I am no Commander, I'm an Adventurer! — Guild Wars 2 Forums

I am no Commander, I'm an Adventurer!

TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited January 25, 2019 in Lore

Minor spoilers.

Just sharing a very personal opinion. I'm not talking about the commander tags here, but the character I play in the game and how I am referred as in the story.

First I will say this: I more or less understand why the GW2 team decided to call the player character "commander" and that I more or less understand the difficulty of the story writer to give a proper reference for the player character. Ex GW2-storywriter Jessica Price for example has been very clear about this difficulty of writing a story for the player character where every player character is different and how every player has a different feeling for his of her character. I understand this. Therefore, I'm not demanding changes or solutions, but I just like to express my feeling here.

I love the game, both GW1 and GW2 and I love the story as well. For me personally, it has been a adventure. I always love to play my character with the characteristics of my own personality.

In life, I tend to be a bit shy, cautious, protective, introvert. More a thinker than a doer. Not much of a leader. Maybe sometimes an example to others at best.
In the safety of the virtual world of Tyria, I like to imagine what I would be if I had the courage to go on an epic adventure. In my core, my character is still the shy boy, but with every step on his way he grew to be an adventurer and sometimes even a hero. But still, in his core just a timid guy. Just as I am.

In this role, I always find it to be unfitting to be referenced as "commander". My character Aranimda, just like my RL character, has nothing with the military and ranks and is everything but a military leader. He is more just a fragile person who grew to be above his own self in this epic adventure we are in. Yes, maybe a hero for, all he has done for Tyria and its peoples, Yes, immensely proud on all his achievements along the way, but not a commander.

In that account, I love how some of our recent PoF story steps allowed our characters to be defeated to death by a greater force than us and how character, after a dramatic defeat in the latest living world story, just is overpowered by emotions and does not now how to continue from here. I like how it shows some fragility as part of our characters and this is just exactly how I would feel myself.


-TheQuickFox and Aranimda

Ascalon Will Prevail!

GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page

Comments

  • Weindrasi.3805Weindrasi.3805 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2019

    I agree with you here! I have many characters, each with their own backstory and personality. Only three of those have actually served as pact commanders, and two are retired.

    My two mains for Living World are Kione, who is in fact the "Commander", and her friend/side-kick Asynda. Asynda is an old harlot who can defend herself with magic, but who has no real fighting skill or strength and who doesn't actually participate in most of the fighting. While Kione does the Commander stuff following the Living Story, Asynda is in the background gathering information and such (kind of like Canach without any battle skills).
    When I'm doing map exploration on Asynda and an NPC calls out "hey, Commander!", it's always a little bit jarring. Asynda's character is as far from being a Pact Commander as it gets.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Weindrasi.3805 said:
    When I'm doing map exploration on Asynda and an NPC calls out "hey, Commander!", it's always a little bit jarring.

    I am fairly sure "hey, harlot!" isnt a proper military rank.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    as an casual RPer i recomend the followig concerning this issue: ignore it

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Edelweiss.4261Edelweiss.4261 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Weindrasi.3805 said:
    When I'm doing map exploration on Asynda and an NPC calls out "hey, Commander!", it's always a little bit jarring.

    I am fairly sure "hey, harlot!" isnt a proper military rank.

    Darn. Guess I'm not suited to military life. :'(

  • Gern.2978Gern.2978 Member ✭✭

    I preferred what they did in seasons 1&2 where your guildmates all called you "Boss." Made more sense.

  • "Commander" is very fitting on the female Sylvari though, especially when she gets angry at someone in Verdant Brinks for distrusting all sylvaris.

  • @Gern.2978 said:
    I preferred what they did in seasons 1&2 where your guildmates all called you "Boss." Made more sense.

    No, that was worse. This is not the mafia and I still recall all the Season 2 threads asking:"Who are these people, and why do they keep calling me Boss?" For a charr, centurion is still on the table, but I'm not sure how a sylvari, norn, or human would be adressed.

  • TBF, anything other than you being the commander is your own RP (or a flash-back to earlier missions, if you never completed your personal story). The game can't really warp around the vision for your character that you have in your head, it can't read your mind.

