Stone Resonance. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Stone Resonance.

apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited January 28, 2019 in Elementalist

Stone Resonance

Barrier: 1,069 (0.15)
Stone Resonance (5s): Periodically gain shield.
Pulses: 5
Maximum Count: 2
Count Recharge: 50s
Interval: 1s

So a total of 5k barrier on a 50s CD.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stone_Resonance

Sand Cascade
2.4k barrier on a 10s CD
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Cascade

Sand Flare
4.2k barrier on a 25s CD
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Flare

Desert Shroud
4.6k barrier on a 30s CD
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Shroud

Shock Shield
213 barrier per hit (5 hits) on up to 5 target (5,325 max) on a 20s CD
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shock_Shield

Adaptive Armour
1k barrier when struck on a 3s CD
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adaptive_Armor

Recovery Matrix
3.5k barrier on heal, usually about 20s CD
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Recovery_Matrix

The cool down for the amount of barrier given from Stone Resonance seems a bit off. Now I'm not saying make it a 20s count recharge or anything daft but maybe it would be nice to get it reduced to 30-40s count recharge so it's actually useful. I'd ask for more barrier but it's already nearly half an ele's base health.

Even twist of fate which will mitigate more damage (because so much hits for 5k+ now) has a lower count recharge.

Comments

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think I have never seen anyone run it anywhere at all. :tongue:

    Totally agree, a change would be nice. Even though I don't think even a CD of 25s would change much. ToF would remain the superior defensive stance, adding another one would just make bunkery more bunkery, damage builds would usually use offensive skills next to ToF. But maybe there would be off-"meta" possibilities, which could be fun indeed!
    But I think the issues with eles lie elsewhere and would also just need some small number tweaks. Let's see if anything relevant changes in the next balance patch. :wink:

    Mostly talking about PVP here. Maybe it's different in WvW or raids, no idea. Might change it's usefulness there more significantly.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    I think I have never seen anyone run it anywhere at all. :tongue:

    Totally agree, a change would be nice. Even though I don't think even a CD of 25s would change much. ToF would remain the superior defensive stance, adding another one would just make bunkery more bunkery, damage builds would usually use offensive skills next to ToF. But maybe there would be off-"meta" possibilities, which could be fun indeed!
    But I think the issues with eles lie elsewhere and would also just need some small number tweaks. Let's see if anything relevant changes in the next balance patch. :wink:

    Mostly talking about PVP here. Maybe it's different in WvW or raids, no idea. Might change it's usefulness there more significantly.

    If you were going for stab on stances at 30-40s you would use this for a defensive option and Primordial Stance a more offensive option. Though it's debatable if arcane shield is better but with perma prot that enhances the barrier more than it would Arcane Shield. Either way Stone Resonance becomes a compelling choice if going for stances and I'm OK with it having that niche so long as it's got a niche.

    Yes I don't think I've ever seen anyone use this stance. I've seen aquatic stance in raids (it's still a poo stance) but never Stone Resonance.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    I think I have never seen anyone run it anywhere at all. :tongue:

    Totally agree, a change would be nice. Even though I don't think even a CD of 25s would change much. ToF would remain the superior defensive stance, adding another one would just make bunkery more bunkery, damage builds would usually use offensive skills next to ToF. But maybe there would be off-"meta" possibilities, which could be fun indeed!
    But I think the issues with eles lie elsewhere and would also just need some small number tweaks. Let's see if anything relevant changes in the next balance patch. :wink:

    Mostly talking about PVP here. Maybe it's different in WvW or raids, no idea. Might change it's usefulness there more significantly.

    If you were going for stab on stances at 30-40s you would use this for a defensive option and Primordial Stance a more offensive option. (...)

    Yaah, that's what I am (a little) worried about. Imagine boring mender S/D with this instead of Primordial Stance. Even less damage - if that was passible at all -, and more tankyness. But maybe they could tackle that build in some other way. It might help with purely power based, more offensive S/D builds like avatar lightning rod.

    What other build uses stances in PVP? I can't think of one. Staff zerker or FA would always use ToF, LF and then an offensive option. Or, well, a troll skill like frost bow. :lol:

    Doesn't mean it couldn't use a buff just to be in line with other skills of course! :smile:

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    I think I have never seen anyone run it anywhere at all. :tongue:

    Totally agree, a change would be nice. Even though I don't think even a CD of 25s would change much. ToF would remain the superior defensive stance, adding another one would just make bunkery more bunkery, damage builds would usually use offensive skills next to ToF. But maybe there would be off-"meta" possibilities, which could be fun indeed!
    But I think the issues with eles lie elsewhere and would also just need some small number tweaks. Let's see if anything relevant changes in the next balance patch. :wink:

    Mostly talking about PVP here. Maybe it's different in WvW or raids, no idea. Might change it's usefulness there more significantly.

