Why majority of WvW players stopped giving feedback. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why majority of WvW players stopped giving feedback.

Warlord.9074Warlord.9074 Member ✭✭✭

I feel like this is very constructive feedback here. The biggest problem with this game are the matchups and the server pairings, yet taking about them is against the rules. Not sure if this is the proper word to use but it is paradoxical or a oxymoron and it triggers the entire WvW community and all of the players who play this game and its why no one wants to post of these forums, to ever give any feedback.

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  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @viniebc.9568 said:
    maybe because the devs don't care about wvw anymore

    Wait, was there a time when developers care about WvW?
    I have been playing for 7 years and we have not had a major update that made you said "WOW this game is great"!
    The only reason I keep playing WvW is because I like to kill people and make them rage when they send me salt PM.

    I love the salt! That is the only reason I keep playing WvW.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭

    If I had to read this forum as a developer I'd instantly quit my job. This forum isn't good at making suggestions or "helping" developers making the game better.

    • open Blackgate
    • buff my class because I lost vs. X
    • The hammer meta is bad / the pirate ship meta is bad / the condi meta is bad
    • my class takes way more skill than X, so change Y

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why would they listen to us when other than the vote to bring back Desert as RBL all we've done is kitten on their work (Desert BL, EotM, Guild WvW upgrades, Siege changes, any attempt to shake things up like no downstate weekend, etc)?

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jeknar.6184 said:
    I'm pretty sure people are just tired of feeling ignored...

    ^this.

    It's enough to look around the forums or Reddit and log in to compare. Some people even put in effort to make suggestions in really lengthy posts that also get ignored. They may receive thumbs up from the community, but you can tell how much we as a community matter to them.

    Only money talks.

    There's:

    • very little feedback from the devs
    • no tangible results to their claims
    • no public test server like in other games

    ...and many more things that I won't bother listing because what was previously quoted applies.

    So I wonder,

    why people still stick around? I keep saying this, and I believe it's the one thing that may make a difference - to see population decline by people quitting the game.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    I feel like this is very constructive feedback here. The biggest problem with this game are the matchups and the server pairings, yet taking about them is against the rules. Not sure if this is the proper word to use but it is paradoxical or a oxymoron and it triggers the entire WvW community and all of the players who play this game and its why no one wants to post of these forums, to ever give any feedback.

    Even well intentioned match up threads devolve into nonconstructive qq and insults. That’s why there is a rule against them. Also, the devs are working on a new match up system based off of feedback and need, so players should post in that thread knowing the change is coming at some point.

    There is constructive feedback all over the forums. The problem, especially in the wvw and spvp sections, is that decent threads get buried by the massive amounts of junk posts and whining.... Also, wvw and spvp receive the fewest updates so it’s easy to run out of topics for players to discuss.

    Edit- https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Inappropriate-Forum-Topics

    "Over time, the WvW Sub-forum has seen a growing number of posts about game worlds, or servers. No matter how well-intentioned the posts may start out, two kinds of threads soon sink into negativity and unconstructive commentary:

    • Requests to re-open a particular server
    • Requests to adjust the Glicko ratings for a specific server

    To increase the value of these forums for players and devs alike, and to keep the conversations constructive, we’re going to disallow these two kinds of threads and posts. We ask for your cooperation in not creating or contributing to threads or posts on these subjects in the future. Thanks very much."

    "Some months ago, we asked forum members to not create or engage in threads requesting the reopening of a server or the adjustment of Glicko ratings for a specific server. We explained why at the time, but a little more information and an expansion of our request seems in order at this time.

    Server Reopening Requests: Worlds reopen most often due to the natural ebb and flow of players, which impacts the number of play hours on a given world. If a world reopens, it is usually because players or guilds changed worlds, players have stopped playing on that world, or, rarely, because we made an overall adjustment to world capacity. We do not reopen servers upon request and ask that you not post such appeals.

    Thread about Worlds: While we appreciate “world pride,” quite a few threads about game worlds become unnecessarily contentious and negative, and we need to close those. Sometimes the mods use the term “matchup thread” when taking action. Yet you should know it’s not the matchup that’s the problem, it’s the unpleasant comments or tone. I’ll work with the moderators to help them make closures, warnings, and infractions clearer.

    • An example of such a thread is here. As you can see, the thread included several insults. If you want to bash a world or a player, do it in the game!

