[Hall of Chains raid] Dhuum greens — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Hall of Chains raid] Dhuum greens

That mechanic concept is amazing, but the reality is terrible.

Not for the difficulty on itself, but for the:
1) RNG of orbs
2) TERRIBLE hitbox while on midair
3) the unforgiving low timer is a deadly combo with point 2. Why no extending it a bit for normal mode?
4) absence of any visual information about what's happening in the room (really we have to use taco & external tools for timers?).

On my BS pov that always (have to) do G1, that's not a skill check, and that's not funny.

Just to works with fantasy about improvements...
It's a static pattern, so why doesn't the green pop early with a global message like "Reaper of somewhere is beginning his ritual soon, protect him" with a marker on him 10 seconds earlier ? (just as example).

Also, why no 10-sec early information for the greater mark ? (like "Dhuum is channeling power for his big bad greater mark. Be ready!")

I don't see many post about that. Maybe i'm the only one that expect rework on this boss.

My 2 cents

Comments

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Tweaking dhuum greens would have made the encounter much more accessible for raiders but I'm sure a lot of other players would disagree here with me. I liked w5 but compared to the others it's far more annoying in terms of rng (Desmina, Dhuum greens) which results in fewer people willing to play it.
    But I'll stop complaining, raiding in this game was fun but at the moment - and I don't think it'll become better again - I'm bored of the challenging content namely fracs and raids.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭

    It's not that hard to remember it xd only hard thing for me with greens are lags, or low fps, outside of that it's all good

  • Wing 5 is fine leave it alone.

  • Avelynn.2691Avelynn.2691 Member ✭✭
    edited January 22, 2019

    Eh, a lot of the complaints apply to many existing PvE fights. I don't know why ANet can afford voice acting for every random line out in the open world, but won't implement audio or visual cues to help people since the majority of the community considers fractals and raids to be difficult.

    Much better than submitting to the "easy mode pls" crowd, right.

    The fact that TACO exists to trivialise certain fights should be an embarrassment. Honestly, I wish more fights were less "memorise this" like Sabetha and more like Soulless Horror or Matthias that allows more focus on the action mechanics part of GW2. On your end though, the Reaper greens spawn clockwise around the room so between the fight timer, your debuff timer and watching others go, you should be able to keep track of them with practice.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    @Avelynn.2691 said:
    Eh, a lot of the complaints apply to many existing PvE fights. I don't know why ANet can afford voice acting for every random line out in the open world, but won't implement audio or visual cues to help people since the majority of the community considers fractals and raids to be difficult.

    Much better than submitting to the "easy mode pls" crowd, right.

    The fact that TACO exists to trivialise certain fights should be an embarrassment. Honestly, I wish more fights were less "memorise this" like Sabetha and more like Soulless Horror or Matthias that allows more focus on the action mechanics part of GW2. On your end though, the Reaper greens spawn clockwise around the room so between the fight timer, your debuff timer and watching others go, you should be able to keep track of them with practice.

    Their are some audio cues. But I guess some people play without sound so I don't know how much more sound cues wouldhelp

  • @yann.1946 said:

    @Avelynn.2691 said:
    Eh, a lot of the complaints apply to many existing PvE fights. I don't know why ANet can afford voice acting for every random line out in the open world, but won't implement audio or visual cues to help people since the majority of the community considers fractals and raids to be difficult.

    Much better than submitting to the "easy mode pls" crowd, right.

    The fact that TACO exists to trivialise certain fights should be an embarrassment. Honestly, I wish more fights were less "memorise this" like Sabetha and more like Soulless Horror or Matthias that allows more focus on the action mechanics part of GW2. On your end though, the Reaper greens spawn clockwise around the room so between the fight timer, your debuff timer and watching others go, you should be able to keep track of them with practice.

    Their are some audio cues. But I guess some people play without sound so I don't know how much more sound cues wouldhelp

    Talking about stuff like Sabetha saying "Burn, burn!" or Matthias grunting before he vaults. Slothasor's tantrum doesn't sound like he's bringing down the ceiling on us or whatever it's meant to be.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    @Avelynn.2691 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Avelynn.2691 said:
    Eh, a lot of the complaints apply to many existing PvE fights. I don't know why ANet can afford voice acting for every random line out in the open world, but won't implement audio or visual cues to help people since the majority of the community considers fractals and raids to be difficult.

    Much better than submitting to the "easy mode pls" crowd, right.

    The fact that TACO exists to trivialise certain fights should be an embarrassment. Honestly, I wish more fights were less "memorise this" like Sabetha and more like Soulless Horror or Matthias that allows more focus on the action mechanics part of GW2. On your end though, the Reaper greens spawn clockwise around the room so between the fight timer, your debuff timer and watching others go, you should be able to keep track of them with practice.

    Their are some audio cues. But I guess some people play without sound so I don't know how much more sound cues wouldhelp

    Talking about stuff like Sabetha saying "Burn, burn!" or Matthias grunting before he vaults. Slothasor's tantrum doesn't sound like he's bringing down the ceiling on us or whatever it's meant to be.

    And stuff like the reapers saying Dhuums gaze falls on me or dhuum saying (I forget what he says) for chains

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    I just wish the fight timer in raids in general could be.... bigger... without having to increase size of the whole interface. But well....

    Im pretty certain spiders and orbs together have a soft cap. So its not quite as rng. If you regularly kill spiders, then orbs are kinda easy, because theres enough up there spaced nicely. If you only kill spiders en masse then you get about 10-20sec later "mass spawn" of orbs, and only a handful of orbs the other times.