    If you were going for stab on stances at 30-40s you would use this for a defensive option and Primordial Stance a more offensive option. (...)

    Yaah, that's what I am (a little) worried about. Imagine boring mender S/D with this instead of Primordial Stance. Even less damage - if that was passible at all -, and more tankyness. But maybe they could tackle that build in some other way. It might help with purely power based, more offensive S/D builds like avatar lightning rod.

    What other build uses stances in PVP? I can't think of one. Staff zerker or FA would always use ToF, LF and then an offensive option. Or, well, a troll skill like frost bow. :lol:

    Doesn't mean it couldn't use a buff just to be in line with other skills of course! :smile:

    Yes that is my concern too, the boring tanky weaver using Stone Resonance instead of Primordial Stance and essentially becoming almost unkillable. The problem is that anything you make for "damage eles" to survive more usually will end up making tanky ones unkillable.

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    I dunno if a lower cooldown alone would make me wanna pick it up even.
    All of the other barrier traits/skills you have listed do something extra...even if its just Aoe Barrier for allies like sand cascade.

    Desert shroud pulses Dmg; Adaptive Armor reduces condition dmg ...etc. etc.
    Barrier alone doesnt cut it for me.
    If it would however do something extra....like - from the top of my head - pulse resistance or whatever.....I actually would be inclined to give it a try.

  • that skill will never be useful if all it does is pulse useless barriers because it takes up an important utility slot and doesnt do damage like scourge skills, unless it's on an absurdly low cd/gives insane amount barriers.

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2019

    I use this frequently while roaming sw/d because 2 charges of 5k barrier tends to be enough to win a difficult fight, and because I'm otherwise spec'd more offensively than most sw/d weaver builds, so the barrier helps a lot. I'm also concerned about the tankier sw/d weaver builds benefiting even more from any buffs that could be made to this skill. But what do I care -- I'm an ele main, go ahead and buff it.

    edit: looks like I'm of the unpopular opinion here so I'll just explain a bit further. I use this skill because I'm already running lightning flash and twist of fate --- I could run arcane wave or another offensive utility, but I don't need to, because I'm using strength runes and have a min-maxed to hell build that lets me do a lot of damage while sustaining really well; so an offensive utility isn't needed for my build. So what about defensive utilities - well I could run mistform but I can't deal damage while using it, I could run arcane shield but that's simply 3 blocks which I don't need with the amount of evade I already have, I could run the cantrip (forget the name) for protection/stability but I already get protection every time I attune to earth and stability isn't super crucial with this build. Therefore I pick stone resonance --- out of all the available options, it helps me kill the most.

    Do keep in mind that you take -50% damage while a barrier is active (last time I checked, seems like this is still the case, don't know why anet never made this clear). It can help you live through bursts when you're on cooldown for riptide or evade.

    Solemn [wHo][shrd] | YouTube Weaver/other montages, tutorials, memes |
    Anvil Rock (main) | Darkhaven (alt)

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    I use this frequently while roaming sw/d because 2 charges of 5k barrier tends to be enough to win a difficult fight, and because I'm otherwise spec'd more offensively than most sw/d weaver builds, so the barrier helps a lot. I'm also concerned about the tankier sw/d weaver builds benefiting even more from any buffs that could be made to this skill. But what do I care -- I'm an ele main, go ahead and buff it.

    edit: looks like I'm of the unpopular opinion here so I'll just explain a bit further. I use this skill because I'm already running lightning flash and twist of fate --- I could run arcane wave or another offensive utility, but I don't need to, because I'm using strength runes and have a min-maxed to hell build that lets me do a lot of damage while sustaining really well; so an offensive utility isn't needed for my build. So what about defensive utilities - well I could run mistform but I can't deal damage while using it, I could run arcane shield but that's simply 3 blocks which I don't need with the amount of evade I already have, I could run the cantrip (forget the name) for protection/stability but I already get protection every time I attune to earth and stability isn't super crucial with this build. Therefore I pick stone resonance --- out of all the available options, it helps me kill the most.

    Do keep in mind that you take -50% damage while a barrier is active (last time I checked, seems like this is still the case, don't know why anet never made this clear). It can help you live through bursts when you're on cooldown for riptide or evade.

    So one of the good things about people with a youtube montage link in their sig is that you can go and have a look.

    You're not often using it often for roaming from the last few videos. From the few times I did see you use it the barrier absorbed exactly 2 hits over the entirety of the video with you utilising it then using 2 evades so nothing actually hit you and the barrier dropped off.

