Discussion on Policy: Third-Party Programs

So, if i use voice chat and someone tells me when to do x thing does that go against

"Does this program allow someone to play faster, better, longer, or more accurately than someone who doesn't use the program?"

I get not allowing something that plays for me or gives me rewards for something i havent done, but not allowing me to use tools to improve myself or others in my group and make informative decisions based on facts, rather than kicking ppl based on assumptions or playing based on vague knowledge that might or might not be true? Why?

DPS meters give knowledge and information is the most valuable resource of war. They can be used to help people or to pick out the enemy DPS carry.

I'd personally like to get one but your last statement about reserving the right to take action on an account over any 3rd party software worries me, I read that as "we let some people have it but not others", very grey and doesn't clarify anything.

So no damage meters or voice chat? I'm kidding, I just think that not endorsing things certain things like voice chat, but allowing duo queues in ranked at all (I mean really, they're almost always on voice) is a bit inconsistent. I mean the real advantage is being able to chat while playing. That amazingly increases response time to opposition play.

Inb4 recording software hooking becomes false-flagged.

Note: ArenaNet does not review, approve, or endorse any third-party program. Each use of such a program is made by an account holder at their own risk.

I'm assuming this is Anet's policy moving forward? Because they have reviewed, approved, and endorsed TacO (a 3rd-party program) in the past... they even showcased it with a Tweet.

Does this mean Arc DPS is no longer endorsed/approved?

Source: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/1570/psa-build-templates-by-arcdps-green-lighted-by-arenanet

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

In general, our policy is as follows:

We do not permit the use of any program that gives one player an unintended, unnatural, or unfair advantage over another player. This includes programs that alter game balance in favor of one player over another, automate actions within the game, promote unattended gameplay, or have an adverse effect on other players.

The best way for you to assess whether a specific third-party program could have any impact on another player is to ask:

• "Does this program allow someone to play faster, better, longer, or more accurately than someone who doesn't use the program?"
• "Does this program allow someone to 'play' when he/she is not at the computer?"
• "Does this program allow the user to gain unnatural or undeserved rewards?"

If the answer to any of these questions is "yes" or even "maybe," then we strongly recommend that you do not use the program. Doing so not only raises the risk that your Guild Wars or Guild Wars 2 account may be accessed by a malicious third party, but it can lead to the suspension or termination of your account for violating the Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct.

Does this mean that Yolo Mouse is cheating now? It definately allows more "accurate" gameplay that someone that doesnt have it... I lose my mouse pointer all the time in the visual clutter. I still havent installed it yet because of policies like this but would really like it as a quality of life thing.

Could we please have Anet give us a go-ahead on specific (ie, current) versions of 3rd party software as ok or not? I'd really appreciate it.

I don't think those programs were approved, but were tolerated; as in accounts would not be actioned if using the reviewed version of the program (think ArcDPS).I also don't think any statement points to 'chat' programs; seems like that is kind of stretching the policies.

These statements are no different than they were years ago, so one can let past performance be one's guide as to which programs do not illicit account actions.

Regardless, if a players feels in doubt about a third-party program, said player would probably feel safer not using the program rather than sorry should something untoward happen.

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:"Does this program allow someone to 'play' when he/she is not at the computer?"I hope it is still okay for music playing with the in-game instruments? :s

@zealex.9410 said:Or even Taco.

Yeah, about that: many players use it to gain advantage in races, puzzles etc., because it shows them the exact route via on-screen indicators. To me, that falls into the category of:

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:The best way for you to assess whether a specific third-party program could have any impact on another player is to ask:

• "Does this program allow someone to play faster, better, longer, or more accurately than someone who doesn't use the program?"

Ban any dps meter, that would be a step in the right direction for the health of the game and community.

@"SteepledHat.1345" said:So no damage meters or voice chat? I'm kidding, I just think that not endorsing things certain things like voice chat, but allowing duo queues in ranked at all (I mean really, they're almost always on voice) is a bit inconsistent. I mean the real advantage is being able to chat while playing. That amazingly increases response time to opposition play.

Voice chat is fine. DPS meters, that follow specific guidelines, are also fine. Same with overlays. None of those offer anything that isn't already available; at worst, they make some things easier (notably DPS meters save people from doing the math themselves).

The point of "gain an advantage" is to make it clear that we aren't allowed to use things that change the game for us. Using food is a "gameplay advantage." Using the build recommended on SC's site is a "gameplay advantage." Everyone knows those are fine. I'm not sure why people think that suddenly ANet is implying that it's not okay to speak to other players in an MMO.

At the same time, ANet can't endorse specific products. So "voice" is okay, but you use Discord at your own risk. Using Dulfy or "an" overlay that has Dulfy's maps are both fine, too. But ANet can't promise you that Dulfy's site isn't going to make a bad recommendation or that "TACO" might not screw up your game files.

