Why do skilled roamers avoid fighting other skilled roamers? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why do skilled roamers avoid fighting other skilled roamers?

EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

The roaming community is small and for veteran roamers, many of the above average roaming players and guilds are pretty much well known across all the servers.
One trend I've been seeing though, while playing and watching live streams on twitch, is that skilled roamers avoid fighting each other a lot.
They run around the map, bump into each other, recognize each other from guild tag, looks etc. and move pass or detour without fighting.
Then when they encounter a pug who might just be a zergling or a less skilled roamer, they jump on them and stomp them into the ground and thump their chest howling in victory.

The vibe I get from skilled roamers who avoid fighting each other is like "Hey I know you're good and you know I'm good. So lets not risk fighting each other."
Its like...why?!
Isn't it more exciting to fight another skilled roamer than to stomp on a pug?

A Hermit's Tale - To The Edge of the Mists [Link Here]

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Comments

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Actually now that I think about it, it reminds me of the same pattern for skilled guilds.
    They bandwagon and crush pug zergs.
    Like...what is so fun about steamrolling others?
    Guilds should also really stop bandwagoning and instead spread out and challenge each other instead.

    A Hermit's Tale - To The Edge of the Mists [Link Here]

  • Artaz.3819Artaz.3819 Member ✭✭✭

    First, you are mistaking "looking for an easier target" for courtesy and respect for one another. You are also probably mistaking pass-on-by with yes, I see that guy "standing by" buddy there that will jump in immediately so time to move on. Or the more likely 2nd scenario is only one of the two actually wants to duel.

    That being said, WvW titles need to be removed from enemy players if you wanted this to stop. You see the same roamers out there time and again all week long.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    Sometimes you want Filet Mignon
    Sometimes you wana McRib

    The skilled guilds got skilled by fighting each other, same for players

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well for one thing that would get pretty boring after a while don't you think? Do you really want to sit around and fight the exact same people every single night forever?

    The only way anyone ever gets good is by fighting people who are better than they are and losing until they start winning. You should thank the people who are beating you without them you could never improve yourself. Unfortunately most humans are short sighted and they don't see how a loss today turns into a win tomorrow so they get mad and say things like "why don't you just go fight each other and leave me alone???"

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Most ppl recognize and ignore are those were i know that they will jump me with more than one player when i attack just one of them, getting blueprints thrown on me for "revenge" hello no

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    You can feel through the screen when someone is taking a fight personally or if you're going to be the target of all their angst for the night. I also get the sense that "roamers" aren't so much roaming as they are looking for quasi duels that they can bail out of, if they were roaming then their builds would be a little more encompassing. WvW isn't open world, everyone is going to run into the same people all night if they're all reading the maps roughly the same way and some people might get tired of that earlier than others.

    Also, sometimes your going to run into that player or group who are just really good and they know you're trying to figure them out and they'll put you on their mental radar and you might not want to bang your head against that wall on that night.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    Actually now that I think about it, it reminds me of the same pattern for skilled guilds.
    They bandwagon and crush pug zergs.
    Like...what is so fun about steamrolling others?
    Guilds should also really stop bandwagoning and instead spread out and challenge each other instead.

    Because in the end, people want to win, regardless of how it's done.

    It's much easier to talk, and doctor screenshots that show you have 12 in squad (but 67 green dots following you-- doesn't count obviously)

    I mean everyone likes to make fun of make fun of tower hugging and choke camping, but you visit a tower and look up and realize, this is the norm.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    After awhile cheese all starts to taste the same :cry:

    BG

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I click my utilities. Fear me!
    (Seriously though, this game has too many kitten buttons to push and keying something like t/g/h just doesn't feel comfortable to me.)

    ~ Kovu

    Fort Aspenwood,
    Ranger, Necromancer.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    I can't speak for those who do this, and I'm not necessarily putting myself in the "skilled" category but, I often avoid people I respect.

    When I enjoy fighting someone who was clearly talented, I may avoid them later when I see them fighting other players. Not because I'm "afraid" of them, but because I respect their skill and understand what roaming is like. I don't want to ruin their 1v1/1vX and will instead wait until the fight is finished or move along. It's a way to show that I understand they're good, or better than me, and that if I'm going to fight them I wish to fight them at their strongest. A little like Goku from Dragon Ball!

    Another reason I may avoid someone is because I know they're the type to be in a group/squad and have friends that will often support them if they're beginning to lose. In this case, I wouldn't say most of these players are skilled but, some of them honestly are. They're just playing to their advantage which really isn't anything to be frowned upon. If I had a guild I'd probably do it too.

    I don't know the reasons the streamers you speak of may avoid other skilled players, you could be right you could be wrong. The issue a lot of people have is projecting and assuming and applying their standards to others like it's common knowledge. We're all guilty of doing this sometimes. For example, maybe someone /waves at you a few times and it's perceived as trolling because you lost a fight against them earlier. Or like a lot of people say, "they just want to win to boost their ego." Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's perspective. Unless you're speaking to them directly or watching them on a stream, you can only make so many conclusions from their character's body language.

    You make good points though slightly not applicable to some of the streamers I've seen.

    The weirdest one I've seen was a streamer who complained after roaming for a couple of hours during reset that he only had 1 good fight the entire time.