    Even if barrier reduced damage by 50% (making it able to absorb 10k) it's still only absorbing 2 hits per it's count and it's cool down is significantly higher than most defensive options. As I say it's way off being competitive or niche vs core and that's a problem, skills should at least have niches where they're best in slot, maybe not by a lot but enough to give it a purpose.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Its lacking for sure it should at least have protection on it per pulse. That being said barrier on weaver seems like a weird chose as it dose nothing for the class out side of giving it another heal effect. Being under the barrier effect should give weaver something (i suggest stronger attks) much like scraper gets stronger attks and takes less condi dmg and scorge whom clears for barrier application.

    There contless skill on weaver tempest and core ele that are far weaker then other classes ele is the "kitten" class of gw2 for sure weaver just an ele who dose not play like an ele classes so its stronger because of such.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    (...)
    Do keep in mind that you take -50% damage while a barrier is active (last time I checked, seems like this is still the case, don't know why anet never made this clear). (...)

    This is not the case and I believe it never was. Maybe it was a bug once.

    Apart from this, yeah, that is what I meant. In PVP avatar would (rightfully) benefit from it. The problem is, the power based bunker mender would benefit even more and could drop the offensive option Primordial Stance, making him more tanky.

    Boooring. :tongue: But sounds like a fun build from your side. If they change mender's sustain somehow differently, I would really appreciate a lower CD.

  • Never used this skill.
    Even if you give it shorter CD you'll still need vitality and healing power. We have barriers on half the traits, but they are all very very weak, and nothing added to.
    Actually weaver should get a mechanic on barriers like scourge or scrapper; "gain a boon when you get a barrier" or something.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    At the end of the day support barriers that are aoe from scorge are far stronger and on much lower cd then weaver self barrier and that is just out right bad balancing.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jski.6180 said:
    At the end of the day support barriers that are aoe from scorge are far stronger and on much lower cd then weaver self barrier and that is just out right bad balancing.

    There are seriously people thumbing you up for that?
    To mimick a bit the way you formed your sentence: "At the end of the day the scourge don't have any evade skill, invuln or even block everywhere on it's skill kit, it's only defense mechanic is barrier."

    Stone resonance basically give the same amount of self barrier than sand shroud. Sand shroud having a hard CD of 30 second where stone resonance can be used twice every 50 seconds. Desert empowerment can give 1k barrier 3 time every 15 second where the elementalist can just aoe heal for 1k with it's auto attack. Sand barrier can put on a shield for 2.5k barrier every 10 seconds where the elementalist can just put a geyser that heal for 2.7k health point every seconds for 4 seconds on a 20 second CD... etc.

    You just can't say it's outright bad balancing without taking into account all the things that the elementalist have access to that the necromancer don't. "At the end of the day" the scourge will have an edge over the elementalist when it come to support 10 man groups while the elementalist will have the edge when it come to support 5 man group.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    At the end of the day support barriers that are aoe from scorge are far stronger and on much lower cd then weaver self barrier and that is just out right bad balancing.

    There are seriously people thumbing you up for that?
    To mimick a bit the way you formed your sentence: "At the end of the day the scourge don't have any evade skill, invuln or even block everywhere on it's skill kit, it's only defense mechanic is barrier."

    Stone resonance basically give the same amount of self barrier than sand shroud. Sand shroud having a hard CD of 30 second where stone resonance can be used twice every 50 seconds. Desert empowerment can give 1k barrier 3 time every 15 second where the elementalist can just aoe heal for 1k with it's auto attack. Sand barrier can put on a shield for 2.5k barrier every 10 seconds where the elementalist can just put a geyser that heal for 2.7k health point every seconds for 4 seconds on a 20 second CD... etc.

    You just can't say it's outright bad balancing without taking into account all the things that the elementalist have access to that the necromancer don't. "At the end of the day" the scourge will have an edge over the elementalist when it come to support 10 man groups while the elementalist will have the edge when it come to support 5 man group.

    This is exactly why I was saying about reducing the CD to between 30-40s. As you mention ele has ways to self heal and evade on it's weapons and if you choose it hard invuln and projectile defence. The only block ele tends to use is arcane shield which is already on a lower cool down than a single charge of stone resonance and will potentially mitigate more damage, it's also a stunbreak and does damage when it pops while being able to be traited to 36s CD.

    No matter which way you cut it stone resonance isn't even a niche pick atm.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    @apharma.3741 said:
    This is exactly why I was saying about reducing the CD to between 30-40s. As you mention ele has ways to self heal and evade on it's weapons and if you choose it hard invuln and projectile defence. The only block ele tends to use is arcane shield which is already on a lower cool down than a single charge of stone resonance and will potentially mitigate more damage, it's also a stunbreak and does damage when it pops while being able to be traited to 36s CD.

