Will mirage ever get a proper nerf? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Will mirage ever get a proper nerf?

UfoCoffee.2084UfoCoffee.2084 Member ✭✭✭
edited January 16, 2019 in PVP

It's back to when scourges were op. They are ruining PvP. I needed a mist core fragment last night and so grinded out some sPvP which i don't normally do off season and there were 80% of the time 4 mirage in each game. Needless to say it was about as much fun as having my toenails pulled out with pliers.

Something needs to be done in next patch otherwise pvp population will drop again. Guildies have stopped playing pvp until they are fixed.

Mirage mains will try saying L2P as ofc lazy people will always pick godmode class to climb easily but people like Shorts who is one of the best mesmers out there are always saying how OP and brainless condi mesmer is and yet we have average mesmer mains on here trying to say they are ok.

I wouldn't mind their condi application if you could fight back, but it's nearly impossible to hit or catch them. If they want to run they just sword ambush or blink away or stealth etc You're seeeing more and more boonbeasts as they are the only class who has a chance versus them 1v1 if they're capping a node. Also even when i dodge their initial burst i still get some condis through my evade?

D/P DD thief was nerfed to the ground as they had so many ways to escape and mobility so Anet said they shouldn't have damage too, yet Mirage is exactly the same and still has crazy damage? I don't get it.

<134

Comments

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UfoCoffee.2084 said:

    I wouldn't mind their condi application if you could fight back, but it's nearly impossible to hit or catch them. If they want to run they just sword ambush or blink away or stealth etc You're seeeing more and more boonbeasts as they are the only class who has a chance versus them 1v1 if they're capping a node. Also even when i dodge their initial burst i still get some condis through my evade?

    D/P DD thief was nerfed to the ground as they had so many ways to escape and mobility so Anet said they shouldn't have damage too, yet Mirage is exactly the same and still has crazy damage? I don't get it.

    Interesting note.
    You complain about condi mes. Yet think the defenses. Which power mes also has, is the issue?
    Why don't we see complaints about power mes? Because you have a chance to actively fight them.
    So logically. If condi mes is the problem, then you need to tone down condi application. The reason why condi is still a problem. Is because of people like you.
    Asking for changes around the core problem. Like the time people cried about torch. Instead of asking for things like duration reduction on condition applications of clones using IH. Or stack and duration reductions from shatters. Lowering the condi output of scepter and axe.
    You know, things that are actually meaningful instead of the things you're complaining about.
    If you aren't going to attempt to root out the issue then you could have added your post to the other cry thread. Since it didn't even have an impactful suggestion to the build that's broken

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    I wouldn't mind their condi application if you could fight back, but it's nearly impossible to hit or catch them. If they want to run they just sword ambush or blink away or stealth etc You're seeeing more and more boonbeasts as they are the only class who has a chance versus them 1v1 if they're capping a node. Also even when i dodge their initial burst i still get some condis through my evade?

    D/P DD thief was nerfed to the ground as they had so many ways to escape and mobility so Anet said they shouldn't have damage too, yet Mirage is exactly the same and still has crazy damage? I don't get it.

    Interesting note.
    You complain about condi mes. Yet think the defenses. Which power mes also has, is the issue?
    Why don't we see complaints about power mes? Because you have a chance to actively fight them.
    So logically. If condi mes is the problem, then you need to tone down condi application. The reason why condi is still a problem. Is because of people like you.
    Asking for changes around the core problem. Like the time people cried about torch. Instead of asking for things like duration reduction on condition applications of clones using IH. Or stack and duration reductions from shatters. Lowering the condi output of scepter and axe.
    You know, things that are actually meaningful instead of the things you're complaining about.
    If you aren't going to attempt to root out the issue then you could have added your post to the other cry thread. Since it didn't even have an impactful suggestion to the build that's broken

    nah, People are constantly complaining About Mirage defense (power and condi) because it allows you to be immune to everything while one shotting your enemy. even after the Opponent lands his cc on you you just press dodge and can instant one shot him. there is no counterplay, Nothing can punish a Mirage (power or condi) for playing a bad move.

    and when you Play wvw you also see a lot of power mirages since you can use way more effects to massively increase your Endurance gain for more dodges and ez disengage if your Opponent dodges properly.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    I wouldn't mind their condi application if you could fight back, but it's nearly impossible to hit or catch them. If they want to run they just sword ambush or blink away or stealth etc You're seeeing more and more boonbeasts as they are the only class who has a chance versus them 1v1 if they're capping a node. Also even when i dodge their initial burst i still get some condis through my evade?

    D/P DD thief was nerfed to the ground as they had so many ways to escape and mobility so Anet said they shouldn't have damage too, yet Mirage is exactly the same and still has crazy damage? I don't get it.

    Interesting note.
    You complain about condi mes. Yet think the defenses. Which power mes also has, is the issue?
    Why don't we see complaints about power mes? Because you have a chance to actively fight them.
    So logically. If condi mes is the problem, then you need to tone down condi application. The reason why condi is still a problem. Is because of people like you.
    Asking for changes around the core problem. Like the time people cried about torch. Instead of asking for things like duration reduction on condition applications of clones using IH. Or stack and duration reductions from shatters. Lowering the condi output of scepter and axe.
    You know, things that are actually meaningful instead of the things you're complaining about.
    If you aren't going to attempt to root out the issue then you could have added your post to the other cry thread. Since it didn't even have an impactful suggestion to the build that's broken

    nah, People are constantly complaining About Mirage defense (power and condi) because it allows you to be immune to everything while one shotting your enemy. even after the Opponent lands his cc on you you just press dodge and can instant one shot him. there is no counterplay, Nothing can punish a Mirage (power or condi) for playing a bad move.

    That's objectively false. Power has plenty of counters, most meta. Just because you on your necro build can't deal with them doesn't mean all of a sudden every one else can't.
    I would recommend trying the other classes that don't need a babysitter to be effective.

    and when you Play wvw you also see a lot of power mirages since you can use way more effects to massively increase your Endurance gain for more dodges and ez disengage if your Opponent dodges properly.

    This isn't WvW. Nor is this the subsection for it..endurance gain like the ones available for WvW don't exist or have been nerfed. Take that complaint to the other relevant section as it's totally irrelevant here

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • UfoCoffee.2084UfoCoffee.2084 Member ✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    I wouldn't mind their condi application if you could fight back, but it's nearly impossible to hit or catch them. If they want to run they just sword ambush or blink away or stealth etc You're seeeing more and more boonbeasts as they are the only class who has a chance versus them 1v1 if they're capping a node. Also even when i dodge their initial burst i still get some condis through my evade?

    D/P DD thief was nerfed to the ground as they had so many ways to escape and mobility so Anet said they shouldn't have damage too, yet Mirage is exactly the same and still has crazy damage? I don't get it.

    Interesting note.
    You complain about condi mes. Yet think the defenses. Which power mes also has, is the issue?
    Why don't we see complaints about power mes? Because you have a chance to actively fight them.
    So logically. If condi mes is the problem, then you need to tone down condi application. The reason why condi is still a problem. Is because of people like you.
    Asking for changes around the core problem. Like the time people cried about torch. Instead of asking for things like duration reduction on condition applications of clones using IH. Or stack and duration reductions from shatters. Lowering the condi output of scepter and axe.
    You know, things that are actually meaningful instead of the things you're complaining about.
    If you aren't going to attempt to root out the issue then you could have added your post to the other cry thread. Since it didn't even have an impactful suggestion to the build that's broken

    nah, People are constantly complaining About Mirage defense (power and condi) because it allows you to be immune to everything while one shotting your enemy. even after the Opponent lands his cc on you you just press dodge and can instant one shot him. there is no counterplay, Nothing can punish a Mirage (power or condi) for playing a bad move.

