D/D weaver - Prepare to be refuted you naysayers — Guild Wars 2 Forums

D/D weaver - Prepare to be refuted you naysayers

kornfanxxx.9143kornfanxxx.9143 Member ✭✭✭
edited January 22, 2019 in Elementalist

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYncMA94i14CG5CM5iFTArYKWADBEVgAQD4eM3mfzA-j1RGABst/QCnAgHV/hO9AA8AAyTJYUK/CAgAcz2MAu5Nv5Nv5NrNv5Nv5Nv5Nv5NvZpA2amG-w

Hi all, Name's Jenzi, I'm an officer in the WvW/Spvp guild [love]. I'm a Weaver main & i've mained D/D weaver since a month after PoF dropped, I've also mained elementalist since Gw2's launch. Some of you who frequent twitch may have seen me stream some several months ago before my internet situation became cruddy. :anguished: This is a long post so prepare your eyes for this giant wall of text.

Alot of people here, & in game have always disliked the dagger main-hand weapon with weaver due to swords more obvious defensive & easily accessible abilities located on it's 2 skill as opposed to dagger. Dagger is a complicated weapon, and it's potential is not easily seen nor realized. So I decided to make this forum post to enlighten the community as to why D/D weaver is a completely viable choice to play with.

Unravel, its a skill everyone seems to like to pick on, yet its my single most favorite ele utility skill. For sword users, yeah unravel seems like a moot utility, for dagger users - it's your bread & butter. Unravel does a lot of things,

  • (traited) it provides stability, then either 5 might/fury/protection/vigor depending on your main-hand attunement.
  • It brings your offhand weapon skills to your main-hand, and allows you to access your double attuned 3 skill.
  • it resets the global ICD of 3.5 seconds (4 seconds un-traited) of all attunements to allow instant attunement swaps.
  • (Traited) It reacts with the grand master trait Elements of rage, granting an 8 second 10% damage buff.

D/D weaver is FAST & COMPLICATED. There's a lot going on while your fighting, if your unfamiliar with the muscle memory of dagger's dual skill effects & double attuned effects this build will have a large learning curve, But there's a lot of potential for damage with this build. in my humble opinion it does far more damage than a similar sword build. Damage with dagger is far easier to achieve due to its large amount of damaging movement skills (three of which have evade frames), up to 80~% crit chance, (see elements of rage & superior elements traits) passive might generation that easily provides 25 might, & the builds ability to instantly follow up one big burst with another due to unravel bypassing cool downs.

(fun hint burning speed & plasma burst hit for the same amount of damage making for a great burst combo for over 10k+ damage sometimes)

This build does have a lot of blast finishers, which before the big sigil & rune update i did use to blast ring of fire & burning speed to provide my might. Now the build does the might stacking for me. Might is extremely important to any celestial equipped build, but even more so for elementalists. I'll put it this way to make it easy to understand:

If a warrior using a hammer has 25 might he's benefiting from a bonus of 750 power, while he is indeed getting 750 condition damage as well, he gets no benefit from it. When an elementalist in celestial gear has 25 might, he's getting again 750 power & condition damage, but his weapon sets are hybrid focused, and are benefiting from both benefits might provides.
so it's kinda like your gaining a bonus of 1500 stat points (not to mention celestial's inherent stat point advantage vs min max builds) vs 750 for a non hybrid build in most cases.

It also has access to more pbAOE CC on its weapon set than most any other builds in the game, making setting up bursts easy and consistent, you'll have plenty of chances.

So lets move on to the build I linked:

Gear/Weapons/infusions : Celestial gear is an obvious pick here due to its benefit to elementalists, & its inherent advantage of having an insane amount more of total stat point allotment than any 3 stat or stat piece of gear. (I also use full power infusions, 18 of them = +90 extra power, every little bit counts!)

rune & sigil choices: Superior Rune of the Aristocracy runes are a clever pick in my book to use, since the sigil & rune update, it now grants 5 stacks of might for 4 seconds on weakness application on a 1 second ICD. for our specific purposes, this is extremely potent. weakness is a common condition we apply in our fights. If you don't have access to this rune, Pack runes work pretty well too. Battle & strength sigils both got buffs recently as well, with battle granting 5 might vs 2, & strength having a 100% chance to provide might on crit vs its old 60% chance on crit.

Traits, if you look at my trait picks, you can tell its pretty offensively biased vs a sword users build. I'll guarantee you'll feel the difference too. high fury access, Elements of rage, & superior elements bring your crit chance up there with guys running full berserkers or marauders gear. I picked up Bolstered elements, obvious pick since we're using 4 different stances including the elite, 3 of which all have 2 ammo to them. so you'll have a steady flow of stability whenever you need it. the rest is pretty standard stuff.

condition cleansing: it's obvious the build has less condition cleanse access than a sword weavers with woven stride, but by taking the cleansing wave trait, attuning to water will clear two conditions, katabolic winds will clear another, transmute frost from frost aura will cleanse a fourth, evasive arcania a fifth, then dagger 5 water cleansing wave two more, for a total of 7 conditions cleansed within a short time period until you have cool downs, and in emergencies you can always hit unravel to double attune away from water & reset your global ICD, then swap right into water again for quicker cleansing.

boons: D/D has a unique leg up on sword builds due to its ability to gain fury regularly. The build capitalizes on this by taking superior elements & elements of rage to provide a dangerous amount of crit chance. You also have the ability to get on demand protection/vigor/(5) might by hitting unravel. Beyond that the build has more stability uptime than a similar sword build as well as more fire field access & the most blast finishers ele's ever seen for aoe might.

(once you get good at the muscle memory of the build you can actually use unravel to fit every single blast finisher in the weapon set inside of ring of fire and there's six blast finishers available including evasive arcania, can give your group upwards of 20+ might in less than 4 seconds)

Mobility: alot of people dislike ditching lightning flash. but guess what! anet hooked us up! Magnetic leap got a buff which allows you to literally leap about 1200~ units or so (tooltip says 900) every 18 seconds. and its a legit leap, you can jump over rivers & other obstacles that traditional movement skills like RTL wont allow you to do, ie. dashes Then you also have RTL as well. so you can cover up to 2400 units of space very quickly and on demand. (Thanks unravel! your the best! )and if your still getting your ankles bitten you can jump right into burning speed & steam surge combos, and if you like overkill add in mudslide as well. they're all evade frames you can use back to back.

Closing Statements:

The build works. Plain and simple, I've changed things many times, but ever since this rune & sigil update, and some of the recent elementalist/weaver changes, D/D weaver's power has been fleshed out more and more until now, where i've decided I think it's ready to post to the public for people who want to try something else.

No the builds not quite as tanky as a sw/d weaver. but the exchange from defense to a build that can nail some squishy people to downed state in less than 5 seconds is a worthy trade-off in my opinion. You have alot of tools, and unravel makes them accessible much more quickly.

I've got alot of good players in my guild, (private grubby our GM is a regular top 10 pvper), and i've put it to the test against all of them and its a winner.