    But in that time, I've seen him run past two other skilled enemy roamers on separate occasions without engaging when they were both alone.

    Then he jumps on pugs he encounter and 1 shots them before complaining that the quality of roamers have dropped.

    Like what!?

    A Hermit's Tale - To The Edge of the Mists [Link Here]

  • runeblade.7514runeblade.7514 Member ✭✭✭

    I am not skilled, but I am a roamer.

    There is no point in fighting roamers. Killing one roamer that takes forever to kill is a equivalent of killing one zergling that dies in one milisecond. And then, when you finally defeat the roamer, you lose all your participation.

    6x warrior/5xRanger/6x Revenant/6x Mesmer/5x Guardian/6x Thief/5x Engineer/5x Necromancer/5x Elementalist

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    I can't speak for those who do this, and I'm not necessarily putting myself in the "skilled" category but, I often avoid people I respect.

    When I enjoy fighting someone who was clearly talented, I may avoid them later when I see them fighting other players. Not because I'm "afraid" of them, but because I respect their skill and understand what roaming is like. I don't want to ruin their 1v1/1vX and will instead wait until the fight is finished or move along. It's a way to show that I understand they're good, or better than me, and that if I'm going to fight them I wish to fight them at their strongest. A little like Goku from Dragon Ball!

    Another reason I may avoid someone is because I know they're the type to be in a group/squad and have friends that will often support them if they're beginning to lose. In this case, I wouldn't say most of these players are skilled but, some of them honestly are. They're just playing to their advantage which really isn't anything to be frowned upon. If I had a guild I'd probably do it too.

    I don't know the reasons the streamers you speak of may avoid other skilled players, you could be right you could be wrong. The issue a lot of people have is projecting and assuming and applying their standards to others like it's common knowledge. We're all guilty of doing this sometimes. For example, maybe someone /waves at you a few times and it's perceived as trolling because you lost a fight against them earlier. Or like a lot of people say, "they just want to win to boost their ego." Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's perspective. Unless you're speaking to them directly or watching them on a stream, you can only make so many conclusions from their character's body language.

    Oh and there was also this veteran thief streamer who goes around stomping pugs and jumps on a pug-looking weaver thinking he was a free kill.

    But turns out the weaver was very skilled and almost counter killed the thief streamer. The thief streamer proceeded to disengage and ran before saying things like 'oh I can't kill that weaver but he also can't kill me'.

    Like what!? Shouldn't you go back in and try to win? :s

    A Hermit's Tale - To The Edge of the Mists [Link Here]

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shining One.1635 said:
    I'd imagine at least some of them don't want to risk getting an embarrassing loss in a live stream.

    I was thinking though, from the viewers' point of view, do they actually enjoy watching a skilled roamer stream content of him stomping pugs XD
    Personally I would have rather seen the streamer take on tough opponents, even if it ends up as a loss.
    Its like wouldn't we have more respect for such a streamer/roamer?

    A Hermit's Tale - To The Edge of the Mists [Link Here]

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    First, you are mistaking "looking for an easier target" for courtesy and respect for one another. You are also probably mistaking pass-on-by with yes, I see that guy "standing by" buddy there that will jump in immediately so time to move on. Or the more likely 2nd scenario is only one of the two actually wants to duel.

    That being said, WvW titles need to be removed from enemy players if you wanted this to stop. You see the same roamers out there time and again all week long.

    But if we have all these courtesy and respect between skilled roamers, given such a small community, soon there will be even fewer satisfying encounters to be had.
    For myself when I roam, I can run around for a long while without meeting anyone decent.
    When I do meet someone I know is decent, I get hyper-excited and rush to fight him (only to find myself getting stomped later).
    Its like roamers complain there aren't many good fights to be had but they worsen the problems themselves by avoiding fights with other familiar skilled roamers :/

    A Hermit's Tale - To The Edge of the Mists [Link Here]

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    I can't speak for those who do this, and I'm not necessarily putting myself in the "skilled" category but, I often avoid people I respect.

    When I enjoy fighting someone who was clearly talented, I may avoid them later when I see them fighting other players. Not because I'm "afraid" of them, but because I respect their skill and understand what roaming is like. I don't want to ruin their 1v1/1vX and will instead wait until the fight is finished or move along. It's a way to show that I understand they're good, or better than me, and that if I'm going to fight them I wish to fight them at their strongest. A little like Goku from Dragon Ball!

    Another reason I may avoid someone is because I know they're the type to be in a group/squad and have friends that will often support them if they're beginning to lose. In this case, I wouldn't say most of these players are skilled but, some of them honestly are. They're just playing to their advantage which really isn't anything to be frowned upon. If I had a guild I'd probably do it too.

    I don't know the reasons the streamers you speak of may avoid other skilled players, you could be right you could be wrong. The issue a lot of people have is projecting and assuming and applying their standards to others like it's common knowledge. We're all guilty of doing this sometimes. For example, maybe someone /waves at you a few times and it's perceived as trolling because you lost a fight against them earlier. Or like a lot of people say, "they just want to win to boost their ego." Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's perspective. Unless you're speaking to them directly or watching them on a stream, you can only make so many conclusions from their character's body language.