    That's objectively false. Power has plenty of counters, most meta. Just because you on your necro build can't deal with them doesn't mean all of a sudden every one else can't.
    I would recommend trying the other classes that don't need a babysitter to be effective.

    and when you Play wvw you also see a lot of power mirages since you can use way more effects to massively increase your Endurance gain for more dodges and ez disengage if your Opponent dodges properly.

    This isn't WvW. Nor is this the subsection for it..endurance gain like the ones available for WvW don't exist or have been nerfed. Take that complaint to the other relevant section as it's totally irrelevant here

    Pure and simple mesmer have way too much defense to have that much damage potential. Just like another roamer, d/p thief, they should have their damage neutered. I don't see how this would be a problem. They often have highest damage in a game. Other classes that output that kind of damage like scourge or reaper need a firebrand to babysit them or they're dead. Why should a mesmer be a one man wrecking ball with crazy survivability and damage?

    I'm guessing you're a mesmer main and so want to keep your godmode but if you play a class that's harder to play and to get results with you'll feel a lot better after beating someone or winning a game. Playing condi mesmer is just using a crutch.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UfoCoffee.2084 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    I wouldn't mind their condi application if you could fight back, but it's nearly impossible to hit or catch them. If they want to run they just sword ambush or blink away or stealth etc You're seeeing more and more boonbeasts as they are the only class who has a chance versus them 1v1 if they're capping a node. Also even when i dodge their initial burst i still get some condis through my evade?

    D/P DD thief was nerfed to the ground as they had so many ways to escape and mobility so Anet said they shouldn't have damage too, yet Mirage is exactly the same and still has crazy damage? I don't get it.

    Interesting note.
    You complain about condi mes. Yet think the defenses. Which power mes also has, is the issue?
    Why don't we see complaints about power mes? Because you have a chance to actively fight them.
    So logically. If condi mes is the problem, then you need to tone down condi application. The reason why condi is still a problem. Is because of people like you.
    Asking for changes around the core problem. Like the time people cried about torch. Instead of asking for things like duration reduction on condition applications of clones using IH. Or stack and duration reductions from shatters. Lowering the condi output of scepter and axe.
    You know, things that are actually meaningful instead of the things you're complaining about.
    If you aren't going to attempt to root out the issue then you could have added your post to the other cry thread. Since it didn't even have an impactful suggestion to the build that's broken

    nah, People are constantly complaining About Mirage defense (power and condi) because it allows you to be immune to everything while one shotting your enemy. even after the Opponent lands his cc on you you just press dodge and can instant one shot him. there is no counterplay, Nothing can punish a Mirage (power or condi) for playing a bad move.

    That's objectively false. Power has plenty of counters, most meta. Just because you on your necro build can't deal with them doesn't mean all of a sudden every one else can't.
    I would recommend trying the other classes that don't need a babysitter to be effective.

    and when you Play wvw you also see a lot of power mirages since you can use way more effects to massively increase your Endurance gain for more dodges and ez disengage if your Opponent dodges properly.

    This isn't WvW. Nor is this the subsection for it..endurance gain like the ones available for WvW don't exist or have been nerfed. Take that complaint to the other relevant section as it's totally irrelevant here

    Pure and simple mesmer have way too much defense to have that much damage potential. Just like another roamer, d/p thief, they should have their damage neutered. I don't see how this would be a problem.

    Give me pre-nerf portal back then.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UfoCoffee.2084 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    I wouldn't mind their condi application if you could fight back, but it's nearly impossible to hit or catch them. If they want to run they just sword ambush or blink away or stealth etc You're seeeing more and more boonbeasts as they are the only class who has a chance versus them 1v1 if they're capping a node. Also even when i dodge their initial burst i still get some condis through my evade?

    D/P DD thief was nerfed to the ground as they had so many ways to escape and mobility so Anet said they shouldn't have damage too, yet Mirage is exactly the same and still has crazy damage? I don't get it.

    Interesting note.
    You complain about condi mes. Yet think the defenses. Which power mes also has, is the issue?
    Why don't we see complaints about power mes? Because you have a chance to actively fight them.
    So logically. If condi mes is the problem, then you need to tone down condi application. The reason why condi is still a problem. Is because of people like you.
    Asking for changes around the core problem. Like the time people cried about torch. Instead of asking for things like duration reduction on condition applications of clones using IH. Or stack and duration reductions from shatters. Lowering the condi output of scepter and axe.
    You know, things that are actually meaningful instead of the things you're complaining about.
    If you aren't going to attempt to root out the issue then you could have added your post to the other cry thread. Since it didn't even have an impactful suggestion to the build that's broken

    nah, People are constantly complaining About Mirage defense (power and condi) because it allows you to be immune to everything while one shotting your enemy. even after the Opponent lands his cc on you you just press dodge and can instant one shot him. there is no counterplay, Nothing can punish a Mirage (power or condi) for playing a bad move.

    That's objectively false. Power has plenty of counters, most meta. Just because you on your necro build can't deal with them doesn't mean all of a sudden every one else can't.
    I would recommend trying the other classes that don't need a babysitter to be effective.

    and when you Play wvw you also see a lot of power mirages since you can use way more effects to massively increase your Endurance gain for more dodges and ez disengage if your Opponent dodges properly.

    This isn't WvW. Nor is this the subsection for it..endurance gain like the ones available for WvW don't exist or have been nerfed. Take that complaint to the other relevant section as it's totally irrelevant here

    Pure and simple mesmer have way too much defense to have that much damage potential. Just like another roamer, d/p thief, they should have their damage neutered. I don't see how this would be a problem. They often have highest damage in a game. Other classes that output that kind of damage like scourge or reaper need a firebrand to babysit them or they're dead. Why should a mesmer be a one man wrecking ball with crazy survivability and damage?

    I'm guessing you're a mesmer main and so want to keep your godmode but if you play a class that's harder to play and to get results with you'll feel a lot better after beating someone or winning a game. Playing condi mesmer is just using a crutch.

    I don't play condi mesmer. In fact I have been ,since Last year, wanting nerfs in the right direction instead of people like you steering the bat far left when it needs to go straight.
    The fact you're still bringing up condi mes as your core complaint tells me you have no idea what the class does and instead want what you feel is the issue to be resolved for you. I'm simply telling you you're wrong. I want what the actual issue is to be touched on first.
    If you do nothing about the condi application you will get the same result no matter what gets nerfed. The entire year of nerfs in the wrong direction is testimony to that. You want proper nerfs or not? Cause we can repeat the entire year of 2018 and not actually fix the issue if that's what you're aiming for....

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • UfoCoffee.2084UfoCoffee.2084 Member ✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @UfoCoffee.2084 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    I wouldn't mind their condi application if you could fight back, but it's nearly impossible to hit or catch them. If they want to run they just sword ambush or blink away or stealth etc You're seeeing more and more boonbeasts as they are the only class who has a chance versus them 1v1 if they're capping a node. Also even when i dodge their initial burst i still get some condis through my evade?

    D/P DD thief was nerfed to the ground as they had so many ways to escape and mobility so Anet said they shouldn't have damage too, yet Mirage is exactly the same and still has crazy damage? I don't get it.