ANet can't be 100% specific about any of this because there are a gazillion players out there who are waiting to "internet lawyer" interpret any possible loopholes.

tl;dr use tools that don't alter, change, or bypass protections/rules of the game and don't expect ANet to tell us that any particular one has been strictly vetted by them to be safe.

@"Fay.2735" said:Does this mean Arc DPS is no longer endorsed/approved?

Source: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/1570/psa-build-templates-by-arcdps-green-lighted-by-arenanet

I want to know this too because they state they will take action on people using any 3rd party software, use at own risk.

yeah would be nice to know about the status of TacO and ArcDPS, could some dev please clarify this ?

The description is made vague and inclusive so that Anet keeps the right to act at any moment if they judge they have to and to not have the responsibility if a 3rd party program is broken or ends up doing sth problematic. That does not mean that ArcDPS and TACO are not still greenlit unless they state otherwise. That is how every company treats 3rd party programs. Tolerated but if sth goes wrong do not reach out to the company for help.

btw how are we able to reply to these?

@Capodicapis.6819 said:Ban any dps meter, that would be a step in the right direction for the health of the game and community.

People will be toxic with or without a dps meter, banning a helpful tool will not make those players any less toxic. I can guarantee that if a pug group is trying to do no updraft gorseval and fails to phase/kill the boss on time, the leader will start kicking people who they THINK is the problem instead of who actually is the problem. The tool is not the problem, the community is. That's like blaming a gun for killing someone even though it has no power unless someone pulls the trigger.

@Capodicapis.6819 said:Ban any dps meter, that would be a step in the right direction for the health of the game and community.

Ban everyone in raid without dpsmeter is the better way in my opinion.

Let us play as we want- and we let you play as you want. I would leave Gw2 w/o dps meter. Raid/Fractals w/o dps meter sucks.

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Or even Taco.

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:The best way for you to assess whether a specific third-party program could have any impact on another player is to ask:

• "
  Does this program allow someone to play faster, better,
  longer, or
  more accurately than someone who doesn't use the program?
  "

I doubt they are going to take action against people using a program that strictly uses the API provided by ANet.

Also keep in mind that Gaile literally stated that none of the policies have changed. It's just worded differently to reduce the ambiguity of some things.

@Blocki.4931 said:Also keep in mind that Gaile literally stated that none of the policies have changed. It's just worded differently to reduce the ambiguity of some things.

They just noted that Customer Support cannot offer support if a third-party modification breaks

So to avoid strain on my fingers I often use a steam controller.

One action that has annoyed me is the need to action cancel to get the highest dps on some classes in a high end pve setting (raiding and fractals), making spamming the autoattack key marginally better as you will cancel the aftercast for some abilities and go straight back to attacking.

Autoattack on my controller is bound to the trigger and pressing this repeatedly would cause the same issues as with kb/m. Would it be allowed to use a 'hold to repeat' function on this button press to repeatedly give discreet identical inputs while holding the button, or would this be against ToS.

I don't currently do this and haven't tested it before in any setting other than the training golem, just wondering if I can get an opinion on this.

This statement also clears up my usage of a macro for '/gg' that i use on controller, which is helpful to know.

@"Turin.6921" said:The description is made vague and inclusive so that Anet keeps the right to act at any moment if they judge they have to and to not have the responsibility if a 3rd party program is broken or ends up doing sth problematic. That does not mean that ArcDPS and TACO are not still greenlit unless they state otherwise.Quite the opposite, they've just stated that no progam is "greenlit". Unless they restate their previous assurances again, things like Arc, Taco and music macros just moved into a gray area.

now dpsmeter help players wihtout fractal godness buff show what thay can press properly buttons and decrease kp requirement for himself. I othen see words: "kick me if I low, give me chance show".

ok so make imagination that arcdps absent at all.

so on raid comm will be req to get some time wiht dps inside training area and looks how will be fast kill golem, and compare with mechanic clock. And looks for that test requement for middl line will be higher, because we lose exprience from top players, when they adjust rotation each day. As support I will no want go in raid "welcome everyone if u have lee" and dont go if raid created slow.So no sup - no raid, they sit in Lion Arch or play another game, population deceased, game die.

For fractals will be something load 100, on 66 people don't rush elite, and look how 1 dps kill the, second elite - second dps do it solo and may be get instant kick if others think what it is low and people now need more higher midll dps. So again kick rate potentially can be increased, because we lose top dps who adjust himself after each patch. And again way kick - Lion Arch - alt+f4.

We real want this?

as for me - best way - arena should make inner dps tool meter and eliminate any "it is legal?"

what about software that improve my computers performance in general ? like gpu drivers and cpu controlling

@WyvrnRipsnarl.5918 said:I hope it is still okay for music playing with the in-game instruments? :s

There's a policy on unattended gameplay that states it's perfectly fine to use macros and the like for musical instruments.