ARCDPS damage is a hoax

Hitman.5829 · January 12, 2019

The damage recorded is the total damage done, not the damage per target.Why do guilds base builds and class performance on this?Suppose a theoretical skill can tag 10000 players but the damage it does is 50, then the total damage dealt is 10000*50 =500000That seems a lot, but infact it is crap because it does 50 per target.

The same thing applies to classes that can tag 5 players with one skill; those classes seem to do a lot of damage as recorded by ARCDPS, but infact they are not even close to the potential of a melee warrior damage.

If you want to find the damage per target of a 5 target class, just divide the damage in ARCDPS by 5 and you will start to realize that warrior is the master race.Warrior has an average of 3 targets per skill, so go and do the math!

Once guilds start to realize this and once they refuse to play the pirate ship bull excrement, we will be back to the glorious days of melee combat!

SkyShroud.2865 · January 12, 2019

Because there is no skill that can tag 10,000 people?

Guilds look at total damage because they looking at the damage throughout that one fight.The total damage then can be broken down to skills usage if you click on the player in arcdps. From there, the skills can be further broken down to number of activation etc. From there you can determine if the person hitting or not hitting, if the person using the skills or not using the skills, if the person stripping or not stripping etc. Some skills also do more damage than others so if the skills usage are correct, then certain skills should be ranked higher than others. In other words, if "retaliation" top the dps chart for a dps class, that player got problem.

Hitman.5829 · January 12, 2019

@SkyShroud.2865 said:Because there is no skill that can tag 10,000 people?

its a theoretical example to show how absurd it is to say the the higest damage was the most efficient.As you can see with the 10000 people tag, the damage is exagerated, but in fact it only dealth 50 per target.So, the same thing applies to 5 target skills.

SkyShroud.2865 · January 12, 2019

@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:Because there is no skill that can tag 10,000 people?

its a theoretical example to show how absurd it is to say the the higest damage was the most efficient.As you can see with the 10000 people tag, the damage is exagerated, but in fact it only dealth 50 per target.So, the same thing applies to 5 target skills.

Isn't that the whole point of aoe? Otherwise, why would we call it AOE? We use AOE for obvious reasons, to down as many people as possible. Why would you care about single damage dps? Does your single target damage help wipe a blob?

Furthermore, expectations is set base on the understanding of the aoe skills. Thus, the total damage expected is also within certain range.

Tammuz.7361 · January 12, 2019

@"SkyShroud.2865" said:Because there is no skill that can tag 10,000 people?
Guilds look at total damage because they looking at the damage throughout that one fight.The total damage then can be broken down to skills usage if you click on the player in arcdps. From there, the skills can be further broken down to number of activation etc. From there you can determine if the person hitting or not hitting, if the person using the skills or not using the skills, if the person stripping or not stripping etc. Some skills also do more damage than others so if the skills usage are correct, then certain skills should be ranked higher than others. In other words, if "retaliation" top the dps chart for a dps class, that player got problem.

either that or the raid leader got a problem... but yeah

Hitman.5829 · January 12, 2019

@SkyShroud.2865 said:
@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:Because there is no skill that can tag 10,000 people?

its a theoretical example to show how absurd it is to say the the higest damage was the most efficient.As you can see with the 10000 people tag, the damage is exagerated, but in fact it only dealth 50 per target.So, the same thing applies to 5 target skills.

Isn't that the whole point of aoe? Otherwise, why would we call it AOE? We use AOE for obvious reasons, to down as many people as possible. Why would you care about single damage dps? Does your single target damage help wipe a blob?

Single damage is a spike. The higher the single damage the better.perhaps you don't understand the basic math behind damage.What good does it serve to have AOE skills targeting 10000 people of the damage per target is 50?Now, the problem with GW2 is that AoE damage is not that low, so you will get kills by droping AoE en masse, but it is better to melee train them for a higher damage spike.

bq pd.2148 · January 12, 2019

@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:
@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:Because there is no skill that can tag 10,000 people?

its a theoretical example to show how absurd it is to say the the higest damage was the most efficient.As you can see with the 10000 people tag, the damage is exagerated, but in fact it only dealth 50 per target.So, the same thing applies to 5 target skills.

Isn't that the whole point of aoe? Otherwise, why would we call it AOE? We use AOE for obvious reasons, to down as many people as possible. Why would you care about single damage dps? Does your single target damage help wipe a blob?