    No matter which way you cut it stone resonance isn't even a niche pick atm.

    To be honest, I believe that even if ANet were to reduce the CD to between 30-40s the skill wouldn't be used much more than it is right now. To put it simply the philosophy of the skill don't fit into the kind of gameplay that most elementlists players want to use. Barrier in itself isn't a bad thing but the fact that the barrier build up over 5 second is the "brake", the issue.

    I suspect stone resonance to be best used coupled with stone heart for 5 seconds of "tranquility" in small scale fights. However, taking earth magic mean giving up on a traitline while taking full advantage of stone heart mean that you need to keep a leg into earth attunment as much as possible. Long story short, few elementalist's players are ready to invest that much, no matter the CD of stone resonance.

    NB.: Your initial post is wrong about stone resonance. Stone resonance effectively give 10k barrier every 50 second because there is 2 charges giving 1k every second for 5 seconds not just 1.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    This is exactly why I was saying about reducing the CD to between 30-40s. As you mention ele has ways to self heal and evade on it's weapons and if you choose it hard invuln and projectile defence. The only block ele tends to use is arcane shield which is already on a lower cool down than a single charge of stone resonance and will potentially mitigate more damage, it's also a stunbreak and does damage when it pops while being able to be traited to 36s CD.

    No matter which way you cut it stone resonance isn't even a niche pick atm.

    To be honest, I believe that even if ANet were to reduce the CD to between 30-40s the skill wouldn't be used much more than it is right now. To put it simply the philosophy of the skill don't fit into the kind of gameplay that most elementlists players want to use. Barrier in itself isn't a bad thing but the fact that the barrier build up over 5 second is the "brake", the issue.

    I suspect stone resonance to be best used coupled with stone heart for 5 seconds of "tranquility" in small scale fights. However, taking earth magic mean giving up on a traitline while taking full advantage of stone heart mean that you need to keep a leg into earth attunment as much as possible. Long story short, few elementalist's players are ready to invest that much, no matter the CD of stone resonance.

    NB.: Your initial post is wrong about stone resonance. Stone resonance effectively give 10k barrier every 50 second because there is 2 charges giving 1k every second for 5 seconds not just 1.

    Yeah I mean an ideal might be a change to the skill so it rewards going aggressive so it's not used on bunkers to be more bunker and is useful when traiting for stab on stance. I think balancing it around small scale is the better way to go and 1 stab is enough to make me run it if I pick the trait. I don't mind if the skill has only a niche of if you take the stab on stance trait but as I say atm it has no use.

    Yeah stone heart is a bit of a concern but if you're running stone heart you're not doing a ton of damage and the traits in earth aren't that good tbh. Maybe a weird condi bunker weaver might make use of boon duration and rock solid but it's not a great line except for the GMs imo.

    It's a 10k barrier up front then 5k/50s after that. That's the problem with ammo skills, they're front loaded but after the initial stack is gone you're on a base recharge. I stick to 5k per 50s because that's the recharge if you've not had time for you to get another stack back.

  • Fortus.6175Fortus.6175 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    NB.: Your initial post is wrong about stone resonance. Stone resonance effectively give 10k barrier every 50 second because there is 2 charges giving 1k every second for 5 seconds not just 1.

    No, if you are going to count both charges then you also have to count CD, 10k every 100 seconds (or 1 mins 40 seconds).

    @OP: I have used it, not very happy with it, but then again, I'm not happy that all eles can do is troll self heal builds where they just want to run around spamming heals and barriers while hitting like a wet noodle, to stall a point until one of them gets bored or caps/decaps the point.

    I suggest giving it something more offensive, change the functionality to be more like guardian's or warrior's heal, where the more damage you do, the more barrier you get, and give it a small baseline barrier, also, lower CD to 30, and make it last 6-8 (longer duration because most of our skills have LONG set up time, staff specially, by the time you finish casting fire 2 and fire 5, it already ran out)
    It rewards playing offensive and doing damage rather than running around, it gives you means to get in the thick and unleash it all, and you can run a more offensive amulet/runes and not get blown up by a breeze 40 feets away from you not even meant to hit you.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    At the end of the day support barriers that are aoe from scorge are far stronger and on much lower cd then weaver self barrier and that is just out right bad balancing.

    There are seriously people thumbing you up for that?
    To mimick a bit the way you formed your sentence: "At the end of the day the scourge don't have any evade skill, invuln or even block everywhere on it's skill kit, it's only defense mechanic is barrier."

