Rank all the classes for most OP WvW 1 vs 1 impromptu fights beginning 2019 (External Poll) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Rank all the classes for most OP WvW 1 vs 1 impromptu fights beginning 2019 (External Poll)

EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited January 11, 2019 in WvW

Thanks everyone for the passionate responses in the other thread for most OP class in WvW roaming, all things considered.
The earlier poll is reaching 100 votes and I thought it would be fun to have a new one for most OP class in 1 vs 1 impromptu fights when roaming and see if it differs from the other poll.

I understand among classes there are a multitude of builds that perform better or worse in different matchups which would make this hard to rank.

I suggest we could perhaps base it on our own experience/knowledge on the most recent commonly used builds across all the classes.
And based on these commonly used builds, which are the classes who are best able to handle the varied matchups across all classes/builds.
Classes that either have an overwhelming advantage in various matchups or the least hard-counters/soft-counters match-up when engaging in these varied 1 vs 1 impromptu fights.
Similar skill levels considered.

Impromptu fights meaning it is not an arranged duel where they bow and change builds and try to counter each other.
Impromptu meaning they roam with their usual roaming builds and meet each other while roaming and engage in a fight spontaneously.

Of course, if you have your own thoughts on how it should be evaluated, please feel free to rank as you wish.

Poll link here:
http://www.polljunkie.com/poll/ysxpyk/most-op-wvw-1-vs-1-class-starting-2019

Poll results here:
http://www.polljunkie.com/poll/wxwdxs/most-op-wvw-1-vs-1-class-starting-2019/view

A Hermit's Tale - To The Edge of the Mists [Link Here]

Comments

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019

    These are the poll results for Most OP roaming class (all aspects of roaming considered) after a total of 102 votes.
    Will be fun when we compare this ranking with their actual 1 vs 1 impromptu combat strength poll results (currently at 36 votes) =D

    Most OP Roaming Class (all aspects of roaming considered) (102 votes)
    1.7 Mesmer
    2.8 Ranger
    3.0 Thief
    4.8 Engineer
    5.0 Warrior
    5.7 Revenant
    6.7 Guardian
    6.9 Elementalist
    8.3 Necro

    Most OP 1 vs 1 Impromptu combat strength (36 votes)
    2.4 Mesmer
    2.7 Ranger
    3.2 Engineer
    4.2 Thief
    5.5 Revenant
    5.5 Elementalist
    5.8 Warrior
    7.2 Guardian
    8.4 Necro

    A Hermit's Tale - To The Edge of the Mists [Link Here]

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019

    Necro is 8.3 and not a flat 9 only because it defaults on top of the list and people can't be bothered to sort the irrelevant bottom four.

    ;>.>

    edit- The result of these polls is an almost perfect representation of reverse utility in zergs, apart from the mesmer of course.

    Fort Aspenwood,
    Ranger, Necromancer.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Most OP 1 vs 1 combat strength rankings as we pass the 50 votes mark.

    Personally I'm surprised engineer isn't first ranked because holosmith seems to have no hard or even soft counters currently. They also hard counters most thieves and soft counters some Mirage builds.

    Though the top 3 are very close in scores.

    2.5Mesmer
    2.6Ranger
    3.1Engineer
    4.4Thief
    5.4Revenant
    5.7Warrior
    6.0Elementalist
    7.2Guardian
    8.2Necro

    A Hermit's Tale - To The Edge of the Mists [Link Here]

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019

    So revs,guards and warrior are below thief in 1v1? Seems right lol

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    So revs,guards and warrior are below thief in 1v1? Seems right lol

    thats because of 2 reasons:
    1)the poll here is for spontaneous fights, not duels.
    rev, guard, warrior are better when fighting with limited time and limited space. but when you remove those limits a thief will become much stronger.
    2) keep in mind the poll does not seperate between various builds a PROFESSION can have, wich includes all variants of core and especs. a pretty wide array if you ask me.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    Most OP 1 vs 1 combat strength rankings as we pass the 50 votes mark.

    Personally I'm surprised engineer isn't first ranked because holosmith seems to have no hard or even soft counters currently. They also hard counters most thieves and soft counters some Mirage builds.

    Though the top 3 are very close in scores.

    2.5Mesmer
    2.6Ranger
    3.1Engineer
    4.4Thief
    5.4Revenant
    5.7Warrior
    6.0Elementalist
    7.2Guardian
    8.2Necro

    I am glad to see Revenant ended up where it did. You don't see it quite as often as many of the others, but it is deserving of a higher placement. It has all the necessary tools of a good roamer and if played well, is on the winning side of many matches.

    By no means do I consider myself a good Revenant (or player in general), but I have been playing it exclusively for a few months now and feel substantially more confident solo than I did with anything else I've played. Even Ranger and Engineer despite their higher placement on the list. With so much in combat mobility, damage and defense negation, the only thing I really fear are condition tanks. And even those can be disposed of pretty quickly with the exception of Mesmers.

    If Rev had better cleanse and was easier to 1vX with, I'd go so far as to say it should be placed one higher. But because it has some severe weaknesses, I think it's fair where it is. The rest of the list actually looks quite good too. I'm surprised to see how accurate the community poll has been, honestly.