Single damage is a spike. The higher the single damage the better.perhaps you don't understand the basic math behind damage.What good does it serve to have AOE skills targeting 10000 people of the damage per target is 50?Now, the problem with GW2 is that AoE damage is not that low, so you will get kills by droping AoE en masse, but it is better to melee train them for a higher damage spike.

and why kill people with single target damage, when you can kill a group with AoE ?if we had groups of 10000+ fighting each other then half of your zerg doing 50 dmg each will still result in 250000 dmg per target for an instant kill.your not fighting the zerg alone, its a group vs group. you dont need to kill one single person alone as you can kill an entire group with coordinated usage of AoE.overkill on a single target is not efficient, its a waste of resources.

normally i would assume you know that given your playtime in that mode, but i am really not sure with these frequent weird threads you start..

Hitman.5829 · January 12, 2019

@MUDse.7623 said:
@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:
@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:Because there is no skill that can tag 10,000 people?

its a theoretical example to show how absurd it is to say the the higest damage was the most efficient.As you can see with the 10000 people tag, the damage is exagerated, but in fact it only dealth 50 per target.So, the same thing applies to 5 target skills.

Isn't that the whole point of aoe? Otherwise, why would we call it AOE? We use AOE for obvious reasons, to down as many people as possible. Why would you care about single damage dps? Does your single target damage help wipe a blob?

Single damage is a spike. The higher the single damage the better.perhaps you don't understand the basic math behind damage.What good does it serve to have AOE skills targeting 10000 people of the damage per target is 50?Now, the problem with GW2 is that AoE damage is not that low, so you will get kills by droping AoE en masse, but it is better to melee train them for a higher damage spike.

and why kill people with single target damage, when you can kill a group with AoE ?if we had groups of 10000+ fighting each other then half of your zerg doing 50 dmg each will still result in 250000 dmg per target for an instant kill.your not fighting the zerg alone, its a group vs group. you dont need to kill one single person alone as you can kill an entire group with coordinated usage of AoE.

normally i would assume you know that given your playtime in that mode, but i am really not sure with these frequent weird threads you start..

Sigh,I am stating that ARCDPS damage is not a reflection of how bad a class is because it measures "collateral damage."If you compare warrior vs revenant, the revenant will have more damage dealth, but the damage is spread in 5 targets.Warrior on the other hand will have lower damage recorded in ARCDPS, but the damage is spread in 3 targets average.

Therefore, when you do the calculation of damage per target, warrior will always win the damage battle.

Ashen.2907 · January 12, 2019

@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:
@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:Because there is no skill that can tag 10,000 people?

its a theoretical example to show how absurd it is to say the the higest damage was the most efficient.As you can see with the 10000 people tag, the damage is exagerated, but in fact it only dealth 50 per target.So, the same thing applies to 5 target skills.

Isn't that the whole point of aoe? Otherwise, why would we call it AOE? We use AOE for obvious reasons, to down as many people as possible. Why would you care about single damage dps? Does your single target damage help wipe a blob?

Single damage is a spike. The higher the single damage the better.perhaps you don't understand the basic math behind damage.What good does it serve to have AOE skills targeting 10000 people of the damage per target is 50?Now, the problem with GW2 is that AoE damage is not that low, so you will get kills by droping AoE en masse, but it is better to melee train them for a higher damage spike.

Player A kills one enemy with your single target spike damage while Player B kills several enemies with AoE. Player B has done more for his side.

SkyShroud.2865 · January 12, 2019

@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:
@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:Because there is no skill that can tag 10,000 people?

its a theoretical example to show how absurd it is to say the the higest damage was the most efficient.As you can see with the 10000 people tag, the damage is exagerated, but in fact it only dealth 50 per target.So, the same thing applies to 5 target skills.

Isn't that the whole point of aoe? Otherwise, why would we call it AOE? We use AOE for obvious reasons, to down as many people as possible. Why would you care about single damage dps? Does your single target damage help wipe a blob?

Single damage is a spike. The higher the single damage the better.perhaps you don't understand the basic math behind damage.What good does it serve to have AOE skills targeting 10000 people of the damage per target is 50?Now, the problem with GW2 is that AoE damage is not that low, so you will get kills by droping AoE en masse, but it is better to melee train them for a higher damage spike.

Spike can be any forms. At the same time, we also need to account for situations if you can even melee attack it without getting punished for doing so.

You are looking at dps in narrow perspective, that of a pve raid.

Jski.6180 · January 12, 2019

Its good for a same class vs same class benchmark but should not be used to see different class vs different class in a group there just simply too much going on then just dmg for most classes that you cant see well.

bq pd.2148 · January 12, 2019

@Hitman.5829 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:
@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:Because there is no skill that can tag 10,000 people?

its a theoretical example to show how absurd it is to say the the higest damage was the most efficient.As you can see with the 10000 people tag, the damage is exagerated, but in fact it only dealth 50 per target.So, the same thing applies to 5 target skills.