My internet sucks now - but i'll try and upload a few videos in the next few days of some of my gameplay & commentary to the forum so people can see how I use it. If you'd like to practice, or duel to see me in action please feel free to message me in game @ kornfanxxx.9143

Try it out, thanks for reading my post if you bothered, and let me know what you think!

Edit:
Here's another valid version using pack runes if aristocracy runes aren't your thing or you don't have access. swap arcane precision for arcane abatement & throw on pack runes your good to go

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYncMA94i14CG5CM5iFTAroKWADB3j528bmoCEAaAA-j1RGABRp8DgHAQeKBfU9nEOBAws/Ad6BCAgAcz2MAu5Nv5Nv5NrNv5Nv5Nv5Nv5NvZpA2amG-w

Edit 2: (PvP Build Ideas I'm toying with as well)

Celestial amulet & aristocraacy runes (D/D)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYncMA94i14CG5CM5iFTAjoCEAaA3j528buYKWADBA-jJhIABAcCAEqMwY7P4/DAAA

abuses aristocracy runes for high might uptime, I know celestial amulet got nerfed from +512 to all stats to +460, which results in the
same amount of total stat allocation as any four stat amulet, However! it is the only amulet with toughness/healing power & vitality, &
you can still do moderate power damage, however I've found going for burn bursts were the more reliable way to down players.

Wizard amulet & altruism runes, (D/D)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYncMA94i14CG5CM5iFTAjoCEAaA3j528buoKWADBA-jJhIQBA4EA4vHAQJLDIm9HAA

Altruism provides 300 healing power & 150 concentrations worth or 15% boon duration with the recent update. useful for ele's
who wish to use an amulet that concentrates more on damage, while giving healing power a back seat.

Swashbuckler & altruism build (Sword/Dagger)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsYncMA94idOAG5CM5iFWArIJm/qAEJgDQA4eLHmLzA-jJhIQB+7BAAgTAAJLDIm9HAA

this goes on the same concept as the wizard build, but swaps to swashbuckler for power & precision main to keep power damage
consistent while using sword since its ability to crit is lower than daggers.

Final edit: link to a youtube video i threw together over past two days to give people an idea of how i operate the build.

These really aren't my best fights, i was tired in a few, & i was kinda limited to just a few hours of gameplay. but I hate those youtube
videos where guys do nothing but highlight crazy wins, humblebrag much.youtu.be/K0OJUZInTuk

Comments

  • interesting....

  • @Cicada.6298 said:
    interesting....

    glad you think so. was honestly expecting alot of skepticism in the thread, I guess there's still plenty of time though lol

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2019

    @kornfanxxx.9143 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYncMA94i14CG5CM5iFTArYKWADBEVgAQD4eM3mfzA-j1RGABst/QCnAgHV/hO9AA8AAyTJYUK/CAgAcz2MAu5Nv5Nv5NrNv5Nv5Nv5Nv5NvZpA2amG-w

    Hi all, Name's Jenzi, I'm an officer in the WvW/Spvp guild [love]. I'm a Weaver main & i've mained D/D weaver since a month after PoF dropped, I've also mained elementalist since Gw2's launch. Some of you who frequent twitch may have seen me stream some several months ago before my internet situation became cruddy. :anguished: This is a long post so prepare your eyes for this giant wall of text.

    Alot of people here, & in game have always disliked the dagger main-hand weapon with weaver due to swords more obvious defensive & easily accessible abilities located on it's 2 skill as opposed to dagger. Dagger is a complicated weapon, and it's potential is not easily seen nor realized. So I decided to make this forum post to enlighten the community as to why D/D weaver is a completely viable choice to play with.

    Unravel, its a skill everyone seems to like to pick on, yet its my single most favorite ele utility skill. For sword users, yeah unravel seems like a moot utility, for dagger users - it's your bread & butter. Unravel does a lot of things,

    • (traited) it provides stability, then either 5 might/fury/protection/vigor depending on your main-hand attunement.
    • It brings your offhand weapon skills to your main-hand, and allows you to access your double attuned 3 skill.
    • it resets the global ICD of 3.5 seconds (4 seconds un-traited) of all attunements to allow instant attunement swaps.
    • (Traited) It reacts with the grand master trait Elements of rage, granting an 8 second 10% damage buff.

    D/D weaver is FAST & COMPLICATED. There's a lot going on while your fighting, if your unfamiliar with the muscle memory of dagger's dual skill effects & double attuned effects this build will have a large learning curve, But there's a lot of potential for damage with this build. in my humble opinion it does far more damage than a similar sword build. Damage with dagger is far easier to achieve due to its large amount of damaging movement skills (three of which have evade frames), up to 80~% crit chance, (see elements of rage & superior elements traits) passive might generation that easily provides 25 might, & the builds ability to instantly follow up one big burst with another due to unravel bypassing cool downs.

    (fun hint burning speed & plasma burst hit for the same amount of damage making for a great burst combo for over 10k+ damage sometimes)

    This build does have a lot of blast finishers, which before the big sigil & rune update i did use to blast ring of fire & burning speed to provide my might. Now the build does the might stacking for me. Might is extremely important to any celestial equipped build, but even more so for elementalists. I'll put it this way to make it easy to understand:

    If a warrior using a hammer has 25 might he's benefiting from a bonus of 750 power, while he is indeed getting 750 condition damage as well, he gets no benefit from it. When an elementalist in celestial gear has 25 might, he's getting again 750 power & condition damage, but his weapon sets are hybrid focused, and are benefiting from both benefits might provides.
    so it's kinda like your gaining a bonus of 1500 stat points (not to mention celestial's inherent stat point advantage vs min max builds) vs 750 for a non hybrid build in most cases.

    It also has access to more pbAOE CC on its weapon set than most any other builds in the game, making setting up bursts easy and consistent, you'll have plenty of chances.

    So lets move on to the build I linked:

    Gear/Weapons/infusions : Celestial gear is an obvious pick here due to its benefit to elementalists, & its inherent advantage of having an insane amount more of total stat point allotment than any 3 stat or stat piece of gear. (I also use full power infusions, 18 of them = +90 extra power, every little bit counts!)

    rune & sigil choices: Superior Rune of the Aristocracy runes are a clever pick in my book to use, since the sigil & rune update, it now grants 5 stacks of might for 4 seconds on weakness application on a 1 second ICD. for our specific purposes, this is extremely potent. weakness is a common condition we apply in our fights. If you don't have access to this rune, Pack runes work pretty well too. Battle & strength sigils both got buffs recently as well, with battle granting 5 might vs 2, & strength having a 100% chance to provide might on crit vs its old 60% chance on crit.

