We're never going back to Sun's Refuge

There is a built in flaw to the way ArenaNet is providing us with content. We can't ever reuse any of it. Because the zones aren't connected to the main maps in a free form way (even if there is a gate to the zone it has to be unlocked to use it,) we can't travel to the zone just because it exists, therefore it only exists if we've unlocked it. This means they can't ever link a previous map to a future chapter. Sun's Refuge is an even more extreme version of this because we went through a lot of trouble during that chapter to make it livable. Since they can't assume that a player has already played through all previous content, they can't assume Sun's Refuge is even functional, let alone unlocked, let alone part of a map that's been unlocked. Since they can't make that assumption, we can't expect to ever have new content there.

Yes the devs them selfs even stated this after the episode was released.

They could probably throw us into instance where Sun's Refuge is in functional state. I mean, a dude can buy a game today and unlock new episode and go punch dragon in the face, without even playing any of the previous story or content.

Indeed, it was only ever meant to be a one episode content piece.

I think they recognised our feedback tho, so they might repeat the idea again but one that evolves

Except when they do what they did with Roller Beetle Racing.

Good writing would have sent our Commander to an empty and lesser lit SR to cry in front the collection completed nest.

But effort like that, "It's overrated."

They've been creating single use content since the very beginning so It's not very surprising they still do.The only thing that changed is that now the content stays in the game instead of being shut down and thrown into a recycle bin after being used.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Except when they do what they did with Roller Beetle Racing.

Why that is only should take a moments thought:

Core maps are not overly time bound.Roller beetle racing isnt overly time sensitive, and barely connected to any story aspects.

@Haishao.6851 said:They've been creating single use content since the very beginning so It's not very surprising they still do.The only thing that changed is that now the content stays in the game instead of being shut down and thrown into a recycle bin after being used.

That seems like a fair summary, except for festivals, which now evolve.

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Except when they do what they did with Roller Beetle Racing.

The point wasn't the Roller Beetle Racing, but that they 'opened' a closed map in order to take advantage of Roller Beetle Racing.

That is not quite right.

The following stuff contains spoilers about Heart of Thorns, Living Story Season 3 and Living Story Season 4

It seems to me that it's an idea that they cut and decided, well, we made some assets... let's just put them in the game so we don't have to throw it all away and call it content.

We're never going back to Sun's Refuge

¯\(ツ)/¯

@Gehenna.3625 said:It seems to me that it's an idea that they cut and decided, well, we made some assets... let's just put them in the game so we don't have to throw it all away and call it content.

They actually commented on this in one of the AMAs: they intended from the start that it would only be associated with the one story, the one map. It was just meant as a fun way of keeping track of progress on the various achievements, and connecting Aurene to the various other figures in the story.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Except when they do what they did with Roller Beetle Racing.

Im not disputing what you said. Merely saying, that they only add to existing maps in specific occassions, with specific content.

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Except when they do what they did with Roller Beetle Racing.

Well we can't expect more, gifting LS Episodes for free at everytime would kill a good part of their income, gifting them at certain occasions is a good compromise imho.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Except when they do what they did with Roller Beetle Racing.

What map was closed? Or you mean because they gave Kourna away again to get more people into Beetles?

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:It seems to me that it's an idea that they cut and decided, well, we made some assets... let's just put them in the game so we don't have to throw it all away and call it content.

Yeah but being a life long skeptic, I always wonder if that's the whole story. It occurs to me that this is something they could've done a lot more with and maybe that was the original plan. All speculation of course but it wouldn't surprise me if it was actually intended to be more and then reduced to this for whatever reason. I mean, tell me what you think but it seems too elaborate for what it actually does and for just that one map that already has such limited replay value.

I mean after I found out I didn't like the requiem armor set I had no reason to go back there anymore. And for those who did like it I'm sure they got it mostly. It's sad cause the map design was good but it serves little to no purpose. Same with the new map actually. I love it but I haven't been back there after completing the story. I might if I ever want to get those weapons but I'm not sure yet whether or not I want pink dragon blood weaponry.

