Discussion: Macros and Macro Use

This thread is for discussion of Policy: Macros and Macro Use.

Least we have it officially that we can macro our music playing, though I do wish I was as good as some of those musicians roaming out in Tyria.

So, jump and dodge together are ok.

Also, auto clickers for bags.... Very nice....

This is one that came up in map chat the other day.

Arcdps, now I know they've said this is ok, however apparently there is an addon that allows you to save and load builds. I've seen videos of it and it seems that one click will allow you to load in different armour, weapons, traits and skills automatically.

So is this a macro or not and if not why not? Is there an Official answer to this?

@"Andy.5981" said:Arcdps, now I know they've said this is ok, however apparently there is an addon that allows you to save and load builds. I've seen videos of it and it seems that one click will allow you to load in different armour, weapons, traits and skills automatically.It's fine.

So is this a macro or not and if not why not?I don't think it's a useful question. If it's a macro, it's an allowed one, because the developer of the software worked with ANet to arrange an exception. And because it doesn't allow one to play better or faster; it just helps people swap gear & traits & skills.(It's a bit like worrying about why the verb "to be" doesn't follow the usual rules; it just doesn't.)

Is there an Official answer to this?Yes. A dev posted a while back, after reviewing the feature, that it is okay to use.

With the caveat that your gear might get lost (and ANet will not replace it). I believe this might have actually happened, when ANet changed how the game's mechanics worked (as part of the sigil|rune overhaul) and people used Arc without waiting for the corresponding update. Essentially, the game handles the items differently now and Arc hasn't yet been "taught" the new system.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Andy.5981" said:Arcdps, now I know they've said this is ok, however apparently there is an addon that allows you to save and load builds. I've seen videos of it and it seems that one click will allow you to load in different armour, weapons, traits and skills automatically.It's fine.

So is this a macro or not and if not why not?I don't think it's a useful question. If it's a macro, it's an allowed one, because the developer of the software worked with ANet to arrange an exception. And because it doesn't allow one to play better or faster; it just helps people swap gear & traits & skills.(It's a bit like worrying about why the verb "to be" doesn't follow the usual rules; it just doesn't.)

Is there an Official answer to this?Yes. A dev posted a while back, after reviewing the feature, that it is okay to use.

Having read that second question "So is this a macro or not and if not why not?", then yes you are right it isn't worded correctly, it should just be "is this considered a macro or not?"

When it was discussed in map chat, my opinion was that it automated a number of changes in the UI, such as traits, swapped out items of equipment etc., so it had to be a macro. It isn't a case of one click one action, but multiple actions. Now if the Devs are ok with this fine.

Within the PvE environment it perhaps doesn't give anyone an advantage over anyone else, but within the WvW environment it does.

If two players are within sight of each other and one has the add on to ARCDPS enabled and the second player hasn't, the player with the addon can load in a build that could counteract the other player far far quicker than the one without and attack. From high damage glass cannon to say a bunker build within fractions of a second. Surely that is an unfair advantage?

@Andy.5981 said:Within the PvE environment it perhaps doesn't give anyone an advantage over anyone else, but within the WvW environment it does.It's 100% disabled in PvP (Arc, not just templates). I am not sure about WvW; I know it doesn't work if you're in combat. I don't think it really matters that much: unless you're skilled enough to know to swap builds, it won't matter. And in that case, it's likely that the other person also is similarly setup. Still, it's up to ANet to decide whether something is an advantage, fair or otherwise; it's not up to us.

Regardless: I personally would have no problem with Arc's templates being disabled in WvW and (b) until ANet says otherwise, it's still fine to use.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Andy.5981 said:Within the PvE environment it perhaps doesn't give anyone an advantage over anyone else, but within the WvW environment it does.It's 100% disabled in PvP (Arc, not just templates). I am not sure about WvW; I know it doesn't work if you're in combat. I don't think it really matters that much: unless you're skilled enough to know to swap builds, it won't matter. And in that case, it's likely that the other person also is similarly setup. Still, it's up to ANet to decide whether something is an advantage, fair or otherwise; it's not up to us.

Thanks for the reply.

I don't use ARCdps so I wasn't aware that it was disabled within PvP. It makes sense in a competitive environment. It would be interesting if someone who uses it and does play WvW could confirm if it works in that game mode? Secondly do they use it just to set up their build or do they alter it on the fly whilst encountering certain classes? Would they say that it gives them an edge?

@"Andy.5981" said:I don't use ARCdpsFirst, you should know that the build templates are a separate module. You can essentially use the DPS meter with templates or vice versa.