    [HUNT] | Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer, Revenant | Kaineng | Diamond Legend
    Times change and people change with'm, some people love to play the victim ... ♫

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    Most OP 1 vs 1 combat strength rankings as we pass the 50 votes mark.

    Personally I'm surprised engineer isn't first ranked because holosmith seems to have no hard or even soft counters currently. They also hard counters most thieves and soft counters some Mirage builds.

    Though the top 3 are very close in scores.

    2.5Mesmer
    2.6Ranger
    3.1Engineer
    4.4Thief
    5.4Revenant
    5.7Warrior
    6.0Elementalist
    7.2Guardian
    8.2Necro

    I am surprised mesmer isn't higher, there's some condi mirage builds that are really stupid 1v1 and AFAIK has no bad matchup (power ones have some bad matchups otherwise pretty close in power level) , imo thief should move up one, also surprised thief isn't one higher as it just completely destroys the classes it's good against.

    Engi imo is the most overrated class for 1v1s, it's def good, it's just that basically every class can reasonably kill one (even if they might be slightly unfavored). It's also rather rare to see in WvW

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • SpellOfIniquity.1780SpellOfIniquity.1780 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    I am surprised mesmer isn't higher, there's some condi mirage builds that are really stupid 1v1 and AFAIK has no bad matchup (power ones have some bad matchups otherwise pretty close in power level) , imo thief should move up one, also surprised thief isn't one higher as it just completely destroys the classes it's good against.

    Engi imo is the most overrated class for 1v1s, it's def good, it's just that basically every class can reasonably kill one (even if they might be slightly unfavored). It's also rather rare to see in WvW

    I agree about Engineer. I feel it's placed one too high, probably because of the handful of players that use the Boon bruiser build that often require a small zerg for it to be killed. It's durable but it's quite easy to kite them to death if you play well. It has a low cooldown leap in Photon Forge but it hardly counts as mobility due to it's extremely short range. The ones that take Rocket Boots are giving up some far better utilities in exchange for mobility which will be a huge handicap in 1v1's. So either it has mobility and is good at running away or it has low mobility and is good in sustained fights.

    It is absolutely strong and a powerful 1v1'er but the strongest build is has lacks a lot of what's needed to survive as a roamer. So I think 4 is a much more accurate place for it with Thief replacing it at 3.

    [HUNT] | Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer, Revenant | Kaineng | Diamond Legend
    Times change and people change with'm, some people love to play the victim ... ♫

  • Haha yeah thief’s are great 1v1,kitten

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019

    U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019

    I’m sry I don’t mean to insult anyone as I definitely am not a great player by any means but if u guys are discussing 1v1 in general thief is not nearly in as good a spot as u guys are making it out to be,DE back stab cheese aside. It’s known to be a good Roamer because it’s mobility and through that mobility can +1 the most efficiently next to mirage. Most of the top players who kno the classes in and out even avoid most 1v1 in comps with thief cuz yeah it time can be utilized better doing other thing but also cuz it’s not worth the risk. I donno all I’ve heard over last couple years is how it’s a +1 class and kitten at 1v1 so has somthing changed?seems like core and DD get constant nurfs and other classes etc like holo,soulbeast and mirage get power crept higher and higher yet its better 1v1 than holo haha yeah in what universe? DE is a effective 1v1 using a perma stealth gimmick back stab build. it has to utilize a cheese mechanic tho what else is it gonna do? U cough on it and it dies lol. I donno sry for the rant just seems funny hearing people going on about thief as a great 1v1

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I’m sry I don’t mean to insult anyone as I definitely am not a great player by any means but if u guys are discussing 1v1 in general thief is not nearly in as good a spot as u guys are making it out to be,DE back stab cheese aside. It’s known to be a good Roamer because it’s mobility and through that mobility can +1 the most efficiently next to mirage. Most of the top players who kno the classes in and out even avoid most 1v1 in comps with thief cuz yeah it time can be utilized better doing other thing but also cuz it’s not worth the risk. I donno all I’ve heard over last couple years is how it’s a +1 class and kitten at 1v1 so has somthing changed?seems like core and DD get constant nurfs and other classes etc like holo,soulbeast and mirage get power crept higher and higher yet its better 1v1 than holo haha yeah in what universe? DE is a effective 1v1 using a perma stealth gimmick back stab build. it has to utilize a cheese mechanic tho what else is it gonna do? U cough on it and it dies lol. I donno sry for the rant just seems funny hearing people going on about thief as a great 1v1

    Yeah and most will use that cheese build just like many mesmers do in order to get "safe" 1v1 fights against people that dont know how to fight them. You can get triggered all you want, it doesnt change the fact that the thief is just as powercreeped as the rest.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

    Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    Most OP 1 vs 1 combat strength rankings as we pass the 50 votes mark.

    Personally I'm surprised engineer isn't first ranked because holosmith seems to have no hard or even soft counters currently. They also hard counters most thieves and soft counters some Mirage builds.

    Though the top 3 are very close in scores.

    2.5Mesmer
    2.6Ranger
    3.1Engineer
    4.4Thief
    5.4Revenant
    5.7Warrior
    6.0Elementalist
    7.2Guardian
    8.2Necro

    I am glad to see Revenant ended up where it did. You don't see it quite as often as many of the others, but it is deserving of a higher placement. It has all the necessary tools of a good roamer and if played well, is on the winning side of many matches.