    Glicko Resets: The devs don’t reset a Glicko rating upon request, and resets are not based on perceptions or opinions but on factual data derived from the game info itself. We’ve seen understandable confusion when a reset takes place shortly after someone posts a request thread, or when a reset did not happen even though someone requested it. In order to avoid that kind of confusion, we ask that players not submit Glicko reset requests.

    • Here’s an example of such a thread. Again, the thread became unpleasant and the initial request wasn’t in line for action, anyway.

    Arguing World Links: The devs make world linking decisions after on a neutral review of data, using algorithms, and based on their best judgment. If you want to discuss your opinions about specific world linkings, you’re welcome to do so. If you have questions, my best advice is to pose your questions in a conversational (not combative) way, because sometimes a dev will be able to provide some information, such as here. However, as a general rule, ArenaNet employees simply do not have the time that would be required to answer individual questions or debate a world linking topic. They do read the forums, however, and will review your constructive feedback on the subject.

    I hope these additional details and explanations will help everyone understand our desire for communication coupled with our need to set realistic standards for discussions and forum topics."

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:
    Why would they listen to us when other than the vote to bring back Desert as RBL all we've done is kitten on their work (Desert BL, EotM, Guild WvW upgrades, Siege changes, any attempt to shake things up like no downstate weekend, etc)?

    Some of the feedback for those areas have been toxic, and yes, quite off-putting.

    But I’d also like to point out some details on those areas as well;

    • Downstate was well received by half of posters who commented in the forums about it. Like other areas of the forum, but particularly the PvE section, there were people that were upset. Look at the general discussion section for the complaints about both the new living story, AND the farming changes to Istan.
    • EoTM. The complaints for EOTM have centered around giving it the same rewards as WvW. People have been able to vote with their feet by not playing it. While it had rewards, it was heavily played by people leveling toons, and farming WxP. Again, see ‘Istan farm’ and it’s subsequent changes.
    • Siege changes: the addition of shield generators was met with a mix of responses, both good and bad. The siege damage changes was met with, again, a mix of responses. Some people liked ACs being nerfed, some people wanted them buffed etc. (I.e. see any balance change in the last 6-7 years in the general discussion threads). The threads weren’t toxic. Some people voiced they wanted it to go further.
    • Guild ‘upgrades’. I quoted upgrades as when the guild hall process was released, MANY guilds were frustrated and angry that the buffs they had ALREADY unlocked for WvW (+5 primarily) was locked behind a significant gold grind. Guilds starting after that change don’t know what the frustration really was. Added to the significant profession changes that HoTs brought about, and the next section, it truly pushed a lot of guilds away from the game.
    • Finally: Desert Borderland (DBL). They asked people to trial the map prior to release. People did, and wrote lengthy posts with honest critiques of problems with the map, (which have since been changed btw) offered suggestions to improve it, and it was the released with none of those suggestions put in place on the map. It truly pushed people from the map and from WvW. The middle event made the game unplayable for many players while it triggered, causing many to dc. I won’t rehash the verticality challenges and the barriers to movement that required siege just to get through to get to towers, nor that lack of strategic placement of all of the structures.

    And yet, I don’t believe the developers have given up on the mode, nor stopped working on it, but when there are 4 posts with an Anet answer in the general discussion page (not including closed posts) and 0 posts with an Anet post in the WvW page, it creates the impression that WvW is greatly underserved.

    Honestly? I think they provide appropriate feedback, and when taken from a perspective that there are over 5 times as many posts in the General discussion section, I would expect more Dev involvements thatnsection.

    Perception becomes hard to overcome.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    While matchup threads may not have been the nicest part of the forums, they were people talking about the game, as played, while it was happening. Is toxic worse than abandoned? Is nice, safe and empty mission accomplished?

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    I just give feedback on class balance stuff on the pvp forum because at least they listen to that "sometimes" and the effects trickle into wvw. ie XYZ nerfed by XXX in Pvp/WvW only.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People stopped giving feedback because everyone knows all WvW Dev time is absorbed by Alliances.

    A real danger is people saying they are quitting and WvW is dead, a precursor to the cancellation of Alliances. A self-fulfilling prophecy sadly.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Blackarps.1974Blackarps.1974 Member ✭✭✭

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    If I had to read this forum as a developer I'd instantly quit my job. This forum isn't good at making suggestions or "helping" developers making the game better.