I wasn't aware that it was disabled within PvP. It makes sense in a competitive environment.PvP gear is different: it uses stats selected from a menu, not from gear. Unless the ArcDPS dev rewrote their code, the template module wouldn't work anyhow.

It would be interesting if someone who uses it and does play WvW could confirm if it works in that game mode?The DPS meter works. The templates module works with restrictions: there's an additional delay of half a second.

Would they say that it gives them an edge?People don't use tools between fights unless there's an some advantage.The relevant question is "does ANet think it's unfair?" I think we don't really have any evidence one way or another, except that Arc's dev wasn't asked to disable or massively restrict swapping in WvW zones.

The companion question is: do we think ANet should make that request? As a person more likely to be on the losing side of a fight against skilled opponents, I'd say "no: allow it," because I'd rather have the convenience of swapping between "zerg" and "roamer" builds anyhow. (Although I'd also be fine if the post-combat delay was increased to be closer to half a minute, instead of 500 ms.)

am i allowed to use a marco to craft stuff with the mistic forge so i don't have to click a million times? ofc i will sit infront of my computer the whole time and watch. i just don't wanna click that often.

@hello.5864 said:am i allowed to use a marco to craft stuff with the mistic forge so i don't have to click a million times? ofc i will sit infront of my computer the whole time and watch. i just don't wanna click that often.

You are not.

The official statement about macros for music was posted long, long ago.Same for dodge/jump.I've not seen the 'auto-clicker is ok' statement before; but, using your scroll wheel to enable clicks was allowed previously, so I guess it did/does not matter now.

@hello.5864 said:am i allowed to use a marco to craft stuff with the mistic forge so i don't have to click a million times? ofc i will sit infront of my computer the whole time and watch. i just don't wanna click that often.

If it follows the one for one rule and you're present while it's happening, you should be okay per the revised rules.

If one click adds all four items at the same time, or one click adds an item and also confirms something at the same time? You're in trouble. You'll have to take care to be very specific that each action does only one thing per click event. If something happens, it happens. Don't risk it if you don't know what you're doing.

i'm still not sure about all of this since a mystic forge makro wouldn't give me an "unfair advantage over other players" (it's not faster than clicking on the items) and i am not away from my computer. So I think it should be fine. But it would be really nice to have a dev response.

@"hello.5864" said:i'm still not sure about all of this since a mystic forge makro wouldn't give me an "unfair advantage over other players" (it's not faster than clicking on the items) and i am not away from my computer. So I think it should be fine. But it would be really nice to have a dev response.

Rather than have a rule with a bunch of exceptions, it is just easier to have the rule with no exceptions.

Its better to have no rules at all , unless "unfair advantage" is defined in a way thats understandable by all players.If I have a better faster PC than you do I have an unfair advantage, but this is allowed.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"hello.5864" said:i'm still not sure about all of this since a mystic forge makro wouldn't give me an "unfair advantage over other players" (it's not faster than clicking on the items) and i am not away from my computer. So I think it should be fine. But it would be really nice to have a dev response.

Both of these are too extreme. Anet's middle ground is ideal and refreshing.

@"hello.5864" said:i'm still not sure about all of this since a mystic forge makro wouldn't give me an "unfair advantage over other players" (it's not faster than clicking on the items) and i am not away from my computer. So I think it should be fine. But it would be really nice to have a dev response.

As long as your macro follows the one action per click event and it doesn't give you a gameplay advantage (adding items to the mystic forge doesn't), you'll be okay as long as you keep the one for one rule in mind.

Like I said if you make a macro that does multiple things for you in a single click, you're in trouble. Keep it simple and take care that each macro event is a "one press does one thing" at a time.

Though to be fair making a macro for the mystic forge seems inherently risky. If you don't count the items and specify the parameters exactly (where the items are in your bags, starting points and ending points), you'll almost certainly forge away your alt weapons or armor.

If you're going to completely empty your bags and fill up with items you're forging, the convenience of a macro is sort of defeated. The mystic forge doesn't lend itself well to doing something like this as opposed to using an autoclicker to get through a stack or something.

That's for you to decide. If something bad happens though, don't expect support.

We just had a discussion among Guildies.

"You cannot use macros to create skill chains in any competitive environment, including PvP, WvW, open world activities, races, etc."

One person is pointing out that the Policy stated "Competitive Environment" so it would not apply to open world non-competitive environments such as traveling through a zone. Meaning you can macro multiple skills into a single button as long as you don't use that macro in a competitive part of the game like WvW, PvP, events, etc.

True?

@"Rutte.4689" said:"You cannot use macros to create skill chains in any competitive environment, including PvP, WvW, open world activities, races, etc."