    By no means do I consider myself a good Revenant (or player in general), but I have been playing it exclusively for a few months now and feel substantially more confident solo than I did with anything else I've played. Even Ranger and Engineer despite their higher placement on the list. With so much in combat mobility, damage and defense negation, the only thing I really fear are condition tanks. And even those can be disposed of pretty quickly with the exception of Mesmers.

    If Rev had better cleanse and was easier to 1vX with, I'd go so far as to say it should be placed one higher. But because it has some severe weaknesses, I think it's fair where it is. The rest of the list actually looks quite good too. I'm surprised to see how accurate the community poll has been, honestly.

    "Severe" weakness? Yeah, true they have like staff #4 as a Condi clear but when you're running around with 15-20 might stacks in no time at all and can engage people just as well as a thief can to nuke people then yeah, they kinda need to be weak vs condis

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    Most OP 1 vs 1 combat strength rankings as we pass the 50 votes mark.

    Personally I'm surprised engineer isn't first ranked because holosmith seems to have no hard or even soft counters currently. They also hard counters most thieves and soft counters some Mirage builds.

    Though the top 3 are very close in scores.

    2.5Mesmer
    2.6Ranger
    3.1Engineer
    4.4Thief
    5.4Revenant
    5.7Warrior
    6.0Elementalist
    7.2Guardian
    8.2Necro

    I am glad to see Revenant ended up where it did. You don't see it quite as often as many of the others, but it is deserving of a higher placement. It has all the necessary tools of a good roamer and if played well, is on the winning side of many matches.

    By no means do I consider myself a good Revenant (or player in general), but I have been playing it exclusively for a few months now and feel substantially more confident solo than I did with anything else I've played. Even Ranger and Engineer despite their higher placement on the list. With so much in combat mobility, damage and defense negation, the only thing I really fear are condition tanks. And even those can be disposed of pretty quickly with the exception of Mesmers.

    If Rev had better cleanse and was easier to 1vX with, I'd go so far as to say it should be placed one higher. But because it has some severe weaknesses, I think it's fair where it is. The rest of the list actually looks quite good too. I'm surprised to see how accurate the community poll has been, honestly.

    "Severe" weakness? Yeah, true they have like staff #4 as a Condi clear but when you're running around with 15-20 might stacks in no time at all and can engage people just as well as a thief can to nuke people then yeah, they kinda need to be weak vs condis

  • @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    Most OP 1 vs 1 combat strength rankings as we pass the 50 votes mark.

    Personally I'm surprised engineer isn't first ranked because holosmith seems to have no hard or even soft counters currently. They also hard counters most thieves and soft counters some Mirage builds.

    Though the top 3 are very close in scores.

    2.5Mesmer
    2.6Ranger
    3.1Engineer
    4.4Thief
    5.4Revenant
    5.7Warrior
    6.0Elementalist
    7.2Guardian
    8.2Necro

    I am glad to see Revenant ended up where it did. You don't see it quite as often as many of the others, but it is deserving of a higher placement. It has all the necessary tools of a good roamer and if played well, is on the winning side of many matches.

    By no means do I consider myself a good Revenant (or player in general), but I have been playing it exclusively for a few months now and feel substantially more confident solo than I did with anything else I've played. Even Ranger and Engineer despite their higher placement on the list. With so much in combat mobility, damage and defense negation, the only thing I really fear are condition tanks. And even those can be disposed of pretty quickly with the exception of Mesmers.

    If Rev had better cleanse and was easier to 1vX with, I'd go so far as to say it should be placed one higher. But because it has some severe weaknesses, I think it's fair where it is. The rest of the list actually looks quite good too. I'm surprised to see how accurate the community poll has been, honestly.

    "Severe" weakness? Yeah, true they have like staff #4 as a Condi clear but when you're running around with 15-20 might stacks in no time at all and can engage people just as well as a thief can to nuke people then yeah, they kinda need to be weak vs condis

    Conditions are one of those weaknesses, yes. The other is sustained fights. Revenant has a lot of trouble in fights that drag on despite having low cooldowns on many of their skills. It is substantially more difficult to win outnumbered fights with Rev than it is some of the other classes because you simply can not avoid, heal or block every damaging attack. Things like Thief, Mesmer, Warrior, Engineer, etc. can handle outnumbered fights better because they can recover from attacks they can't avoid through various means. Rev really doesn't have that option. It has one long cooldown heal with Glint that has potential to turn a fight in it's favor, but will very rarely do so. Most times, all it does is grant the Rev either enough time to escape or prolong their inevitable death a little longer.

    Rev is extremely strong 1v1 to the point it should be winning the majority of it's fights, regardless of what it's fighting, if it's played well. But for outnumbered fights, all it has going for it is a lot of evades and teleports. It's just not likely to win if it commits to a fight because it only has one chance to reset with Infuse Light. Every bit of damage it takes after that is going to be very hard to recover from.

    [HUNT] | Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer, Revenant | Kaineng | Diamond Legend
    Times change and people change with'm, some people love to play the victim ... ♫

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    Most OP 1 vs 1 combat strength rankings as we pass the 50 votes mark.