    Stone resonance basically give the same amount of self barrier than sand shroud. Sand shroud having a hard CD of 30 second where stone resonance can be used twice every 50 seconds. Desert empowerment can give 1k barrier 3 time every 15 second where the elementalist can just aoe heal for 1k with it's auto attack. Sand barrier can put on a shield for 2.5k barrier every 10 seconds where the elementalist can just put a geyser that heal for 2.7k health point every seconds for 4 seconds on a 20 second CD... etc.

    You just can't say it's outright bad balancing without taking into account all the things that the elementalist have access to that the necromancer don't. "At the end of the day" the scourge will have an edge over the elementalist when it come to support 10 man groups while the elementalist will have the edge when it come to support 5 man group.

    The old point of balancing healing skills if they where able to heal others they often healed for far less if it was a self heal only it would heal for far more.

    Its simple rule of balancing if a self only effect is weaker then the support version then it is not balance.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The main weakness of skill is not being a stunbreak. Cd could be a bit lower in current implementation though, 50 is kinda high regardless of ammo considering that it only gives barrier. Anything below 40 is a bit too much though.

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    6 sec Protection, stun break and 40 sec cooldown. Done. 😜

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    Stone Resonance pulses, okai it's the same amount than desert shroud, but after 4 sec.
    It makes a big difference; this is not as effective if you need to mitigate a big hit, as you will only get 1k barrier at first.

    And Elemental refreshment ? Barrier 378 on dual skills ... It surely helps a lot to sustain a DPS weaver ...
    Invigorating strikes, barrier : 778 on dodges (+vigor), this is not that bad if you can pass over the Regen on Swiftness.
    If we get an added effect, like scourge or scrapper; barrier would be a gameplay mechanic and not just poor sustain.

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2019

    @apharma.3741 said:
    So one of the good things about people with a youtube montage link in their sig is that you can go and have a look. You're not often using it often for roaming from the last few videos. From the few times I did see you use it the barrier absorbed exactly 2 hits over the entirety of the video with you utilising it then using 2 evades so nothing actually hit you and the barrier dropped off.

    Well hold up. "Exactly 2 hits" is just two variables so this is sort of a moot point. Me reducing two potentially heavy-hitting hits by 50% and absorbing about 1.2k of the damage from each hit is not insignificant. Also it's easy for people to see when the skill is used, and battle is not always 100% predictable, so it's likely that I was baited once or twice in the clips you're referring to. I also can't expect myself to do everything perfectly every time -- especially when I'm not a PvP main, I'm a WvW main who doesn't roam often. But maybe I'm misreading and the pedantic vibe was unintended ?
    edit: hmm, is that so about barrier not reducing dmg by 50%? I'll take your word for it for now

    Even if barrier reduced damage by 50% (making it able to absorb 10k) it's still only absorbing 2 hits per it's count and it's cool down is significantly higher than most defensive options. As I say it's way off being competitive or niche vs core and that's a problem, skills should at least have niches where they're best in slot, maybe not by a lot but enough to give it a purpose.

    To be clear, I'm not here to advocate it beyond simply saying it can be valuable, even if it is niche. It doesn't need to be best-in-slot because that concept is best suited to games like runescape where best-in-slot is actually a concrete idea and not skewed by individual player talents and downfalls. I don't need the other skills, so I use it. It works for me and has saved me plenty of times outside my videos, lol.

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    At the end of the day support barriers that are aoe from scorge are far stronger and on much lower cd then weaver self barrier and that is just out right bad balancing.

    There are seriously people thumbing you up for that?
    To mimick a bit the way you formed your sentence: "At the end of the day the scourge don't have any evade skill, invuln or even block everywhere on it's skill kit, it's only defense mechanic is barrier."

    Stone resonance basically give the same amount of self barrier than sand shroud. Sand shroud having a hard CD of 30 second where stone resonance can be used twice every 50 seconds. Desert empowerment can give 1k barrier 3 time every 15 second where the elementalist can just aoe heal for 1k with it's auto attack. Sand barrier can put on a shield for 2.5k barrier every 10 seconds where the elementalist can just put a geyser that heal for 2.7k health point every seconds for 4 seconds on a 20 second CD... etc.

    You just can't say it's outright bad balancing without taking into account all the things that the elementalist have access to that the necromancer don't. "At the end of the day" the scourge will have an edge over the elementalist when it come to support 10 man groups while the elementalist will have the edge when it come to support 5 man group.

    Well said.