    Traits, if you look at my trait picks, you can tell its pretty offensively biased vs a sword users build. I'll guarantee you'll feel the difference too. high fury access, Elements of rage, & superior elements bring your crit chance up there with guys running full berserkers or marauders gear. I picked up Bolstered elements, obvious pick since we're using 4 different stances including the elite, 3 of which all have 2 ammo to them. so you'll have a steady flow of stability whenever you need it. the rest is pretty standard stuff.

    condition cleansing: it's obvious the build has less condition cleanse access than a sword weavers with woven stride, but by taking the cleansing wave trait, attuning to water will clear two conditions, katabolic winds will clear another, transmute frost from frost aura will cleanse a fourth, evasive arcania a fifth, then dagger 5 water cleansing wave two more, for a total of 7 conditions cleansed within a short time period until you have cool downs, and in emergencies you can always hit unravel to double attune away from water & reset your global ICD, then swap right into water again for quicker cleansing.

    boons: D/D has a unique leg up on sword builds due to its ability to gain fury regularly. The build capitalizes on this by taking superior elements & elements of rage to provide a dangerous amount of crit chance. You also have the ability to get on demand protection/vigor/(5) might by hitting unravel. Beyond that the build has more stability uptime than a similar sword build as well as more fire field access & the most blast finishers ele's ever seen for aoe might.

    (once you get good at the muscle memory of the build you can actually use unravel to fit every single blast finisher in the weapon set inside of ring of fire and there's six blast finishers available including evasive arcania, can give your group upwards of 20+ might in less than 4 seconds)

    Mobility: alot of people dislike ditching lightning flash. but guess what! anet hooked us up! Magnetic leap got a buff which allows you to literally leap about 1200~ units or so (tooltip says 900) every 18 seconds. and its a legit leap, you can jump over rivers & other obstacles that traditional movement skills like RTL wont allow you to do, ie. dashes Then you also have RTL as well. so you can cover up to 2400 units of space very quickly and on demand. (Thanks unravel! your the best! )and if your still getting your ankles bitten you can jump right into burning speed & steam surge combos, and if you like overkill add in mudslide as well. they're all evade frames you can use back to back.

    Closing Statements:

    The build works. Plain and simple, I've changed things many times, but ever since this rune & sigil update, and some of the recent elementalist/weaver changes, D/D weaver's power has been fleshed out more and more until now, where i've decided I think it's ready to post to the public for people who want to try something else.

    No the builds not quite as tanky as a sw/d weaver. but the exchange from defense to a build that can nail some squishy people to downed state in less than 5 seconds is a worthy trade-off in my opinion. You have alot of tools, and unravel makes them accessible much more quickly.

    I've got alot of good players in my guild, (private grubby our GM is a regular top 10 pvper), and i've put it to the test against all of them and its a winner.

    My internet sucks now - but i'll try and upload a few videos in the next few days of some of my gameplay & commentary to the forum so people can see how I use it. If you'd like to practice, or duel to see me in action please feel free to message me in game @ kornfanxxx.9143

    Try it out, thanks for reading my post if you bothered, and let me know what you think!

    Edit:
    Here's another valid version using pack runes if aristocracy runes aren't your thing or you don't have access. swap arcane precision for arcane abatement & throw on pack runes your good to go

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYncMA94i14CG5CM5iFTAroKWADB3j528bmoCEAaAA-j1RGABRp8DgHAQeKBfU9nEOBAws/Ad6BCAgAcz2MAu5Nv5Nv5NrNv5Nv5Nv5Nv5NvZpA2amG-w

    The cast time and animations of d/d weaver are not ideal for the playstyle you suggest, you're basically suggesting a core d/d ele with a tad more dmg but way less fluidity to play ; a sword weaver offers an alternative to core d/d while not losing fluidity..actually gaining some.

    There are big delays when you try to set up simple burst combos and this gives the time to the enemy to retaliate; the damage you do comes fromt the stats you run and your only threatening burst skill is "plasma burst", about the rest is not worth to run d/d weaver over core d/d fire/water/arcana...actually there is a good chance you would lose to core d/d

    The math behind your build is solid though and unravel may make things different in a 1v1 scenario...I would have to see the build in action ...

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @kornfanxxx.9143 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYncMA94i14CG5CM5iFTArYKWADBEVgAQD4eM3mfzA-j1RGABst/QCnAgHV/hO9AA8AAyTJYUK/CAgAcz2MAu5Nv5Nv5NrNv5Nv5Nv5Nv5NvZpA2amG-w

    Hi all, Name's Jenzi, I'm an officer in the WvW/Spvp guild [love]. I'm a Weaver main & i've mained D/D weaver since a month after PoF dropped, I've also mained elementalist since Gw2's launch. Some of you who frequent twitch may have seen me stream some several months ago before my internet situation became cruddy. :anguished: This is a long post so prepare your eyes for this giant wall of text.

    Alot of people here, & in game have always disliked the dagger main-hand weapon with weaver due to swords more obvious defensive & easily accessible abilities located on it's 2 skill as opposed to dagger. Dagger is a complicated weapon, and it's potential is not easily seen nor realized. So I decided to make this forum post to enlighten the community as to why D/D weaver is a completely viable choice to play with.

    Unravel, its a skill everyone seems to like to pick on, yet its my single most favorite ele utility skill. For sword users, yeah unravel seems like a moot utility, for dagger users - it's your bread & butter. Unravel does a lot of things,

    • (traited) it provides stability, then either 5 might/fury/protection/vigor depending on your main-hand attunement.
    • It brings your offhand weapon skills to your main-hand, and allows you to access your double attuned 3 skill.
    • it resets the global ICD of 3.5 seconds (4 seconds un-traited) of all attunements to allow instant attunement swaps.
    • (Traited) It reacts with the grand master trait Elements of rage, granting an 8 second 10% damage buff.

    D/D weaver is FAST & COMPLICATED. There's a lot going on while your fighting, if your unfamiliar with the muscle memory of dagger's dual skill effects & double attuned effects this build will have a large learning curve, But there's a lot of potential for damage with this build. in my humble opinion it does far more damage than a similar sword build. Damage with dagger is far easier to achieve due to its large amount of damaging movement skills (three of which have evade frames), up to 80~% crit chance, (see elements of rage & superior elements traits) passive might generation that easily provides 25 might, & the builds ability to instantly follow up one big burst with another due to unravel bypassing cool downs.

    (fun hint burning speed & plasma burst hit for the same amount of damage making for a great burst combo for over 10k+ damage sometimes)

    This build does have a lot of blast finishers, which before the big sigil & rune update i did use to blast ring of fire & burning speed to provide my might. Now the build does the might stacking for me. Might is extremely important to any celestial equipped build, but even more so for elementalists. I'll put it this way to make it easy to understand:

    If a warrior using a hammer has 25 might he's benefiting from a bonus of 750 power, while he is indeed getting 750 condition damage as well, he gets no benefit from it. When an elementalist in celestial gear has 25 might, he's getting again 750 power & condition damage, but his weapon sets are hybrid focused, and are benefiting from both benefits might provides.
    so it's kinda like your gaining a bonus of 1500 stat points (not to mention celestial's inherent stat point advantage vs min max builds) vs 750 for a non hybrid build in most cases.

    It also has access to more pbAOE CC on its weapon set than most any other builds in the game, making setting up bursts easy and consistent, you'll have plenty of chances.