    Personally I'm surprised engineer isn't first ranked because holosmith seems to have no hard or even soft counters currently. They also hard counters most thieves and soft counters some Mirage builds.

    Though the top 3 are very close in scores.

    2.5Mesmer
    2.6Ranger
    3.1Engineer
    4.4Thief
    5.4Revenant
    5.7Warrior
    6.0Elementalist
    7.2Guardian
    8.2Necro

    I am glad to see Revenant ended up where it did. You don't see it quite as often as many of the others, but it is deserving of a higher placement. It has all the necessary tools of a good roamer and if played well, is on the winning side of many matches.

    By no means do I consider myself a good Revenant (or player in general), but I have been playing it exclusively for a few months now and feel substantially more confident solo than I did with anything else I've played. Even Ranger and Engineer despite their higher placement on the list. With so much in combat mobility, damage and defense negation, the only thing I really fear are condition tanks. And even those can be disposed of pretty quickly with the exception of Mesmers.

    If Rev had better cleanse and was easier to 1vX with, I'd go so far as to say it should be placed one higher. But because it has some severe weaknesses, I think it's fair where it is. The rest of the list actually looks quite good too. I'm surprised to see how accurate the community poll has been, honestly.

    "Severe" weakness? Yeah, true they have like staff #4 as a Condi clear but when you're running around with 15-20 might stacks in no time at all and can engage people just as well as a thief can to nuke people then yeah, they kinda need to be weak vs condis

    Conditions are one of those weaknesses, yes. The other is sustained fights. Revenant has a lot of trouble in fights that drag on despite having low cooldowns on many of their skills. It is substantially more difficult to win outnumbered fights with Rev than it is some of the other classes because you simply can not avoid, heal or block every damaging attack. Things like Thief, Mesmer, Warrior, Engineer, etc. can handle outnumbered fights better because they can recover from attacks they can't avoid through various means. Rev really doesn't have that option. It has one long cooldown heal with Glint that has potential to turn a fight in it's favor, but will very rarely do so. Most times, all it does is grant the Rev either enough time to escape or prolong their inevitable death a little longer.

    Rev is extremely strong 1v1 to the point it should be winning the majority of it's fights, regardless of what it's fighting, if it's played well. But for outnumbered fights, all it has going for it is a lot of evades and teleports. It's just not likely to win if it commits to a fight because it only has one chance to reset with Infuse Light. Every bit of damage it takes after that is going to be very hard to recover from.

    Wait, but thievs and power mesmer at least, can't take hits or recover mid fight at all, they have to port away and reset and that's where the qq comes into play about how "op" they are. Fight them in a camp and it's a totally different ball game - assuming they are the classes thats defending the camps.

  • @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    Most OP 1 vs 1 combat strength rankings as we pass the 50 votes mark.

    Personally I'm surprised engineer isn't first ranked because holosmith seems to have no hard or even soft counters currently. They also hard counters most thieves and soft counters some Mirage builds.

    Though the top 3 are very close in scores.

    2.5Mesmer
    2.6Ranger
    3.1Engineer
    4.4Thief
    5.4Revenant
    5.7Warrior
    6.0Elementalist
    7.2Guardian
    8.2Necro

    I am glad to see Revenant ended up where it did. You don't see it quite as often as many of the others, but it is deserving of a higher placement. It has all the necessary tools of a good roamer and if played well, is on the winning side of many matches.

    By no means do I consider myself a good Revenant (or player in general), but I have been playing it exclusively for a few months now and feel substantially more confident solo than I did with anything else I've played. Even Ranger and Engineer despite their higher placement on the list. With so much in combat mobility, damage and defense negation, the only thing I really fear are condition tanks. And even those can be disposed of pretty quickly with the exception of Mesmers.

    If Rev had better cleanse and was easier to 1vX with, I'd go so far as to say it should be placed one higher. But because it has some severe weaknesses, I think it's fair where it is. The rest of the list actually looks quite good too. I'm surprised to see how accurate the community poll has been, honestly.

    "Severe" weakness? Yeah, true they have like staff #4 as a Condi clear but when you're running around with 15-20 might stacks in no time at all and can engage people just as well as a thief can to nuke people then yeah, they kinda need to be weak vs condis

    Conditions are one of those weaknesses, yes. The other is sustained fights. Revenant has a lot of trouble in fights that drag on despite having low cooldowns on many of their skills. It is substantially more difficult to win outnumbered fights with Rev than it is some of the other classes because you simply can not avoid, heal or block every damaging attack. Things like Thief, Mesmer, Warrior, Engineer, etc. can handle outnumbered fights better because they can recover from attacks they can't avoid through various means. Rev really doesn't have that option. It has one long cooldown heal with Glint that has potential to turn a fight in it's favor, but will very rarely do so. Most times, all it does is grant the Rev either enough time to escape or prolong their inevitable death a little longer.

    Rev is extremely strong 1v1 to the point it should be winning the majority of it's fights, regardless of what it's fighting, if it's played well. But for outnumbered fights, all it has going for it is a lot of evades and teleports. It's just not likely to win if it commits to a fight because it only has one chance to reset with Infuse Light. Every bit of damage it takes after that is going to be very hard to recover from.

