WvW Class Balance - Skill into WvW

This is one of the topics that has been bothering me for 3-4 years . I play this game since the release and i grew up playing WvW and raiding . Since the release of Heart of Thorns the game has changed so much that i dont even recognise it . Most of the old hardcore WvW players are gone , new players came in shifting the metas and adjusting the builds accordingly to their needs . Anet implemented new stats and in their efforts to bring people back into WvW they made a terrible mistake . The stats that people were and still running are made to make their lifes easier , but WvW was never meant to be easy . The condi meta changed the way me and many other WvW players see the game . WvW is not fun to play anymore , backliners with toughness as a main stat , full sustain frontliners etc. This kind of fights are ''sustain wars'' and the skill that is required to play these builds couldnt be any lower . I am not saying that i am the best player and i can judge everyone else , but having talked to other players everything leads up to that conclusion . Guilds nowadays raid with 25-30 people , it used to be 15-20 . Now i know many people have different opinions about this but back in the day 30 people used to be a small blob . I think that it is at least disrespectful when a guild says that they raid with 30 people .

Thats all from me .

well...back when i was young. i saw major guilds raid with 30+. The original gvgs were 20-25. Then the small epeen nerds that couldn't manage more than 5 people negotiated for 15. Then called it a scrim when they lose or only 8 core showed up. If anything, we can argue, people skills have deteriorated from 4 years ago. not so much class balance and wvw skill.

Guilds raid with 25-30? O.oWhat tier are you in, T0?

Very few guilds guilds seem to exceed 20 people and only community guilds (which is like 1 per server at best) can gather 30+. Most guilds are more like 10-15 nowadays - far smaller than the guilds that used to run every day on every map.

I also find it interesting that you say "the condi meta changed the way me and many other WvW players see the game". There is no condi meta. Hasnt been for what, 6 months now? More? It's 90% power now. Zerging is all power bombs and in roaming only a few niche condi builds remain (condi scourge and condi mirage mostly, but even necros have shifted to power reapers or similar roflstomp builds).

@Stelios.7014 said:This is one of the topics that has been bothering me for 3-4 years . I play this game since the release and i grew up playing WvW and raiding . Since the release of Heart of Thorns the game has changed so much that i dont even recognise it . Most of the old hardcore WvW players are gone , new players came in shifting the metas and adjusting the builds accordingly to their needs . Anet implemented new stats and in their efforts to bring people back into WvW they made a terrible mistake . The stats that people were and still running are made to make their lifes easier , but WvW was never meant to be easy . The condi meta changed the way me and many other WvW players see the game . WvW is not fun to play anymore , backliners with toughness as a main stat , full sustain frontliners etc. This kind of fights are ''sustain wars'' and the skill that is required to play these builds couldnt be any lower . I am not saying that i am the best player and i can judge everyone else , but having talked to other players everything leads up to that conclusion . Guilds nowadays raid with 25-30 people , it used to be 15-20 . Now i know many people have different opinions about this but back in the day 30 people used to be a small blob . I think that it is at least disrespectful when a guild says that they raid with 30 people .

Thats all from me .

You sir are very badly misinformed.

@Stelios.7014 said:This is one of the topics that has been bothering me for 3-4 years . I play this game since the release and i grew up playing WvW and raiding . Since the release of Heart of Thorns the game has changed so much that i dont even recognise it . Most of the old hardcore WvW players are gone , new players came in shifting the metas and adjusting the builds accordingly to their needs . Anet implemented new stats and in their efforts to bring people back into WvW they made a terrible mistake . The stats that people were and still running are made to make their lifes easier , but WvW was never meant to be easy . The condi meta changed the way me and many other WvW players see the game . WvW is not fun to play anymore , backliners with toughness as a main stat , full sustain frontliners etc. This kind of fights are ''sustain wars'' and the skill that is required to play these builds couldnt be any lower . I am not saying that i am the best player and i can judge everyone else , but having talked to other players everything leads up to that conclusion . Guilds nowadays raid with 25-30 people , it used to be 15-20 . Now i know many people have different opinions about this but back in the day 30 people used to be a small blob . I think that it is at least disrespectful when a guild says that they raid with 30 people .

Thats all from me .

Are you upset the game has more gear choices outside of the pre-hot zerker meta that most builds ran?

Also about this... “Anet implemented new stats and in their efforts to bring people back into WvW they made a terrible mistake.”

No, the devs didn’t specifically add new stats to bring players back to wvw. They introduced new stats and elite specialization roles to increase build diversity for the entire game and help move away from the “not healthy for the game” zerker meta they made.