    So lets move on to the build I linked:

    Gear/Weapons/infusions : Celestial gear is an obvious pick here due to its benefit to elementalists, & its inherent advantage of having an insane amount more of total stat point allotment than any 3 stat or stat piece of gear. (I also use full power infusions, 18 of them = +90 extra power, every little bit counts!)

    rune & sigil choices: Superior Rune of the Aristocracy runes are a clever pick in my book to use, since the sigil & rune update, it now grants 5 stacks of might for 4 seconds on weakness application on a 1 second ICD. for our specific purposes, this is extremely potent. weakness is a common condition we apply in our fights. If you don't have access to this rune, Pack runes work pretty well too. Battle & strength sigils both got buffs recently as well, with battle granting 5 might vs 2, & strength having a 100% chance to provide might on crit vs its old 60% chance on crit.

    Traits, if you look at my trait picks, you can tell its pretty offensively biased vs a sword users build. I'll guarantee you'll feel the difference too. high fury access, Elements of rage, & superior elements bring your crit chance up there with guys running full berserkers or marauders gear. I picked up Bolstered elements, obvious pick since we're using 4 different stances including the elite, 3 of which all have 2 ammo to them. so you'll have a steady flow of stability whenever you need it. the rest is pretty standard stuff.

    condition cleansing: it's obvious the build has less condition cleanse access than a sword weavers with woven stride, but by taking the cleansing wave trait, attuning to water will clear two conditions, katabolic winds will clear another, transmute frost from frost aura will cleanse a fourth, evasive arcania a fifth, then dagger 5 water cleansing wave two more, for a total of 7 conditions cleansed within a short time period until you have cool downs, and in emergencies you can always hit unravel to double attune away from water & reset your global ICD, then swap right into water again for quicker cleansing.

    boons: D/D has a unique leg up on sword builds due to its ability to gain fury regularly. The build capitalizes on this by taking superior elements & elements of rage to provide a dangerous amount of crit chance. You also have the ability to get on demand protection/vigor/(5) might by hitting unravel. Beyond that the build has more stability uptime than a similar sword build as well as more fire field access & the most blast finishers ele's ever seen for aoe might.

    (once you get good at the muscle memory of the build you can actually use unravel to fit every single blast finisher in the weapon set inside of ring of fire and there's six blast finishers available including evasive arcania, can give your group upwards of 20+ might in less than 4 seconds)

    Mobility: alot of people dislike ditching lightning flash. but guess what! anet hooked us up! Magnetic leap got a buff which allows you to literally leap about 1200~ units or so (tooltip says 900) every 18 seconds. and its a legit leap, you can jump over rivers & other obstacles that traditional movement skills like RTL wont allow you to do, ie. dashes Then you also have RTL as well. so you can cover up to 2400 units of space very quickly and on demand. (Thanks unravel! your the best! )and if your still getting your ankles bitten you can jump right into burning speed & steam surge combos, and if you like overkill add in mudslide as well. they're all evade frames you can use back to back.

    Closing Statements:

    The build works. Plain and simple, I've changed things many times, but ever since this rune & sigil update, and some of the recent elementalist/weaver changes, D/D weaver's power has been fleshed out more and more until now, where i've decided I think it's ready to post to the public for people who want to try something else.

    No the builds not quite as tanky as a sw/d weaver. but the exchange from defense to a build that can nail some squishy people to downed state in less than 5 seconds is a worthy trade-off in my opinion. You have alot of tools, and unravel makes them accessible much more quickly.

    I've got alot of good players in my guild, (private grubby our GM is a regular top 10 pvper), and i've put it to the test against all of them and its a winner.

    My internet sucks now - but i'll try and upload a few videos in the next few days of some of my gameplay & commentary to the forum so people can see how I use it. If you'd like to practice, or duel to see me in action please feel free to message me in game @ kornfanxxx.9143

    Try it out, thanks for reading my post if you bothered, and let me know what you think!

    Edit:
    Here's another valid version using pack runes if aristocracy runes aren't your thing or you don't have access. swap arcane precision for arcane abatement & throw on pack runes your good to go

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYncMA94i14CG5CM5iFTAroKWADB3j528bmoCEAaAA-j1RGABRp8DgHAQeKBfU9nEOBAws/Ad6BCAgAcz2MAu5Nv5Nv5NrNv5Nv5Nv5Nv5NvZpA2amG-w

    The cast time and animations of d/d weaver are not ideal for the playstyle you suggest, you're basically suggesting a core d/d ele with a tad more dmg but way less fluidity to play ; a sword weaver offers an alternative to core d/d while not losing fluidity..actually gaining some.

    There are big delays when you try to set up simple burst combos and this gives the time to the enemy to retaliate; the damage you do comes fromt the stats you run and your only threatening burst skill is "plasma burst", about the rest is not worth to run d/d weaver over core d/d fire/water/arcana...actually there is a good chance you would lose to core d/d

    The math behind your build is solid though and unravel may make things different in a 1v1 scenario...I would have to see the build in action ...

    Your just gonna have to wait for my videos or PM me in game and get a demonstration, it's kinda tough to put into words how unravel brings a whole new aspect to the weapon set that most people thought was clunky. for me d/d weaver feels extremely smooth and im never not casting something. it gives you the ability to react so much faster to whatever your opponent is about to do, you could be in fire/water, see a thief 1200 units out about to steal to you, hit unravel and instantly go into air and pop shocking aura. which requires double attuning anyways. its hard to describe accurately in words.

  • Looking forward to your videos. All the other weaver setups weren't too hard to learn but D/D weaver is weird. What are some common offensive and defensive rotation you do?

  • Electra.7530Electra.7530 Member ✭✭
    edited January 20, 2019

    Ever since they gave a greatsword to the necro/reaper, I've been skeptical. I don't see the light armored chars meleeing. Daggers and swords on all these light armored toons is a difficult playstyle for me.

    I main a scourge using full minions and Trailblazer / Dire stat combo gear. I'm odd as opposed to my viper counterparts who are far more skilled to play their light armored class with melee weapons.

    When I made my elementalist, i liked dagger in pve. But, that's how I learned I had to play high condition damage at range with toughness. For ele, that class is very challenging. So, your post about a dd weaver is very interesting. I would like to see your videos too.

  • @Revilo G.4352 said:
    Looking forward to your videos. All the other weaver setups weren't too hard to learn but D/D weaver is weird. What are some common offensive and defensive rotation you do?

    double attuning to fire, popping the elite for 20% condi damage, then popping primordial stance, then hitting's drakes breath is one way i like to sneak alot of damage on somebody, they dont react as much to me using it while they instantly get 12+ burn stacks ticking for 4k+ then the power damage from drakes breath while channeled is really potent, and its on a 5 second cooldown can crit upwards of 5k+ pretty consistantly.

    another fun one is the typical updraft>burning speed, but i usually do this then hit plasma burst as well, if your @ 25 might & land crits, each one should be hitting between 5-8k per skill. not to mention firegrab.

    another example thats fun is adding together grinding stones primordial stance & air auto, lightning whip. your doing a alot of damage alot of different ways from that one, grinding stone hitting 6 times for 500-800 per, then primordial doing similar damage. air auto from lightning whip has traditionally been the best AA in dagger ele's arsenal. still holds true as a big hitter now.

    as far as defense goes, lightning aura is a go-to instant oh-kitten button to stop a barrage of burst damage @ melee range. ring of earth has projectile blocks in it for about two seconds or so, one useful thing to do when you know you got cooldowns for offensive evade frames is to pop your elite in earth, thats 440 toughness, hit grinding stones, make sure protection is up, then eat the damage if you have to mud slide is also my mvp, i use it defensively alot with people chasing me around, its pretty funny to see them knocked down

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've also played DD weaver in spvp and it is quite fun. But I never could bring myself to slot unravel. It's like giving mirage a utility to be able to not dodge while performing an action. I just can't accept a bandaid skill that you have to slot to bypass your spec mechanic, and to trait to make it decent (plus you lose swiftness>regen>cleanse generation). But Celestial gear doesn't work here, boonstrip/conversion far too common, and nodes are pure bio hazard for melee specs. Also most builds can brush off your condi application. The good part is people don't expect a DD weaver and most are not used with its gameplay and skills.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Also looking forward to videos.

