Why didn't the human gods step in to intervene Kalk in the mist? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why didn't the human gods step in to intervene Kalk in the mist?

crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

We all know that the human gods left Tyria because they know if they confront the Elder Dragons it will destroy Tyria.

but the Mist is not Tyria, it's their domain, especially the fact that Kalk is in there devouring spirits to grow even stronger after grew strong from Zhaitan and Modremoth's deaths and the bloodstone

have the human gods ventured to a space that is beyond the mist that they can no longer receive news of what's happening within their domain?
they just gonna sit back to let Kalk to grow to the point beyond the point the human gods themselves will not stand a chance?

share your 2cents to why the human gods did not intervene ;)

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Comments

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    We all know that the human gods left Tyria because they know if they confront the Elder Dragons it will destroy Tyria.

    but the Mist is not Tyria, it's their domain, especially the fact that Kalk is in there devouring spirits to grow even stronger after grew strong from Zhaitan and Modremoth's deaths and the bloodstone

    have the human gods ventured to a space that is beyond the mist that they can no longer receive news of what's happening within their domain?
    they just gonna sit back to let Kalk to grow to the point beyond the point the human gods themselves will not stand a chance?

    share your 2cents to why the human gods did not intervene ;)

    They didn't just abandon Tyria, they abandoned the Tyrian-adjacent parts of the Mists, which is where K has been rampaging, for now. Grenth has left the Underworld, Kormir left her domain after talking to us. Maybe they foresaw this, and that's why they left. Or maybe it will turn out to have something to do with the post-dragon storyline.

  • ThatOddOne.4387ThatOddOne.4387 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    They're not omniscient. They likely weren't aware he was in the Mists. Their intervention would require us finding them and likely asking forcefully or impassionedly for assistance - Like King Doric did with the Bloodstones.

    That said, yes. If Kralkatorrik is next fought in the Mists, where I assume he will go to recuperate, it stands to reason that the Gods could assist, maybe not outright, but in the form of empowerment/resurrecting Aurene/reinforcements from their servants. Because again, clearly what we gathered in Episode 5 still wasn't enough.

  • Fundor.2098Fundor.2098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    They're not omniscient. They likely weren't aware he was in the Mists. Their intervention would require us finding them and likely asking forcefully or impassionedly for assistance - Like King Doric did with the Bloodstones.

    That said, yes. If Kralkatorrik is next fought in the Mists, where I assume he will go to recuperate, it stands to reason that the Gods could assist, maybe not outright, but in the form of empowerment/resurrecting Aurene/reinforcements from their servants. Because again, clearly what we gathered in Episode 5 still wasn't enough.

    This is exactly what I'm hoping will happen. Knowing that Kralkatorrik can now ravage the Mists, the gods and their "new garden for humanity" aren't safe either. It's very much possible they'll face problems there as well, so not stepping in to help in one way or another would just be absurd. AND

    there was the whole ascension mention in the latest episode:
    "Glint: Scion, my beloved child, there are things about Ascension that can only be expressed between dragons."

    At least my commander thinks it's time to stop the frigging gardening and come save the day, so there would be people to plant. :#

    The stories we love best do live in us forever. - J.K. Rowling

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @perilisk.1874 said:

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    We all know that the human gods left Tyria because they know if they confront the Elder Dragons it will destroy Tyria.

    but the Mist is not Tyria, it's their domain, especially the fact that Kalk is in there devouring spirits to grow even stronger after grew strong from Zhaitan and Modremoth's deaths and the bloodstone

    have the human gods ventured to a space that is beyond the mist that they can no longer receive news of what's happening within their domain?
    they just gonna sit back to let Kalk to grow to the point beyond the point the human gods themselves will not stand a chance?

    share your 2cents to why the human gods did not intervene ;)

    They didn't just abandon Tyria, they abandoned the Tyrian-adjacent parts of the Mists, which is where K has been rampaging, for now. Grenth has left the Underworld, Kormir left her domain after talking to us. Maybe they foresaw this, and that's why they left. Or maybe it will turn out to have something to do with the post-dragon storyline.

    'COWARDS!! ALL OF THEM!'

    Seek, and you shall find.