    Well said and basically sums it up for me. Perhaps it's just something from my perspective, but if I have some good fights with somebody and chat with them and exchange some nice words, there's definitely a level of respect I gain for them. I will happily 1v1 them if we both decide to, but it's also nice to see others you respect and just exchange jump spam with them rather than fighting. Perhaps it is a bit of a contradiction because ultimately I am roaming for fights, but I still get enjoyment out of coming across people I know and just taking it easy with them, maybe chatting with them a bit or watching fights from afar with them. It's nice to just chill at times.

    I will say that I sometimes avoid certain 1v1s against super annoying builds that are zero fun to fight. I do like a challenge, but I'm not gonna knowingly 1v1 against a permastealth DE who is gonna run away if they have any chance of losing. Or any gank build that, again, will burst me and kill me or start losing and run away.

    Sometimes it depends on my mood too. I don't consider myself a skilled player, but maybe I am tired of constantly dying and walking back from spawn, and don't want to have to again.

    A lot of people like to assume roamers have ego issues, but it's just as easy for me to say the same thing about people who chase me 1v3+ and blow all their cooldowns just for the kill, or zergs who do the same thing, without actually knowing what they are experiencing behind their screen. It is easy to assume things about others when they are programmed to be your enemy and communication is restricted unless you put in the effort. I see it all the time with people talking kitten and making all sorts of assumptions about commanders, skilled roaming/havoc guilds, or even generalizing entire servers and conveniently concocting up their own ego-driven idea of what they are thinking, feeling, or doing. I'm not saying I'm perfect either, but assumptions are easy to make, especially when they feed the ego.

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  • HazyDaisy.4107HazyDaisy.4107 Member ✭✭✭

    Most fresh out of the box newbies make better roamers than "seasoned vets". A fresh out of the box will atleast hit a few players in his/her solo travels before learning the lesson you can't just go around hitting everyone and expect to live. Whereas a seasoned vet will either run past the fair 1v1 because...they don't feel like fighting, or bait you into his/her waiting Conga line because...you need practice to get better...

    [HaHa] Hazardous Hallucination - Sorrows Furnace

  • @Shadow Order.7258 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    Actually now that I think about it, it reminds me of the same pattern for skilled guilds.
    They bandwagon and crush pug zergs.
    Like...what is so fun about steamrolling others?
    Guilds should also really stop bandwagoning and instead spread out and challenge each other instead.

    You mean like how the gvg scence all migrated to the same server and then began thumping their chest as the "fight" server. People want easy wins and this game caters to them.

    When did this happen?

    Xterra/Marqeese[Ark]

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭

    In most cases its that „Veteran roamers” know each other, already met few times in duel zone and made fights hundreds of time outside it, already know that one of them is better or have build advantage and just wont start that boring fight again (because they already know the result). Of course sometimes they will, if theres literally no1 else to fight, or they think they got better fron last time.

    Usually you want to encounter some1 new to check yourself and this fresh meat. In current state of WvW some links are more than stable (for example in EU Wsr, Deso/old bandwagon AG and Gandara some time ago), where most roamers know each other more than they wanted to, because of weeks or even months without any enemy changes.

    Idk about streamers and they pride, but speaking of youtubers its always funny to see them ridiculously dying 1v1 and then seeing another „Great roaming montage”

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons

  • Chorazin.4107Chorazin.4107 Member ✭✭✭

    It can also be they have already fought. I roamed a lot on my Scrapper when I played which is sub optimal. But i cant be assed re gearing, ran into a well played condi mirage a couple times. Its a non contest fight, I dont have the condi clear to have a decent chance in that matchup.

    Once you fight a couple of times it's like meh not bothering to fight the condi mirage again.

    [lion] - [tRex] - [mum]

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019

    for me avoiding fights can have several reasons:
    a) i dont fight some people of wich i know that they dont enjoy fighting me and that were able to tell me that without resorting to insults. afterall my aim is not to ruin another players day, but do have fun myself. that can go hand in hand, but doesnt have to.
    b) some people after you have killed them (maybe by suprise) and they tried to 'show' you that they are better than in the first fight, they stop trying new tactics after 2-3 tries and you kind of feel their rage rising and them fighting more and more irrational. then i tend to go out of their way to let them cool down a bit.
    c) sometimes i am in a PPT mood and do want some objective and fighting other people is not always the fastest way to claim something as they (especially the ones that are more skilled or think themselves as such) will return if you kill them, wich might keep you from capturing what you want.
    d) i usually dont attack the one i am chatting to. like if i have 5 opponents nearby and chat with one about whatever, then i will mostly attack other players (may depend on the chat tho)

    but then again i am not sure i am 'skilled' by your definition. i mean i win most of my encounters yet i also do 'cheese 'em' as they call it, i simply like to use every tool the game offers and prefer fighting opponents that do the same.
    usually inexperienced opponents are more fun to fight as they still try different approaches and dont give up after their first try to adapt.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @X T D.6458 said:
    After awhile cheese all starts to taste the same :cry:

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Eh...skilled or not 99% of the time I will fight anyone I come across despite how skilled they are. Live stream or not. I have a saying in GW2

    "If you wanna get good, fight those better"

    Im 99% allows down to sharpen my skill by fighting. Heck, I even jump in outnumbered fights just to see how long I can last and see if I can down someone.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/mc_celestia
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
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  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    The roaming community is small and for veteran roamers, many of the above average roaming players and guilds are pretty much well known across all the servers.
    One trend I've been seeing though, while playing and watching live streams on twitch, is that skilled roamers avoid fighting each other a lot.