    RP is all about ignoring what is going on in the game and creating your own story based on the setting between characters. So just do that!

  • TheOrlyFactor.8341TheOrlyFactor.8341 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aplethoraof.2643 said:
    TBF, anything other than you being the commander is your own RP (or a flash-back to earlier missions, if you never completed your personal story). The game can't really warp around the vision for your character that you have in your head, it can't read your mind.

    RP is all about ignoring what is going on in the game and creating your own story based on the setting between characters. So just do that!

    I think you can still have a Commander character and still be able to RP decently. Out of all of my characters, I have one dedicated P(act) C(ommander) character and I've done some stories and RPs that fill in stuff the actual story doesn't handle as well as give her more of a personality than the current story gives the PC.

    While the game has issues, the absolute worst thing about Guild Wars 2 has nothing to do with the game itself and everything to do with the community.
    Asura fanatic.
    World's largest Zojja fan.
    Illconceived Was Na fanboy.

  • Zania.8461Zania.8461 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nokkau.3120 said:
    "Commander" is very fitting on the female Sylvari though, especially when she gets angry at someone in Verdant Brinks for distrusting all sylvaris.

    Yeah because Jennifer Hale had plenty of practice of voicing commanders (ME trilogy Commander Shepard, SWTOR Trooper, etc).

    Seriously though, while one can roleplay PC with different backgrounds, I feel that ANet has very strong opinion on what the personality of the Pact Commander is. You can head canon almost anything, but it will likely clash with the way other NPCs treat you in-game. With the story this long, I am not sure they CAN do it any other way without greatly limiting player interactions with NPCs.

  • TheOrlyFactor.8341TheOrlyFactor.8341 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2019

    @Zania.8461 said:
    ...I feel that ANet has very strong opinion on what the personality of the Pact Commander is.

    I think the question regarding that is what that personality even is. I don't think Anet has ever officially said what that personality (or race, sex/gender, and profession) is supposed to be. My perspective is that Anet went for the most generic approach so that it's easier to write for considering the PC could be any race, sex/gender, and profession. Anything more detailed about the PC is left up to the player's discretion (i.e. head canons, stories, and/or RP) unless Anet comes right out and says "hey guys this is what we want the PC to be".

    If they were to do that, I agree that this would limit player interactions with NPC's but I'd also imagine many players would be upset because then the PC is no longer "their character" but just another NPC. Of course, I'm probably in the minority in that I never felt like the PC was my character since the start of LWS1 when a lot of the player choice found in Personal Story (yes, it was limited but there was still choices) went to the wayside for understandable reasons (it would take a lot of resources to replicate the choices and then the paths for each choice, then apply those for each race).

    This is why I broke down and made a dedicated "Pact Commander" character that (mostly) fell into the mold that Anet seems to have set up for the PC, even with that mold as vague as it is now. None of my other characters would have made the kind of decisions the Pact Commander character has made in the story.

    While the game has issues, the absolute worst thing about Guild Wars 2 has nothing to do with the game itself and everything to do with the community.
    Asura fanatic.
    World's largest Zojja fan.
    Illconceived Was Na fanboy.

  • Yes, "Commander" is really inappropriate when every time my character "commands" his subordinates to do something, he's almost always gets overridden. Or better yet, my character's so-called-subordinates will simply do whatever the heck they want ignoring all commands.

    My character don't really get to command anything. If I am the commander, I wouldn't send the Pact fleet into Maguuma Jungle in the first place. It's a bad strategical decision especially without any info about the enemy's anti-air capabilities. Total fleet annihilation is always the result of flying blind into hostile territory. So much for being a commander.

  • @Castigator.3470 said:

    @Gern.2978 said:
    I preferred what they did in seasons 1&2 where your guildmates all called you "Boss." Made more sense.

    No, that was worse. This is not the mafia and I still recall all the Season 2 threads asking:"Who are these people, and why do they keep calling me Boss?" For a charr, centurion is still on the table, but I'm not sure how a sylvari, norn, or human would be adressed.

    Valiant, Slayer, Hero, Savant.

    The problem is, now you're recording five lines instead of one. And that costs five times as much money for that one line.