  • The Gods being "cowards" has been debunked so many times on this forum I'm surprised people are still saying it.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    @perilisk.1874 said:

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    We all know that the human gods left Tyria because they know if they confront the Elder Dragons it will destroy Tyria.

    but the Mist is not Tyria, it's their domain, especially the fact that Kalk is in there devouring spirits to grow even stronger after grew strong from Zhaitan and Modremoth's deaths and the bloodstone

    have the human gods ventured to a space that is beyond the mist that they can no longer receive news of what's happening within their domain?
    they just gonna sit back to let Kalk to grow to the point beyond the point the human gods themselves will not stand a chance?

    share your 2cents to why the human gods did not intervene ;)

    They didn't just abandon Tyria, they abandoned the Tyrian-adjacent parts of the Mists, which is where K has been rampaging, for now. Grenth has left the Underworld, Kormir left her domain after talking to us. Maybe they foresaw this, and that's why they left. Or maybe it will turn out to have something to do with the post-dragon storyline.

    well, that is true, but Kalk may eventually wander into the Rift, which is the gateway to other parts of the mist and Hall of Heroes

    my point is, the human God are probably fine with Kalk just wandering around in Tyria, but once he's in the mist and capable of opening gateways to worlds as will, Kalk is now a direct threat to the human gods themselves?

    the disciples like Desmina should know where they went and how to relay what's been happening to the human gods right???

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
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  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It looks like the developers want something really epic for the end. Gods + commander Vs Kralkatorrik in the hall of heroes.

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    The gods can’t fight the elder dragons or they’d destroy tyria. That’s been established. They left to find a new home for humanity, so presumably they wouldn’t intervene even if they knew what Kralk was up to.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svennis.3852 said:
    The gods can’t fight the elder dragons or they’d destroy tyria. That’s been established. They left to find a new home for humanity, so presumably they wouldn’t intervene even if they knew what Kralk was up to.

    they could lure Kalk to somewhere remote

    ok, this is just my hypothesis, the old world where humans originated from was dying, hence they moved to Tyria; if that's the case, the human gods could lure Kalk there and kill it to contain the after impact on the dead world?

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • @crepuscular.9047 said:

    @Svennis.3852 said:
    The gods can’t fight the elder dragons or they’d destroy tyria. That’s been established. They left to find a new home for humanity, so presumably they wouldn’t intervene even if they knew what Kralk was up to.

    they could lure Kalk to somewhere remote

    ok, this is just my hypothesis, the old world where humans originated from was dying, hence they moved to Tyria; if that's the case, the human gods could lure Kalk there and kill it to contain the after impact on the dead world?

    Given how they've established The All and the Elder Dragon's role to it to work, the Elder Dragons being killed in general would destroy Tyria, regardless of where; and it's possible that lure them far enough away would be the same thing in regards to The All, thus destroying Tyria without destroying the Elder Dragons.

    Besides that, who's to say the human homeworld even exists. Maybe it's nothing but dust in space now.

    All these squares make a circle.
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  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭

    Because Tyria is no longer their problem. They have moved on to whatever it is they're doing now. Good luck, humans and everyone else.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They never cared of Tyria, all they done just screw things over.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • ThatOddOne.4387ThatOddOne.4387 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    Apart from you know, the act of forbidding themselves from intervening in Tyria due to the destruction it caused when they fought Abaddon, and withdrawing to avoid fighting the Elder Dragons directly and causing the exact same thing.

    They demonstrably care enough to not want to harm Tyria. At point where they -could- kill the Elder Dragons if they wanted to, but knew this would destroy the world in the process and so did not, they proved they cared.

    They demonstrably care enough about humanity and perhaps other races as well to outright leave and search for a new world free of Elder Dragons, if we assume Garden of the Gods is accurate.

    It's pretty much a trope in fantasy at this point for Gods to care about what happens to the world/peoples they are watching over but being unable to intervene because they believe doing so would make things worse.

  • Someone wrote in another thread that Gods didn't fight Kralkatorrik because they could fail and their magic could be consumed by dragons.

  • I'm not going to hold out hope that you realise how much of a strawman that was.

  • lordhelmos.7623lordhelmos.7623 Member ✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    I think they are antagonists.

    TBH I think the gods were just human kings and queens that came to Tyria when it was a nexus of raw magical power. They stole that power and used it to become divine, creating their own realms and order. The problem was, the dragons were here first and that magic was their food.