    Cause noone wants to get #EXPOSED

    Also cause you normally fought these people before and don't really wanna fight the same person over and over, also cause fights between good players is mainly decided by builds.

    They run around the map, bump into each other, recognize each other from guild tag, looks etc. and move pass or detour without fighting.
    Then when they encounter a pug who might just be a zergling or a less skilled roamer, they jump on them and stomp them into the ground and thump their chest howling in victory.

    Cause it's low effort and you haven't found any fights in forever

    The vibe I get from skilled roamers who avoid fighting each other is like "Hey I know you're good and you know I'm good. So lets not risk fighting each other."
    Its like...why?!
    Isn't it more exciting to fight another skilled roamer than to stomp on a pug?

    Depends on if you fought the person before and/or know the result already cause of the MU, the difference is skill between most good players isn't big enough to compensate for bad MUs.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • Zephyra.4709Zephyra.4709 Member ✭✭✭

    Chorazin.4107 Makes a fair point.

    Especially true if you're running gimmick/non-meta builds (because heaven forbid we make our own builds for fun/creativity, niche roles). Let's not let the 'lures' slide either, that 1v1 is short lived... more often than not his 2 other guildies magically appear at his aid so yeah, not worth going for that target again if you already know what bs they're gonna pull 10 seconds later.

  • @Chorazin.4107 said:
    It can also be they have already fought. I roamed a lot on my Scrapper when I played which is sub optimal. But i cant be assed re gearing, ran into a well played condi mirage a couple times. Its a non contest fight, I dont have the condi clear to have a decent chance in that matchup.

    Once you fight a couple of times it's like meh not bothering to fight the condi mirage again.

    Yea, I guess given how the game is some builds are not even worth fighting.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    also cause fights between good players is mainly decided by builds.

    This pretty much right here is why the mode has turned into a meme joke (like the ANet attempt at eSports). The builds matter more than the skill levels. Cause Power Creep sells expansions.

    Until WvW also uses the Pvp build system (or a variant) there will never be any attempt at balance.

    I build to roam which means taking objectives and maybe killing players when I can. But I need to be confident of the kill, cause if I lose I have to run back to get the objectives again.

    You're confusing roamer builds with dueling builds, which are different things.

    Leader of PvE/WvW Havoc Guild - Tyrian Adventure Corporation [TACO] - Kaineng since the start, and till KN is no more.

    Do not fear simplification of the game, there is elegance in simplicity that allows more time for playing and less time building.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:
    @lodjur.1284 said:

    also cause fights between good players is mainly decided by builds.

    This pretty much right here is why the mode has turned into a meme joke (like the ANet attempt at eSports). The builds matter more than the skill levels. Cause Power Creep sells expansions.

    Until WvW also uses the Pvp build system (or a variant) there will never be any attempt at balance.

    pvp build system (or a variant) wont change it.
    fights in spvp are more balanced as the situation you will be in is much more predictable and the fights are strongly affected by the envoiremental rules. you play for points in spvp not for winning a specific fight. you can win an encounter without killing your opponent, even without surviving the opponent. because what matters is the points gained from the encounter and not wether you killed the opponent or he killed you.
    in WvW roaming, many dont care primarily for scoring and even if they did you would have much more time and space for a fight as your opponent will need longer to return. this does basically 2 things:
    1) range + mobility/stealth is much stronger in WvW as you can abuse it to its fullest.
    2) hit and run becomes a viable and with that the strongest tactic as it is always relatively low risk + high reward.
    just having time and space for the fight makes it impossible to balance for WvW roaming in a way that these fights would no longer be primarily dominated by build. because there is simply no drawback for abusing it and having better kiting tools means you basically cannot lose without making a mistake, having inferior kiting tools on the other side means you can lose even if you do play perfectly. that is why thief always has been a top roamer in WvW, but mostly is terrible in spvp to 1 vs 1 people.

    You're confusing roamer builds with dueling builds, which are different things.

    correct in a duel you usually have limited space and your opponent wont fight you another round if you too much rely on hit and run as that is simply too boring for them. you can just try sitting with a deadeye on a duel spot and see how many people want a duel against you.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:
    @lodjur.1284 said:

    also cause fights between good players is mainly decided by builds.

    This pretty much right here is why the mode has turned into a meme joke (like the ANet attempt at eSports). The builds matter more than the skill levels. Cause Power Creep sells expansions.

    Until WvW also uses the Pvp build system (or a variant) there will never be any attempt at balance.

    Amulet system would make WvW more like sPvP which is worse in every way. More burst, less tankiness, not being able to focus your build (except as a burst build ofc)

    I build to roam which means taking objectives and maybe killing players when I can. But I need to be confident of the kill, cause if I lose I have to run back to get the objectives again.

    Roaming's purpose is to kill players, taking objectives is a way to lure people out, if objectives are your primary goal you're doing something else (not meant as a bad thing just not the same thing).