I remember guilds taking up whole maps by themselves....And guilds that couldn't making up this little sideline thing that a dev literally told them was violating the game mode

@Stelios.7014 said:This is one of the topics that has been bothering me for 3-4 years . I play this game since the release and i grew up playing WvW and raiding . Since the release of Heart of Thorns the game has changed so much that i dont even recognise it . Most of the old hardcore WvW players are gone , new players came in shifting the metas and adjusting the builds accordingly to their needs . Anet implemented new stats and in their efforts to bring people back into WvW they made a terrible mistake . The stats that people were and still running are made to make their lifes easier , but WvW was never meant to be easy .

new stats were for diversity.

The condi meta changed the way me and many other WvW players see the game . WvW is not fun to play anymore , backliners with toughness as a main stat , full sustain frontliners etc. This kind of fights are ''sustain wars'' and the skill that is required to play these builds couldnt be any lower .

dude, you come Minimum of 12 months too late. condi meta is dead. and current one shot meta is on same Level unhealthy and skillless.

I am not saying that i am the best player and i can judge everyone else , but having talked to other players everything leads up to that conclusion . Guilds nowadays raid with 25-30 people , it used to be 15-20 . Now i know many people have different opinions about this but back in the day 30 people used to be a small blob . I think that it is at least disrespectful when a guild says that they raid with 30 people .

Thats all from me .

some guilds raid with 30 , other with 15. and now?

some blobs run with 20 other with 60.

some roamers run solo, others ganking in 5 man Groups.

numbers imbalance was ever a Thing in wvw. that is the reason it is not called structured pvp. more numbers = less skill needed, yes but everyone can decide by its own how he want to Play.

i just dont see in your post anything About class balance, like your title mentioned, or what anet made wrong...

Guilds with 30 people? Haven’t seen one in over 2years.

Condi Meta? That was around start to mid HoT.

@Stelios.7014 said:This is one of the topics that has been bothering me for 3-4 years . I play this game since the release and i grew up playing WvW and raiding . Since the release of Heart of Thorns the game has changed so much that i dont even recognise it . Most of the old hardcore WvW players are gone , new players came in shifting the metas and adjusting the builds accordingly to their needs . Anet implemented new stats and in their efforts to bring people back into WvW they made a terrible mistake . The stats that people were and still running are made to make their lifes easier , but WvW was never meant to be easy . The condi meta changed the way me and many other WvW players see the game . WvW is not fun to play anymore , backliners with toughness as a main stat , full sustain frontliners etc. This kind of fights are ''sustain wars'' and the skill that is required to play these builds couldnt be any lower . I am not saying that i am the best player and i can judge everyone else , but having talked to other players everything leads up to that conclusion . Guilds nowadays raid with 25-30 people , it used to be 15-20 . Now i know many people have different opinions about this but back in the day 30 people used to be a small blob . I think that it is at least disrespectful when a guild says that they raid with 30 people .

Thats all from me .

Only KISS in eu raid with 30+ people, havent seen any others with more than 15 max. And condi meta has been dead for more than 6 months. Stat diversity is also always great, adds some spice to an otherwise neglected mode. Otherwise it would be a boring pvp amulet kind of thing. Not sure what the issue is...

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Stelios.7014 said:This is one of the topics that has been bothering me for 3-4 years . I play this game since the release and i grew up playing WvW and raiding . Since the release of Heart of Thorns the game has changed so much that i dont even recognise it . Most of the old hardcore WvW players are gone , new players came in shifting the metas and adjusting the builds accordingly to their needs . Anet implemented new stats and in their efforts to bring people back into WvW they made a terrible mistake . The stats that people were and still running are made to make their lifes easier , but WvW was never meant to be easy . The condi meta changed the way me and many other WvW players see the game . WvW is not fun to play anymore , backliners with toughness as a main stat , full sustain frontliners etc. This kind of fights are ''sustain wars'' and the skill that is required to play these builds couldnt be any lower . I am not saying that i am the best player and i can judge everyone else , but having talked to other players everything leads up to that conclusion . Guilds nowadays raid with 25-30 people , it used to be 15-20 . Now i know many people have different opinions about this but back in the day 30 people used to be a small blob . I think that it is at least disrespectful when a guild says that they raid with 30 people .

Thats all from me .

The only reason they would be slightly better than that random zerg is a larger portion of veterans but in practice a random zerg can often be matched by a raid guild half their numbers.

Which incidently is what the argument was about, yes - there isnt any guilds half the size of a zerg anymore, lol.

@Voltekka.2375 said:Only KISS in eu raid with 30+ people, havent seen any others with more than 15 max. And condi meta has been dead for more than 6 months. Stat diversity is also always great, adds some spice to an otherwise neglected mode. Otherwise it would be a boring pvp amulet kind of thing. Not sure what the issue is...

That's cause EU needs to be properly united like the 1940s.