    Interesting note.
    You complain about condi mes. Yet think the defenses. Which power mes also has, is the issue?
    Why don't we see complaints about power mes? Because you have a chance to actively fight them.
    So logically. If condi mes is the problem, then you need to tone down condi application. The reason why condi is still a problem. Is because of people like you.
    Asking for changes around the core problem. Like the time people cried about torch. Instead of asking for things like duration reduction on condition applications of clones using IH. Or stack and duration reductions from shatters. Lowering the condi output of scepter and axe.
    You know, things that are actually meaningful instead of the things you're complaining about.
    If you aren't going to attempt to root out the issue then you could have added your post to the other cry thread. Since it didn't even have an impactful suggestion to the build that's broken

    nah, People are constantly complaining About Mirage defense (power and condi) because it allows you to be immune to everything while one shotting your enemy. even after the Opponent lands his cc on you you just press dodge and can instant one shot him. there is no counterplay, Nothing can punish a Mirage (power or condi) for playing a bad move.

    That's objectively false. Power has plenty of counters, most meta. Just because you on your necro build can't deal with them doesn't mean all of a sudden every one else can't.
    I would recommend trying the other classes that don't need a babysitter to be effective.

    and when you Play wvw you also see a lot of power mirages since you can use way more effects to massively increase your Endurance gain for more dodges and ez disengage if your Opponent dodges properly.

    This isn't WvW. Nor is this the subsection for it..endurance gain like the ones available for WvW don't exist or have been nerfed. Take that complaint to the other relevant section as it's totally irrelevant here

    Pure and simple mesmer have way too much defense to have that much damage potential. Just like another roamer, d/p thief, they should have their damage neutered. I don't see how this would be a problem. They often have highest damage in a game. Other classes that output that kind of damage like scourge or reaper need a firebrand to babysit them or they're dead. Why should a mesmer be a one man wrecking ball with crazy survivability and damage?

    I'm guessing you're a mesmer main and so want to keep your godmode but if you play a class that's harder to play and to get results with you'll feel a lot better after beating someone or winning a game. Playing condi mesmer is just using a crutch.

    I don't play condi mesmer. In fact I have been ,since Last year, wanting nerfs in the right direction instead of people like you steering the bat far left when it needs to go straight.
    The fact you're still bringing up condi mes as your core complaint tells me you have no idea what the class does and instead want what you feel is the issue to be resolved for you. I'm simply telling you you're wrong. I want what the actual issue is to be touched on first.
    If you do nothing about the condi application you will get the same result no matter what gets nerfed. The entire year of nerfs in the wrong direction is testimony to that. You want proper nerfs or not? Cause we can repeat the entire year of 2018 and not actually fix the issue if that's what you're aiming for....

    So you're telling me i'm wrong because you believe your opinions are fact? Good for you. So you're saying the majority of the community is wrong about mesmer? There's been tons of posts and polls, youtubers, streamers all saying mirage is brokenly OP. There's streamers who are way better players than you who are saying this yet you are ignoring all of this and think so much of yourself that you think your opinion is correct still. Pardon me if i don't take you seriously....

    I'm mentioning condi mesmer as it's a huge problem and it's damage is stupid considering it's survivability but mirage both power and condi are ridiculous. Condi is just worse right now.

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    I wouldn't mind their condi application if you could fight back, but it's nearly impossible to hit or catch them. If they want to run they just sword ambush or blink away or stealth etc You're seeeing more and more boonbeasts as they are the only class who has a chance versus them 1v1 if they're capping a node. Also even when i dodge their initial burst i still get some condis through my evade?

    D/P DD thief was nerfed to the ground as they had so many ways to escape and mobility so Anet said they shouldn't have damage too, yet Mirage is exactly the same and still has crazy damage? I don't get it.

    Interesting note.
    You complain about condi mes. Yet think the defenses. Which power mes also has, is the issue?
    Why don't we see complaints about power mes? Because you have a chance to actively fight them.
    So logically. If condi mes is the problem, then you need to tone down condi application. The reason why condi is still a problem. Is because of people like you.
    Asking for changes around the core problem. Like the time people cried about torch. Instead of asking for things like duration reduction on condition applications of clones using IH. Or stack and duration reductions from shatters. Lowering the condi output of scepter and axe.
    You know, things that are actually meaningful instead of the things you're complaining about.
    If you aren't going to attempt to root out the issue then you could have added your post to the other cry thread. Since it didn't even have an impactful suggestion to the build that's broken

    nah, People are constantly complaining About Mirage defense (power and condi) because it allows you to be immune to everything while one shotting your enemy. even after the Opponent lands his cc on you you just press dodge and can instant one shot him. there is no counterplay, Nothing can punish a Mirage (power or condi) for playing a bad move.

    That's objectively false. Power has plenty of counters, most meta. Just because you on your necro build can't deal with them doesn't mean all of a sudden every one else can't.
    I would recommend trying the other classes that don't need a babysitter to be effective.

    and when you Play wvw you also see a lot of power mirages since you can use way more effects to massively increase your Endurance gain for more dodges and ez disengage if your Opponent dodges properly.

    This isn't WvW. Nor is this the subsection for it..endurance gain like the ones available for WvW don't exist or have been nerfed. Take that complaint to the other relevant section as it's totally irrelevant here

    sry but anet themself put several balance dicussion in past into the pvp section even if was also for wvw. so i think i am correct in this section. if you want complain about it i suggest you to write a ticket to anet ;-).

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes! When gw2 dies and mesmer is no longer available to play :)

  • @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @UfoCoffee.2084 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    I wouldn't mind their condi application if you could fight back, but it's nearly impossible to hit or catch them. If they want to run they just sword ambush or blink away or stealth etc You're seeeing more and more boonbeasts as they are the only class who has a chance versus them 1v1 if they're capping a node. Also even when i dodge their initial burst i still get some condis through my evade?

    D/P DD thief was nerfed to the ground as they had so many ways to escape and mobility so Anet said they shouldn't have damage too, yet Mirage is exactly the same and still has crazy damage? I don't get it.

    Interesting note.
    You complain about condi mes. Yet think the defenses. Which power mes also has, is the issue?
    Why don't we see complaints about power mes? Because you have a chance to actively fight them.
    So logically. If condi mes is the problem, then you need to tone down condi application. The reason why condi is still a problem. Is because of people like you.
    Asking for changes around the core problem. Like the time people cried about torch. Instead of asking for things like duration reduction on condition applications of clones using IH. Or stack and duration reductions from shatters. Lowering the condi output of scepter and axe.
    You know, things that are actually meaningful instead of the things you're complaining about.
    If you aren't going to attempt to root out the issue then you could have added your post to the other cry thread. Since it didn't even have an impactful suggestion to the build that's broken

    nah, People are constantly complaining About Mirage defense (power and condi) because it allows you to be immune to everything while one shotting your enemy. even after the Opponent lands his cc on you you just press dodge and can instant one shot him. there is no counterplay, Nothing can punish a Mirage (power or condi) for playing a bad move.

    That's objectively false. Power has plenty of counters, most meta. Just because you on your necro build can't deal with them doesn't mean all of a sudden every one else can't.
    I would recommend trying the other classes that don't need a babysitter to be effective.

    and when you Play wvw you also see a lot of power mirages since you can use way more effects to massively increase your Endurance gain for more dodges and ez disengage if your Opponent dodges properly.

    This isn't WvW. Nor is this the subsection for it..endurance gain like the ones available for WvW don't exist or have been nerfed. Take that complaint to the other relevant section as it's totally irrelevant here

    Pure and simple mesmer have way too much defense to have that much damage potential. Just like another roamer, d/p thief, they should have their damage neutered. I don't see how this would be a problem.

