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About in-game trolling...


Emily.6941

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Have you ever met an another player trolling in the game yet he/she still has a tons of explanation to proof that he/herself isn't/isn't wrong/etc?And the reason I don't want to argue with them isn't because I'm scared, I just don't want to start another war on the map chat. sigh....

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That's a very vague post, but in general there is no point in arguing with a troll unless you just want to have fun with them. The thing is, a troll is there to provoke. They often don't mean what they say but just say it to get a reaction. If you want to argue with them, that means you assume they can be convinced of their errors. That is not the case however. There is no arguing because they just get their kicks out of people's reaction.

Trolls are best ignored because as soon as people stop reacting to them, their fun is gone and they'll move on.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Emily.6941 said:Have you ever met an another player trolling in the game yet he/she still has a tons of explanation to proof that he/herself isn't/isn't wrong/etc?And the reason I don't want to argue with them isn't because I'm scared, I just don't want to start another war on the map chat. sigh....... How do you know you're right?

And you think I was right? (? . ?)

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@"Emily.6941" said:Have you ever met an another player trolling in the game yet he/she still has a tons of explanation to proof that he/herself isn't/isn't wrong/etc?And the reason I don't want to argue with them isn't because I'm scared, I just don't want to start another war on the map chat. sigh....

I have. Many times, actually. I don't know any formal name for it, but I call it argument trolling. I did it myself once, many years ago. I made a lengthy, intelligent sounding post to try and convince people that time isn't real. If you are witty and creative enough, you can make a convincing sounding argument for nearly anything. I've spent a great deal of time thinking about argument trolling, since it is really just epistemology. It sort of works like this:

A lot of people take things on faith. I don't mean in an "eating unleavened bread at the tabernacle" kind of way. I mean, we presume that other people in charge of all the minutia of our lives know what they're doing. I.E. whenever you move into a house, you don't check all of the studs, fire blocking, or trusses in fear that the house is poorly constructed. You just assume that the builders knew how to build it and did honest work, that the inspectors knew what to look for and did honest work, that the codes and regulations are comprehensive, fully effective, and assembled with your best interests in mind. Most people believe this so strongly not even a shadow of a doubt crosses their mind. And yet... you can never pinpoint exactly when a person comes to believe these things.

The scary secret to life is that no, most people don't know what they're doing, and they're just taking an educated guess on the issue at best. However I digress.

There are a lot of presumptions that sneak into our lives that we operate under. These philosophies that we take for granted guide a lot of our beliefs, even though we've never truly considered them. Or, we've adopted these ideas under fallacious reasoning, and we're unaware that it is fallacious (even if the idea itself is true). Sometimes it is just something upheld by society in general, and sometimes it is just something we "feel" and don't truly think about. Many times, we just give license to our feelings first and come up with a defense later/never. If someone is sufficiently motivated they can nitpick, forcibly misconstrue, make accusations, sneak in their own presumptions, and contort basic ideas into outlandish extrapolations. It is all to challenge another person's preconceptions (which then makes people angry), but it is not true reasoning. It simply wears the guise of reasoning to infuriate other people.

Argument trolls are usually indistinguishable from somebody who sincerely holds those ideas. There's nothing new under the sun, so there's a myriad of outside references for nearly any idea, no matter how outlandish. The only way to truly tell is that an argument troll will tend to be baity, and will double back if confronted instead of really staying the course. It's only after you've been pulled into the fight that you'll come to find that they aren't playing a fair game.


A good lesson in life is this: only fight if you love it. I'll explain why:

The hardest part about any debate is recognizing that the motives and win conditions are different from person to person. In this sense, a troll or a legitimately adamant person has the upper hand, because all they have to do is be stubborn. If you're trying to convince somebody else that they're wrong, then the ball is in someone else's court, so to speak. When it comes to accusations, or misconstruing statements, it is scary how easy it is to do, because there is only one truth but countless lies. It takes a great deal more effort to know and explain the truth than it does to just say something catchy, appealing, or inflammatory. To take the time example, it is easy to say something like "time is all relative and is just a trick of perception in your mind." Anyone can say it. But, to explain that no, our brains don't work like that and space-time is a real thing practically requires a college degree in physics. Very few people can prove or even explain the concept of space-time, let alone in a few zingers through the chat box.

So, whether you're dealing with a troll or somebody who is just adamant, ultimately engaging with them in a debate is useless, because their win condition is achieved by being stubborn. Engaging with them is just a waste of time, unless you actually like engaging with them. Then, they're just fun to deal with.

