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how do people decide that mirage is op? (it's not op, a defense of the cyber bullied class)


incisorr.9502

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seems like these days the tension has risen due to a certain popular streamer's videos and all the peons are in an uproar with their pitchforks with the hope of getting lord arena net to once and for all completely obliterate and delete the spec mirage and their reasoning? It's " overpowered" . When asked to present arguments and when they fail to present arguments or even to understand how mirage skills even work they resort to the argument"" it's not fun to play against "" . Well guess what - i don't have fun playing against all sorts of cheesy bs. Fun is subjective, i have fun playing vs CONDI mirages. (not power, power is a sea animal)

I started off with warrior but due to mass QQ some mechanics were reworked and the class stopped being fun for me so i rerolled to elementalist which fell off cus anet really hates elementalists and they keep trying to make some tank elementalist instead just a proper mage nuker, then i rerolled to thief but i didn't like its role, then i rerolled to necro and to ranger and to engi and so on i ended up playing all classesmirage is the last class i rerolled to as a main (except rev which is the one class ive never played and most likely never will) . I actually like mirage, finally found a class that can do hybrid damage that doesn't insta die to necros or thieves. I like the concept and i like the gameplay but for some reason lower elo people won't shut up about how op the class is when in reality it's simply not true

Mirage was the least represented class in the top rankings for the last 2 seasons on average and in general the class isn't that popular on higher eloMirage isn't the best duelist in the game any more due to repeated nerfs and it loses to other classes which makes it obsolete as a duelistMirage doesn't have the best dps in the gameMirage isn't the hardest to kill class in the game

there are 2 types of condition miragetype 1 is with staff which gives access to more sustain and protection and vigor and type 2 is without staff which has more forceful damage

type 1 - staff mirage - is outdated now because boonbeast exists. Staff projectiles are slow, staff doesn't have burst damage, staff doesn't have instant damage (or forceful damage as i call it cause you're not pressing anything) staff is mainly a on-point-utility/defensive weapon which is not oppressive. I guess why people cry about it is because of the auto attack/ illusion auto's bounces which apply conditions which are actually a huge source of damage for staff but it's slow . Staff's mirage cloak can fail easily because of how its programmed and it often just goes past the target

type 2 - no staff mirage - no protection, usually no chaos so no vigor either which means you're incredibly squishy and can be punished super easily. You can and will get oneshot by random power bursts. Core guard standing on one place and using his own self heal and smite condi at the right moment with retaliation on 3 illusions can result in 18k damage in less than a second on me while he heals fully and that's a real thing. The upside is that it has more instant/forceful damage and in general can be oppressive but can also be shut down. It's high risk high reward. It also has mixed dmg so its harder to counter for some cause its both power and condi but at the same time it's much worse vs actual tanks cus you're splitting your dmg and they have easier time dealing with it.

The reason why i'm making this thread is because mirage is the only class i like playing right now because i like playing condi and because necro is garbage since it has no stealth or mobility and it's too slow and those 2 are the only classes that work as condi since you destroyed/nerfed everything else cus some people don't understand the concept of condition removal.Mesmer already got nerfed way too many times - pretty much in EVERY SINGLE PATCH since last year's march which is ridiculous no matter how you look at it. The class is far from " the best class in the game ". It's not even top 3 best class in the game

the most influential classes in the game are the ganker classes because of how ridiculous their burst dmg is right now and how uncounterable it is, if anything POWER MIRAGE is better than condi mirage because power damage has gotten way too high but the only difference is that sPvP is about point holding and power mirage's dmg is lower in close range and it also has lower sustain dps and that's why it looks like its worse but it's actually better ,it's simply a different role and people don't judge it as a different role which is their mistake

so how do you decide that mirage is op if both high elo play rate and high elo ranking statistics don't support this claim

it's not that mirage is overpowered, it's that mirage is a condi build that actually works and if other condi builds werent so severely nerfed for no reason they would be the same but anet keeps nerfing everything due to mass outcry because people can't put condi removal instead of quickness utilities and somehow that's the game's fault

the class stopped being OP after the first 2 nerfs in 2018 which is now more than half a year ago.