    Not to say that the dragons were good or bad. They would wake up every now and then and blast every civilization back to the stone age in a worldwide extinction level event specifically to prevent races from growing powerful enough to threaten them or their food. That activity is simply protecting their own existence.

    In short Tyria sucks and its literally a giant dinner plate for massively powerful elemental space worms to eat from every 1000 years. The correct course of action is to A.) discover the dragons early and B.) GTFO before they wake up and get hungry. The Mursaat were probably the only ones that had this figured out properly.

    So now you have a bunch of pissed off, hungry dragons that wake up only to find that someone raided their pantry. The dragons did not forsee the human gods and how much they would take. Also it didn't help that the watch officer that the dragons assigned to watch over the pantry became sympathetic to the foreign humans and basically abandoned her post to help the outsiders.

    All the problems we have now, yeah guess whose fault that is.

    What need to happen to bring back balance is:

    -Human gods need to give back what they stole (out of all of them, probably Dwayna will be the only one that will)
    -Mortal races need to figure out how to GTFO Tyria and find a new home because Tyria sucks
    -When they leave, they need to put a black flag in Tyria to warn others: beware of crocodiles do not settle here, this place is a craphole

  • ThatOddOne.4387ThatOddOne.4387 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    ... Except that's not what the Gods are or what they did at all. The Gods were divine before they came to Tyria.

    They haven't "stolen" anything, their magic is completely self-contained, and is in fact anathema to the Elder Dragon corruption and minions, if not the Elder Dragons themselves.

    People thinking the Gods are antagonists is laughable.

  • @lordhelmos.7623 said:
    TBH I think the gods were just human kings and queens that came to Tyria when it was a nexus of raw magical power. They stole that power and used it to become divine, creating their own realms and order. The problem was, the dragons were here first and that magic was their food.

    Except it's outright confirmed that they came to Tyria as gods, and that their power is foreign to Tyria.

    The Mursaat were probably the only ones that had this figured out properly.

    Not really. The mursaat had intentions to return once the Elder Dragons fell asleep and attempt global domination over the ruins of what civilizations remained.

    All these squares make a circle.
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    All these squares make a circle.

  • @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    People thinking the Gods are antagonists is laughable.

    You are aware that basically everything in Guild Wars 1 was Abaddon's fault, right? (I mean, I guess Balthazar was the one who said 'dude the other races will be easy to conquer)
    And did you miss the part where Balthazar was totally fine with destroying the world in the name of throwing down with dragons?
    Grenth deposed Dhuum to take on the mantle of god of death because Dhuuum was, and I quote, 'a prick'

    This is a little less solid, but there's also that whole thing where Bath Salts doesn't curse Lyssa as he dies and the hand mirror that he used to disguise himself was enchanted by Lyssa herself

    The point is that the gods have quite a number of fuckups to their name. I won't call them antagonists, but I think Kormir had it pretty right when she said 'you never needed out help'

  • If the gods and their dead world have any of the remotely same relationship as the dragons do to Tyria, then maybe just maybe we shouldn't trust them to handle the situation at all. Their world is dead, and it looks like it might just be their fault.

  • @Rockin Twilight Sparkle.2615 said:

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    People thinking the Gods are antagonists is laughable.

    You are aware that basically everything in Guild Wars 1 was Abaddon's fault, right? (I mean, I guess Balthazar was the one who said 'dude the other races will be easy to conquer)
    And did you miss the part where Balthazar was totally fine with destroying the world in the name of throwing down with dragons?
    Grenth deposed Dhuum to take on the mantle of god of death because Dhuuum was, and I quote, 'a prick'

    This is a little less solid, but there's also that whole thing where Bath Salts doesn't curse Lyssa as he dies and the hand mirror that he used to disguise himself was enchanted by Lyssa herself

    The point is that the gods have quite a number of fuckups to their name. I won't call them antagonists, but I think Kormir had it pretty right when she said 'you never needed out help'

    Oh, gee. You're right, how could I be so blind?

    Of course I'm not referring to the Gods and Ex-Gods that turn into villains, I'm referring to Gods that left Tyria.

  • @Rockin Twilight Sparkle.2615 said:

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    People thinking the Gods are antagonists is laughable.