    You're confusing roamer builds with dueling builds, which are different things.

    Not that different really, most duel spots seem to allow max cheese reseting which is the roaming meta.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    I build to roam which means taking objectives and maybe killing players when I can. But I need to be confident of the kill, cause if I lose I have to run back to get the objectives again.

    Roaming's purpose is to kill players, taking objectives is a way to lure people out, if objectives are your primary goal you're doing something else (not meant as a bad thing just not the same thing).

    in that case i am very often not roaming, but doing something else. you will hardly be able to tell the difference tho, as the difference is just my intention.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For me it's a respect thing. If I know someone is skilled (from many past encounters, whether I won or lost), regardless of class/build/guild-tag, I'll let them be.

    Also, from my experience, other skilled roamers I see tend not to do this thing unless.... the person they're avoiding is a friend/guildie/former server-mate they know well, or it's someone they just recently dueled.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    I build to roam which means taking objectives and maybe killing players when I can. But I need to be confident of the kill, cause if I lose I have to run back to get the objectives again.

    Roaming's purpose is to kill players, taking objectives is a way to lure people out, if objectives are your primary goal you're doing something else (not meant as a bad thing just not the same thing).

    in that case i am very often not roaming, but doing something else. you will hardly be able to tell the difference tho, as the difference is just my intention.

    Then I guess you aren't, but the term generally doesn't refer to people who primarily cap small objectives (as their goal,while the goal for a roamer would be to find fights).

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    I build to roam which means taking objectives and maybe killing players when I can. But I need to be confident of the kill, cause if I lose I have to run back to get the objectives again.

    Roaming's purpose is to kill players, taking objectives is a way to lure people out, if objectives are your primary goal you're doing something else (not meant as a bad thing just not the same thing).

    in that case i am very often not roaming, but doing something else. you will hardly be able to tell the difference tho, as the difference is just my intention.

    Then I guess you aren't, but the term generally doesn't refer to people who primarily cap small objectives (as their goal,while the goal for a roamer would be to find fights).

    no, just taking objectives is not the goal. taking the objective from someone is the goal. so i like to take objectives that my opponent wants to protect. that doesnt have to inculde an actually fight tho. and i usually go for towers/keeps. camps are just for supplies and sentries to help me track opponents, i dont see how taking them would be anything worth a primary goal - its just too easy, like killing other players. (basically what a havoc group would do, just solo)

    read this, become a better player now.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    I build to roam which means taking objectives and maybe killing players when I can. But I need to be confident of the kill, cause if I lose I have to run back to get the objectives again.

    Roaming's purpose is to kill players, taking objectives is a way to lure people out, if objectives are your primary goal you're doing something else (not meant as a bad thing just not the same thing).

    in that case i am very often not roaming, but doing something else. you will hardly be able to tell the difference tho, as the difference is just my intention.

    Then I guess you aren't, but the term generally doesn't refer to people who primarily cap small objectives (as their goal,while the goal for a roamer would be to find fights).

    no, just taking objectives is not the goal. taking the objective from someone is the goal. so i like to take objectives that my opponent wants to protect. that doesnt have to inculde an actually fight tho. and i usually go for towers/keeps. camps are just for supplies and sentries to help me track opponents, i dont see how taking them would be anything worth a primary goal - its just too easy, like killing other players.

    Well if you're talking keeps that's def not roaming. Playing objectives is the opposite of roaming. Especially if taking them doesn't lead to a fight.

    Killing other players here generally means finding satisfying fights, that can be a 1v3 vs bads or an 1v1 with a good player or w/e else kinda PvP one finds fun, even if it's something not challenging like instabursting semi-afk people from stealth.

    How is easy or not isn't really relevant to what it is, roaming is just a name for when you're very few people (max 2 maybe 3) and your goal is to find fights and you couldn't care less for the objectives/scoreboard.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    I build to roam which means taking objectives and maybe killing players when I can. But I need to be confident of the kill, cause if I lose I have to run back to get the objectives again.

    Roaming's purpose is to kill players, taking objectives is a way to lure people out, if objectives are your primary goal you're doing something else (not meant as a bad thing just not the same thing).

    in that case i am very often not roaming, but doing something else. you will hardly be able to tell the difference tho, as the difference is just my intention.

    Then I guess you aren't, but the term generally doesn't refer to people who primarily cap small objectives (as their goal,while the goal for a roamer would be to find fights).

    no, just taking objectives is not the goal. taking the objective from someone is the goal. so i like to take objectives that my opponent wants to protect. that doesnt have to inculde an actually fight tho. and i usually go for towers/keeps. camps are just for supplies and sentries to help me track opponents, i dont see how taking them would be anything worth a primary goal - its just too easy, like killing other players.

    Well if you're talking keeps that's def not roaming. Playing objectives is the opposite of roaming. Especially if taking them doesn't lead to a fight.

    Killing other players here generally means finding satisfying fights, that can be a 1v3 vs bads or an 1v1 with a good player or w/e else kinda PvP one finds fun, even if it's something not challenging like instabursting semi-afk people from stealth.