    They could go by order - Magister, Lightbringer, Warmaster - but you're still doing 3 lines instead of 1.

    Commander, Boss, Eggbearer, Hey You. They're more multiracial. And since the PC was once a Commander ,they're always a Commander until demoted/promoted. Since they retired, they can't be demoted/promoted anymore.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Valiant, Slayer, Hero, Savant.

    Actually there Is still the second half of the Racial Story with mostly more awkward names. But i only remember a few
    Advocat of the crown
    Herald Of the Pale Tree
    Centurion

    Ofcourse that doent have any influence on the matter of Price

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2019

    @norbes.3620 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Valiant, Slayer, Hero, Savant.

    Actually there Is still the second half of the Racial Story with mostly more awkward names. But i only remember a few
    Advocat of the crown
    Herald Of the Pale Tree
    Centurion

    Ofcourse that doent have any influence on the matter of Price

    You only remember three because the other two - Slayer and Savant - didn't change. Which makes sense given we're not representing our leadership or getting promotions, as both the norn and asura are too individualistic for such.

    Herald of the Pale Tree and Advocate of the Crown were both temporary positions, effectively marking us as, well, advocates for the perspective leadership while dealing with Kellach and Mazdak. Once those threats were gone, we ceased to be in that position, thus going back to Valiant and Hero of Shaemoor from a racial perspective.

    Military ranks like Centurion (and Commander) are permanent though. So we don't get demoted to Legionnaire - we just promote someone in our warband to Legionnaire while we're a Centurion who's not leading multiple wardbands.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @norbes.3620 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Valiant, Slayer, Hero, Savant.

    Actually there Is still the second half of the Racial Story with mostly more awkward names. But i only remember a few
    Advocat of the crown
    Herald Of the Pale Tree
    Centurion

    Ofcourse that doent have any influence on the matter of Price

    You only remember three because the other two - Slayer and Savant - didn't change. Which makes sense given we're not representing our leadership or getting promotions, as both the norn and asura are too individualistic for such.

    Herald of the Pale Tree and Advocate of the Crown were both temporary positions, effectively marking us as, well, advocates for the perspective leadership while dealing with Kellach and Mazdak. Once those threats were gone, we ceased to be in that position, thus going back to Valiant and Hero of Shaemoor from a racial perspective.

    Military ranks like Centurion (and Commander) are permanent though. So we don't get demoted to Legionnaire - we just promote someone in our warband to Legionnaire while we're a Centurion who's not leading multiple wardbands.

    Just wanted to mention them cuz it's wracking my nerves every time when a new human pass those stories and it goes:

    "hey advocat of the crown, babout that advocat of the crown, about that advocat of the crown can we..."
    makes me wanna shout at These order members and logan :disappointed:

  • Urud.4925Urud.4925 Member ✭✭✭

    I've always thought that "commander" was simply an easy choice to avoid any gender issue. Although you're right, there are also other genderless words/titles that might be better. On the other hand we also have people complaining that during the story is Trahearne the main leader (although he's also a quite shy/introverted scholar) and we are just his assistant. It's hard to make everyone happy.
    Personally I'm quite fine, but I have to admit that that word is a bit of a burden to carry, since... "You know what, CCCOMMANDER?" (Braham you hurt me)

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    Yes, "Commander" is really inappropriate when every time my character "commands" his subordinates to do something, he's almost always gets overridden. Or better yet, my character's so-called-subordinates will simply do whatever the heck they want ignoring all commands.

    My character don't really get to command anything. If I am the commander, I wouldn't send the Pact fleet into Maguuma Jungle in the first place. It's a bad strategical decision especially without any info about the enemy's anti-air capabilities. Total fleet annihilation is always the result of flying blind into hostile territory. So much for being a commander.

    Maybe they are just saying it sarcasticly?

  • DaFishBob.6518DaFishBob.6518 Member ✭✭✭

    Well you could call yourself "Champion of Orr," "Outlander," "Poobah"... "Commander" is just what the pact mostly calls the player since that's the most well known title to them (thanks to Trahearne), even if the player is no longer actively part of the pact.

  • @Gern.2978 said:
    I preferred what they did in seasons 1&2 where your guildmates all called you "Boss." Made more sense.