    Wait, but thievs and power mesmer at least, can't take hits or recover mid fight at all, they have to port away and reset and that's where the qq comes into play about how "op" they are. Fight them in a camp and it's a totally different ball game - assuming they are the classes thats defending the camps.

    Not to mention when a thief resets it’s also giving time for the opponents to reset as well

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

    Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif.

    Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once

  • @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

    Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif.

    Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once

    Reaper really needs some more defensive options,shroud amounts to little defense these days. Maybe a block and a little buff in mobility even if it’s just insta tele to worm to help relieve pressure

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

    Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif.

    Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once

    Not talking about deadeye.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

    Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif.

    Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once

    Not talking about deadeye.

    Yeah. And I'm talking about daredevil

  • DE is powercrept along with the other classes but a lot of long time thief mains don’t enjoy DE playstyle, relying on stealth and having to constantly stack it to not be at a disadvantage. I don’t see how fighting a DE could be enjoyable for anyone let alone enjoyable to play as,backstab and unloading from stealth can only be fun for so long lol. But what are the option? U roam or join zergs as core or DD and +1 and scout for ur team. If ur a s/d thief or staff DD you are not gonna win any non +1 fights against any competent player that’s using any class other than mesmer or necro unless u are in a small percentage of players where u can win disadvantaged fights thru skill alone which even that begins not to matter against some builds. Thief isn’t alone, Same thing is happening to engineers class. Holo is powercrept and core is left way behind so engineers can’t enjoy the class they’ve invested heavily into if they don’t enjoy holo? Atleast speaking of being effective while enjoying the class I mean lol. It’s easy to say well if u don’t enjoy the one spec that’s been powercrept by arenet than pick a different class but that disregards all the investments they’ve put in said class. I just hope arenet starts looking at classes as a whole and not make balance decisions based off the one spec (newest) they have chose to powercreep ie nurfing classes the community out cries for in ways that don’t deal with the issues causing the communities discontent but instead nurfing other specs in the profession that are already weak making only the newest spec substantially more effective than the others.1v1 fights against any thief spec other than DE would be a lot more fun for other players to fight against lol, same for ele and engi

  • @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

    Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif.

    Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once

    Not talking about deadeye.

    Yeah. And I'm talking about daredevil

    A good thief in any spec hard counters necro,unless it gets caught in a scourges aoe Condi spam, which it shouldn’t unless poor positioning

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

    Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif.

    Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once

    Not talking about deadeye.

    Yeah. And I'm talking about daredevil

    I don't remember seeing a "good" delaredevil effortlessly beat, let alone not get hit as you say vs a reaper since way, way before pof, way before dash got nerfed, pi got nerfed, AA got nerfed.

  • Halo,soulbeast, mirage and warrior rule the 1v1’s Eles and thief’s have to out play their opponents unless they are against the few they counter, or players not aware of their surroundings, been ganked by few DE’s but if they fail the burst which is often their dead or they run because they can’t do anything else lol.guards are great 1v1 aswell just don’t have any disengaging capabilities unless dh and even then not good of pressured by out numbered fights that consist of classes with better mobility. People complain about thiefs ability to reset even though their sustain is to low to stay and fight and lets be real here, these days classes like holo,soulbeast mirage list goes on can reset mid fight while laughing, they don’t need to reposition lol

  • @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

    Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif.

    Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once

    Not talking about deadeye.

    Yeah. And I'm talking about daredevil

    I don't remember seeing a "good" delaredevil effortlessly beat, let alone not get hit as you say vs a reaper since way, way before pof, way before dash got nerfed, pi got nerfed, AA got nerfed.

    If u get coughs by shroud 2 or 4 than DD gets chewed fast but if u use ur mobility to bait them out u can take them down pretty easy as their other skill casts are so slow. But yeah those to skills hit real hard lol but considering their poor mobility that’s fine in my book

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

    Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif.

    Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once

    Not talking about deadeye.

    Yeah. And I'm talking about daredevil

    I don't remember seeing a "good" delaredevil effortlessly beat, let alone not get hit as you say vs a reaper since way, way before pof, way before dash got nerfed, pi got nerfed, AA got nerfed.

    If u get coughs by shroud 2 or 4 than DD gets chewed fast but if u use ur mobility to bait them out u can take them down pretty easy as their other skill casts are so slow. But yeah those to skills hit real hard lol but considering their poor mobility that’s fine in my book

    Poor mobility out side of combat sure. Though in combat, some reapers are actually moving to runes of speed, and with an #5 and spectual walk, they are far from slow in combat

  • Emi.4152Emi.4152 Member ✭✭

    I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience.

    Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that
    Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose
    Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance?
    Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think.
    Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev
    Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~
    Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game
    Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so...

    yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?"

    the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

    Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif.

    Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once

    Not talking about deadeye.

    Yeah. And I'm talking about daredevil

    I don't remember seeing a "good" delaredevil effortlessly beat, let alone not get hit as you say vs a reaper since way, way before pof, way before dash got nerfed, pi got nerfed, AA got nerfed.