Isn't that the whole point of aoe? Otherwise, why would we call it AOE? We use AOE for obvious reasons, to down as many people as possible. Why would you care about single damage dps? Does your single target damage help wipe a blob?

Single damage is a spike. The higher the single damage the better.perhaps you don't understand the basic math behind damage.What good does it serve to have AOE skills targeting 10000 people of the damage per target is 50?Now, the problem with GW2 is that AoE damage is not that low, so you will get kills by droping AoE en masse, but it is better to melee train them for a higher damage spike.

and why kill people with single target damage, when you can kill a group with AoE ?if we had groups of 10000+ fighting each other then half of your zerg doing 50 dmg each will still result in 250000 dmg per target for an instant kill.your not fighting the zerg alone, its a group vs group. you dont need to kill one single person alone as you can kill an entire group with coordinated usage of AoE.

normally i would assume you know that given your playtime in that mode, but i am really not sure with these frequent weird threads you start..

Sigh,I am stating that ARCDPS damage is not a reflection of how bad a class is because it measures "collateral damage."If you compare warrior vs revenant, the revenant will have more damage dealth, but the damage is spread in 5 targets.Warrior on the other hand will have lower damage recorded in ARCDPS, but the damage is spread in 3 targets average.

Therefore, when you do the calculation of damage per target, warrior will always win the damage battle.

why would you calculate damage per target tho?you hit the same target with multiple people.

killing a single person is not difficult for a zerg. but you have to kill multiple people with you zerg, so you have to avoid overkills. that is much easier done with AoE, because trying to do it with single target will require much more coordination, so much that it is not efficient and prone to errors.

you might have hit a single person for more, but that is only good if that extra damage was needed to begin with and is not lacking on another target.

Jeknar.6184 · January 12, 2019

@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:
@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:Because there is no skill that can tag 10,000 people?

its a theoretical example to show how absurd it is to say the the higest damage was the most efficient.As you can see with the 10000 people tag, the damage is exagerated, but in fact it only dealth 50 per target.So, the same thing applies to 5 target skills.

Isn't that the whole point of aoe? Otherwise, why would we call it AOE? We use AOE for obvious reasons, to down as many people as possible. Why would you care about single damage dps? Does your single target damage help wipe a blob?

Single damage is a spike. The higher the single damage the better.perhaps you don't understand the basic math behind damage.What good does it serve to have AOE skills targeting 10000 people of the damage per target is 50?Now, the problem with GW2 is that AoE damage is not that low, so you will get kills by droping AoE en masse, but it is better to melee train them for a higher damage spike.

If Single Target damage was so useful in zerg fights, Thieves and Rangers would be the kings of WvW

Optimator.3589 · January 12, 2019

Total damage matters. It's called pressure. Makes sustain more difficult by forcing heal usage. If you can keep AoE going while counting down to a focused spike, it makes that spike much more effective because the enemy has fewer resources left to recover with.

That said, it's not the be-all and end-all in determining how good someone is in combat. If an ele drops a huge meteor storm but then turns into rallybait because he's out of position, he's not very useful.

Israel.7056 · January 12, 2019

So start your guild and run nothing but warriors.

Dawdler.8521 · January 12, 2019

@Jeknar.6184 said:Thieves and Rangers would be the kings of WvWWait, they're not?! :(

Infusion.7149 · January 12, 2019

eh...

As mostly guardian , mesmer, and rev (both backline and frontline) the highest hits I see are from revenant CoR / phase smash and meteor from very glass staff eles. There's some ridiculous soulbeast hits from worldly impact or other such off the wall builds, but as far as on a regular basis I would say revs.

I've played spellbreaker with far more aggressive stats than metabattle (full zerk trinkets and weapons) so I can tell you for a fact it is not fun if you get CCed. I've even run axe mastery trait with double axes (don't be bubble # 1 if doing this), instead of GS+ hammer I ran axes + hammer , I was pushing over 230% crit damage. You can get around the CC issue a bit with stances and dogged march but ultimately you're relying on guardians , scrappers, and scourges to cleanse. If you aren't running spellbreaker then you aren't being as useful to your squad as you could be, as break enchantments and Winds of Disenchantment are useful to avoid boon reapplication via condi to boon conversion. Running warhorn like old times or "Shake it off" should only be considered if your squad and/or party isn't consistent with condi clear whatsoever.