    Give me pre-nerf portal back then.

    sure if mesmer gets balanced/nerfed to be a proper +1 spec like dp thief instead of a godmode sidenode duelist then you can have old portal back..

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mesmer has been nerfed so many times every patch that I wonder how it could have been released in its original state.

  • toxic.3648toxic.3648 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @toxic.3648 said:
    just gonna put this here. too good not to xD

    It's easy for someone to just describe something and then scream "WHY?!" at the top of their lungs and look like they're making an argument.

    If you want to address Condition Mirage's damaging condition spread and it's spread of soft cc cover conditions like Blind and Cripple, you need to address how over the top overpowered condition cleanses in this game are for anything not a condition mirage or scourge.

    Aside from Mirage and Scourge nothing are rocking condition damage. And Reaper is at the very least just as popular of a build for ranked as Scourge if not moderately more popular than Scourge. The reality is condition cleanses and conversion into boons are both extremely over tuned at this point. Most classes can quickly throw off 3-7+ conditions repeatedly over the course of a single fight, or have strong resistance uptime. Scourge and Mirage are the only condition classes capable of keeping up not because their condition damage is high (It's not. Scourge and Mirage are actually some of the lowest condition damage available) but because they have a wide range of conditions (Or in Scourge's case a wide range of conditions and boon corruption) that gives their conditions a chance to dodge condition cleanses entirely.

    Condition damage has completely fallen behind Power Damage in the scheme of things. To put this into perspective; Condition Berserker, Condition Firebrand, Condition Weaver, and Condition Holosmith have the higher condition pressure. Far, far beyond what Condition Mirage and Scourge are capable of. But even putting aside other weaknesses in those builds, the single biggest weakness that prevents them from ever becoming meta is the fact that when every class can effortlessly throw off 5+ conditions multiple times a fight, the bulk of their damage being tied down into one or two conditions means their effective damage output is zero.

    Arenanet really needs to look at both normalizing the spread of conditions, balancing all classes around 2-3 damaging conditions with more serious ramping power. And also heavily pulling back condition cleanses to compensate for it. Cleanses are the condition damage equivalent to protection. It's supposed to help you negate damage, but at this point unless you're a build that can shotgun 6 conditions at once your effective damage output as condi is 0.

    Anet should nerf condition cleanses by 50%+ across the board then trim Mirage's condition spread and condense it into fewer conditions. Right now power damage is absolutely over tuned compared to condition damage 7/9 classes are exclusively running power on a meta level. Mirage is mostly exclusively condi and Necro run a 50/50 split of condi and power.

    I really want to see all the condition cleanses and conversions straight up reduced by 50%-75%. I genuinely think that's needed. Mesmers should have their cover conditions trimmed and their damaging conditions condensed into fewer conditions, mostly torment and confusion for thematic reasons with maybe a bit of burning with the torch skills. I think the reason you've seen tons of power creep when it comes to conditions cleanses is because Anet is a bit too focused on the only two meta builds keeping up and is power creeping cleanses in an arm race.

    But like let's say a Burn Firebrand vs. a Core Guardian. The Firebrand has a lot of self sustain just like the core guardian, it has fairly easy application of it's condition skills. I bring up burn firebrand for a number of reasons:

    1. It's not good but it's potentially closer to being going than people realize.
    2. The best burn firebrand build has waaaaaaaay higher than condition mirage.
    3. I think we can agree that the way Burn fireband applies it's conditions is how we all want to see condition builds operate in terms of their damage. A dps firebrand deals it's damage primarily through 2 damaging conditions and it has less access to CC conditions like blind, cripple and immobilize or rather their damage skills don't automatically come equipped with those. So when you fight a dps firebrand it's damage out put is going to look like : 1 burn, 2 burn, 3 burn, 6 burn, 8 burn, 10 burn, 15 burn, 20 burns. This is the ramping effect I think we'd like to see from condition damage builds compared to Mirage and Scourge which can shot gun you with tons of conditions and cover conditions.

    And it's completely unviable. There's way, way, way too much condition cleansing just rolling around on every single meta build except meta Herald at the moment. A DPS Firebrand will never be able to hurt the Core Guardian. How could it? The Firebrand has almost entirely burning and a little bit of bleed. And that's somehow supposed to punch through this:

    2x Condition Cleanse on Heal with Lesser Smite Condition
    2x Condition Cleanse on Virtue of Resolve
    2x Condition Cleanse on Smite Condition.
    12x Condition Conversion on Contemplation of Purity
    Condition Immunity during Renewed Focus
    2x condition Cleanse on Virtue of Resolve

    Now I'm not saying that Core Guardian is OP. It's not and it fits into the meta moderately well, but it's condition cleanses are so over the top for anything not a Scourge or a Mirage and against Mirage at least it can survive for a while. And that's true of most builds that are meta now, from Holosmith, to warrior, to Boonbeast.

    Warriors:
    Healing Signet 6 seconds resistance
    12x Condition Cleanse with Signet of Stamina
    6x Condition Cleanse x 2 with Shake it Off
    Maybe running Berserker Stance still 4 seconds resistance

    Unless you're a Mirage or Scourge you aren't going to be able to punch through that with condition damage. Period.

    ye i got np with them being able to pump out conditions, but if u take a look on the forum u dont see any "nerf scourge" threads because u can actually outplay them (dont stand in circles) .. if scourge pumped out all the condi's they do now and being invul/dodging/immune to cc half the time like mirage is u would see those threads just as much as mirage. its as simple as that

    Toxicity Pengu to the rescue /o/

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @toxic.3648 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @toxic.3648 said:
    just gonna put this here. too good not to xD

    It's easy for someone to just describe something and then scream "WHY?!" at the top of their lungs and look like they're making an argument.

    If you want to address Condition Mirage's damaging condition spread and it's spread of soft cc cover conditions like Blind and Cripple, you need to address how over the top overpowered condition cleanses in this game are for anything not a condition mirage or scourge.

    Aside from Mirage and Scourge nothing are rocking condition damage. And Reaper is at the very least just as popular of a build for ranked as Scourge if not moderately more popular than Scourge. The reality is condition cleanses and conversion into boons are both extremely over tuned at this point. Most classes can quickly throw off 3-7+ conditions repeatedly over the course of a single fight, or have strong resistance uptime. Scourge and Mirage are the only condition classes capable of keeping up not because their condition damage is high (It's not. Scourge and Mirage are actually some of the lowest condition damage available) but because they have a wide range of conditions (Or in Scourge's case a wide range of conditions and boon corruption) that gives their conditions a chance to dodge condition cleanses entirely.

    Condition damage has completely fallen behind Power Damage in the scheme of things. To put this into perspective; Condition Berserker, Condition Firebrand, Condition Weaver, and Condition Holosmith have the higher condition pressure. Far, far beyond what Condition Mirage and Scourge are capable of. But even putting aside other weaknesses in those builds, the single biggest weakness that prevents them from ever becoming meta is the fact that when every class can effortlessly throw off 5+ conditions multiple times a fight, the bulk of their damage being tied down into one or two conditions means their effective damage output is zero.

    Arenanet really needs to look at both normalizing the spread of conditions, balancing all classes around 2-3 damaging conditions with more serious ramping power. And also heavily pulling back condition cleanses to compensate for it. Cleanses are the condition damage equivalent to protection. It's supposed to help you negate damage, but at this point unless you're a build that can shotgun 6 conditions at once your effective damage output as condi is 0.

    Anet should nerf condition cleanses by 50%+ across the board then trim Mirage's condition spread and condense it into fewer conditions. Right now power damage is absolutely over tuned compared to condition damage 7/9 classes are exclusively running power on a meta level. Mirage is mostly exclusively condi and Necro run a 50/50 split of condi and power.