    • open Blackgate
    • buff my class because I lost vs. X
    • The hammer meta is bad / the pirate ship meta is bad / the condi meta is bad
    • my class takes way more skill than X, so change Y

    This all sounds like complaints made in the last few months. Most of the people who used to give solid feedback gave up years ago. When you go unheard/ignored for so long, why bother signing in to give further feedback? That's when posts like the ones your mentioning start to surface...because there is nothing else for people to talk about.

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019

    @googel.3278 said:
    Guild wars 2, the epitome of failure. Dressing your characters with ugly skins is content nowadays.

    For a "Epitome of Failure" the game survived quite a few "GW2 killers" that people called over and over... You know, I've been hearing "GW2 is dead" for over 6 years now.

    Is the game perfect? Not by a longshot. But unfortunely it still better than the vast majority of the garbage we have out there... If only Anet actually polished the jewel they been negleting for most part...

    Ferguson's Crossing Mithril Squire (Rank 5001) - PvP Phoenix (Rank 72) - 30k Achievement Points
    Exalted Kawagima, Calamis Fatima, Hanna Flintlocke, Suzuhara Suzuka, Sally Furious Ant, Sabetha Deadeye, Bjarl of Souls, Lilian Mistwalker, Kelvena Riverstream, Zallha Wildhunt

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My feedback?

    I want my Medi Scrapper back!

    ; sad;

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @googel.3278 said:
    Guild wars 2, the epitome of failure. Dressing your characters with ugly skins is content nowadays.

    If only Anet actually polished the jewel they been negleting for most part...

    I think the only time they will turn their eyes to WvW will be when they pull up their statistical dashboard and see how many stopped playing entirely. And if that amount will create a major downward spike on their graphs, they will be like "a-ha, something just happened".

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There were a lot of feedbacks, conflicting feedbacks. It is devs' job to identify the feedbacks that matters.
    The players have said much and if devs are incapable of identifying what important, then, too bad. People gonna quit and move on.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2019

    \'Why majority of WvW players stopped giving feedback.'?

    Someone beautifully said it, 'WvW is like a dead flower. Why continue watering it?'

    'What does complaint do to something that is already dead'?

    dead-plant.jpg

  • StrawHat.2639StrawHat.2639 Member ✭✭✭

    We did get better rewards, a reward track like PvP, a way to get ascended and legendary gear from wvw besides rgn rings/chest all good positives.
    Before HoT, the game was still kinda neglected without any of the above but vanilla stats and vanilla game debut made it fun for fights of diff. sizes. Today a lot of dancing around when fighting; can be real long in big fights.

    Anet did take a lot of feedback just prior to HoT so we got a new map and other stuff but the backlash and so forth kinda killed it.
    (I didn't agree necessarily with whom Anet took feedback for the new map when they beta tested with livestream players of all levels...anyways.)

    Theres no point now since Raymond confirmed there isn't room for any add-ons besides their part-time work of alliances.
    (If Ray does glimpse my post in all the post posted: when you get alliances finished yous would need to separate balance from pve somehow and give the strongest server/alliance the red bl during each matchup.)

    Cheers your neighborhood squirrel

    Sanji
    Lost last glimmer of enthusiasm for WvW

    Anet dragon has finally defeated the
    **WvW WarBorn **
    He's over 7000!
    Havok lover with a sprinkle of Zerging

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2019

    These days I only play the game 1-2 times per week, pretty much exclusively wvw.
    The game has issues, the biggest probably being population imbalance (my server bounces to T1 every other week and those BQ blobs are something fierce,) but I make the most of it. I can understand the desire for updates, but its obvious this gamemode is the lowest priority of the developers and tends to have the fewest bodies dedicated to it. All we can do is make the most of it -- or move on if you're tired of it.
    I don't play the game enough to feel personally offended when my personal favourite gamemode doesn't get the most attention.

    I do feel the moderation here can be a little hefty at times (I actually had a post removed in the spvp forum once for putting it out there that people were whining too much) but the alternative of letting the place run rampant with insults and inter-server banter would be even worse. This is the official forum for an online game, those sorts of posts will turn new people away from the community and thus the game, regardless of the post's origin.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • Arctisavange.7261Arctisavange.7261 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2019

    @Kilo.2539 said:
    When people are complaining that means they're interested. It's when they stop complaining you know they've given up.