  • got alot of requests for videos so I'll go ahead and fire up OBS studio over the next day or so of my game time, and get you guys something to watch and give you an idea of how the build operates.

  • @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    I've also played DD weaver in spvp and it is quite fun. But I never could bring myself to slot unravel. It's like giving mirage a utility to be able to not dodge while performing an action. I just can't accept a bandaid skill that you have to slot to bypass your spec mechanic, and to trait to make it decent (plus you lose swiftness>regen>cleanse generation). But Celestial gear doesn't work here, boonstrip/conversion far too common, and nodes are pure bio hazard for melee specs. Also most builds can brush off your condi application. The good part is people don't expect a DD weaver and most are not used with its gameplay and skills.

    I originally thought of unravel as a band-aid fix myself, but:

    Unravel: This skill now grants boons based on the primary attunement the elementalist unravels to. It grants 5 seconds of vigor for water, 5 seconds of fury for air, 5 seconds of protection for earth, and 5 stacks of might for 5 seconds for fire. In addition, using this skill now fully recharges all the weaver's attunement skills

    When anet changed unravel to fully recharge the global attunement ICD, this turned unravel from a clunky band-aid to a multipurpose versatile tool, that allows you to instantly react with the proper tool to your situation, shifting from say, water/earth to fire/fire, allowing you to go from a defensive posture to the offensive as fast as your fingers will allow. in Spvp, yeah - fighting builds running annulment sigils or fighting a scourge, any kind of boon ripping, your going to chance your might getting ripped/corrupted. good news is with aristocracy runes your able to generate might at a very respectable rate, not including your sigil's activating and such.

    most of the time your ability to apply boons with proper play will occur more often than the persons ability to rip those boons, least in my experience.

    far as condi application goes, most of the time when im going for condi damage in a burst setup im combo'ing drakes breath with my elite & primordial stance double attuned to fire. within the first & second tick of the conditions application it's already done 3-4k damage if your mights high. far as im concerned that's fine. still plenty of power damage that can be applied as well, it's a hybrid build, and played properly does alot of damage.

  • Mr Godlike.6098Mr Godlike.6098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2019

    I am pvp guy so:
    As Conquest is demanding mode requiring not only good build (not really since season 6 pvp population evacuation) but having healthy knowledge of what you can reasonably do or not, where to be and where you definitely you should not be:
    1. What's the role of this build? 1v1? Team fighter? +1oner? Lack of lightning flash makes me really confused about this.
    2. Does it have good win ratio vs specific meta builds? What 1v1s should be avoided? Necro is no brainer but anything else?
    3. Let's say your 1v1 goes to long and your getting +1 by mirage something, power rev, thief something. How to behave in scenario?
    4. How it performs in 2v2? With what class/build should I go duo to max synergies?

    Looking forward to see your videos although i hope it won't be some random moments from pvp match but some 1v1's in fair environment.

  • @Mr Godlike.6098 said:

    I am pvp guy so:
    As Conquest is demanding mode requiring not only good build (not really since season 6 pvp population evacuation) but having healthy knowledge of what you can reasonably do or not, where to be and where you definitely you should not be:
    1. What's the role of this build? 1v1? Team fighter? +1oner? Lack of lightning flash makes me really confused about this.
    2. Does it have good win ratio vs specific meta builds? What 1v1s should be avoided? Necro is no brainer but anything else?
    3. Let's say your 1v1 goes to long and your getting +1 by mirage something, power rev, thief something. How to behave in scenario?
    4. How it performs in 2v2? With what class/build should I go duo to max synergies?

    Looking forward to see your videos although i hope it won't be some random moments from pvp match but some 1v1's in fair environment.

    The build can fight at mid reasonably well as a team fighter, depending on the opposing teams composition, as well as your own, you have evade frames tied to your offensive skills vs sword which are defensive in nature, Burning speed, (.75sec evade& 12 second cooldown) Steam surge (.75sec evade& 18 second cd) & water field/2k~ heal , then Mud Slide (.5 sec evade 20 sec CD) which leave a stationary CC about 450 units long for 3 seconds, resulting in a two second knockdown. between these, & twist of fate. you can stay in the thick of things while avoiding damage for a small amount of time, until you need to figure out if your getting focused & need to kite out, or if your golden and have downs to cleave. not to mention almost every single skill in d/d's kit is a PBaoe, which makes it easy to land hits on people in front of you, behind you, under you, doesn't matter.

    But majority of the time I like fighting side nodes more in 1v1 & +1 situations, if your not careful you can get focused down in team fights, but who can't really lol.

    you've got a lot of mobility via magnetic leap & ride the lightning, on 18 second & 30 second cool-downs respectively. so you wont miss lightning flash, traveling between points is a cinch and very fast.

    in terms of specific fights, tbqh I never have issues with most necros. matter of fact the d/d demo footage im collecting right now has a fight vs a scourge @ a camp in wvw and I won confidently.

    the only class i'll avoid is mirages, condition mirages are brutal due to our more limited sources of condition clense vs woven stride weavers, not saying you can't kill them, and i have beaten them before - but eventually you run out of steam with cleansing, so ill tend to just go balls to the wall and hope for a CC chain stun.

    If i'm getting +1'd ill judge the situation while fighting, if i dont think i can win, ill double attune to earth, and use magnetic leap to hop away and start moving to another point.

    I'll try and get some buddies into an spvp dueling server or my guild hall arena and get some start to finish fights in. my guildies aren't on right now though & im shooting footage of my roaming in WvW. hopefully it'll give people a rough idea of how i rotate & the kinda numbers you can expect.

  • All I wanted to know, thanks!

  • kornfanxxx.9143kornfanxxx.9143 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2019

    @Mr Godlike.6098 said:

    All I wanted to know, thanks!

    yeah one last thing i guess which is obvious, is making a habit of keeping a close eye on your boons, and practicing making your might ramp up time to cap as fast as possible, then keeping it there as long as you can. the build does alot of the work for you, but sometimes it's easy to lose track of the skills your casting, I.E. not using air 2 (lightning touch - weakness->5might&15% crit chance) /fury), dual skills every 10~ seconds, and trying to auto attack every so often with air auto lightning whip. the way i have it setup, you'll generate a good amount of might passively, but to keep her capped @ 25 it takes some level of awareness & effort, albeit alot less than not using this setup.

    edit: also, feel free to message me in game @ my handle if you want to discuss it further or want a duel/demonstration/practice. goes for anyone. ill be on all day today.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You maybe over-killing might generation. I am not so sure how good off hand dagger is any more foces tends to let you realty dive into group.