    But thats just a subjective observation of a dhuum green2 kiter.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2019

    @BaLzA.8902 said:
    That mechanic concept is amazing, but the reality is terrible.

    Not for the difficulty on itself, but for the:
    1) RNG of orbs

    It is not completely RNG there is a relation with killing the spiders iirc

    2) TERRIBLE hitbox while on midair

    It is but you can learn it. If you learn the quirks of the hitbox you can get it without much issue.

    3) the unforgiving low timer is a deadly combo with point 2. Why no extending it a bit for normal mode?

    As long as you do not get screwed by the orb placement it is actually ok.

    4) absence of any visual information about what's happening in the room (really we have to use taco & external tools for timers?).

    You can learn the timing or print out the dulfy table to have at your side. All mechanics spawn at very specific times. You can easily expect it if you know the timing. And there is an audio cue. The reaper shouts just before the green appears. You can help each other on voice with that as well. You know the green come every 30 seconds. Why not expect it and run to the green 10 seconds early yourself.

    On my BS pov that always (have to) do G1, that's not a skill check, and that's not funny.

    Just to works with fantasy about improvements...
    It's a static pattern, so why doesn't the green pop early with a global message like "Reaper of somewhere is beginning his ritual soon, protect him" with a marker on him 10 seconds earlier ? (just as example).

    Also, why no 10-sec early information for the greater mark ? (like "Dhuum is channeling power for his big bad greater mark. Be ready!")

    Then the mechanics become basically useless. That would make a boss encounter into a "simon says" game.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Greens are fine nowadays, used to be worse

    First person to reach 35,000 and 36,000 AP.
    killproof.me/proof/kEyr

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019

    I think it is ok too, but.. if increase 2 extra seconds that will make 400+ ping players better.

    with dhuum green.. you need to move straight near centre and then face out in opposite direction of the orb path to collect them face on, not side way to catch them.

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
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  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2019

    @BaLzA.8902 said:
    3) the unforgiving low timer is a deadly combo with point 2. Why no extending it a bit for normal mode?

    I strongly strongly disagree that they should have a longer timer for normal mode vs cm orbs. I just think something like that should be consistent. Raids are about challenge, but when things feel inconsistent they are frustrating. A challenge which has consistent predictable mechanics, allows players to be beaten but in a way that feels fair.

    @BaLzA.8902 said:
    4) absence of any visual information about what's happening in the room (really we have to use taco & external tools for timers?).
    It's a static pattern, so why doesn't the green pop early with a global message like "Reaper of somewhere is beginning his ritual soon, protect him" with a marker on him 10 seconds earlier ? (just as example).

    I agree that a visual indicator should exist. Maybe a mark above the reapers head which moves from reaper to reaper to indicate which one is next for greens.

    @BaLzA.8902 said:
    Also, why no 10-sec early information for the greater mark ? (like "Dhuum is channeling power for his big bad greater mark. Be ready!")

    From the perspective of someone stacked on dhuum, I think this mechanic is fine, and the telegraph gives a fair amount of time to begin dodging outwards. However, my only real complaint in this mechanic is that the kiter basically is isolated and playing a mini game. And if the kiter forgets to never stand on a reaper, they can put the group in an essentially unwinnable position by perfectly covering a reaper (although the group might not die for another 30 seconds or so). I say can, because the chances of the kiter being targeted is only about 1/10 .

    So there is basically this random mechanic that might wipe the group, but it often won't wipe the group until a while after it has been failed.

    Last thing I would add; get rid of the pre-phase (or make it a one time thing). It makes practicing dhuum cm sooooo boring.

  • Iris Ng.9845Iris Ng.9845 Member ✭✭✭

    Doing green for Dhuum trainings for two straight weeks now and I agree with extending the timer for 2 more seconds. I could only get it consistently 3 out of 4 times, and the time that I failed, I died hitting the fifth orb. The placement and number of orbs are really inconsistent. As someone said, you need to regularly control the number of spiders, etc. It's a really obscure thing to figure out or even verify. I'm not surprised most groups attribute the orb part for RNG. At the current state, it's too unforgiving when compounding with the hitbox issue.

    Even the cannons at Sabetha have a marker on the minimap. I don't understand why it's not the case for Dhuum fight.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2019

    well iris.. increase timer for 2 sec basically is a nerf because everyone disregard you have high ping or not, you have 10 sec timer to pick up orbs. the thing with high ping is, sometimes you can still miss the orb even you are collecting it face to face of its path. high ping players just have suck it up and be perfect. so if they increase timer to 2 second, it is a good nerf. and make it less of a pain or group punishment base on 1 man performance.

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
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  • mazut.4296mazut.4296 Member ✭✭✭

    Practice is the key here. It's not that bad.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    The greens are badly designed just as KC orbs are. They should never have collisions require server-side processing, it just makes the whole thing ultra annoying. Why they don't change it is beyond me since CA orbs are more or less fine for some reason (my guess is : they aren't but a straight line makes it seem so). However, it's also not hard to get used to it, just play pretending that you have lag even if you don't, and wait for the big orb to pass through you. For the other orbs, confidently run close to where their center would be in just a few ms (e.g run through their core just a bit towards the light pillar) and they will count, even if they only count after you're already reaching the next one.

  • Iris Ng.9845Iris Ng.9845 Member ✭✭✭

    At this point a Dhuum raid success rides or dies depending on the three players doing green circles. People will just suck it up and wipe if one of those three die. Everyone just hates this anxiety - instilling mechanics that they proactively avoid it. Then I thought a DPS refusing to do cannons at Sabetha was bad, this is on another whole level of dependence and disengagement. Can't say it a good design.

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