    How is easy or not isn't really relevant to what it is, roaming is just a name for when you're very few people (max 2 maybe 3) and your goal is to find fights and you couldn't care less for the objectives/scoreboard.

    thats what roaming is to you. but that i guess is a big issue on this forum, there is no definition of what roaming is, that everyone does agree on. that makes it very hard to discuss anything roaming related.
    but yeah if we are talking people who only are interested in 'good' fights, then avoiding any opponent doesnt make sense

    read this, become a better player now.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    I build to roam which means taking objectives and maybe killing players when I can. But I need to be confident of the kill, cause if I lose I have to run back to get the objectives again.

    Roaming's purpose is to kill players, taking objectives is a way to lure people out, if objectives are your primary goal you're doing something else (not meant as a bad thing just not the same thing).

    in that case i am very often not roaming, but doing something else. you will hardly be able to tell the difference tho, as the difference is just my intention.

    Then I guess you aren't, but the term generally doesn't refer to people who primarily cap small objectives (as their goal,while the goal for a roamer would be to find fights).

    no, just taking objectives is not the goal. taking the objective from someone is the goal. so i like to take objectives that my opponent wants to protect. that doesnt have to inculde an actually fight tho. and i usually go for towers/keeps. camps are just for supplies and sentries to help me track opponents, i dont see how taking them would be anything worth a primary goal - its just too easy, like killing other players.

    Well if you're talking keeps that's def not roaming. Playing objectives is the opposite of roaming. Especially if taking them doesn't lead to a fight.

    Killing other players here generally means finding satisfying fights, that can be a 1v3 vs bads or an 1v1 with a good player or w/e else kinda PvP one finds fun, even if it's something not challenging like instabursting semi-afk people from stealth.

    How is easy or not isn't really relevant to what it is, roaming is just a name for when you're very few people (max 2 maybe 3) and your goal is to find fights and you couldn't care less for the objectives/scoreboard.

    thats what roaming is to you. but that i guess is a big issue on this forum, there is no definition of what roaming is, that everyone does agree on. that makes it very hard to discuss anything roaming related.

    Well very few people refer to objective players really when talking roamers. Most discussions I see are related to the size of the group.

    but yeah if we are talking people who only are interested in 'good' fights, then avoiding any opponent doesnt make sense

    Well if you know it won't lead to a good fight and will take a long time, then avoiding it makes perfect sense.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    I build to roam which means taking objectives and maybe killing players when I can. But I need to be confident of the kill, cause if I lose I have to run back to get the objectives again.

    Roaming's purpose is to kill players, taking objectives is a way to lure people out, if objectives are your primary goal you're doing something else (not meant as a bad thing just not the same thing).

    in that case i am very often not roaming, but doing something else. you will hardly be able to tell the difference tho, as the difference is just my intention.

    Then I guess you aren't, but the term generally doesn't refer to people who primarily cap small objectives (as their goal,while the goal for a roamer would be to find fights).

    no, just taking objectives is not the goal. taking the objective from someone is the goal. so i like to take objectives that my opponent wants to protect. that doesnt have to inculde an actually fight tho. and i usually go for towers/keeps. camps are just for supplies and sentries to help me track opponents, i dont see how taking them would be anything worth a primary goal - its just too easy, like killing other players.

    Well if you're talking keeps that's def not roaming. Playing objectives is the opposite of roaming. Especially if taking them doesn't lead to a fight.

    Killing other players here generally means finding satisfying fights, that can be a 1v3 vs bads or an 1v1 with a good player or w/e else kinda PvP one finds fun, even if it's something not challenging like instabursting semi-afk people from stealth.

    How is easy or not isn't really relevant to what it is, roaming is just a name for when you're very few people (max 2 maybe 3) and your goal is to find fights and you couldn't care less for the objectives/scoreboard.

    thats what roaming is to you. but that i guess is a big issue on this forum, there is no definition of what roaming is, that everyone does agree on. that makes it very hard to discuss anything roaming related.

    Well very few people refer to objective players really when talking roamers. Most discussions I see are related to the size of the group.

    if its just groupsize, then i am a roamer tho. even when playing for objectives.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Perhaps they aren't as skilled as they think they are. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've been jumped by a roamer while carrying a dragon banner, and I still kill them 1v1. I mean how exactly do you lose to someone carrying a dragon banner that you get the jump on???

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    I build to roam which means taking objectives and maybe killing players when I can. But I need to be confident of the kill, cause if I lose I have to run back to get the objectives again.

    Roaming's purpose is to kill players, taking objectives is a way to lure people out, if objectives are your primary goal you're doing something else (not meant as a bad thing just not the same thing).

    in that case i am very often not roaming, but doing something else. you will hardly be able to tell the difference tho, as the difference is just my intention.

    Then I guess you aren't, but the term generally doesn't refer to people who primarily cap small objectives (as their goal,while the goal for a roamer would be to find fights).

    no, just taking objectives is not the goal. taking the objective from someone is the goal. so i like to take objectives that my opponent wants to protect. that doesnt have to inculde an actually fight tho. and i usually go for towers/keeps. camps are just for supplies and sentries to help me track opponents, i dont see how taking them would be anything worth a primary goal - its just too easy, like killing other players.

    Well if you're talking keeps that's def not roaming. Playing objectives is the opposite of roaming. Especially if taking them doesn't lead to a fight.