    Solemn [wHo][shrd] | YouTube Weaver/other montages, tutorials, memes |
    Anvil Rock (main) | Darkhaven (alt)

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2019

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    So one of the good things about people with a youtube montage link in their sig is that you can go and have a look. You're not often using it often for roaming from the last few videos. From the few times I did see you use it the barrier absorbed exactly 2 hits over the entirety of the video with you utilising it then using 2 evades so nothing actually hit you and the barrier dropped off.

    Well hold up. "Exactly 2 hits" is just two variables so this is sort of a moot point. Me reducing two potentially heavy-hitting hits by 50% and absorbing about 1.2k of the damage from each hit is not insignificant. Also it's easy for people to see when the skill is used, and battle is not always 100% predictable, so it's likely that I was baited once or twice in the clips you're referring to. I also can't expect myself to do everything perfectly every time -- especially when I'm not a PvP main, I'm a WvW main who doesn't roam often. But maybe I'm misreading and the pedantic vibe was unintended ?
    edit: hmm, is that so about barrier not reducing dmg by 50%? I'll take your word for it for now

    Even if barrier reduced damage by 50% (making it able to absorb 10k) it's still only absorbing 2 hits per it's count and it's cool down is significantly higher than most defensive options. As I say it's way off being competitive or niche vs core and that's a problem, skills should at least have niches where they're best in slot, maybe not by a lot but enough to give it a purpose.

    To be clear, I'm not here to advocate it beyond simply saying it can be valuable, even if it is niche. It doesn't need to be best-in-slot because that concept is best suited to games like runescape where best-in-slot is actually a concrete idea and not skewed by individual player talents and downfalls. I don't need the other skills, so I use it. It works for me and has saved me plenty of times outside my videos, lol.

    I mean you literally only got hit twice in quite a number of different videos with the stone resonance barrier up. Frequently you would use stone resonance and proceed to spam evades rendering the skill use questionable to say the least.

    I'm not asking for it to be best in slot, I'm only asking that it have a niche, right now most defensive options on ele are better than Stone Resonance when used properly, as in proactively to prevent big hits or successive amounts of damage while usually being stunbreaks.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Make Barrier grant stability with each pulse and it would be a good skill. Invigorating strikes: make stab on barrier and it would compete with regen on swiftness.

  • As a rule of thumb, there are a LOT of ele skills that could be DOUBLED in power or HALVED in CD and still only be a "maybe use." Because the balance team is terrible for eles, just expect to see something like "reduced CD by 3s, increased barrier scaling by 14.3%"

  • just random thought im gonna type out here: Stone resonance is indeed a little high on the cooldown side for its effects, but ele, If specced for it can be a barrier-spamming monster.

    Invigorating strikes the GM weaver trait, can provide 2000HP barrier @ 1455 healing power. consider an energy sigil & the orrian 40% endurance regen food as well as vigor, & you are applying a 2k barrier on avg every 3.3~ seconds with everything evened out. add in elemental refreshment providing (again @ 1455 HP) about 870~ barrier per dual skill, Lava skin, & Stone resonance trait/skills. your probably capable of spamming upwards of 40-50k barrier health in a 30 second fight pretty easily i'd say.

    Point is, I tend to look at things as pieces of a whole, rather than in a vacuum, Yes it could do with shorter cooldowns. But barrier application on weaver can be troll level.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kornfanxxx.9143 said:
    just random thought im gonna type out here: Stone resonance is indeed a little high on the cooldown side for its effects, but ele, If specced for it can be a barrier-spamming monster.

    Invigorating strikes the GM weaver trait, can provide 2000HP barrier @ 1455 healing power. consider an energy sigil & the orrian 40% endurance regen food as well as vigor, & you are applying a 2k barrier on avg every 3.3~ seconds with everything evened out. add in elemental refreshment providing (again @ 1455 HP) about 870~ barrier per dual skill, Lava skin, & Stone resonance trait/skills. your probably capable of spamming upwards of 40-50k barrier health in a 30 second fight pretty easily i'd say.

    Point is, I tend to look at things as pieces of a whole, rather than in a vacuum, Yes it could do with shorter cooldowns. But barrier application on weaver can be troll level.

    QFT

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • shinta.8906shinta.8906 Member ✭✭✭

    @kornfanxxx.9143

    add ontop the rune that gives u barrier on heal.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kornfanxxx.9143 said:
    just random thought im gonna type out here: Stone resonance is indeed a little high on the cooldown side for its effects, but ele, If specced for it can be a barrier-spamming monster.

    Invigorating strikes the GM weaver trait, can provide 2000HP barrier @ 1455 healing power. consider an energy sigil & the orrian 40% endurance regen food as well as vigor, & you are applying a 2k barrier on avg every 3.3~ seconds with everything evened out. add in elemental refreshment providing (again @ 1455 HP) about 870~ barrier per dual skill, Lava skin, & Stone resonance trait/skills. your probably capable of spamming upwards of 40-50k barrier health in a 30 second fight pretty easily i'd say.