    Weaver has some real cool effect from its duel skill on dagger but your still an mages class trying to go into melee with out one hit shots like you see from a reaper. I for one love mud slide but it blockable now it takes a lot away from the effect. Over all there just not much of a point when you can just be a staff weaver out side of solo roaming.

    Dagger main hand on ele tempest and weaver realty needs effects that wants your target to get off of you out side of dps (something you get from every thing else on ele) it needs a lot more soft cc or even boon strip. Melee mages need a very high reward for the risk they put them self at.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • kornfanxxx.9143kornfanxxx.9143 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2019

    @Jski.6180 said:
    You maybe over-killing might generation. I am not so sure how good off hand dagger is any more foces tends to let you realty dive into group.

    Weaver has some real cool effect from its duel skill on dagger but your still an mages class trying to go into melee with out one hit shots like you see from a reaper. I for one love mud slide but it blockable now it takes a lot away from the effect. Over all there just not much of a point when you can just be a staff weaver out side of solo roaming.

    Dagger main hand on ele tempest and weaver realty needs effects that wants your target to get off of you out side of dps (something you get from every thing else on ele) it needs a lot more soft cc or even boon strip. Melee mages need a very high reward for the risk they put them self at.

    From experience I can say even with this setup, I still cant maintain perma 25 might stacks throughout the entire duration of a fight, the stacks will falter if im kiting/being kited, boons are ripped/stolen/or im low on health and offensive boons are low priority. with this setup, my might comes and comes in heavy when im using offensive skills/attunements, and the idea is i want that might as quickly as possible, because the more skills i blow below 25 might, the less front loaded damage im doing.

    edit: d/f didnt feel quite as smooth to me as d/d though it may be bias. d/d has more mobility with ride the lightning, and follows the general theme of PBAOE that mainhand dagger & dual skills have. focus has always been defensive/utility & single target focused in my mind.

  • Bezerker.2379Bezerker.2379 Member ✭✭✭

    Having run with Jenzi for quite a bit in [love] and then getting blown up by him the other night, I approve this message. :P

  • @Bezerker.2379 said:
    Having run with Jenzi for quite a bit in [love] and then getting blown up by him the other night, I approve this message. :P

    you sure know how to make a guy blush bezzie.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kornfanxxx.9143 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    You maybe over-killing might generation. I am not so sure how good off hand dagger is any more foces tends to let you realty dive into group.

    Weaver has some real cool effect from its duel skill on dagger but your still an mages class trying to go into melee with out one hit shots like you see from a reaper. I for one love mud slide but it blockable now it takes a lot away from the effect. Over all there just not much of a point when you can just be a staff weaver out side of solo roaming.

    Dagger main hand on ele tempest and weaver realty needs effects that wants your target to get off of you out side of dps (something you get from every thing else on ele) it needs a lot more soft cc or even boon strip. Melee mages need a very high reward for the risk they put them self at.

    From experience I can say even with this setup, I still cant maintain perma 25 might stacks throughout the entire duration of a fight, the stacks will falter if im kiting/being kited, boons are ripped/stolen/or im low on health and offensive boons are low priority. with this setup, my might comes and comes in heavy when im using offensive skills/attunements, and the idea is i want that might as quickly as possible, because the more skills i blow below 25 might, the less front loaded damage im doing.

    edit: d/f didnt feel quite as smooth to me as d/d though it may be bias. d/d has more mobility with ride the lightning, and follows the general theme of PBAOE that mainhand dagger & dual skills have. focus has always been defensive/utility & single target focused in my mind.

    I think the might on crit may be too slow better to run blood lust to push your dmg higher.

    D/F is more aimed for group play that how i think about it. Nothing on off hand dagger will stop 10 ppl hitting you at once.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • fuzzyp.6295fuzzyp.6295 Member ✭✭✭

    I want to believe!! I've tried a build similar to you and even with Unravel, giving up that utility just didn't work out that well. This was before the recent sigil/rune update though and my D/D build has been much more effective with the changes so I can imagine a D/D Weaver build would be too. I'm waiting anxiously for the videos. :)

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Please also include some PVP games. WvW doesn't compare with it at all when it comes to +1ing, side noding and stuff. I'd be curious. :smile:

  • Fortus.6175Fortus.6175 Member ✭✭✭

    I have given D/D weaver an honest try before and I don't think it is inherently bad, however, it lacks a flow coming directly from the fact that you are locked from attunement switching for a few seconds after changing element, also, you are heavily locked into arcane for almost anything, more than other D/D builds.

    It plays differently from previous iterations of D/D so it is unfair to compare the dynamicity between both, it is slower, does hit slightly harder at expense of small hit boxes and long casting times which lock you into animations, also, tend to be low in sustain compared to sword given that water #2 is vastly different in output healing, no dodging and locks you in animation for a long time, which makes you very vulnerable.

    Perhaps the saving grace of the build is water/earth #3, but like many have said previously in the thread, it is hard to justify its weaknesses when its strengths are barely..... strong enough even with meticulous and near perfect-condition set ups.

  • @Fortus.6175 said:
    I have given D/D weaver an honest try before and I don't think it is inherently bad, however, it lacks a flow coming directly from the fact that you are locked from attunement switching for a few seconds after changing element, also, you are heavily locked into arcane for almost anything, more than other D/D builds.

    It plays differently from previous iterations of D/D so it is unfair to compare the dynamicity between both, it is slower, does hit slightly harder at expense of small hit boxes and long casting times which lock you into animations, also, tend to be low in sustain compared to sword given that water #2 is vastly different in output healing, no dodging and locks you in animation for a long time, which makes you very vulnerable.

    Perhaps the saving grace of the build is water/earth #3, but like many have said previously in the thread, it is hard to justify its weaknesses when its strengths are barely..... strong enough even with meticulous and near perfect-condition set ups.

    give me a chance to upload some video with how I use the build before you pass judgement. i'll try & have something for you guys to watch up tonight. i just need to get some spvp footage and a few more wvw fights.

  • Fortus.6175Fortus.6175 Member ✭✭✭

    @kornfanxxx.9143 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:
    I have given D/D weaver an honest try before and I don't think it is inherently bad, however, it lacks a flow coming directly from the fact that you are locked from attunement switching for a few seconds after changing element, also, you are heavily locked into arcane for almost anything, more than other D/D builds.

    It plays differently from previous iterations of D/D so it is unfair to compare the dynamicity between both, it is slower, does hit slightly harder at expense of small hit boxes and long casting times which lock you into animations, also, tend to be low in sustain compared to sword given that water #2 is vastly different in output healing, no dodging and locks you in animation for a long time, which makes you very vulnerable.

    Perhaps the saving grace of the build is water/earth #3, but like many have said previously in the thread, it is hard to justify its weaknesses when its strengths are barely..... strong enough even with meticulous and near perfect-condition set ups.

    give me a chance to upload some video with how I use the build before you pass judgement. i'll try & have something for you guys to watch up tonight. i just need to get some spvp footage and a few more wvw fights.