    You are aware that basically everything in Guild Wars 1 was Abaddon's fault, right? (I mean, I guess Balthazar was the one who said 'dude the other races will be easy to conquer)
    And did you miss the part where Balthazar was totally fine with destroying the world in the name of throwing down with dragons?
    Grenth deposed Dhuum to take on the mantle of god of death because Dhuuum was, and I quote, 'a prick'

    This is a little less solid, but there's also that whole thing where Bath Salts doesn't curse Lyssa as he dies and the hand mirror that he used to disguise himself was enchanted by Lyssa herself

    The point is that the gods have quite a number of fuckups to their name. I won't call them antagonists, but I think Kormir had it pretty right when she said 'you never needed out help'

    So, because three gods turned evil, the other five we know must be evil too?

    Because that's what was being suggested and countered. Not that the gods are infallible and never evil, but that they as a whole aren't evil.

    Lyssa's pretty unlikely to be evil too, tbh. Balthazar not cursing her could mean a lot of things.

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  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Rockin Twilight Sparkle.2615 said:

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    People thinking the Gods are antagonists is laughable.

    You are aware that basically everything in Guild Wars 1 was Abaddon's fault, right? (I mean, I guess Balthazar was the one who said 'dude the other races will be easy to conquer)
    And did you miss the part where Balthazar was totally fine with destroying the world in the name of throwing down with dragons?
    Grenth deposed Dhuum to take on the mantle of god of death because Dhuuum was, and I quote, 'a prick'

    This is a little less solid, but there's also that whole thing where Bath Salts doesn't curse Lyssa as he dies and the hand mirror that he used to disguise himself was enchanted by Lyssa herself

    The point is that the gods have quite a number of fuckups to their name. I won't call them antagonists, but I think Kormir had it pretty right when she said 'you never needed out help'

    So, because three gods turned evil, the other five we know must be evil too?

    Because that's what was being suggested and countered. Not that the gods are infallible and never evil, but that they as a whole aren't evil.

    Lyssa's pretty unlikely to be evil too, tbh. Balthazar not cursing her could mean a lot of things.

    i probably wouldnt call them evil, they are just perceived to be evil

    all they are doing is what they believed to be the righteous thing to do from their view

    Abaddon = sharing knowledge and magic freely, went to crusade for his view, but got quashed and chained up

    Balthazar = wanting to stay on Tyria and fight the Elder Dragons, but no one else agrees, took his power taken away and chained up

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  • @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    Oh, gee. You're right, how could I be so blind?

    Of course I'm not referring to the Gods and Ex-Gods that turn into villains, I'm referring to Gods that left Tyria.

    'The gods being antagonists is laughable!'

    hey remember that time where the gods were antagonists

    'no no those don't count'

    Did Bath Salts also 'leave' and then come back? Them leaving only means they're not still watching Tyria
    Theres also something to be said for a lack of action thats as bad or worse then an action

  • To clarify: It is a LOT more satisfying to actually do things ourselves and not have the option to throw the gods at them
    But it still bears a level of justification to explain WHY. The gods not having Tyria's best intentions in mind could be such a justification, there's a precedent for it. Is it likely? Eh. But then, its not like Tyria is the first world that they kitten up and were like 'mulligan'
    If you believe the Garden of the Gods, they're in the process of doing that right now (at least they're doing it for humans, hopefully others get to come along for the ride?)
    I'm not sure that I can call the 'hey third time is the charm' exactly 'good' policy.

  • @Rockin Twilight Sparkle.2615 said:

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    Oh, gee. You're right, how could I be so blind?

    Of course I'm not referring to the Gods and Ex-Gods that turn into villains, I'm referring to Gods that left Tyria.

    'The gods being antagonists is laughable!'

    hey remember that time where the gods were antagonists

    'no no those don't count'

    Did Bath Salts also 'leave' and then come back? Them leaving only means they're not still watching Tyria
    Theres also something to be said for a lack of action thats as bad or worse then an action

    Not only are you twisting words, you're omitting lore. Garden of the Gods explicitly states that the Six Gods are looking for a new inhabitable world without world-shattering threats like Elder Dragons, and that once they do they'll return to bring people to that new world.

    Most likely there's an addendum of "if the Forgotten's plan fails" since it's heavily hinted that the Six knows of Glint's Legacy.

    If they acted directly, the world would be in far more danger, since not only would their battles with the Elder Dragons devastate the landscape (just as how when they fought among eachother the Crystal Sea turned into the Crystal Desert), while their victory (before Glint's Legacy is ready) or loss would mean world destruction outright.