    Yeah. I personally think "Boss" sounds a lot more personal and intimate.

    "My friend" is also another simple phrase I feel should be used more often by the B-Iconics. Kasmeer has a line in the episode PoF: Beast of War where she calls you "my commander". I thought that was pretty weird.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I doubt it's a coincidence that it has the same abbreviation as Player Character. Someone probably saw a dialog script and asked "what does PC stand for?", and thus, the title was born.

  • @Heraldusluminare.2946 said:

    @Gern.2978 said:
    I preferred what they did in seasons 1&2 where your guildmates all called you "Boss." Made more sense.

    Yeah. I personally think "Boss" sounds a lot more personal and intimate.

    "My friend" is also another simple phrase I feel should be used more often by the B-Iconics. Kasmeer has a line in the episode PoF: Beast of War where she calls you "my commander". I thought that was pretty weird.

    Maybe it's because of my culture, but doesn't "boss" come off as massively inappropriate?
    In a professional context, "Chef" is used as the informal address of your superior, and "Boss" is a family name. It can work for the undisciplined adventuring group that is Dragon's Watch, but even there adressing each other by name would make more sense.
    Likewise, your warband calls you Boss, but these people bunk together, train together and are expected to die together, so they'd be the small subset of people that address each other via first name*. My friend would be a good alternative.
    For all the orders, the Pact, the high legions, and to some extent Krytan society adressing the hero by their title is the best solution.

    *Now the problem here is technical rather than a narrative issue. Getting the names right would either require massive amounts of pre recorded names, or a text to speech function, which would have the thankless job of pronouncing "xXx_M4g3Ass4ss1n_xXx".

  • Gern.2978Gern.2978 Member ✭✭

    @Castigator.3470 said:

    @Heraldusluminare.2946 said:

    @Gern.2978 said:
    I preferred what they did in seasons 1&2 where your guildmates all called you "Boss." Made more sense.

    Yeah. I personally think "Boss" sounds a lot more personal and intimate.

    "My friend" is also another simple phrase I feel should be used more often by the B-Iconics. Kasmeer has a line in the episode PoF: Beast of War where she calls you "my commander". I thought that was pretty weird.

    Maybe it's because of my culture, but doesn't "boss" come off as massively inappropriate?
    In a professional context, "Chef" is used as the informal address of your superior, and "Boss" is a family name. It can work for the undisciplined adventuring group that is Dragon's Watch, but even there adressing each other by name would make more sense.
    Likewise, your warband calls you Boss, but these people bunk together, train together and are expected to die together, so they'd be the small subset of people that address each other via first name*. My friend would be a good alternative.
    For all the orders, the Pact, the high legions, and to some extent Krytan society adressing the hero by their title is the best solution.

    *Now the problem here is technical rather than a narrative issue. Getting the names right would either require massive amounts of pre recorded names, or a text to speech function, which would have the thankless job of pronouncing "xXx_M4g3Ass4ss1n_xXx".

    That definitely sounds like a specific cultural thing. I'm not sure what culture you're from but I've never heard of "Boss" being a family name nor "Chef" being used outside a restaurant's kitchen. But I can see how that would sound odd to you if that's the case in your culture.

    In the US, "Boss" is just an informal name for a leader. Sometimes it has derogatory connotations, but not always. And a "Chef" is the head of a kitchen, or another name for a cook.

  • @Gern.2978 said:
    That definitely sounds like a specific cultural thing. I'm not sure what culture you're from but I've never heard of "Boss" being a family name nor "Chef" being used outside a restaurant's kitchen. But I can see how that would sound odd to you if that's the case in your culture.

    In the US, "Boss" is just an informal name for a leader. Sometimes it has derogatory connotations, but not always. And a "Chef" is the head of a kitchen, or another name for a cook.

