that for a minute.

you answered your own post, this is about PVE not PVP or WvW

@Obtena.7952 said:When will people come to the conclusion that Necro, or any other class for that matter, isn't based on their own ideas of what it should be? I can't even imagine at this point what Anet could possibly do to appease such a high player requirement as demonstrated by this thread (and all the other OP's complain threads) while maintaining the theme of the class. The things the OP is talking about are managing numbers level complaints; 'numbers level issues' isn't what holds this class back.

It's pretty simple; the class theme doesn't suit you and it's not changing; that's what Especs are for. If the especs don't suit you either, time to choose a better class fit for you. If that's a sticking point for you, just move on.

thing is though is that necros were fun and viable in PVE for quite a while and then about over 9000 nerfs later is current necro.