    I really want to see all the condition cleanses and conversions straight up reduced by 50%-75%. I genuinely think that's needed. Mesmers should have their cover conditions trimmed and their damaging conditions condensed into fewer conditions, mostly torment and confusion for thematic reasons with maybe a bit of burning with the torch skills. I think the reason you've seen tons of power creep when it comes to conditions cleanses is because Anet is a bit too focused on the only two meta builds keeping up and is power creeping cleanses in an arm race.

    But like let's say a Burn Firebrand vs. a Core Guardian. The Firebrand has a lot of self sustain just like the core guardian, it has fairly easy application of it's condition skills. I bring up burn firebrand for a number of reasons:

    1. It's not good but it's potentially closer to being going than people realize.
    2. The best burn firebrand build has waaaaaaaay higher than condition mirage.
    3. I think we can agree that the way Burn fireband applies it's conditions is how we all want to see condition builds operate in terms of their damage. A dps firebrand deals it's damage primarily through 2 damaging conditions and it has less access to CC conditions like blind, cripple and immobilize or rather their damage skills don't automatically come equipped with those. So when you fight a dps firebrand it's damage out put is going to look like : 1 burn, 2 burn, 3 burn, 6 burn, 8 burn, 10 burn, 15 burn, 20 burns. This is the ramping effect I think we'd like to see from condition damage builds compared to Mirage and Scourge which can shot gun you with tons of conditions and cover conditions.

    And it's completely unviable. There's way, way, way too much condition cleansing just rolling around on every single meta build except meta Herald at the moment. A DPS Firebrand will never be able to hurt the Core Guardian. How could it? The Firebrand has almost entirely burning and a little bit of bleed. And that's somehow supposed to punch through this:

    2x Condition Cleanse on Heal with Lesser Smite Condition
    2x Condition Cleanse on Virtue of Resolve
    2x Condition Cleanse on Smite Condition.
    12x Condition Conversion on Contemplation of Purity
    Condition Immunity during Renewed Focus
    2x condition Cleanse on Virtue of Resolve

    Now I'm not saying that Core Guardian is OP. It's not and it fits into the meta moderately well, but it's condition cleanses are so over the top for anything not a Scourge or a Mirage and against Mirage at least it can survive for a while. And that's true of most builds that are meta now, from Holosmith, to warrior, to Boonbeast.

    Warriors:
    Healing Signet 6 seconds resistance
    12x Condition Cleanse with Signet of Stamina
    6x Condition Cleanse x 2 with Shake it Off
    Maybe running Berserker Stance still 4 seconds resistance

    Unless you're a Mirage or Scourge you aren't going to be able to punch through that with condition damage. Period.

    ye i got np with them being able to pump out conditions, but if u take a look on the forum u dont see any "nerf scourge" threads because u can actually outplay them (dont stand in circles) .. if scourge pumped out all the condi's they do now and being invul/dodging/immune to cc half the time like mirage is u would see those threads just as much as mirage. its as simple as that

    It wasn't too long ago when scourge had threads every. single. day. about how OP they were, about how they were braindead easy, ruining PvP, and rendered melee as a play style completely unviable. Scourge did get a few minor nerfs, but the shift in view wasn't a result of scourge having a few nerfs so much as reaper being buffed to being at least just as desirable if not more in solo queue and support Firebrand being less attractive for ranked that quieted people's views about scourges.

    And people still complain about blood rezing.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, something is busted on it atm. I'm not exactly sure what happened, but it happened at the end of s14 and is now present in off season. I'm working on some footage of top 100 and top 25 guys 1v1ing against Condi Mirages to showcase some points of interest concerning this discussion. I'll edit/post it when I get some time.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @toxic.3648 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @toxic.3648 said:
    just gonna put this here. too good not to xD

    It's easy for someone to just describe something and then scream "WHY?!" at the top of their lungs and look like they're making an argument.

    If you want to address Condition Mirage's damaging condition spread and it's spread of soft cc cover conditions like Blind and Cripple, you need to address how over the top overpowered condition cleanses in this game are for anything not a condition mirage or scourge.

    Aside from Mirage and Scourge nothing are rocking condition damage. And Reaper is at the very least just as popular of a build for ranked as Scourge if not moderately more popular than Scourge. The reality is condition cleanses and conversion into boons are both extremely over tuned at this point. Most classes can quickly throw off 3-7+ conditions repeatedly over the course of a single fight, or have strong resistance uptime. Scourge and Mirage are the only condition classes capable of keeping up not because their condition damage is high (It's not. Scourge and Mirage are actually some of the lowest condition damage available) but because they have a wide range of conditions (Or in Scourge's case a wide range of conditions and boon corruption) that gives their conditions a chance to dodge condition cleanses entirely.

    Condition damage has completely fallen behind Power Damage in the scheme of things. To put this into perspective; Condition Berserker, Condition Firebrand, Condition Weaver, and Condition Holosmith have the higher condition pressure. Far, far beyond what Condition Mirage and Scourge are capable of. But even putting aside other weaknesses in those builds, the single biggest weakness that prevents them from ever becoming meta is the fact that when every class can effortlessly throw off 5+ conditions multiple times a fight, the bulk of their damage being tied down into one or two conditions means their effective damage output is zero.

    Arenanet really needs to look at both normalizing the spread of conditions, balancing all classes around 2-3 damaging conditions with more serious ramping power. And also heavily pulling back condition cleanses to compensate for it. Cleanses are the condition damage equivalent to protection. It's supposed to help you negate damage, but at this point unless you're a build that can shotgun 6 conditions at once your effective damage output as condi is 0.

    Anet should nerf condition cleanses by 50%+ across the board then trim Mirage's condition spread and condense it into fewer conditions. Right now power damage is absolutely over tuned compared to condition damage 7/9 classes are exclusively running power on a meta level. Mirage is mostly exclusively condi and Necro run a 50/50 split of condi and power.

    I really want to see all the condition cleanses and conversions straight up reduced by 50%-75%. I genuinely think that's needed. Mesmers should have their cover conditions trimmed and their damaging conditions condensed into fewer conditions, mostly torment and confusion for thematic reasons with maybe a bit of burning with the torch skills. I think the reason you've seen tons of power creep when it comes to conditions cleanses is because Anet is a bit too focused on the only two meta builds keeping up and is power creeping cleanses in an arm race.

    But like let's say a Burn Firebrand vs. a Core Guardian. The Firebrand has a lot of self sustain just like the core guardian, it has fairly easy application of it's condition skills. I bring up burn firebrand for a number of reasons:

    1. It's not good but it's potentially closer to being going than people realize.
    2. The best burn firebrand build has waaaaaaaay higher than condition mirage.
    3. I think we can agree that the way Burn fireband applies it's conditions is how we all want to see condition builds operate in terms of their damage. A dps firebrand deals it's damage primarily through 2 damaging conditions and it has less access to CC conditions like blind, cripple and immobilize or rather their damage skills don't automatically come equipped with those. So when you fight a dps firebrand it's damage out put is going to look like : 1 burn, 2 burn, 3 burn, 6 burn, 8 burn, 10 burn, 15 burn, 20 burns. This is the ramping effect I think we'd like to see from condition damage builds compared to Mirage and Scourge which can shot gun you with tons of conditions and cover conditions.