    Fixed.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2019

    I stopped giving suggestions before the forum change i think,and yes its because i feel ignored.Not by the community because ive had good responses and people seemed to like some of the suggestions made.I played alot,still do but not as often anymore,i deeply cared about the game and it getting better in whatever way.I knew the game,i knew class balance,i knew what could be improved without breaking the game. Besides ive seen dozens of other people make great suggestions aswell for pvp/wvw/class balance/qol changes,but they never get a reponse from anet and nothing ever happens with the suggestions being made.Making suggestions for anet is a waste of time.Maybe not so if youre in direct contact with a dev,but through the forums it is.

    I also remember a time we had a Suggestions section on the forum,the removal of that entire section said enough.

  • It's because the game mode if perfect. The only other thing it needs is free transfers for bandwagon guilds.

  • @Warlord.9074 said:
    I feel like this is very constructive feedback here. The biggest problem with this game are the matchups and the server pairings, yet taking about them is against the rules. Not sure if this is the proper word to use but it is paradoxical or a oxymoron and it triggers the entire WvW community and all of the players who play this game and its why no one wants to post of these forums, to ever give any feedback.

    You know if a Dev would randomly pop into a WvW related thread, say "we hear you, we're working on it." the WvW community would be a lot more lively and a lot less negative.

    However, due to you know, toxic people being toxic. A lot of the devs in GW are afraid of the GW2 community, and they have every right to be.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Israel.7056 said:
    have to let people be mean and insulting and say mean words and that's apparently a bridge too far for Anet.

    Guess all those school anti-bullying campaigns are way off the mark then, eh?

    If someone needs to be mean and insulting to get on with life, they should stop playing video games and seek therapy.....immediately.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2019

    @xZombieTaco.5809 said:

    @Warlord.9074 said:
    I feel like this is very constructive feedback here. The biggest problem with this game are the matchups and the server pairings, yet taking about them is against the rules. Not sure if this is the proper word to use but it is paradoxical or a oxymoron and it triggers the entire WvW community and all of the players who play this game and its why no one wants to post of these forums, to ever give any feedback.

    You know if a Dev would randomly pop into a WvW related thread, say "we hear you, we're working on it." the WvW community would be a lot more lively and a lot less negative.

    However, due to you know, toxic people being toxic. A lot of the devs in GW are afraid of the GW2 community, and they have every right to be.

    Sure wish every workplace had a safe space for when customers are mean

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • @Xterra.6172 said:
    majority of wvw players stopped giving feedback because they finally came to the realisation that GW2 is a PvE game and understood that their feedback leads nowhere unless it's directed at PvE content. Just look at the GW2 subreddit. If someone posts WvW or PvP related content, it gets removed or downvoted. That's an indication that the game caters to the PvE'ers of the community because it shows that the overwhelming majority of the the playerbase are PvE focused players.

    The WvW players that remain are the ones that understand this but still find it fun to pug around with friends, have a good time, and not take it seriously.

    +1 to that. Since the game's release, 9 out of 10 changes are designed for pve. PVE got so many new maps, stories, new modes like fractals and raids and we still can't fix one issue with populations balance that was there from the start. PvE got masteries, mounts and we get ... gliding. They got few Story Seasons and we get ... few merchants. What is worse, in my opinon most of the specializations had negative impact on the wvw mode due to the fact they were designet for pve. In theory wvw players face the highest risk in this game cause we face actually unknown enemy - in term of skills, build, numbers. Yet we get probably the worst reward for the victory. And its not like these are new isuess - they were there since the launch. So what 's the point in participation in the discussion without some sort of the feedback when it's like talking to the wall for the last few years? Classess like daredevil with 1 shot potential should be excluded from this without any discusion, yet Anet doesnt see the problem with the fact that players die while being out of the combat, without any possibility to defend themselfs (cause thats 1 shot 1 kill is - 1 hit with stealth leaves you without opportunity to block, dodge etc). In my guild 90% of veteran wvw players already left the game. Those who are still active wvw players stayed for the social reasons and we are extremly casuals - no builds, no pressure on classes etc. We are done with hardtryin'. The moment there will be some new offer with fresh wvw-like experience we will leave gw2, but in fact anet won't cry after us - clearly we are not their target clients.