    Well, I know where the chef-kitchen connotation comes from, namely the french kitchen brigade, which is a form of highly organised cooking. The chef de cuisine (maitre de cuisine for master craftsmen) is the head of the kitchen, the sous chef his second in command. The word chef, however, comes from chief and refers to a superior. A "Chef de Bataillon" is a military commander, for instance.
    This was adopted into german in the 17th century and retained its meaning. As for Boss being a last name, have you ever heard of a company called Hugo Boss? He named that company the Mechanische Berufskleiderfabrik Metzingen. After his death, the company was renamed to commemorate its founder.
    As for Boss, this word has entered our language through american movies (The Godfather) and is generally associated with shady businessmen, if not outright criminals.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2019

    Interesting. On this side of the pond, it's just an informal address of deference, a term that acknowledges someone's authority (at least in the context of that specific moment), while still giving the speaker a culturally appropriate way to make it clear they won't take that authority too seriously or stand on formalities. (For that reason, it's also often used sarcastically, as a way to put superiors who're full of themselves in a position where they can't push back against perceived insubordination without losing face- that's the derogatory connotations Gern mentioned.) It's common in most relaxed work environments, especially blue-collar positions.

    In that context, it's a great fit for where the Commander stands now, as the leader of a loosely knit guild... although it wasn't so applicable at the time it was widely used, back when Dragon's Watch was a motley bunch of tagalongs that our hollow shell of a character hadn't developed any meaningful relationship with.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • Tiny Doom.4380Tiny Doom.4380 Member ✭✭✭

    @Castigator.3470 said:

    @Gern.2978 said:
    That definitely sounds like a specific cultural thing. I'm not sure what culture you're from but I've never heard of "Boss" being a family name nor "Chef" being used outside a restaurant's kitchen. But I can see how that would sound odd to you if that's the case in your culture.

    In the US, "Boss" is just an informal name for a leader. Sometimes it has derogatory connotations, but not always. And a "Chef" is the head of a kitchen, or another name for a cook.

    Well, I know where the chef-kitchen connotation comes from, namely the french kitchen brigade, which is a form of highly organised cooking. The chef de cuisine (maitre de cuisine for master craftsmen) is the head of the kitchen, the sous chef his second in command. The word chef, however, comes from chief and refers to a superior. A "Chef de Bataillon" is a military commander, for instance.
    This was adopted into german in the 17th century and retained its meaning. As for Boss being a last name, have you ever heard of a company called Hugo Boss? He named that company the Mechanische Berufskleiderfabrik Metzingen. After his death, the company was renamed to commemorate its founder.
    As for Boss, this word has entered our language through american movies (The Godfather) and is generally associated with shady businessmen, if not outright criminals.

    Referring back to the origins of words taken from one language into another is interesting but all borrowed words cease to reatin that original texture when adopted. "Chef" in English has no lingering military connotations; it's associated solely with cooking.

    Boss, on the other hand, has absolutely no connection to any family name. It derives from the Dutch "baas", meaning "master" and traces its usage in English back to the 17th Century. It's a somewhat vague term in modern English. In no way is it exclusive to "shady businessmen" or the Mafia. Any working person would be very likely to refer to their manager or supervisor as "the Boss", although sometimes it can mean someone of greater importance. It's often used ironicaly about friends, relatives or partners, too. It's generally seen as a friendly, informal sort of word, which I agree made it quite comfortable as an honorific for the Player Character.

    Rather than trying to find a word everyone agrees on, though, surely a better way to deal with the issue would be to write the dialog in such a way as to avoid having to use any honorific or title in the first place. How many times in a day do most of us call anyone by a title or name? Mostly we just look at people and speak and they know we are talking to them. Just avoid having characters initiate conversations out of direct eye-line and there you go.

  • Edelweiss.4261Edelweiss.4261 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:
    Interesting. On this side of the pond, it's just an informal address of deference, a term that acknowledges someone's authority (at least in the context of that specific moment), while still giving the speaker a culturally appropriate way to make it clear they won't take that authority too seriously or stand on formalities. (For that reason, it's also often used sarcastically, as a way to put superiors who're full of themselves in a position where they can't push back against perceived insubordination without losing face- that's the derogatory connotations Gern mentioned.) It's common in most relaxed work environments, especially blue-collar positions.

    I've heard "boss" used similarly in the southwestern part of the states, but it isn't super common. I sometimes use "chief" in a similar fashion. I'm not sure where I picked that habit up from.

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