    If u get coughs by shroud 2 or 4 than DD gets chewed fast but if u use ur mobility to bait them out u can take them down pretty easy as their other skill casts are so slow. But yeah those to skills hit real hard lol but considering their poor mobility that’s fine in my book

    Poor mobility out side of combat sure. Though in combat, some reapers are actually moving to runes of speed, and with an #5 and spectual walk, they are far from slow in combat

    While that’s 100% true and a great use of the runes other classes in which most already have far more built in combat mobility have access to those very runes aswell, or can opt to use different runes for a different set of bonuses while maintaining great in combat mobility thus still making reapers in combat mobility less. Using a rune as a band aid to raise a classes in combat mobility to a level where it can compete with other classes points to a problem with the class itself in my eyes. I don’t play reaper much these days cuz feels like ur running around in concrete boots lol and swinging the gs feels realistically weighty which is a disadvantage against classes that can swing them like there styrofoam,withought constantly having to Proc a boon to proc a rune lol

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2019

    @Emi.4152 said:
    I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience.

    Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that
    Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose
    Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance?
    Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think.
    Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev
    Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~
    Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game
    Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so...

    yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?"

    the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag.

    Exactly lol I’m not a good player compared to a lot of the skilled guys out there but my ranger and guard which I roam mostly on love seeing thiefs alone lol they pose a threat rarely only if all their burst somehow hits me and if they make zero mistakes, if they don’t run off that is lol. Like I said I’m not great so I make mistakes often and still down them easy,5 or less hits thier dead lol. Their great Roamer to +1 and to get from A to B but at actual fighting they suck lol hense all the resets and only a highly skilled player that know their opponents class as well as they kno the thief class itself stand a chance in most 1v1 fights. Other than perma stealth DE ganks but again if that burst fails they run allowing us both to reset lol

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Emi.4152 said:
    I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience.

    Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that
    Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose
    Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance?
    Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think.
    Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev
    Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~
    Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game
    Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so...

    yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?"

    the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag.

    I would be inclined to side with your analysis of thief if I had not seen a highly skilled thief in action.

    I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts.
    I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%.
    It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds.

    A Hermit's Tale - To The Edge of the Mists [Link Here]

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts.
    I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%.
    It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds.

    I had a duel on S/P thief with a boonbeast. It was a 10 minute stall match. No chance of killing each other. We both moved on then.

    I doubt S/P can reliably kill that cancerbeast. Sword is too static and predicable. Just move to 1200 range to recover (ez for a boonbeast) and the thief can't reach you anymore with instant bursts as long as steal is on cooldown.

    So I think your boonbeast had pretty bad positioning.

  • @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @Emi.4152 said:
    I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience.

    Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that
    Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose
    Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance?
    Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think.
    Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev
    Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~
    Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game
    Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so...

    yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?"

    the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag.

    I would be inclined to side with your analysis of thief if I had not seen a highly skilled thief in action.

    I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts.
    I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%.
    It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds.

    That would have been cool to see for sure. Thing is that player is probably skilled enough on most classes and do the same. Thing is if u need to be at a very high skill level to be effective and stand a chance against most classes and the fact thief is known for that compared to other professions makes a statement in on itself

  • @KrHome.1920 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts.
    I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%.
    It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds.

    I had a duel on S/P thief with a boonbeast. It was a 10 minute stall match. No chance of killing each other. We both moved on then.

    I doubt S/P can reliably kill that cancerbeast. Sword is too static and predicable. Just move to 1200 range to recover (ez for a boonbeast) and the thief can't reach you anymore with instant bursts as long as steal is on cooldown.

    So I think your boonbeast had pretty bad positioning.

    U sir are a very good player to pose a draw on boonbeast.

  • Emi.4152Emi.4152 Member ✭✭

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @Emi.4152 said:
    I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience.

    Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that
    Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose
    Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance?
    Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think.
    Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev
    Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~
    Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game
    Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so...

    yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?"

    the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag.

    I would be inclined to side with your analysis of thief if I had not seen a highly skilled thief in action.

    I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts.
    I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%.
    It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds.

    i mean.. no offense but... how often do you see that happen? yes, i've seen 1 thief beat a big bad boonbeast therefore thief must be a strong 1 v 1er. there's a gap in logic there somewhere...

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Emi.4152 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @Emi.4152 said:
    I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience.

    Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that
    Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose
    Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance?
    Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think.
    Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev
    Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~
    Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game
    Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so...

    yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?"

    the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag.

    I would be inclined to side with your analysis of thief if I had not seen a highly skilled thief in action.

    I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts.
    I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%.
    It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds.

    i mean.. no offense but... how often do you see that happen? yes, i've seen 1 thief beat a big bad boonbeast therefore thief must be a strong 1 v 1er. there's a gap in logic there somewhere...

    Yes, the gap in logic is your average personal experience in your average tier with the enemies you meet on average vs the known capabilities of the class in the hands of good players.

    The class should be judged on the latter.

    Its like... I can beat 9 out of 10 condi mirages I meet in a 1v1. Because I bring cleanse. And I can also beat 9 out of 10 thieves. Because I bring sustain.

    Should I argue that the mesmer and thief is the worst 1v1 classes based on how often I see good players?

    No because thats not really representative of the capabilities of the class. The good players set the standard. Anything else just indicate how easy it is against players that cant fight the class.