  • Kirin.7306Kirin.7306 Member ✭✭✭

    other games do pvp much better. why torture yourself?

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2019

    @Kirin.7306 said:
    other games do pvp much better. why torture yourself?

    Other games do singleplayer and coop better too, why are we even playing GW2?

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Israel.7056 said:
    have to let people be mean and insulting and say mean words and that's apparently a bridge too far for Anet.

    Guess all those school anti-bullying campaigns are way off the mark then, eh?

    If someone needs to be mean and insulting to get on with life, they should stop playing video games and seek therapy.....immediately.

    Yes they are way off the mark. Bullying is an important part of human socialization, particularly for men. But that's a different discussion.

    No they shouldn't seek therapy, they should realize that they are human after all and being mean and insulting and talking trash is a lot of fun for humans because it provides a safe and healthy outlet for aggression. Aggression which is present in everyone particularly in the modern high stress low rest work environment.

    Our modern society has become so emasculated culturally that people have forgotten that we are still a species of violent cruel walking talking social warrior apes and that the impulse to kill and destroy the enemy whoever he/she is is not ever going away, it just has to be channeled into healthy avenues like exercise and play rather than unhealthy avenues like real physical violence and property destruction.

    Most of the fun of gaming isn't the winning and losing, it's watching other people react to themselves and others winning and losing, hence the popularity of platforms like twitch.

    The drama that this game used to create between players and guilds and even entire servers was magical and was one of the main reasons people got so committed to the outcomes of the matchups in the first place. Almost all of that is gone and a lot of that has to do with getting rid of the matchup threads where that great drama took place.

  • @Israel.7056 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Israel.7056 said:
    have to let people be mean and insulting and say mean words and that's apparently a bridge too far for Anet.

    Guess all those school anti-bullying campaigns are way off the mark then, eh?

    If someone needs to be mean and insulting to get on with life, they should stop playing video games and seek therapy.....immediately.

    Yes they are way off the mark. Bullying is an important part of human socialization, particularly for men. But that's a different discussion.

    No they shouldn't seek therapy, they should realize that they are human after all and being mean and insulting and talking trash is a lot of fun for humans because it provides a safe and healthy outlet for aggression. Aggression which is present in everyone particularly in the modern high stress low rest work environment.

    Our modern society has become so emasculated culturally that people have forgotten that we are still a species of violent cruel walking talking social warrior apes and that the impulse to kill and destroy the enemy whoever he/she is is not ever going away, it just has to be channeled into healthy avenues like exercise and play rather than unhealthy avenues like real physical violence and property destruction.

    Most of the fun of gaming isn't the winning and losing, it's watching other people react to themselves and others winning and losing, hence the popularity of platforms like twitch.

    The drama that this game used to create between players and guilds and even entire servers was magical and was one of the main reasons people got so committed to the outcomes of the matchups in the first place. Almost all of that is gone and a lot of that has to do with getting rid of the matchup threads where that great drama took place.

    the matchup threads and that old website, gw2wvw.net i think? i miss it.

    Xterra/Marqeese[Ark]

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xterra.6172 said:
    the matchup threads and that old website, gw2wvw.net i think? i miss it.

    Me too. That was the golden age of WvW.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swamurabi.7890 said:
    I played
    I posted
    I cared
    I no longer play

    +1

    ' Words are easy. It's conving the heart that is hard '

  • Grim West.3194Grim West.3194 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2019

    The majority of RvR players left GW2 soon after launch. They saw that WvW isn't RvR, it's just a cheesy transfer game.

    The only people left are either pip farmers, or like those that infest BG (garbage players who stack to win).

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2019

    Vocal people are kinda gone from WvW anyways. Open raids have mostly turned from community improving and communicating into 1-man "commander" shows, or even sometimes even worse: "egoboosting" guild shows. People are just not smart enough anymore to realise that if they throw in comment/report or two, serious or jokingly, the community would feel much less distant.

    Feedback would require people still being passionate about the game and I guess that just died out.

    I feel like these 2 things are connected but thats how every game becomes when it ages, people either regress to staying quiet or didn't have imagination from the start.

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander/hard carry
    Making Desolation great again/Alt somewhere
    Diamond Legend

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