Everything a mirage does has counter - conditions have counter, its slow attacks have counter, illusions have counter mirage lacks a lot of things like unblockable attacks or stability boon or protection in almost all builds and none in utility skills. You know what has no counter? A class that can teleport with a 10k+ casted damage that needs no line of sight and can go up/down through elevations, through walls, with an unblockable attack that can't be reacted to because it's instantbasically revenant or for the most part core guard and thief

and that's why there are on average more of those 3 classes in top of the ladder than any other classes, because they are easy to execute with and hard to counter due to no cast time no line of sight teleports tied to a big burst damage nuke

btw looking at low elo people's opinions on how to balance a game when they clearly can't play the game is like going to the local village to interview farmers on how a surgery should be done because you don't want to listen to actually trained people for how a surgery should be done and that's where they all resort to the argument that " fighting mirage is not fun"
well fighting core guard is not fun either, fighting thief is not fun either, fightin revenant is not fun either, fighting bunkers is not fun either, fighting full zerker classes is not fun either

how bout that? fun is subjective, i have fun when i fight condi mirages even if you don't. I'll agree that the class has toxic mechanics but compared to the rest of the game it's nothing out of place. The game has a lot of issues and a lot of toxic mechanics and if you're going to talk about them at least talk about all of them and not just the ones you don't like. Gw2 pvp could be improved a lot and that does include changing mirage but at the same time it includes changing a bunch of other classes and mechanics which are just as big and even bigger issues than mirage is

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The reason why i'm making this thread is because mirage is the only class i like playing right now because i like playing condi and because necro is garbage since it has no stealth or mobility

  • are you smoking on something dude? First, Necro is strong as kitten in team fights and is balanced because it can die. Second, condi Mirage sucks because it can do too much while rolling your face on the keyboard. Third, Power mesmer is stronger, but I believe its not thought of as op because you actually need to know how to play it to do well (much like revenant). And last but not least, you list how everything the mirage has is counterable, but so is everything when you look at it isolated by itself. But when you combine all these forces of damage evasion, burst damage from those evasions, constant condi pressure, the ability to reset on a whim, and the ability to take most roles on the battlefield while simultaneously needing at least 2 people to kill you (if the mirage is semi decent), then yeah, I can't counter like 6 different things with one build while you just have to evade my initial burst or my 1 time high application of burn or whatever.
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@"incisorr.9502" said:seems like these days the tension has risen due to a certain popular streamer's videos and all the peons are in an uproar with their pitchforks with the hope of getting lord arena net to once and for all completely obliterate and delete the spec mirage and their reasoning? It's " overpowered" . When asked to present arguments and when they fail to present arguments or even to understand how mirage skills even work they resort to the argument"" it's not fun to play against "" . Well guess what - i don't have fun playing against all sorts of cheesy bs. Fun is subjective, i have fun playing vs CONDI mirages. (not power, power is a sea animal)

I started off with warrior but due to mass QQ some mechanics were reworked and the class stopped being fun for me so i rerolled to elementalist which fell off cus anet really hates elementalists and they keep trying to make some tank elementalist instead just a proper mage nuker, then i rerolled to thief but i didn't like its role, then i rerolled to necro and to ranger and to engi and so on i ended up playing all classesmirage is the last class i rerolled to as a main (except rev which is the one class ive never played and most likely never will) . I actually like mirage, finally found a class that can do hybrid damage that doesn't insta die to necros or thieves. I like the concept and i like the gameplay but for some reason lower elo people won't shut up about how op the class is when in reality it's simply not true

The lengths you have to go to in order to defend mirage should cause you to re-evaluate your opinion. You come off as defensive, dismissive, and childish in the MANY posts you're making on the subject. Step back, take a chill pill, and try approaching it from a different perspective.

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@"incisorr.9502" said:Mirage was the least represented class in the top rankings for the last 2 seasons on average and in general the class isn't that popular on higher elo

1.) representation is absolutely pointless in balance dicussion. representation just say whether People like to Play a class or not.balancing is About mechanics and their counters.2.) i still would like to see a serious source for this Information, is there any site inside the game that Shows the main classes of every Player in top 200 ranking? and plz dont come with "i see that and when i am playing…" because your own impressions on class representation are ever very subjective and not objective/not proved.