  • Emi.4152Emi.4152 Member ✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Emi.4152 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @Emi.4152 said:
    I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience.

    Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that
    Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose
    Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance?
    Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think.
    Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev
    Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~
    Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game
    Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so...

    yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?"

    the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag.

    I would be inclined to side with your analysis of thief if I had not seen a highly skilled thief in action.

    I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts.
    I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%.
    It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds.

    i mean.. no offense but... how often do you see that happen? yes, i've seen 1 thief beat a big bad boonbeast therefore thief must be a strong 1 v 1er. there's a gap in logic there somewhere...

    Yes, the gap in logic is your average personal experience in your average tier with the enemies you meet on average vs the known capabilities of the class in the hands of good players.

    The class should be judged on the latter.

    Its like... I can beat 9 out of 10 condi mirages I meet in a 1v1. Because I bring cleanse. And I can also beat 9 out of 10 thieves. Because I bring sustain.

    Should I argue that the mesmer and thief is the worst 1v1 classes based on how often I see good players?

    No because thats not really representative of the capabilities of the class. The good players set the standard. Anything else just indicate how easy it is against players that cant fight the class.

    I'm not entirely sure what you're arguing for or against Oo

    granted, balancing for the top level players makes a certain amount of sense, but should not be the only thing that balance should be based on?

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Emi.4152 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @Emi.4152 said:
    I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience.

    Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that
    Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose
    Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance?
    Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think.
    Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev
    Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~
    Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game
    Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so...

    yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?"

    the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag.

    I would be inclined to side with your analysis of thief if I had not seen a highly skilled thief in action.

    I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts.
    I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%.
    It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds.

    i mean.. no offense but... how often do you see that happen? yes, i've seen 1 thief beat a big bad boonbeast therefore thief must be a strong 1 v 1er. there's a gap in logic there somewhere...

    Yes, the gap in logic is your average personal experience in your average tier with the enemies you meet on average vs the known capabilities of the class in the hands of good players.

    The class should be judged on the latter.

    Its like... I can beat 9 out of 10 condi mirages I meet in a 1v1. Because I bring cleanse. And I can also beat 9 out of 10 thieves. Because I bring sustain.

    Should I argue that the mesmer and thief is the worst 1v1 classes based on how often I see good players?

    No because thats not really representative of the capabilities of the class. The good players set the standard. Anything else just indicate how easy it is against players that cant fight the class.

    Yeah no! If a player has to be really skilled to play a class and be as effective as all other classes with average players than somthing is wrong,like ur logic. I’ve seen great core necro’s so gues there in a great spot to. We’ve all seen great players on all classes so by u and few others logic thier all in great spots lol so gues balance achieved,good job arenet lol

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    A great player can polish any kitten lol

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Halo,soulbeast, mirage and warrior rule the 1v1’s Eles and thief’s have to out play their opponents unless they are against the few they counter, or players not aware of their surroundings, been ganked by few DE’s but if they fail the burst which is often their dead or they run because they can’t do anything else lol.guards are great 1v1 aswell just don’t have any disengaging capabilities unless dh and even then not good of pressured by out numbered fights that consist of classes with better mobility. People complain about thiefs ability to reset even though their sustain is to low to stay and fight and lets be real here, these days classes like holo,soulbeast mirage list goes on can reset mid fight while laughing, they don’t need to reposition lol

    Hahaha the times of warrior being on a number one spot in 1v1s are long gone, what year are you playing at? 2013?

  • @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Halo,soulbeast, mirage and warrior rule the 1v1’s Eles and thief’s have to out play their opponents unless they are against the few they counter, or players not aware of their surroundings, been ganked by few DE’s but if they fail the burst which is often their dead or they run because they can’t do anything else lol.guards are great 1v1 aswell just don’t have any disengaging capabilities unless dh and even then not good of pressured by out numbered fights that consist of classes with better mobility. People complain about thiefs ability to reset even though their sustain is to low to stay and fight and lets be real here, these days classes like holo,soulbeast mirage list goes on can reset mid fight while laughing, they don’t need to reposition lol

    Hahaha the times of warrior being on a number one spot in 1v1s are long gone, what year are you playing at? 2013?

    Who said warrior was #1? I believe I said mirage,ranger,engi(holo) and warrior last. So u think in 1v1 sbr or core warrior don’t fare well against necro,thief and guard? Sry I forgot to put rev in list lol

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I’ve seen great core necro’s so gues there in a great spot to. We’ve all seen great players on all classes so by u and few others logic thier all in great spots lol so gues balance achieved,good job arenet lol

    See, you do understand it.

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I’ve seen great core necro’s so gues there in a great spot to. We’ve all seen great players on all classes so by u and few others logic thier all in great spots lol so gues balance achieved,good job arenet lol

    See, you do understand it.

    Haha I think I do! The way forums are around here DE must be most balanced of all,seems like a lot of players are performing well on it and are using it to its potential lol thanks for changing my outlook :)

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

    Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif.

    Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once

    Not talking about deadeye.

    Yeah. And I'm talking about daredevil

    I don't remember seeing a "good" delaredevil effortlessly beat, let alone not get hit as you say vs a reaper since way, way before pof, way before dash got nerfed, pi got nerfed, AA got nerfed.