One person is pointing out that the Policy stated "Competitive Environment" so it would not apply to open world non-competitive environments such as traveling through a zone. Meaning you can macro multiple skills into a single button as long as you don't use that macro in a competitive part of the game like WvW, PvP, events, etc.

True?

Not in the way you phrased it, no. Look at the entire policy, not just that one line.You cannot use macros to fully automate a character ("bot") in the game. Each macro should represent a single action that requires user input before repeating the action.

Moving through the open world without your input is, by ANet's definition, "botting." It's not a single action; it's multiple actions chained together.

@"hello.5864" said:am i allowed to use a marco to craft stuff with the mistic forge so i don't have to click a million times? ofc i will sit infront of my computer the whole time and watch. i just don't wanna click that often.

Several rules are relevant to answer that:

• You may create an auto-clicker that opens or consumes a stack of items.
• You cannot use macros for the sole purpose of farming items, currencies, karma, or other benefits in the game, particularly while away from the keyboard (AFK).
• You cannot use macros to fully automate a character ("bot") in the game. Each macro should represent a single action that requires user input before repeating the action.

Use of the forge is more than opening or consuming. It is a type of farm that requires multiple actions to succeed. More importantly, it gains you a huge market advantage over others who don't use auto-clickers. The very reason that some items have the TP prices they do is the fact that it is a pain to forge or craft them; if it were easier, more people would produce them, driving the price down. In effect, those buying the items on the TP are paying you (as the mystic forger) for your time, so that they (the buyers) don't have to spend their time.

Automating the process means they are simply paying you for inventing a macro and I hope it's clear why ANet couldn't allow that.

While I agree with the comments in reply to my post and I have been trying to explain this point to my friends, why can't ANet just make a clear statement "A Macro cannot be assigned to more than one Skill/Keybind"? Why do they have to leave so much up to interpretation and hence these long drawn out threads and my discussions with my guildies that want to interpret the wording to other than the intent? The way they word their ToS allows a player that really wants to use Macros to "interpret" it very loosely and other than the way it was meant.

So based on this post https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65554/policy-macros-and-macro-use never states the entire policy . It gives some examples of ok and some examples of not ok. After reading all the agreements and such that i can find online it does not look like they will ever show the entire policy as it will always remain at their discretion for how they want to define it. This is their right and if people make macros based solely on the extremely vague comment in the above post then they can take their own chances.

@"Rutte.4689" said:While I agree with the comments in reply to my post and I have been trying to explain this point to my friends, why can't ANet just make a clear statement "A Macro cannot be assigned to more than one Skill/Keybind"? Why do they have to leave so much up to interpretation and hence these long drawn out threads and my discussions with my guildies that want to interpret the wording to other than the intent?

Because of the very discussion you had. As soon as they make it 100% specific, "it's this and nothing else," someone finds a reasonable reason for an exception and someone else finds a way to exploit the bit they forgot to clarify. They have to leave room for the policy to apply to situations that they haven't yet thought of.

There are times when it's simply not a big deal for people to use more than one "action," including auto-consuming and the dodge-jump (which at this point, is all-but-automatic for some players, so arguably it's a disadvantage for some not to allow it). For other situations, it's self-evident to anyone wanting to play fair, and specifying those circumstances is overkill.

The way they word their ToS allows a player that really wants to use Macros to "interpret" it very loosely and other than the way it was meant.I don't really see it as confusing. People see what they want to see. Just look at all the discussions about "unattended" farming. Those who hate the idea of people getting loot for little effort have interpreted the explicit parts of the rules to suit their preferences; those who want to farm while being able to leave the room for 5-10 minutes at a time interpret those same rules as if it gives them permission.

People see what they want to see.

I have profession skills assigned to shift+1 +2 +3 +4 +5 (f1 to f5 basically). My scroll wheel press is shift+5, but it's useless for revenant for example where there is only 1 profession ability.

My question is: can I assign macro on my mouse like shift▽, 5▽, 5△, 1▽, 1△, shift△ (no delay at all). Such macro will use F5 skill if it exists on my character, if it's on cooldown it won't use f1 because the whole macro is instant. On characters without 5th profession skill, however, it will use F1 ability because there is no F5 skill and no cooldown between skill uses will be triggered.

In-game example: On Soulbeast, only Beastmode ability will be used, if it's on cooldown, cooldown prompt will show instead of using F1. On Revenant F1 will be used without any cooldown msg.

I understand that skill chain macros are not allowed, but because this will always use one skill, it's not a chain, it's one action per one click, so in my opinion I'd be following ToS and I won't gain any advantage if I'd be using this, I'm hoping for dev answer ;]