    Point is, I tend to look at things as pieces of a whole, rather than in a vacuum, Yes it could do with shorter cooldowns. But barrier application on weaver can be troll level.

    With that much healing power you wouldn't even need barrier since you have tons of sustain from water/arcane which is on its own a troll level.

  • @steki.1478 said:

    @kornfanxxx.9143 said:
    just random thought im gonna type out here: Stone resonance is indeed a little high on the cooldown side for its effects, but ele, If specced for it can be a barrier-spamming monster.

    Invigorating strikes the GM weaver trait, can provide 2000HP barrier @ 1455 healing power. consider an energy sigil & the orrian 40% endurance regen food as well as vigor, & you are applying a 2k barrier on avg every 3.3~ seconds with everything evened out. add in elemental refreshment providing (again @ 1455 HP) about 870~ barrier per dual skill, Lava skin, & Stone resonance trait/skills. your probably capable of spamming upwards of 40-50k barrier health in a 30 second fight pretty easily i'd say.

    Point is, I tend to look at things as pieces of a whole, rather than in a vacuum, Yes it could do with shorter cooldowns. But barrier application on weaver can be troll level.

    With that much healing power you wouldn't even need barrier since you have tons of sustain from water/arcane which is on its own a troll level.

    Me personally, when I want my sword/dagger weaver to hold a point in spvp & bunker down in a serious match, like AT's (Which i'm just a substitute slot for our guilds AT team & they're extremely talented players [general jenkins/thane/clown/drydude/lubu], I tend to go invigorating strikes. I believe grimjack the team usa ele does as well, Yes woven stride clears condi's very well, & is very useful. but its important to consider that barrier health also eats condition damage, as well as power. & in this particular meta where the majority of the opponents will be power, with the exception of condi mirage, your going to see insane returns on trait investment fighting power builds & diving around enemy AoE with invigorating strikes.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2019

    @shinta.8906 said:
    @kornfanxxx.9143

    add ontop the rune that gives u barrier on heal.

    But you get nothing from that barrier out of all the classes weaver was going to be THE barrier class but why not give it nothing for having that barrier. Scraper gets more from it as well dose scorge. Its just bad balancing of the classes.

    If weaver is getting too much barrier then drop it and add more effects when you have barrier up or when you apply barrier. Weaver is the best class for getting more dmg when under the effect of barrier.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    But... it makes you perma yellow... :/

  • kornfanxxx.9143kornfanxxx.9143 Member ✭✭
    edited February 12, 2019

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @shinta.8906 said:
    @kornfanxxx.9143

    add ontop the rune that gives u barrier on heal.

    But you get nothing from that barrier out of all the classes weaver was going to be THE barrier class but why not give it nothing for having that barrier. Scraper gets more from it as well dose scorge. Its just bad balancing of the classes.

    If weaver is getting too much barrier then drop it and add more effects when you have barrier up or when you apply barrier. Weaver is the best class for getting more dmg when under the effect of barrier.

    its not THE barrier class imo, And I'm perfectly happy with just the barrier, i dont need some kinda bonus from gaining a barrier. The fact that the barrier is providing a temporary hit point pool of 2000~, or 870~, or 4000-5000~ from lava skin, are all hugely significant, that's all the more damage you can soak up which trust me, as bursty as power damage builds are, its wise to keep some barrier application going to dampen incoming bursts & allow longer reaction times. your easily multiplying the amount of required damage to kill you with proper play

  • "Anything I can do, they can do better"

    story of Ele's life.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kornfanxxx.9143 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @shinta.8906 said:
    @kornfanxxx.9143

    add ontop the rune that gives u barrier on heal.

    But you get nothing from that barrier out of all the classes weaver was going to be THE barrier class but why not give it nothing for having that barrier. Scraper gets more from it as well dose scorge. Its just bad balancing of the classes.