    Killing other players here generally means finding satisfying fights, that can be a 1v3 vs bads or an 1v1 with a good player or w/e else kinda PvP one finds fun, even if it's something not challenging like instabursting semi-afk people from stealth.

    How is easy or not isn't really relevant to what it is, roaming is just a name for when you're very few people (max 2 maybe 3) and your goal is to find fights and you couldn't care less for the objectives/scoreboard.

    thats what roaming is to you. but that i guess is a big issue on this forum, there is no definition of what roaming is, that everyone does agree on. that makes it very hard to discuss anything roaming related.

    Well very few people refer to objective players really when talking roamers. Most discussions I see are related to the size of the group.

    if its just groupsize, then i am a roamer tho. even when playing for objectives.

    I am not saying it's groupsize primarily. I am saying what people disagree on when it comes to roaming is generally groupsize.

    However the vast majority of discussions I see come with the viewpoint that roaming is the opposite of playing for objectives.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2019

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    I build to roam which means taking objectives and maybe killing players when I can. But I need to be confident of the kill, cause if I lose I have to run back to get the objectives again.

    Roaming's purpose is to kill players, taking objectives is a way to lure people out, if objectives are your primary goal you're doing something else (not meant as a bad thing just not the same thing).

    in that case i am very often not roaming, but doing something else. you will hardly be able to tell the difference tho, as the difference is just my intention.

    Then I guess you aren't, but the term generally doesn't refer to people who primarily cap small objectives (as their goal,while the goal for a roamer would be to find fights).

    no, just taking objectives is not the goal. taking the objective from someone is the goal. so i like to take objectives that my opponent wants to protect. that doesnt have to inculde an actually fight tho. and i usually go for towers/keeps. camps are just for supplies and sentries to help me track opponents, i dont see how taking them would be anything worth a primary goal - its just too easy, like killing other players.

    Well if you're talking keeps that's def not roaming. Playing objectives is the opposite of roaming. Especially if taking them doesn't lead to a fight.

    Killing other players here generally means finding satisfying fights, that can be a 1v3 vs bads or an 1v1 with a good player or w/e else kinda PvP one finds fun, even if it's something not challenging like instabursting semi-afk people from stealth.

    How is easy or not isn't really relevant to what it is, roaming is just a name for when you're very few people (max 2 maybe 3) and your goal is to find fights and you couldn't care less for the objectives/scoreboard.

    thats what roaming is to you. but that i guess is a big issue on this forum, there is no definition of what roaming is, that everyone does agree on. that makes it very hard to discuss anything roaming related.

    Well very few people refer to objective players really when talking roamers. Most discussions I see are related to the size of the group.

    if its just groupsize, then i am a roamer tho. even when playing for objectives.

    I am not saying it's groupsize primarily. I am saying what people disagree on when it comes to roaming is generally groupsize.

    However the vast majority of discussions I see come with the viewpoint that roaming is the opposite of playing for objectives.

    i dont think opposite is the correct term for it, but i guess i understand your view.
    that explains why people are so upset with 'roaming balance', if you play by your own rules within a set mode you cant really expect it to be balanced around your rules.
    as said above the fight as such is nearly impossible to balance as it will mostly be decided by kiting ability/range advantage. now one can be upset about that, if that is the only thing you care for. but once you play for objectives, once you play for score regardless of groupsize, then the professions are much more balanced and mostly the population inbalance will be your issue. and you can 'win' in your goals despite losing a fight.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    I build to roam which means taking objectives and maybe killing players when I can. But I need to be confident of the kill, cause if I lose I have to run back to get the objectives again.

    Roaming's purpose is to kill players, taking objectives is a way to lure people out, if objectives are your primary goal you're doing something else (not meant as a bad thing just not the same thing).

    in that case i am very often not roaming, but doing something else. you will hardly be able to tell the difference tho, as the difference is just my intention.

    Then I guess you aren't, but the term generally doesn't refer to people who primarily cap small objectives (as their goal,while the goal for a roamer would be to find fights).

    no, just taking objectives is not the goal. taking the objective from someone is the goal. so i like to take objectives that my opponent wants to protect. that doesnt have to inculde an actually fight tho. and i usually go for towers/keeps. camps are just for supplies and sentries to help me track opponents, i dont see how taking them would be anything worth a primary goal - its just too easy, like killing other players.

    Well if you're talking keeps that's def not roaming. Playing objectives is the opposite of roaming. Especially if taking them doesn't lead to a fight.

    Killing other players here generally means finding satisfying fights, that can be a 1v3 vs bads or an 1v1 with a good player or w/e else kinda PvP one finds fun, even if it's something not challenging like instabursting semi-afk people from stealth.

    How is easy or not isn't really relevant to what it is, roaming is just a name for when you're very few people (max 2 maybe 3) and your goal is to find fights and you couldn't care less for the objectives/scoreboard.

    thats what roaming is to you. but that i guess is a big issue on this forum, there is no definition of what roaming is, that everyone does agree on. that makes it very hard to discuss anything roaming related.

    Well very few people refer to objective players really when talking roamers. Most discussions I see are related to the size of the group.

    if its just groupsize, then i am a roamer tho. even when playing for objectives.

    I am not saying it's groupsize primarily. I am saying what people disagree on when it comes to roaming is generally groupsize.