    And it's completely unviable. There's way, way, way too much condition cleansing just rolling around on every single meta build except meta Herald at the moment. A DPS Firebrand will never be able to hurt the Core Guardian. How could it? The Firebrand has almost entirely burning and a little bit of bleed. And that's somehow supposed to punch through this:

    2x Condition Cleanse on Heal with Lesser Smite Condition
    2x Condition Cleanse on Virtue of Resolve
    2x Condition Cleanse on Smite Condition.
    12x Condition Conversion on Contemplation of Purity
    Condition Immunity during Renewed Focus
    2x condition Cleanse on Virtue of Resolve

    Now I'm not saying that Core Guardian is OP. It's not and it fits into the meta moderately well, but it's condition cleanses are so over the top for anything not a Scourge or a Mirage and against Mirage at least it can survive for a while. And that's true of most builds that are meta now, from Holosmith, to warrior, to Boonbeast.

    Warriors:
    Healing Signet 6 seconds resistance
    12x Condition Cleanse with Signet of Stamina
    6x Condition Cleanse x 2 with Shake it Off
    Maybe running Berserker Stance still 4 seconds resistance

    Unless you're a Mirage or Scourge you aren't going to be able to punch through that with condition damage. Period.

    ye i got np with them being able to pump out conditions, but if u take a look on the forum u dont see any "nerf scourge" threads because u can actually outplay them (dont stand in circles) .. if scourge pumped out all the condi's they do now and being invul/dodging/immune to cc half the time like mirage is u would see those threads just as much as mirage. its as simple as that

    It wasn't too long ago when scourge had threads every. single. day. about how OP they were, about how they were braindead easy, ruining PvP, and rendered melee as a play style completely unviable. Scourge did get a few minor nerfs, but the shift in view wasn't a result of scourge having a few nerfs so much as reaper being buffed to being at least just as desirable if not more in solo queue and support Firebrand being less attractive for ranked that quieted people's views about scourges.

    And people still complain about blood rezing.

    okay, what a "minor" nerf is or not is very subjective, but cd increase by 200% on the class mechnaic of scourge calling a minor nerf sounds like every single nerf in this game since 2012 was just a "minor" nerf. reducing the Overall dmg Output of condi scourges by 40% just by killing dhuumfire a minor nerf...okay but i never have seen before a complete class get reduced its OVERALL dmg output by 40%.

    i already can see the 1000 of mesmer and warrior and holo cry threads if their classes got Overall dmg reduction by 40% or they just increase full counter base cd by 200 % to 36 sec or forged form cooldown to 15 sec. calling that a "minor" nerf is somewhat...funny

    Fair. The Sand Savant nerf was not minor.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Mesmer has been nerfed so many times every patch that I wonder how it could have been released in its original state.

    If you want to talk about Mesmer being nerfed every single patch you should talk to thief mains.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @xZombieTaco.5809 said:

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Mesmer has been nerfed so many times every patch that I wonder how it could have been released in its original state.

    If you want to talk about Mesmer being nerfed every single patch you should talk to thief mains.

    Oh i meant mirage in fact, but true enough for thieves.

  • UfoCoffee.2084UfoCoffee.2084 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    The only reason mirage didn't get a "proper nerf" is the amount of clueless people wanting to get mirage nerf on the wrong things.
    Mirage mains said over and over again what needs to change but ANet chooses to cater to clueless qq'ers instead hence the result you see, wrong nerfs everywhere.
    So yeah, you're actually part of the problem, not the solution.

    So you think mirage mechanics and damage is balanced right now?

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2019

    @UfoCoffee.2084 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    The only reason mirage didn't get a "proper nerf" is the amount of clueless people wanting to get mirage nerf on the wrong things.
    Mirage mains said over and over again what needs to change but ANet chooses to cater to clueless qq'ers instead hence the result you see, wrong nerfs everywhere.
    So yeah, you're actually part of the problem, not the solution.

    So you think mirage mechanics and damage is balanced right now?

    Depends, are they over represented in the top 100-250 bracket of players? If so, then yes. They are over-performing.

    If no, it's an issue of learn to play.

    Thief and mesmer are the 2 classes with the most gimmicky "I can kill scrubs" mechanics in the game. Unfortunately balancing around people's ineptitude to get good is never a solid idea for good balance.

    That said, there are way more deadlier builds than mirage both for wvw roaming as well as spvp. Most of them are just less frustrating to lose against since you assume you had a chance to fight back (which you never had). That Holo that just steamrolled you, trust me, if he was good, you had just as little a chance of winning as against that mirage.

  • Apolo.5942Apolo.5942 Member ✭✭✭

    Every time this discussion comes up, its the same thing, people that does not play Mesmer complain about Mesmer, people that play Mesmer make ltp excuses.

    Some times believe it or not, is NOT the rest of the world that it is wrong...

    Conditions need to be normalized:
    1- SINGLE PLAYER conditions stack on DURATION.
    2- MULTIPLE PLAYERS conditions stack on INTENSITY.
    3- REBALANCE condition duration, damage and application.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2019

    @Apolo.5942 said:
    Every time this discussion comes up, its the same thing, people that does not play Mesmer complain about Mesmer, people that play Mesmer make ltp excuses.

    Some times believe it or not, is NOT the rest of the world that it is wrong...

    Then there's players like me who set up for a huge amount of condition removal and brush it off like it's nothing but still complain Holo has too much CC...
    Mesmer isn't my main but I have 4 of them, played it enough to know how to counter a bit better.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    Apologies if I come off as dry or blunt.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The biggest problem with Mesmer as a whole is still that the phantasm rework effectively removed the difficulty in managing clones but then Mesmers didn't receive any utility nerfs in exchange. Mesmers have always had overloaded utility and effects on their skills, which was balanced out by the fact that they required effective illusion management and using phantasms used to mean potentially holding off on a shatter. The rework made it so the balance between utility and clone management no longer really exists.

    The result is that Mesmers design is now just a complete mess. I don't think the balance team really knows what they want to do with the class. I know I sound like a broken record since I am the one who started the thread on reverting the phantasm rework, but as time goes by there just seems to be more and more evidence piling up that it really was a terrible change. It has resulted in Mesmers going from one of the highest skill-cap classes in the game into a complete mish-mash of garbage.

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    you need to address how over the top overpowered condition cleanses in this game are for anything not a condition mirage or scourge.
    Aside from Mirage and Scourge nothing are rocking condition damage

    It's worth pointing out that the bulk of Necro and by extension Scourge's condi spread/application and cover condis are from corrupting boons. And while this boonhate is also what makes and for a long time has made Necro so strong in teamfights, it is more inconsistent as a damage tool. The strength of Necro really has more to do with boon removal than sheer condi damage output. You could probably remove almost all condi damage from Scourge and it would likely still be used for the boonhate in teamfights, maybe as a power build, but it would still be there.

  • Simonoly.4352Simonoly.4352 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2019

    @toxic.3648 said:
    just gonna put this here. too good not to xD

    Vid snip

    I couldn't watch any further after his initial rant about sword auto-attack. I just...come on! Of all the sword auto-attacks in the game, it has the longest chain completion. It's essentially exactly the same as Revenant sword auto attack only it does less damage and applies less vulnerability on the first two attacks, has a different functionality on the final attack (but still comparable damage) but also takes nearly half a second more to complete the full chain.

    Anyone who has ever truly player Mesmer will know that the auto-attack is rarely actually used for anything other than landing one swipe to finish someone off. I don't think I ever get to the end of the full chain when I'm playing my Mesmer. It's not like Revenant or Thief - Mesmer sword auto-attack is not a fundamental damage source and is largely not used.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ferbz.6987 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    You can say Mirages are still OP, but you can't say that haven't gotten their fair share of nerfing literally every single patch across all aspects of the specialization since the phantasm rework. The only exception was scepter getting buffed and the underwater rework. Do they deserve more right now? Yeah. And more are certainly coming just like they've come every patch.