    Then you must simply not see many good or even mediocre daredevils. Reaper vs Thief (de, dd or core) is probably the most lopsided matchup in the game. Since the recent big reaper nerf it's even sillier as reaper can't just spiteful spirit+procs to at least kill terrible thieves.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    I saw a sword pistol core thief defeat a skilled boonbeast 1 on 1 with well timed interrupts and bursts.
    I've seen that boonbeast dueling others and his win rate was usually at least 90%.
    It was just mind-blowing at a stage when everyone (except corrupt necros) seems to be struggling against boonbeast builds, which are becoming just as prevalent as LB builds.

    I had a duel on S/P thief with a boonbeast. It was a 10 minute stall match. No chance of killing each other. We both moved on then.

    I doubt S/P can reliably kill that cancerbeast. Sword is too static and predicable. Just move to 1200 range to recover (ez for a boonbeast) and the thief can't reach you anymore with instant bursts as long as steal is on cooldown.

    So I think your boonbeast had pretty bad positioning.

    U sir are a very good player to pose a draw on boonbeast.

    Does anyone even play boonbeast, it seems terrible for WvW.
    I only encounter one ever few days even while roaming a few hours a day, and I can't recall actually dying to one... The build seems very overhyped for WvW.

    Even if it was good it doesn't seem that cancer to fight, a build with medium tankiness, healing and damage seems like an overall very fair build.

    @Emi.4152 said:
    I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience.

    Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that
    Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose
    Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance?
    Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think.
    Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev
    Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~
    Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game
    Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so...

    yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?"

    the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag.

    Disagree on this. Thief def earns at least 4th spot. You can beat most classes 1v1 if good.

    Warrior is way better than 50/50, depending a bit on build
    Necro is more like 95/5 if both are remotely good, there's just no counterplay the necro can really do
    Guardian should be easy
    Rev I can't say honestly, haven't really played the MU
    Ele varies a lot depending on build
    Holo generally counters thief I believe, found them easy to kill on my holo at least.
    Condi mirage is good vs Thief, Power mirage isn't great, but not awful
    Ranger I am not certain, I'd have to imagine it's in the rangers favor

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2019

    Rangers and thieves explode each other. I can 100->0 a glass thief with the press of two buttons on my zerk SB (assuming they forget where their dodge key is) but I'm running a build that can be 2 shot by those same thieves if they happen to get the drop -- and they have a lot of tools to allow them to get the drop. The fight ends quickly, regardless. To say "ranger hardcounters thief" would be a lie, at best "ranger stalemates a thief" if they're playing tanky.
    I have a modest 200~ hours or so on my melee daredevil and find the hardest matchups for me are warriors, engineers, druids and dragonhunters (I get so easily baited, and sometimes have difficulty landing that opening blow against their aegis). I'm not sure how, but I have an easier time dealing with mirages on my thief than my ranger. (For that matter I handle them better on my scourge, too. I think its all of the projectile hate mirage has in conjunction with their normal evades.)

    As for the poll, this is my view.

    Mesmer
    Ranger
    Thief
    Warrior
    Engineer
    Revenant
    Guardian
    Necro
    Elementalist

    That's how I voted. Ranger and thief are interchangeable, as are warrior and engineer. I actually have difficulty with warriors and engineers on both my ranger and thief.
    I honestly find roaming necros to be more of a threat than elementalists.

    ~ Kovu

    Fort Aspenwood,
    Ranger, Necromancer.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    Rangers and thieves explode each other. I can 100->0 a glass thief with the press of two buttons on my zerk SB (assuming they forget where their dodge key is) but I'm running a build that can be 2 shot by those same thieves if they happen to get the drop -- and they have a lot of tools to allow them to get the drop. The fight ends quickly, regardless. To say "ranger hardcounters thief" would be a lie, at best "ranger stalemates a thief" if they're playing tanky.
    I have a modest 200~ hours or so on my melee daredevil and find the hardest matchups for me are warriors, engineers, druids and dragonhunters (I get so easily baited, and sometimes have difficulty landing that opening blow against their aegis). I'm not sure how, but I have an easier time dealing with mirages on my thief than my ranger. (For that matter I handle them better on my scourge, too. I think its all of the projectile hate mirage has in conjunction with their normal evades.)

    As for the poll, this is my view.

    Mesmer
    Ranger
    Thief
    Warrior
    Engineer
    Revenant
    Guardian
    Necro
    Elementalist

    That's how I voted. Ranger and thief are interchangeable, as are warrior and engineer. I actually have difficulty with warriors and engineers on both my ranger and thief.
    I honestly find roaming necros to be more of a threat than elementalists.

    ~ Kovu

    But if you're a ranger then Necros will just be bags to you XD

    And as we pass the 100 votes mark, here are the results for most OP 1 vs 1 combat strength class beginning 2019!

    2.5 Mesmer
    2.9 Ranger
    3.5 Engineer
    4.2 Thief
    5.3 Revenant
    5.3 Warrior
    6.1 Elementalist
    7.2 Guardian
    8.0 Necro

    Thank you all for the participation!

    A Hermit's Tale - To The Edge of the Mists [Link Here]

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