    However the vast majority of discussions I see come with the viewpoint that roaming is the opposite of playing for objectives.

    i dont think opposite is the correct term for it, but i guess i understand your view.
    that explains why people are so upset with 'roaming balance', if you play by your own rules within a set mode you cant really expect it to be balanced around your rules.
    as said above the fight as such is nearly impossible to balance as it will mostly be decided by kiting ability/range advantage. now one can be upset about that, if that is the only thing you care for. but once you play for objectives, once you play for score regardless of groupsize, then the professions are much more balanced and mostly the population inbalance will be your issue. and you can 'win' in your goals despite losing a fight.

    Yet quite a few people are just interested in having good fights and think the score is just a number they personally can't affect (to a relevant degree).

    You must realize a lot of roamers don't even stomp but just cleave downs after winning fights because they just genuinely couldn't care less about the scoreboard. I am included in this category.

    The problem is if there's no scoreboard/objectives etc there's noone to fight. But roaming balance doesn't have to be at odds with objective balance, the changes needed to the dominant classes in roaming could be compensated with changes that make them better at objective fighting (mostly more tankiness at the cost of mobility/range).

    I can personally feel satisfied after losing a fight too if I got the opportunity to play well and did so (and it some degree mattered). However losing a fight after not getting the opportunity to actually play well is insanely frustrating in a way that makes you not wanna bother to continue posting while losing a fight when you had the opportunity to play well but didn't is frustrating in a completely different and much less exhausting way.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    I build to roam which means taking objectives and maybe killing players when I can. But I need to be confident of the kill, cause if I lose I have to run back to get the objectives again.

    Roaming's purpose is to kill players, taking objectives is a way to lure people out, if objectives are your primary goal you're doing something else (not meant as a bad thing just not the same thing).

    in that case i am very often not roaming, but doing something else. you will hardly be able to tell the difference tho, as the difference is just my intention.

    Then I guess you aren't, but the term generally doesn't refer to people who primarily cap small objectives (as their goal,while the goal for a roamer would be to find fights).

    no, just taking objectives is not the goal. taking the objective from someone is the goal. so i like to take objectives that my opponent wants to protect. that doesnt have to inculde an actually fight tho. and i usually go for towers/keeps. camps are just for supplies and sentries to help me track opponents, i dont see how taking them would be anything worth a primary goal - its just too easy, like killing other players.

    Well if you're talking keeps that's def not roaming. Playing objectives is the opposite of roaming. Especially if taking them doesn't lead to a fight.

    Killing other players here generally means finding satisfying fights, that can be a 1v3 vs bads or an 1v1 with a good player or w/e else kinda PvP one finds fun, even if it's something not challenging like instabursting semi-afk people from stealth.

    How is easy or not isn't really relevant to what it is, roaming is just a name for when you're very few people (max 2 maybe 3) and your goal is to find fights and you couldn't care less for the objectives/scoreboard.

    thats what roaming is to you. but that i guess is a big issue on this forum, there is no definition of what roaming is, that everyone does agree on. that makes it very hard to discuss anything roaming related.

    Well very few people refer to objective players really when talking roamers. Most discussions I see are related to the size of the group.

    if its just groupsize, then i am a roamer tho. even when playing for objectives.

    I am not saying it's groupsize primarily. I am saying what people disagree on when it comes to roaming is generally groupsize.

    However the vast majority of discussions I see come with the viewpoint that roaming is the opposite of playing for objectives.

    i dont think opposite is the correct term for it, but i guess i understand your view.
    that explains why people are so upset with 'roaming balance', if you play by your own rules within a set mode you cant really expect it to be balanced around your rules.
    as said above the fight as such is nearly impossible to balance as it will mostly be decided by kiting ability/range advantage. now one can be upset about that, if that is the only thing you care for. but once you play for objectives, once you play for score regardless of groupsize, then the professions are much more balanced and mostly the population inbalance will be your issue. and you can 'win' in your goals despite losing a fight.

    Yet quite a few people are just interested in having good fights and think the score is just a number they personally can't affect (to a relevant degree).

    You must realize a lot of roamers don't even stomp but just cleave downs after winning fights because they just genuinely couldn't care less about the scoreboard. I am included in this category.

    The problem is if there's no scoreboard/objectives etc there's noone to fight. But roaming balance doesn't have to be at odds with objective balance, the changes needed to the dominant classes in roaming could be compensated with changes that make them better at objective fighting (mostly more tankiness at the cost of mobility/range).

    I can personally feel satisfied after losing a fight too if I got the opportunity to play well and did so (and it some degree mattered). However losing a fight after not getting the opportunity to actually play well is insanely frustrating in a way that makes you not wanna bother to continue posting while losing a fight when you had the opportunity to play well but didn't is frustrating in a completely different and much less exhausting way.

    but dont you see that the only reason it is frustrating is because you only care about the fight and not about the reason to fight? the moment you priorize the objectives, you will approach fights differently and IMO as the professions are much more balanced that way it is less frustrating, wich usually results in more fun. having more tankiness at the cost of mobility / range will force you to approach objectives in a different way, you basically limit the diversity and options you have only to cater to people who ignore half of the mode they play.

    read this, become a better player now.

<1
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