    Sounds great, but I would wait until ranked starts to do that, also, please post the current rank at the time of the video. It isnt the same to fight bronze people with it, than plat people where the meta/skills are different. I'm actually trying to stay open minded about it, I want to be pleasantly surprised, who knows, maybe it works, but I wanna know if it is relevant to my rating or if it only works up to certain rating.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @kornfanxxx.9143 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:
    I have given D/D weaver an honest try before and I don't think it is inherently bad, however, it lacks a flow coming directly from the fact that you are locked from attunement switching for a few seconds after changing element, also, you are heavily locked into arcane for almost anything, more than other D/D builds.

    It plays differently from previous iterations of D/D so it is unfair to compare the dynamicity between both, it is slower, does hit slightly harder at expense of small hit boxes and long casting times which lock you into animations, also, tend to be low in sustain compared to sword given that water #2 is vastly different in output healing, no dodging and locks you in animation for a long time, which makes you very vulnerable.

    Perhaps the saving grace of the build is water/earth #3, but like many have said previously in the thread, it is hard to justify its weaknesses when its strengths are barely..... strong enough even with meticulous and near perfect-condition set ups.

    give me a chance to upload some video with how I use the build before you pass judgement. i'll try & have something for you guys to watch up tonight. i just need to get some spvp footage and a few more wvw fights.

    Sounds great, but I would wait until ranked starts to do that, also, please post the current rank at the time of the video. It isnt the same to fight bronze people with it, than plat people where the meta/skills are different. I'm actually trying to stay open minded about it, I want to be pleasantly surprised, who knows, maybe it works, but I wanna know if it is relevant to my rating or if it only works up to certain rating.

    Agreed, ranked would be much more interesting. You can partly determine the skill of the player and the enemies (and allies) from watching the video, but proper setups are always more interesting. :smile:

    Also agree with the scepticism, I only trolled with D/D a little and never liked it, but... well, still curious!

  • kornfanxxx.9143kornfanxxx.9143 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2019

    @Fortus.6175 said:

    @kornfanxxx.9143 said:

    @Fortus.6175 said:
    I have given D/D weaver an honest try before and I don't think it is inherently bad, however, it lacks a flow coming directly from the fact that you are locked from attunement switching for a few seconds after changing element, also, you are heavily locked into arcane for almost anything, more than other D/D builds.

    It plays differently from previous iterations of D/D so it is unfair to compare the dynamicity between both, it is slower, does hit slightly harder at expense of small hit boxes and long casting times which lock you into animations, also, tend to be low in sustain compared to sword given that water #2 is vastly different in output healing, no dodging and locks you in animation for a long time, which makes you very vulnerable.

    Perhaps the saving grace of the build is water/earth #3, but like many have said previously in the thread, it is hard to justify its weaknesses when its strengths are barely..... strong enough even with meticulous and near perfect-condition set ups.

    give me a chance to upload some video with how I use the build before you pass judgement. i'll try & have something for you guys to watch up tonight. i just need to get some spvp footage and a few more wvw fights.

    Sounds great, but I would wait until ranked starts to do that, also, please post the current rank at the time of the video. It isnt the same to fight bronze people with it, than plat people where the meta/skills are different. I'm actually trying to stay open minded about it, I want to be pleasantly surprised, who knows, maybe it works, but I wanna know if it is relevant to my rating or if it only works up to certain rating.

    Yeah you make a great point, I'll upload some of my wvw footage tonight to give people something to see, and shoot some spvp footage later. here's another build i've also been messing with in spvp too, to capitalize on hybrid damage with wizard ammy, and is supplemented by altruism's steroid level amount of healing power since the rune changes. can get you 420~ healing power in water and a bit of boon duration, not too far behind similar cele builds with a ton more deeps.

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYncMA94i14CG5CM5iFTAjoCEAaA3j528buoKWADBA-jJhIQBA4EA4vHAQJLDIm9HAA

    edit: I went ahead and posted builds I'm experimenting with in the OP, with short descriptions.

  • BlackBeard.2873BlackBeard.2873 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2019

    Honestly, this build isn't bad by any means, but it really relies on catching your enemies off-guard. You don't really have high burst, and the biggest "bursts" are either from combos with a long setup or a big condi dump that can occur with a good amount of setup. It works when people have no idea, but after fighting it for a little while and learning to prioritize cleansing only when they have a bunch of burns. The power damage basically just tickles (unless you set up your ideal combo), and the condi damage relies on being unnoticed until its too late.

    As d/d always has, it relies on having high prot uptime, lots of cleanses, and a good mix of hard/soft control (launches, knock downs, chilled, cripple, weakness). This doesn't really work all that well in the game of today where people have huge bursts that they can repeat with little wait. There isn't enough hard mitigation (evades, blocks, invulns on a short enough CD) for the major bursts and not enough damage to properly pressure other bruisers.

    This will work against people playing off-meta builds, or bad/decent players relying on being carried by a meta build, but will struggle mightily against a good player on a meta build. You can effectively hold a point against a burst/dps build by out-sustaining them, or verse a a bunker (firebrand). However, a competently played bruiser will just win because they have more sustain and more damage output. Holos, spellbreakers, even core guards (burst) will probably overwhelm whatever even the best d/d ele can do.

    Its not your fault, it ANets for balancing ele for a 2014 meta while everyone else is dumping out absurd 2019 dps.

    Edit: I think this came off more negative than I intended. I applaud you for fighting the good fight, and trying to make a PoS class actually work in a fun way. I'm sure you can have some success, especially, as mentioned when you fight people who have no idea what your build is capable of (and most players have probably never seen a d/d ele in a pvp environment nowadays). I would love to see gameplay footage! However, I am pretty confident this will never challenge as a meta-viable build. To put it another way, once you start playing this build in PvP, you will probably see some initial success as you work your way up through the bulk of (mostly PvE) players who don't understand conquest or how to really play their class well. You will probably also feel like at some point you just hit a really hard, solid wall, where no matter what you do you can't compete. This is when you've played up to the MMR ceiling of the build and are going against equally good (or slightly worse players) that are competently playing better builds (which do more things with fewer holes and effort).

  • kornfanxxx.9143kornfanxxx.9143 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2019

    @BlackBeard.2873 said:
    Honestly, this build isn't bad by any means, but it really relies on catching your enemies off-guard. You don't really have high burst, and the biggest "bursts" are either from combos with a long setup or a big condi dump that can occur with a good amount of setup. It works when people have no idea, but after fighting it for a little while and learning to prioritize cleansing only when they have a bunch of burns. The power damage basically just tickles (unless you set up your ideal combo), and the condi damage relies on being unnoticed until its too late.

    As d/d always has, it relies on having high prot uptime, lots of cleanses, and a good mix of hard/soft control (launches, knock downs, chilled, cripple, weakness). This doesn't really work all that well in the game of today where people have huge bursts that they can repeat with little wait. There isn't enough hard mitigation (evades, blocks, invulns on a short enough CD) for the major bursts and not enough damage to properly pressure other bruisers.