Generally an argument troll can be ignored safely. However, if you happen to notice that everything you say on the forum or in chat is always met with unusual levels of criticisms, no matter how innocuous, then you probably have a stalker. Be wary of those, because it takes a large degree of malice to follow somebody around arguing against everything they say.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Emily.6941" said:Have you ever met an another player trolling in the game yet he/she still has a tons of explanation to proof that he/herself isn't/isn't wrong/etc?And the reason I don't want to argue with them isn't because I'm scared, I just don't want to start another war on the map chat. sigh....

I have. Many times, actually. I don't know any formal name for it, but I call it argument trolling. I did it myself once, many years ago. I made a lengthy, intelligent sounding post to try and convince people that time isn't real. If you are witty and creative enough, you can make a convincing sounding argument for nearly anything. I've spent a great deal of time thinking about argument trolling, since it is really just epistemology. It sort of works like this:

A lot of people take things on faith. I don't mean in an "eating unleavened bread at the tabernacle" kind of way. I mean, we presume that other people in charge of all the minutia of our lives know what they're doing. I.E. whenever you move into a house, you don't check all of the studs, fire blocking, or trusses in fear that the house is poorly constructed. You just assume that the builders knew how to build it and did honest work, that the inspectors knew what to look for and did honest work, that the codes and regulations are comprehensive, fully effective, and assembled with your best interests in mind. Most people believe this so strongly not even a shadow of a doubt crosses their mind. And yet... you can never pinpoint exactly when a person comes to believe these things.

The scary secret to life is that no, most people don't know what they're doing, and they're just taking an educated guess on the issue at best. However I digress.

There are a lot of presumptions that sneak into our lives that we operate under. These philosophies that we take for granted guide a lot of our beliefs, even though we've never truly considered them. Or, we've adopted these ideas under fallacious reasoning, and we're unaware that it is fallacious (even if the idea itself is true). Sometimes it is just something upheld by society in general, and sometimes it is just something we "feel" and don't truly think about. Many times, we just give license to our feelings first and come up with a defense later/never. If someone is sufficiently motivated they can nitpick, forcibly misconstrue, make accusations, sneak in their own presumptions, and contort basic ideas into outlandish extrapolations. It is all to challenge another person's preconceptions (which then makes people angry), but it is not true reasoning. It simply wears the guise of reasoning to infuriate other people.

Argument trolls are usually indistinguishable from somebody who sincerely holds those ideas. There's nothing new under the sun, so there's a myriad of outside references for nearly any idea, no matter how outlandish. The only way to truly tell is that an argument troll will tend to be baity, and will double back if confronted instead of really staying the course. It's only after you've been pulled into the fight that you'll come to find that they aren't playing a fair game.

A good lesson in life is this: only fight if you love it. I'll explain why:

The hardest part about any debate is recognizing that the motives and win conditions are different from person to person. In this sense, a troll or a legitimately adamant person has the upper hand, because all they have to do is be stubborn. If you're trying to convince
somebody else
that they're wrong, then the ball is in
someone else's
court, so to speak. When it comes to accusations, or misconstruing statements, it is scary how easy it is to do, because there is only one truth but countless lies. It takes a great deal more effort to know and explain the truth than it does to just say something catchy, appealing, or inflammatory. To take the time example, it is easy to say something like "time is all relative and is just a trick of perception in your mind." Anyone can say it. But, to explain that no, our brains don't work like that and space-time is a real thing practically requires a college degree in physics. Very few people can prove or even explain the concept of space-time, let alone in a few zingers through the chat box.

So, whether you're dealing with a troll or somebody who is just adamant, ultimately engaging with them in a debate is useless, because their win condition is achieved by being stubborn. Engaging with them is just a waste of time, unless you actually like engaging with them. Then, they're just fun to deal with.

Generally an argument troll can be ignored safely. However, if you happen to notice that everything you say on the forum or in chat is always met with unusual levels of criticisms, no matter how innocuous, then you probably have a stalker. Be wary of those, because it takes a large degree of malice to follow somebody around arguing against everything they say.

Yeah... I get what are you saying... That's why I tend to ignore it instead of fight them. But in the same time, it also gets me feel so angry because of how inconsiderate they are just to make fun of people. Sigh....

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Heh. Last night I was starting a new key farmer in Queensdale, and trying to figure out how #2 skill on mesmer scepter worked. Every time I summoned a worm from the farm with the wormholes, one of a small group of rangers would one-shot it with a longbow from behind me before I hit it. I assumed they were newish and clueless and possibly trying to help, rather than just attempting to annoy the kitten out of me, so I went to figure out the scepter elsewhere. (After all, I also try to share kills on that sort of heart when I can. And I was being slow, it was one of those skills where you have to hit the button twice for the damage, and my brain wasn't grasping that.) A little while later, in the bandit cave, I heard someone assuring someone else that 'there's no such thing as kill stealing in this game, everybody helps each other out.' Don't know if it was one of the rangers explaining/excusing themselves, or someone responding to somebody else's complaints about them. Still wondering if I was being trolled.