    If weaver is getting too much barrier then drop it and add more effects when you have barrier up or when you apply barrier. Weaver is the best class for getting more dmg when under the effect of barrier.

    its not THE barrier class imo, And I'm perfectly happy with just the barrier, i dont need some kinda bonus from gaining a barrier. The fact that the barrier is providing a temporary hit point pool of 2000~, or 870~, or 4000-5000~ from lava skin, are all hugely significant, that's all the more damage you can soak up which trust me, as bursty as power damage builds are, its wise to keep some barrier application going to dampen incoming bursts & allow longer reaction times. your easily multiplying the amount of required damage to kill you with proper play

    It is the self barrier class of PoF more then likely it was the first class with barrier as it seemed to be the first class worked on for PoF. Scraper only got barrier as an after though. So its super sad that scraper gets more for having barrier up then weaver it a real missed effect and tool for the class that would of added some real depth to the weaver game play making evasion key but gave weaver the weakness of when your barrier is down your simply weaker.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    I think I have never seen anyone run it anywhere at all. :tongue:

    Totally agree, a change would be nice. Even though I don't think even a CD of 25s would change much. ToF would remain the superior defensive stance, adding another one would just make bunkery more bunkery, damage builds would usually use offensive skills next to ToF. But maybe there would be off-"meta" possibilities, which could be fun indeed!
    But I think the issues with eles lie elsewhere and would also just need some small number tweaks. Let's see if anything relevant changes in the next balance patch. :wink:

    Mostly talking about PVP here. Maybe it's different in WvW or raids, no idea. Might change it's usefulness there more significantly.

    If you were going for stab on stances at 30-40s you would use this for a defensive option and Primordial Stance a more offensive option. Though it's debatable if arcane shield is better but with perma prot that enhances the barrier more than it would Arcane Shield. Either way Stone Resonance becomes a compelling choice if going for stances and I'm OK with it having that niche so long as it's got a niche.

    Yes I don't think I've ever seen anyone use this stance. I've seen aquatic stance in raids (it's still a poo stance) but never Stone Resonance.

    It's an excellent anti-burst option , I use it to give myself some breathing room when ganked or mitigate incoming damage from a rev if anything else on CD, with a mender amulet you start off at 3-4k HP and I always follow with a dodge or two to activate the GM barrier trait.

    A 50s CD is balanced actually for what he does, a sword weaver got already access to few defensive options..no need to further improve that aspect

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    Eles: "Yaah, SR might need some lower CD, but it is kind of strong as it is, don't powercreep."

    Anet: implements Bulwark Gyro

    Eles: "..."

    :lol:

    Deploy a bulwark gyro to apply Watchful Eye to nearby allies.

    Barrier: 2,894 (0.44)?
    Barrier: 946 per pulse (0.11)?
    Watchful Eye (4s): Some of your incoming damage is shared with a nearby scrapper.
    Number of Targets: 5
    Duration: 5s
    Interval: 1s
    Radius: 240
    Combo Field: Lightning
    Cool Down: 25s (20s WvW/PvE)

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bulwark_Gyro

    Enter an earthen state, gaining barrier periodically over the course of the stance.

    Barrier: 1,069 (0.15)?
    Stone Resonance (5s): Periodically gain shield.
    Pulses: 5
    Maximum Count: 2
    Count Recharge: 50s
    Interval: 1s

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stone_Resonance

    :cry:

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2019

    other than bulwark gyro there's also this to compare:

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adaptive_Armor
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invigorating_Strikes

    Nice one anet. Apparently your internal test team can come up with some unkillable ele such that you won't make any meanginful buffs to eles but you're ok with giving the buffs to engis so they can be unkillable. Not biased at all.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    Let's 10-target every ele skill, shall we?

    Buff Elementalist!!! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    Let's 10-target every ele skill, shall we?

    Don't....just....don't. They will take you seriously.

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2019

    That's crazy how scrapper can get the full 10k barrier so regulary and without any healing power, and my weaver just has "300 barrier on dual attacks" or "1k barrier pulses that you need to anticipate big hits 5sec before to actually be effective" ... But ok.

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 8, 2019

    After seeing the comparison of stone resonance with bulwark gyro, I don't ever want to see people talking about how ele should not get buffed because of power creep. Everyone else keeps getting power crept and Anet doesn't seem to care about power creep. Ele has been bad in PvP for nearly one and a half years. It is time that it got the buffs that it needs to be part of the meta.

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭

    I did 1650 > 1520 in pvp in 2 days, just because of teams of 2 scrappers. I ragequit before Gold. Scrapper better weaver than weaver. I'll just stop to play weaver, it's a nonsense.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ganathar.4956 said:
    After seeing the comparison of stone resonance with bulwark gyro, I don't ever want to see people talking about how ele should not get buffed because of power creep. Everyone else keeps getting power crept and Anet doesn't seem to care about power creep. Ele has been bad in PvP for nearly one and a half years. It is time that it got the buffs that it needs to be part of the meta.

    We're TOP DAMAGE ON LARGE HITBOX (even SC says it's used because of RNG). Let's see after the nerf to banners how we'll do in the benchmarks, that are brought up in many arguments.

    Buff Elementalist!!! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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