    This will work against people playing off-meta builds, or bad/decent players relying on being carried by a meta build, but will struggle mightily against a good player on a meta build. You can effectively hold a point against a burst/dps build by out-sustaining them, or verse a a bunker (firebrand). However, a competently played bruiser will just win because they have more sustain and more damage output. Holos, spellbreakers, even core guards (burst) will probably overwhelm whatever even the best d/d ele can do.

    Its not your fault, it ANets for balancing ele for a 2014 meta while everyone else is dumping out absurd 2019 dps.

    Edit: I think this came off more negative than I intended. I applaud you for fighting the good fight, and trying to make a PoS class actually work in a fun way. I'm sure you can have some success, especially, as mentioned when you fight people who have no idea what your build is capable of (and most players have probably never seen a d/d ele in a pvp environment nowadays). I would love to see gameplay footage! However, I am pretty confident this will never challenge as a meta-viable build. To put it another way, once you start playing this build in PvP, you will probably see some initial success as you work your way up through the bulk of (mostly PvE) players who don't understand conquest or how to really play their class well. You will probably also feel like at some point you just hit a really hard, solid wall, where no matter what you do you can't compete. This is when you've played up to the MMR ceiling of the build and are going against equally good (or slightly worse players) that are competently playing better builds (which do more things with fewer holes and effort).

    Yeah, This build likely won't be carrying any high tier matches but I don't think its dead weight. But frankly neither will Sw/D weaver. in Spvp the builds not nearly as powerful as it is in wvw, where full cele gives your upward of +700~ or more to all your stats, in WvW & guild hall duels there's only one 1v1 scenerio i'm worried i'd lose, which is against a condi mirage and sometimes an extremely good rev who can kite me (getting kited can be an issue sometimes). it's a great duelist in my humble opinion, and it's beaten private grubby's harrier brand build in guild hall & spvp lobby arena duels before, while everyone in my guild despises dueling him, especially in guild halls where firebrand has some pve only trait & skill advantages. I've fought his build on sword/dag before & couldn't even half health him due to lack of damage.

    I just figured I should go ahead and post what I've been using that gives people an alternative build to the run of the mill sword/dagger heal spam weavers that will do enough damage to potentially end fights in 20 seconds instead of 3 minutes lol.

    Anyways It's a moot point to debate things until I have enough footage for you guys to watch & see how I use the build. I'm working on it though, and I really want to upload it & get it linked tonight. I'm still in the process of experimenting some with a few builds in Spvp, some dealing heavier damage than others. I've linked the main ones i'm playing with now in the OP.

  • Bezerker.2379Bezerker.2379 Member ✭✭✭

    @kornfanxxx.9143 said:

    @Bezerker.2379 said:
    Having run with Jenzi for quite a bit in [love] and then getting blown up by him the other night, I approve this message. :P

    you sure know how to make a guy blush bezzie.

    Flattery will get me everywhere!

  • My issue with unravel, I'm an idiot I'm like "I'll go for F2/F2" but I forget I get the boon of the primary attunement, or I'm F1/F2 I want F1/F1 but I didn't look at CD that is <2sec and use Unravel. I always use it too late or too early compared to what I want.
    It's a good skill in a repeated combo, otherwise I can't use it when I need a particular skill.
    I think it would be a QoL to reduce all attunements swap to 50% for ~5sec, like the elite one, instead of reset CD only once.

  • is D/D weaver also playable with a full power marauder setup and no condi dmg? or is it too big of a missed opportunity?

  • @Padd.1479 said:
    is D/D weaver also playable with a full power marauder setup and no condi dmg? or is it too big of a missed opportunity?

    d/d weaver can be played as a weapon set with lightning rod & full power gear. your gonna need to run something like this:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFEQJAoYnMMA94i14C+MAM5ilGArILcFiC3V6PdoWoCEAihA-j1BFQB7Y/BAcCAuoSwF8AAUoyP1pHQfq/MPIAYCArqUVVVSBo6WL-w

    d/d weaver has tons of options to proc lightning rod, far more than scepter, staff, or sword. 6 on the weaponset (including lightning aura/transmute lightning aura), which are more convenient to access due to unravel letting you bypass the global attunement ICD for fast follow-up.

    be warned though. this build has roughly the same mobility as my cele version, but will take 1/4 of the hits to down. your gonna be squishy, your goal is to CC chain the opponent as fast or as many times as possible.

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAodncMAt4i94CG5CM5iFNAroN2DyBDBgFwB8+PXoX0A-jJRHABMfCAgZ/BkKDAwDAAA
    This is a pretty Troll Build that actually got me mere points away from Platinum. Condi D/F weaver. You don't have to worry about conditions if you keep your health up. And you keep your health up by use of barrier and dodges.
    Of course, you'll come across the problem that any type of dagger weaver has. Your sustain isn't good enough as Sword and the damage doesn't compensate enough for the loss of sustain. You can overpower opponents with fast attacks and PS, but if you don't finish them off fast, they'll kite. Without unravel or range attacks, it's tough to chase.

  • @Stallic.2397 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAodncMAt4i94CG5CM5iFNAroN2DyBDBgFwB8+PXoX0A-jJRHABMfCAgZ/BkKDAwDAAA
    This is a pretty Troll Build that actually got me mere points away from Platinum. Condi D/F weaver. You don't have to worry about conditions if you keep your health up. And you keep your health up by use of barrier and dodges.
    Of course, you'll come across the problem that any type of dagger weaver has. Your sustain isn't good enough as Sword and the damage doesn't compensate enough for the loss of sustain. You can overpower opponents with fast attacks and PS, but if you don't finish them off fast, they'll kite. Without unravel or range attacks, it's tough to chase.

    https://imgur.com/a/vkDD7at

    That was in full celestial gear, grinding stones was critting for 1k per tick, & i landed a 10.3k plasma burst & 7.6k burning speed. I used Fire/arcane/weaver & fire runes.

    Me & my guildie Brie found a TORK guild group outside of SMC on outer chilling by some catas hitting inner, we pre-stacked 25 might, & stealthed ourselves with the fountain buff, & jumped approx 12-15 of them. within the first second i landed those huge crits & brie landed some nice hits as well, we downed about 6-8 people almost within the first second of the fight, and within 20 seconds we had finished cleaning up. granted this was a more offensive variant of my build using smothering auras & cleansing sigil for clears, & packing approx 30% more total damage in modifiers & 150 bonus power - but still. crazy that something that has the same damage as burning speed crit people for 5 figure numbers and it not be churning earth or flame grab.

  • Thanks for sharing the build. It got me playing with D/D again and it's excellent. A couple changes for spvp made it even better:
    Drop water for fire. Yep! You actually get more clears from auras than water regen application if not taking weaver GM 2. Also you no longer need to blast to keep might up because of pyromancers puissance. You just shred things, it's super fun compared to sword also imo. So much more mobile.

    Better still was core d/d. Air, fire, arcane. Take lightning rod and swiftness runes. Nothing can kite you and you can kite everything. Chain rupts and immobs. It was especially fun vs spellbreakers and scourge, they simply don't expect to be stunlocked by a core ele ;)

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