@Kal Spiro.9745 said:There is a built in flaw to the way ArenaNet is providing us with content. We can't ever reuse any of it. Because the zones aren't connected to the main maps in a free form way (even if there is a gate to the zone it has to be unlocked to use it,) we can't travel to the zone just because it exists, therefore it only exists if we've unlocked it. This means they can't ever link a previous map to a future chapter. Sun's Refuge is an even more extreme version of this because we went through a lot of trouble during that chapter to make it livable. Since they can't assume that a player has already played through all previous content, they can't assume Sun's Refuge is even functional, let alone unlocked, let alone part of a map that's been unlocked. Since they can't make that assumption, we can't expect to ever have new content there.

Not sure why that's a problem. It's not like those maps are lacking content to begin with. In otherwords, the sole reason those maps exist is to provide the content, not to be a backdrop for future content. That means in theory, they should be so full of content, people will want to own them and the only complaint we should have is when new LS maps are lacking content. Up until Thunderhead, I never felt any LS map didn't provide enough things to do.

@Gehenna.3625 said:Yeah but being a life long skeptic, I always wonder if that's the whole story.Near as I can tell, if ANet wants us to be skeptical, they say nothing. If they say something, it's because that's the actual story.

Of course plenty of businesses lie or stretch the truth past reason. But with this company, with one (possible) exception, I've never caught them out in revisionist history in the way implied above, at least based on comments they've made officially. (I'll send you a PM about the case I'm unsure about for reasons that will make sense.) Still, it's up to you decide based on the evidence as you find it, not as it looks to me.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Kal Spiro.9745 said:There is a built in flaw to the way ArenaNet is providing us with content. We can't ever reuse any of it. Because the zones aren't connected to the main maps in a free form way (even if there is a gate to the zone it has to be unlocked to use it,) we can't travel to the zone just because it exists, therefore it only exists if we've unlocked it. This means they can't ever link a previous map to a future chapter. Sun's Refuge is an even more extreme version of this because we went through a lot of trouble during that chapter to make it livable. Since they can't assume that a player has already played through all previous content, they can't assume Sun's Refuge is even functional, let alone unlocked, let alone part of a map that's been unlocked. Since they can't make that assumption, we can't expect to ever have new content there.

The reason it's a problem is because they can't. Even if in the future they'd like to, they aren't able to short of instances that we somehow reach from some inexplicable magical means. Look at anything that's been added to Core Tyria since the beginning of the game. Because everyone will always have those maps they can put things there. But no matter how related, or meaningful it might be, they can't put anything into any of the living world maps, ever, because there is no guarantee who has them. Technically they could still put stuff into HoT or PoF, more likely to do it in PoF than HoT since HoT maps are all giant metas all the time, but the living world is starting to really take up a lot of space and all of it is one shots that have no real value once you finish them.

They could have treated the refuge as a guild Hall instance, that would make it possible to reuse / revisit / whatever, as it would be detached from a specific LS release. Or that's what I'd do if the story really called for it.

@Skotlex.7580 said:They could have treated the refuge as a guild Hall instance, that would make it possible to reuse / revisit / whatever, as it would be detached from a specific LS release. Or that's what I'd do if the story really called for it.

There are several locations in LS maps that would make excellent guild halls: Thunderhead Keep, the Moon Fortress in Kourna, Palawadan. Unfortunately, it seems unlikely that we'll get many more GH , maybe 1 per expansion.

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:There are several locations in LS maps that would make excellent guild halls: Thunderhead Keep, the Moon Fortress in Kourna, Palawadan. Unfortunately, it seems unlikely that we'll get many more GH , maybe 1 per expansion.

I can already imagine all the "praise be Joko" guilds getting along just fine with the loyalists and sharing a booze with them.... until a bunch of adventures comes to raid the place. >_>

Well, that's one way to have gvg in GW2. :D

It's why many people are really annoyed that Anet puts all this work into this instances and maps just for them to sit there, do nothing and gather dust.I mean.. the instances.. the maps.. are lovely places.. beautiful.. but dead content from day 2 of release. (give or take a players game time).

Instead of new maps... reuse old ones for x reasons.. put more into those maps.