    So there is no lack of action. The Six Gods are performing Plan B (find new home), because their presence and assistance hinders Plan A (replace the Elder Dragons).

    All these squares make a circle.
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  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Rockin Twilight Sparkle.2615 said:

    @ThatOddOne.4387 said:
    Oh, gee. You're right, how could I be so blind?

    Of course I'm not referring to the Gods and Ex-Gods that turn into villains, I'm referring to Gods that left Tyria.

    'The gods being antagonists is laughable!'

    hey remember that time where the gods were antagonists

    'no no those don't count'

    Did Bath Salts also 'leave' and then come back? Them leaving only means they're not still watching Tyria
    Theres also something to be said for a lack of action thats as bad or worse then an action

    Not only are you twisting words, you're omitting lore. Garden of the Gods explicitly states that the Six Gods are looking for a new inhabitable world without world-shattering threats like Elder Dragons, and that once they do they'll return to bring people to that new world.

    Most likely there's an addendum of "if the Forgotten's plan fails" since it's heavily hinted that the Six knows of Glint's Legacy.

    If they acted directly, the world would be in far more danger, since not only would their battles with the Elder Dragons devastate the landscape (just as how when they fought among eachother the Crystal Sea turned into the Crystal Desert), while their victory (before Glint's Legacy is ready) or loss would mean world destruction outright.

    So there is no lack of action. The Six Gods are performing Plan B (find new home), because their presence and assistance hinders Plan A (replace the Elder Dragons).

    Konig, all you are doing is pulling stuffs out of lore (like you always do), and this is totally on the presumption the human gods believe the threat of the Elder Dragons to be contained within the world of Tyria

    the topic is speculation on why the human gods not acting on now Kalk is now capable to traverse outside the world of Tyria and into the Mist, which may mean Kalk possible capable to going to different worlds via the Rift in the future

    so keep on throwing old lores written in the old days of GW1 isn't helping the community to speculate and share new ideas and theories
    just like Anet's writers, they arent fully sticking to the old lores, that's why there are discrepancies in the lores we read

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  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    I wasn't even referencing the OP, but the person who was derailing the topic with "all of the gods are evil".

    Also, from GW1, seriously? Try Path of Fire. They plot that effectively started this discussion.

    My opinion on the matter of the OP has been stated: they're not doing kitten about Kralkatorrik because they're not omniscient, they probably don't even know that Kralkatorrik is rampaging in the Mists surrounding Tyria. And even if they did somehow know about Kralkatorrik invading their former campsites in the Mists, Kralkatorrik is still technically confined to Tyria's neighboring regions, thus not an immediate threat to them, and still viable to be defeated by mortals utilizing the Glint's Legacy plan.

    If they came in to save the day without a replacement, they're still destroying Tyria, which negates the entire purpose of them leaving. They wouldn't step in, I'm certain, until Kralkatorrik leaves the areas surrounding Tyria. By which point, Tyria would likely be destroyed, due to Kralkatorrik's absence furthering the imbalance of The All (no doubt having the same effect as killing Kralkatorrik).

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  • ThatOddOne.4387ThatOddOne.4387 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    "Glint: The Forgotten told me much, but not everything... What did they tell the Six? What do the gods know that I do not?" Is the quote Konig is referring to, for those who can't be bothered reading through the link he gave.

    I think we can safely assume there is/was cooperation between Glint, the Forgotten and the Gods.

    kitten, I forget how excited I got at the end point of this mission when first playing it. Meeting only Kormir was a partial disappointment.

  • I still wouldn't call garden of the gods a reliable source. The person comes off as a bit unhinged. The other mistake I see is all gods are fallible isn't the same as saying all are evil. We've also literally had an Anet writer say something along the lines of power corrupts in regards to Balthazar. At this point considering they're fallible and everything else we've learned, I think expecting them to be paragons of good is the more unrealistic viewpoint.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    the main reason is that narrative of they simple come in and solve things would be extremely cheap and will cause cry rivers of "they steal my protagonism",......, if gods come to scene will be probably a "indirect" help, like come to help expel kralkatorrik from the mists or trap him. and it would not be a new thing, in GW1 or GW2 lore the gods intervention is limited just to a "lending a hand".

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

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