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@"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:A little while later, in the bandit cave, I heard someone assuring someone else that 'there's no such thing as kill stealing in this game, everybody helps each other out.' Don't know if it was one of the rangers explaining/excusing themselves, or someone responding to somebody else's complaints about them. Still wondering if I was being trolled.

By 'kill stealing', I think they are referring to when one person fights a mob down to low health and then another swoops in to take the killing shot. In some games, this would give them some of the XP, maybe even most of it, or a share of the loot when it dies. In GW2, you get full credit/loot for helping kill something, whether or not you did all the damage. In that sense there is no 'kill stealing' in GW2. It IS possible however to 1-shot something someone else targeted, or in your case even summoned. That's a rare thing to see, partly because usually you can't kill a mob with 1 shot. Those rangers were being dicks for sure.

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I enjoy a good troll myself.. usually someone will ask a question in chat and i'll give them a completely different answer to the one they want but an answer that's technically true and add a little :P smiley to the end or something so they'll know i'm just playfully teasing ^^

I usually help out the players I tease after just cause I enjoy it :D

I do see the occasional troll in the game though but in all honesty i've never seen anything genuinely malicious or meanspirited.Funny enough when the map chat goes full crazy I often see lots of other players join in with the crazy because it's fun.. thus leading to some hilarious laughs XD

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@Biff.5312 said:

@"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:A little while later, in the bandit cave, I heard someone assuring someone else that 'there's no such thing as kill stealing in this game, everybody helps each other out.' Don't know if it was one of the rangers explaining/excusing themselves, or someone responding to somebody else's complaints about them. Still wondering if I was being trolled.

By 'kill stealing', I think they are referring to when one person fights a mob down to low health and then another swoops in to take the killing shot. In some games, this would give them some of the XP, maybe even most of it, or a share of the loot when it dies. In GW2, you get full credit/loot for helping kill something, whether or not you did all the damage. In that sense there is no 'kill stealing' in GW2. It IS possible however to 1-shot something someone else targeted, or in your case even summoned. That's a rare thing to see, partly because usually you can't kill a mob with 1 shot. Those rangers were being kitten for sure.

Nah its more like you waiting for this named mob to spawn for your quest.

When it spawns another guy swoops in and hit it first making it belong to them and useless to you so then having to wait for the next spawn at witch point another guy could swoop in and tag it making you wait longer.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:A little while later, in the bandit cave, I heard someone assuring someone else that 'there's no such thing as kill stealing in this game, everybody helps each other out.' Don't know if it was one of the rangers explaining/excusing themselves, or someone responding to somebody else's complaints about them. Still wondering if I was being trolled.

By 'kill stealing', I think they are referring to when one person fights a mob down to low health and then another swoops in to take the killing shot. In some games, this would give them some of the XP, maybe even most of it, or a share of the loot when it dies. In GW2, you get full credit/loot for helping kill something, whether or not you did all the damage. In that sense there is no 'kill stealing' in GW2. It IS possible however to 1-shot something someone else targeted, or in your case even summoned. That's a rare thing to see, partly because usually you can't kill a mob with 1 shot. Those rangers were being kitten for sure.

Nah its more like you waiting for this named mob to spawn for your quest.

When it spawns another guy swoops in and hit it first making it belong to them and useless to you so then having to wait for the next spawn at witch point another guy could swoop in and tag it making you wait longer.

It is possible for a Ranger or something to kill steal in Gw2 but only with trash mobs.I've done it myself a few times (not intentionally) using my LB4 skill to knock an enemy away as someone else lunges at it causing them to miss entirely while my follow up attack crits and kills it before the other player can land a hit costing them the loot and exp they would have got..

It's not a particularly big deal in Gw2 but a small group of Rangers (and possibly other classes) could potentially band together and actively play keep away from another player and stop them getting kills and loot but I find it highly unlikely anyone in Gw2 would waste their time harassing someone like that.

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@Teratus.2859 said:

I've done it myself a few times (not intentionally) using my LB4 skill to knock an enemy away as someone else lunges at it causing them to miss entirely while my follow up attack crits and kills it before the other player can land a hit costing them the loot and exp they would have got..

Incidentally, try not to use your knockback unless: a) you are taking melee damage and need to use it; b) as cc to reduce a break bar; c) no one else is fighting the same thing.

Nothing more annoying than rangers knocking mobs away from other players' aoe and melee damage. I wouldn't call it kill stealing but it is definitely irritating.