    Game Update Notes: December 11, 2018

    • Axes of Symmetry: The physical damage of this skill has been split between game modes and reduced by about 30% in PvP only.
    • Lingering Thoughts: The ammunition-recharge time of this skill has been split between game modes and has been increased from 8 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP only.
    • Tides of Time: Fixed a bug in which this skill could strike foes multiple times per wave.
    • Chaos Vortex: The might granted by this skill has been changed from 3 stacks for 8 seconds to 2 stacks for 15 seconds.
    • Jaunt: The number of charges this skill can hold has been split between game modes and reduced from 3 charges to 2 charges in PvP and WvW.
    • Signet of Humility: The defiance-bar damage performed by this skill has been reduced from 10 seconds to 6 seconds to match the duration of the skill's transformation.
    • Signet of Inspiration: The active effect of this signet no longer shares the mesmer's boons with allies. Instead, it now extends the duration of all allies' current boons by 5 seconds.
    • Signet of Midnight: This signet's passive effect now grants 180 expertise at level 80 instead of a flat condition duration in order to be consistent with other signet effects.
    • Mimic: This skill's recharge time has been reduced from 75 seconds to 40 seconds and is now increased by the recharge time of the utility skill that it affects. The recharge time of this skill cannot be reset by other mesmer skills.
    • Portal Entre: The duration of time the mesmer has to place Portal Exeunt has been split between games modes. The duration has been reduced from 60 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW, but remains unchanged in PvE.
    • Well of Action: The duration of quickness that the final pulse of this skill applies has been increased from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.
    • Well of Recall: The duration of alacrity that the final pulse of this skill applies has been increased from 4 seconds to 5 seconds. Its casting time has been reduced from 1 second to 0.75 seconds.
    • Continuum Split: Fixed a bug in which the rift object that is created by this skill could fail to be destroyed when the the "resign" command (/resign, /gg, /surrender, /forfeit/, /qq, /ff) was used.
    • Bountiful Disillusionment: This trait now only applies boons to the mesmer.
    • Danger Time: This trait's effect now applies to illusions.
    • Lost Time: This trait now delivers its slowing strike when the mesmer disables their target instead of after the mesmer has built charges. Its base strike damage has been reduced by 50%, but its critical-hit damage has been increased by 100%.
    • Mirror of Anguish: This trait has been renamed Auspicious Anguish. It now causes the skill Distortion to instantly recharge when the mesmer is affected by a control effect. It also causes the distortion effect to grant a random boon when it ends. The cooldown of this trait is 50 seconds.
    • Power Block: The damage of this skill has been increased by 20% so that it now matches its tooltip. This trait can no longer critically hit foes.

    Game Update Notes: October 2, 2018

    • Fixed a bug in which certain skills that break enemy targeting would stop the mesmer's autoattack.
    • Continuum Shift: Fixed an API profession classification on this skill.
    • Signet of Inspiration: Normalized the duration of boons applied by this skill to 3 seconds. Might and swiftness are exceptions to this rule and remain at durations of 20 seconds and 5 seconds respectively.
    • Illusionary Inspiration: This trait now causes mesmers to heal all nearby allies whenever they summon an illusion. Competitive-mode healing effectiveness is 50% of PvE.
    • Confounding Suggestions: This trait no longer converts dazes into stuns. It now increases daze duration by 50% and stun duration by 25%. It is no longer split between game modes.
    • Well of Recall: Reduced the recharge time from 35 seconds to 30 seconds. Reduced the alacrity duration from 5 seconds to 4 seconds.
    • Temporal Enchanter: This trait has been removed from the game.
    • Blurred Inscriptions: This trait has been moved to the Inspiration specialization at the Grandmaster tier to replace Temporal Enchanter. Its functionality has been updated. It now grants distortion when using signets and gives all signets improved functionality when active:
    • Signet of the Ether: Grants increased healing.
    • Signet of Domination: Strips 5 boons.
    • Signet of Illusions: Summons 1 clone.
    • Signet of Inspiration: Hits 10 targets instead of 5 targets.
    • Signet of Midnight: Cures 5 conditions from the player.
    • Signet of Humility: Applies 10 stacks of vulnerability.
    • Egotism: This is a new Master tier Domination trait that replaces the slot left open by Blurred Inscriptions. It increases outgoing damage by 10% against foes with lower health than the mesmer. This trait is now split between modes and increases damage by 5% in PvP and WvW.
    • Elusive Mind: The exhaustion duration of this trait is now split between game modes and has a 6-second duration in PvP and WvW.

    Game Update Notes: August 28, 2018

    • Illusionary Counter: This skill now summons two clones instead of one if the mesmer successfully blocks a strike.
    • Counterspell: In addition to its previous effects, mesmers will summon a clone to attack the first enemy struck by this skill.
    • Confusing Images: The animation length of this skill has been increased from 2 seconds to 2.25 seconds. The damage has been increased by 25% per strike, and the number of strikes has been increased from 6 to 7.
    • Null Field: This skill has received a new underwater effect for greater visibility.
    • Chaotic Transference: Reduced the condition damage based on the mesmer's toughness from 10% to 7%. This trait now also grants 13% of the mesmer's concentration as expertise.
    • Critical Infusion: The vigor duration of this trait has been reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW.
    • Nomad's Endurance: The vigor duration of this trait has been reduced from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP and WvW.

    Game Update Notes: July 10, 2018

    • Blurred Frenzy: The animation time of this skill has been reduced from approximately 1.75 seconds to 1 second while retaining all previous attacks. Damage of this skill has been reduced by 17% in PvP and WvW, with PvE being reduced by 36%. The baseline recharge time has been reduced from 12 seconds to 10 seconds.
    • The Prestige: Burning duration has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds.
    • Phantasmal Mage: The burning duration of the initial attack has been modified from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 6 seconds. The attack's burning has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds.
    • Maim the Disillusioned: Torment duration has been split between game modes and will now deliver 4 seconds of torment in PvP and WvW while continuing to deal 6 seconds of torment in PvE.
    • Imaginary Axes: Inflicted torment duration has been reduced from 5 seconds to 4 seconds.
    • Axes of Symmetry: Inflicted confusion duration has been reduced from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvE.
    • Jaunt: The ammunition recharge time of this skill has now been split and will use a 30-second cooldown in PvP and WvW while maintaining a 20-second cooldown in PvE.
    • Signet of Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this skill from 10 seconds to 2 seconds.
    • Illusionary Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 10 seconds to 2 seconds.
    • Inspiring Distortion: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 5 seconds to 2 seconds.
    • Nomad's Endurance: Fixed a bug that could cause the bonus condition damage from this trait to be applied to characters other than the mesmer.
    • Chaotic Persistence: The boon and condition duration bonus has been decreased from 3% to 2% per boon on the mesmer.

    Game Update Notes: May 22, 2018

    • Bountiful Disillusionment: The stability duration for this trait has been reduced from 3 seconds to 1 second in PvP and WvW.
    • Illusionary Defense: The damage reduction per stack this trait applies is now split between game modes and has been reduced from -5% per stack to -2% in PvP and WvW.
    • Phantasmal Defender: The tooltip for this skill now shows the correct damage the skill inflicts in PvE. Its damage has been reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.
    • Phantasmal Disenchanter: The damage of this skill has been reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.
    • Phantasmal Warlock: The damage of this skill has been reduced by 50% in PvP and WvW.
    • Echo of Memory: Reduced the damage inflicted by the illusionary avenger by 50%.