I retired ele a while ago and after maxing every weapon mastery ele has I have zero incentive to play it. If you look at damage coefficients , meteor is lower than CoR and involves far higher risk (time and zero movement allowed while casting). Ele has an advantage when terrain is poor or line of sight can't be achieved on siege, but phase smash isn't bad at all.

If one person goes down a guardian with Merciful intervention can get them back up, whereas if multiple or more drop in a well , phase smash, or in a meteor shower it is far harder to deal with.

I would not advise bringing more than a few warriors, you'll be eaten alive by scourges because the only ranged warrior option that isn't condi is rifle. It's certainly fun to play a damaging frontliner warrior, but truly consider playing revenant with staff , the 10 person fury and 5 person superspeed are well worth it and if the scourges are trying to bait you just throw hammers.

Safandula.8723 · January 12, 2019

It's not a math issue, it is logic.Tell us why zergs are not made of deadeyes if they have such a good single target dmg

Voltekka.2375 · January 12, 2019

Is this another troll post? If not, do we really have to point out the difference between single target dmg and AoE dmg? Plus, do we need to point out the different roles each class in wvw has, and theyre not always about dps? Weird things indeed.

Astralporing.1957 · January 12, 2019

You do realize that arc tracks both single target and cleave damage, right? It's just a case of configuring the display options.

Aktium.9506 · January 12, 2019

I'm not sure if it tracks it on players since I hide the arc ui in PvP and WvW, OP. But ArcDPS tracks Area DPS/Target DPS/Total Damage done.

shortcake.8659 · January 12, 2019

I wish I had a 50 target cap skill. Imagine how fun fights would be when you opened up by one-shotting yourself on retaliation damage.

Cyninja.2954 · January 12, 2019

@Astralporing.1957 said:You do realize that arc tracks both single target and cleave damage, right? It's just a case of configuring the display options.

Please, no rational thought in the popcorn threads. You are asking to much Astralporing. :3

@Hitman.5829 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:
@Hitman.5829 said:
@SkyShroud.2865 said:Because there is no skill that can tag 10,000 people?

its a theoretical example to show how absurd it is to say the the higest damage was the most efficient.As you can see with the 10000 people tag, the damage is exagerated, but in fact it only dealth 50 per target.So, the same thing applies to 5 target skills.

Isn't that the whole point of aoe? Otherwise, why would we call it AOE? We use AOE for obvious reasons, to down as many people as possible. Why would you care about single damage dps? Does your single target damage help wipe a blob?

Single damage is a spike. The higher the single damage the better.perhaps you don't understand the basic math behind damage.What good does it serve to have AOE skills targeting 10000 people of the damage per target is 50?Now, the problem with GW2 is that AoE damage is not that low, so you will get kills by droping AoE en masse, but it is better to melee train them for a higher damage spike.

and why kill people with single target damage, when you can kill a group with AoE ?if we had groups of 10000+ fighting each other then half of your zerg doing 50 dmg each will still result in 250000 dmg per target for an instant kill.your not fighting the zerg alone, its a group vs group. you dont need to kill one single person alone as you can kill an entire group with coordinated usage of AoE.

normally i would assume you know that given your playtime in that mode, but i am really not sure with these frequent weird threads you start..

Sigh,I am stating that ARCDPS damage is not a reflection of how bad a class is because it measures "collateral damage."If you compare warrior vs revenant, the revenant will have more damage dealth, but the damage is spread in 5 targets.Warrior on the other hand will have lower damage recorded in ARCDPS, but the damage is spread in 3 targets average.

Therefore, when you do the calculation of damage per target, warrior will always win the damage battle.

You must be new to WvW.

Having 30-40 or more classes who do collateral damage is pretty much been the main tactic in big zerg fights ever since day 1 of this game mode. You simply do not understand what arc is good for (not a lot in wvw at that).

@Hitman.5829 said:Therefore, when you do the calculation of damage per target, warrior will always win the damage battle.

Assuming that warrior is the class with the highest single target damage, which it is not.

Loosmaster.8263 · January 12, 2019

Don't use and stay away from anybody that does. You'll be better off. I only use it for ping/fps monitor. All damage info is off.

Aeolus.3615 · January 12, 2019

@Loosmaster.8263 said:Don't use and stay away from anybody that does. You'll be better off. I only use it for ping/fps monitor. All damage info is off.

Dont gw2 comes with a fps metter in options?

My worries with the overlays is that theres overaly to actually say where enemies are in the map, IMO Anet should change a bit the interface/UI of the game and imbue some stuff that the overlays do.

ARCDPS damage is a hoax

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