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@Biff.5312 said:

I've done it myself a few times (not intentionally) using my LB4 skill to knock an enemy away as someone else lunges at it causing them to miss entirely while my follow up attack crits and kills it before the other player can land a hit costing them the loot and exp they would have got..

Incidentally, try not to use your knockback unless: a) you are taking melee damage and need to use it; b) as cc to reduce a break bar; c) no one else is fighting the same thing.

Nothing more annoying than rangers knocking mobs away from other players' aoe and melee damage. I wouldn't call it kill stealing but it is definitely irritating.

As a ranger main, I totally support this.

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@Biff.5312 said:

I've done it myself a few times (not intentionally) using my LB4 skill to knock an enemy away as someone else lunges at it causing them to miss entirely while my follow up attack crits and kills it before the other player can land a hit costing them the loot and exp they would have got..

Incidentally, try not to use your knockback unless: a) you are taking melee damage and need to use it; b) as cc to reduce a break bar; c) no one else is fighting the same thing.

Nothing more annoying than rangers knocking mobs away from other players' aoe and melee damage. I wouldn't call it kill stealing but it is definitely irritating.

I run a LB Ranger main so most of the time I use it when running around is either to knock an enemy away from me to avoid damage or to push one further away for extra damage.I don't play with others often, mostly a solo player.LB knockback doesn't matter too much in group play as most things have breakbars now and can't be knocked around, I do use it sparingly when dealing with trash in groups though.. usually to knock a mob away from a downed player or to knock them into AoE or a mob of other players.

I'd say i'm pretty good with it overall though the occasional mistake does happen.I'm no noob who keeps messing up pulls etc though :PI've been running LB Ranger for a long time ^^

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There is no reason to be scared, you can go to war if you like. You can also tell them you are done with them if they keep "trolling" and leave the war again. Most of them like a good argument. So long as you feel like continuing the argument u should, and stop when it doesn't feel good anymore.

I usually stop when they don't listen to what you tell them, and maybe ill give them a little remark or two in the sweet spot you know, for good measure.

Oh damn, i thought you said you were scared, well nevermind then ;)

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@Emily.6941 said:Have you ever met an another player trolling in the game yet he/she still has a tons of explanation to proof that he/herself isn't/isn't wrong/etc?And the reason I don't want to argue with them isn't because I'm scared, I just don't want to start another war on the map chat. sigh....

I do encounter them way too often. Depending on what topic you are on, the number has drastically increased over the years. It is not really the act of trolling itself what is so disturbing. It is mostly that no matter how peaceful your approach is, there is a constant risk for you to be marked as an evil and intolerant creature, who wants to limit the possibilities and freedom of all players. While you are trying to do the exact opposite. Very frustrating.

However most of them use the same method by now, the ultimate argument. It is a special phrase that turns every individual opinion into an opinion-dictating, intolerant behavior. Using your point of view against yourself. I have not figured out how to counter it yet, but it is easier for me to see whether my opponent is about to pull this joker-card or not.

Normally the discussion starts with a question of a random person or the troll himself. You give an answer according to your opinion and personal situation, while the troll starts arguing, leading into the opposite direction. He then taunts you with more or less ineffective arguments, to make sure you burn out all your good stuff. You will write/say a lot of things in very short time. Once he realizes you are done, he will tell you that you are a very repressive person who believes that only his opinion is correct and not tolerate alternative opinions. = You are the arch enemy of free speech and opinions in general, because you do not tolerate his point of view. Looks pretty dumb and easy to counter, but is a very nasty trap. If you engage into this taunt, you are almost defeated. In the final step, he will just point out that his explanation makes the most sense (in terms of efficiency or rationalism) and that every player can decide for himself what path he wants to use, what truth he wants to believe, but definitely not a tunnel-viewed opinion like yours. At that point, every word you say will be turned against you, check mate.

When it happens the first time, most people are just paralyzed and confused. Most do not realize what happens. The trolls want you to give up and resign. So they can play and manipulate the crowd as they want.

Conclusion: Learn to separate the trolls from the normal players, do not engage into their taunts. Aka don't feed the trolls. Sounds easier than it is.

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@Biff.5312 said:

I've done it myself a few times (not intentionally) using my LB4 skill to knock an enemy away as someone else lunges at it causing them to miss entirely while my follow up attack crits and kills it before the other player can land a hit costing them the loot and exp they would have got..

Incidentally, try not to use your knockback unless: a) you are taking melee damage and need to use it; b) as cc to reduce a break bar; c) no one else is fighting the same thing.

Nothing more annoying than rangers knocking mobs away from other players' aoe and melee damage. I wouldn't call it kill stealing but it is definitely irritating.

The smh ones (and I've seen this fairly often) are the ones who use the knockback attack, then run into melee range with the mob to continue the LB autoattack.

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