    Game Update Notes: May 8, 2018

    • Siren's Call: Increased the projectile speed by 50%.
    • Blinding Tide: This skill now inflicts vulnerability in an area around the player's target in addition to blindness. Its cooldown has been reduced from 12 seconds to 8 seconds.
    • Spinning Revenge: This skill has been reworked and renamed Imminent Voyage. It now grants allies chaos armor if they are within a 600 radius, and it creates a clone at the player's position before they retreat.
    • Illusion of Drowning: The damage inflicted by this skill has been increased by 33% and now affects up to 5 enemies in an area around the player's initial target. Fixed a bug that prevented the anchor effect from disappearing when the target broke out of stun.
    • Feigned Surge: Increased the damage of this skill by 200% and clarified the text in its tooltips. The mesmer now charges at their targeted enemy, striking up to 5 enemies along the way before summoning a clone upon reaching the target.
    • Slipstream: This skill has been reworked. Allies who pass through its area of effect gain 8 seconds of superspeed, and enemies are immobilized for 3 seconds. Its area of effect has been significantly increased.
    • Vortex: Clarified the tooltips for this skill and increased its damage by 33%.
    • Null Field: This skill can now be used underwater, creating its field at the player's location.
    • Imaginary Axes: The torment duration of this skill is no longer split between game modes and will now use the higher 5-second duration in all modes.
    • Axes of Symmetry: This skill has regained its confusion-inflicting function. Confusion remains split between game modes and will inflict 6 stacks for 3 seconds in PvP and WvW, and 3 stacks for 8 seconds in PvE, with each clone inflicting one stack of the condition.
    • Signet of Ether: The cooldown of this skill is no longer split between game modes and will now use the lower 30-second cooldown in all modes.
    • Illusion of Life: The cooldown of this skill is no longer split between game modes and will now use the lower 75-second cooldown in all modes.
    • Continuum Shift: The cooldown of this skill is no longer split between game modes and will now use the higher 105-second cooldown in all modes.
    • Compounding Power: The damage bonus per stack of this effect is no longer split between game modes and will now use the lower 2% damage bonus per stack in all modes.
    • Chronophantasma: Resummoned phantasms now do 50% less damage in PvP and WvW.

    Game Update Notes: April 24, 2018

    • Signet of the Ether: This skill now reduces the recharge of phantasm skills by 50% rather than 100% in PvP and WvW.

    Game Update Notes: March 27, 2018

    • Seize the Moment: Fixed the tooltip for this trait that incorrectly referenced illusions instead of clones.
    • Signet of Illusions: Fixed a text error for the passive effect that referenced this skill's old behavior.
    • Chaotic Dampening: Fixed a bug in which this trait did not properly reduce the recharge time of trident skills.
    • Distortion: Updated the tooltip description of this effect to better reflect its functionality.
    • Imagined Burden: Fixed a bug that prevented cripple tooltips from appearing on the associated skills.
    • Shatter Storm: Fixed a bug that prevented the reduced recharge from Master of Misdirection from properly interacting with this trait.
    • Tides of Time: Fixed a bug that caused the recharge refund to fail if the chronomancer catches a wave from another chronomancer.
    • Illusionary Riposte: Fixed a bug that prevented Counter Blade from activating under certain circumstances. Increased the cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW.
    • Chaos Vortex: Fixed a bug that caused the projectile fired by this skill to have inconsistent interactions with reflection skills.
    • Phantasmal Swordsman: Fixed a bug that prevented this skill from summoning a phantasm if the mesmer jumped while casting it.
    • Blinding Dissipation: Fixed a bug that caused the confusion skill fact from Ineptitude to display incorrectly on this trait.
    • Illusion of Life: Reduced the cooldown from 120 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP and WvW.
    • Phantasmal Disenchanter: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW.
    • Jaunt: Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW.
    • Illusionary Swordsman: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased might from 8 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP and WvW.
    • Mirror Blade: Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.
    • Signet of the Ether: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW.
    • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW.
    • Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 3 seconds of exhaustion when breaking a stun.
    • Compounding Power: Reduced the outgoing damage per stack from 3% to 2% in PvP and WvW.
    • Phantasmal Force: Reduced the might granted from 3 stacks to 2 stacks in PvP and WvW.
    • Mirror of Anguish: Increased cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only.
    • Mental Anguish: Reduced bonus damage from 15% to 10% in PvP and from 30% to 20% in WvW.
    • Confounding Suggestions: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW.
    • Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced stability duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased might from 5 stacks to 3 stacks in PvP and WvW.

    Yep, that tells how extremely oppressive they have been and still are in all game modes, even after receiving minor adjustments.

    "Minor adjustments"

    Portal Smiter's Booned, Illusionary Defense dropped by 66%, Elusive Mind has 6 seconds of exhaustion, Confounding Suggestions no longer stuns, Jaunt repeatedly nerfed in every aspect, Bountiful Disillusionment, Critical Infusion and Nomad's Endurance, Torch 4+5 heavily nerfed in damage.

    That ain't no "minor adjustments."

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:
    You complain about condi mes. Yet think the defenses. Which power mes also has, is the issue?
    Why don't we see complaints about power mes? Because you have a chance to actively fight them.

    Power mesmer is also a minor issue btw. It just doesn't stand out from the rest of overtuned power specs/builds currently. It's also far less common.

    I don't quite know what the situation is currently since I haven't been playing necro much recently but I remember a time(October-ish?) when a Power Shatter mesmer 100-0'd my Reaper in about 2 seconds through both RS+Lesser Spectral Armor, and I was on Paladin Amulet as well btw. There was another opposing player involved in that fight but it was a duelist type, so mainly the damage came from the mesmer.
    That said, if you catch a Power Shatter Mirage with their pants down, they are really squishy. That kinda balances out the spec. I'd like the damage to be tuned down a bit but at the same time as every other class like core radiant guard, sic em soulbeast and power shiro rev.

    People just like to complain about the condi variant because it's annoying to deal with Torment/Confusion on most classes. Personally, I like where condi mirage is at, and if you know me, you know that mesmer is my least played class, Mirage even more so. I prefer Chrono and I rarely play mesmer if chrono doesn't have a playable build. It's mainly there to be my JP safe mode.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People complain about condi mirage because of the visual clutter it makes on scree and most of the times you target a clone and waste essential skills on clones and get frustrated by that.
    But when a boonbeast regen 4% health/sec without even clicking the healing skill that's fine... because at least you landed some skill on him...
    Or when an holo jumps on you and with a CC chain drop you from 100% to downed state in 3-4 seconds, that's all fine...
    Against boonbeast and holos you have the illusion it was a fair fight just because you can target them easy, and you see how your skills hit the target, but the reality you didn't have any chance as well... maybe even less than condi mirage.

    When i roam in wvw before a condi mirage is able to kill me can pass even 5 minutes, a good holo or boonbeast no matter how i tryhard they can finish the fight in 10-15 seconds and down me.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felincyriac.5981 said:
    scourge got some "minor" nerfs, lmao at these mesemer mains.
    Why does condi mesmer, also have a large amount of power damage application? So you have burst condi damage whilst also doing power damage.
    They need to actually nerf axe 3, and torch. Just like how they nerfed scourge torch.

    If you're referring to the jawgeous video someone posted, he's running carrion and adventure, theres where power come from.
    Sword is a power weapon.
    Axe power is low.
    The only weapon that is broken in that regard is scepter.

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