Mirage isn't the best duelist in the game any more due to repeated nerfs and it loses to other classes which makes it obsolete as a duelistMirage doesn't have the best dps in the gameMirage isn't the hardest to kill class in the game

on which Facts did you create your Statements here? on personal oppinion?

there are 2 types of condition miragetype 1 is with staff which gives access to more sustain and protection and vigor and type 2 is without staff which has more forceful damage

type 1 - staff mirage - is outdated now because boonbeast exists. Staff projectiles are slow, staff doesn't have burst damage, staff doesn't have instant damage (or forceful damage as i call it cause you're not pressing anything) staff is mainly a on-point-utility/defensive weapon which is not oppressive. I guess why people cry about it is because of the auto attack/ illusion auto's bounces which apply conditions which are actually a huge source of damage for staff but it's slow . Staff's mirage cloak can fail easily because of how its programmed and it often just goes past the target

just because another OP class can counter your class it doesnt mean your class is not OP.

type 2 - no staff mirage - no protection, usually no chaos so no vigor either which means you're incredibly squishy and can be punished super easily. You can and will get oneshot by random power bursts. Core guard standing on one place and using his own self heal and smite condi at the right moment with retaliation on 3 illusions can result in 18k damage in less than a second on me while he heals fully and that's a real thing. The upside is that it has more instant/forceful damage and in general can be oppressive but can also be shut down. It's high risk high reward. It also has mixed dmg so its harder to counter for some cause its both power and condi but at the same time it's much worse vs actual tanks cus you're splitting your dmg and they have easier time dealing with it.

so how do you decide that mirage is op if both high elo play rate and high elo ranking statistics don't support this claim

also here, would like to see the statistics by myself since i love statistics.<3

People claiming Mirage as Op is because Mirage is a very forgiving class.if you missplayed and got cc'd? no Problem, dodge will save you…if you moved badly and are out of Position? no Problem Pressing dodge and port out will save you…

how many dodge rolls you get? 1 every 5-7 seconds depending on gamemmode (wvw/spvp)

an ohh-shit-button on 5-7 sec cooldown? other classes have 60-90 seconds cooldown on those. that is 1 reason Mirage is OP.

2nd one is, even if you got outplayed by your Opponent, you dont just dodge and Escape, no, your class have the Option to instant counter spike opponents with one shot Bursts or 20 stacks confu and torment. so your own fail result in a nuke to your enemy.

Mirage allow Players to have insane Sustain by just Pressing dodge (=invul) + massive dmg (condi/power) + mobiltybefore Mirage doesnt loose at Minimum 1 of those Points it will remain OP. no class should have dmg+sustain+mobility at a very high Level in 1 build.

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@Mathias.9657 said:Nukes are the least used bomb, they are obviously harmless dude.

Actually there are a variety of different types of military explosives that have seen less use than nuclear weapons both in terms of testing and use in armed conflicts. Reported for posting disinformation. It's absolutely disgusting you'd mislead people like that..

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@Sampson.2403 said:So the question is if Mirage is oppresive for 90% of the skill bracket but not for the top 10%, does it need to be balanced or does everyone need to l2p?

I was honestly thinking this... The main argument is that mirage isn't OP or high in damage, yet, it still frustrates 90% of the player base.

It really has nothing to do with damage. The mechanics of mirage allows too much sustain (invuln, stealth, teleport, portal, lose targeting, etc). So much sustain, that the damage just has to be subpar in order to beat its opponents.

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I will only say one thing: evade while you are dazed stunned. Thousands of times I see people defending the mesmer just by saying "git gut", but the problem I have with the mesmer is not being able to play them against, the problem is that I do not see myself rewarded for having punished him, the power to perform several actions (like f1 , 2,3,4, and the evade) while you are stunned should not be able to, the other classes when they are stunned are very limited. The only people who do not complain about the mesmers are their own users and usually do not give a good image with the same excuse "l2p" :/

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