Stone Resonance.

Stone Resonance

Barrier: 1,069 (0.15)Stone Resonance (5s): Periodically gain shield.Pulses: 5Maximum Count: 2Count Recharge: 50sInterval: 1s

So a total of 5k barrier on a 50s CD.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stone_Resonance

Sand Cascade2.4k barrier on a 10s CDhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Cascade

Sand Flare4.2k barrier on a 25s CDhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Flare

Desert Shroud4.6k barrier on a 30s CDhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Shroud

Shock Shield213 barrier per hit (5 hits) on up to 5 target (5,325 max) on a 20s CDhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shock_Shield

Adaptive Armour1k barrier when struck on a 3s CDhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adaptive_Armor

Recovery Matrix3.5k barrier on heal, usually about 20s CDhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Recovery_Matrix

The cool down for the amount of barrier given from Stone Resonance seems a bit off. Now I'm not saying make it a 20s count recharge or anything daft but maybe it would be nice to get it reduced to 30-40s count recharge so it's actually useful. I'd ask for more barrier but it's already nearly half an ele's base health.

Even twist of fate which will mitigate more damage (because so much hits for 5k+ now) has a lower count recharge.

I think I have never seen anyone run it anywhere at all. :tongue:

Totally agree, a change would be nice. Even though I don't think even a CD of 25s would change much. ToF would remain the superior defensive stance, adding another one would just make bunkery more bunkery, damage builds would usually use offensive skills next to ToF. But maybe there would be off-"meta" possibilities, which could be fun indeed!But I think the issues with eles lie elsewhere and would also just need some small number tweaks. Let's see if anything relevant changes in the next balance patch. :wink:

Mostly talking about PVP here. Maybe it's different in WvW or raids, no idea. Might change it's usefulness there more significantly.

@"Megametzler.5729" said:I think I have never seen anyone run it anywhere at all. :tongue:

Totally agree, a change would be nice. Even though I don't think even a CD of 25s would change much. ToF would remain the superior defensive stance, adding another one would just make bunkery more bunkery, damage builds would usually use offensive skills next to ToF. But maybe there would be off-"meta" possibilities, which could be fun indeed!But I think the issues with eles lie elsewhere and would also just need some small number tweaks. Let's see if anything relevant changes in the next balance patch. :wink:

Mostly talking about PVP here. Maybe it's different in WvW or raids, no idea. Might change it's usefulness there more significantly.

If you were going for stab on stances at 30-40s you would use this for a defensive option and Primordial Stance a more offensive option. Though it's debatable if arcane shield is better but with perma prot that enhances the barrier more than it would Arcane Shield. Either way Stone Resonance becomes a compelling choice if going for stances and I'm OK with it having that niche so long as it's got a niche.

Yes I don't think I've ever seen anyone use this stance. I've seen aquatic stance in raids (it's still a poo stance) but never Stone Resonance.

@apharma.3741 said:

@"Megametzler.5729" said:I think I have never seen anyone run it anywhere at all. :tongue:

Totally agree, a change would be nice. Even though I don't think even a CD of 25s would change much. ToF would remain the superior defensive stance, adding another one would just make bunkery more bunkery, damage builds would usually use offensive skills next to ToF. But maybe there would be off-"meta" possibilities, which could be fun indeed!But I think the issues with eles lie elsewhere and would also just need some small number tweaks. Let's see if anything relevant changes in the next balance patch. :wink:

Mostly talking about PVP here. Maybe it's different in WvW or raids, no idea. Might change it's usefulness there more significantly.

Yaah, that's what I am (a little) worried about. Imagine boring mender S/D with this instead of Primordial Stance. Even less damage - if that was passible at all -, and more tankyness. But maybe they could tackle that build in some other way. It might help with purely power based, more offensive S/D builds like avatar lightning rod.

What other build uses stances in PVP? I can't think of one. Staff zerker or FA would always use ToF, LF and then an offensive option. Or, well, a troll skill like frost bow. :lol:

Doesn't mean it couldn't use a buff just to be in line with other skills of course! :smile:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:I think I have never seen anyone run it anywhere at all. :tongue:

Totally agree, a change would be nice. Even though I don't think even a CD of 25s would change much. ToF would remain the superior defensive stance, adding another one would just make bunkery more bunkery, damage builds would usually use offensive skills next to ToF. But maybe there would be off-"meta" possibilities, which could be fun indeed!But I think the issues with eles lie elsewhere and would also just need some small number tweaks. Let's see if anything relevant changes in the next balance patch. :wink:

Mostly talking about PVP here. Maybe it's different in WvW or raids, no idea. Might change it's usefulness there more significantly.

Yes that is my concern too, the boring tanky weaver using Stone Resonance instead of Primordial Stance and essentially becoming almost unkillable. The problem is that anything you make for "damage eles" to survive more usually will end up making tanky ones unkillable.

I dunno if a lower cooldown alone would make me wanna pick it up even.All of the other barrier traits/skills you have listed do something extra...even if its just Aoe Barrier for allies like sand cascade.

Desert shroud pulses Dmg; Adaptive Armor reduces condition dmg ...etc. etc.Barrier alone doesnt cut it for me.If it would however do something extra....like - from the top of my head - pulse resistance or whatever.....I actually would be inclined to give it a try.

that skill will never be useful if all it does is pulse useless barriers because it takes up an important utility slot and doesnt do damage like scourge skills, unless it's on an absurdly low cd/gives insane amount barriers.

I use this frequently while roaming sw/d because 2 charges of 5k barrier tends to be enough to win a difficult fight, and because I'm otherwise spec'd more offensively than most sw/d weaver builds, so the barrier helps a lot. I'm also concerned about the tankier sw/d weaver builds benefiting even more from any buffs that could be made to this skill. But what do I care -- I'm an ele main, go ahead and buff it.

edit: looks like I'm of the unpopular opinion here so I'll just explain a bit further. I use this skill because I'm already running lightning flash and twist of fate --- I could run arcane wave or another offensive utility, but I don't need to, because I'm using strength runes and have a min-maxed to hell build that lets me do a lot of damage while sustaining really well; so an offensive utility isn't needed for my build. So what about defensive utilities - well I could run mistform but I can't deal damage while using it, I could run arcane shield but that's simply 3 blocks which I don't need with the amount of evade I already have, I could run the cantrip (forget the name) for protection/stability but I already get protection every time I attune to earth and stability isn't super crucial with this build. Therefore I pick stone resonance --- out of all the available options, it helps me kill the most.

Do keep in mind that you take -50% damage while a barrier is active (last time I checked, seems like this is still the case, don't know why anet never made this clear). It can help you live through bursts when you're on cooldown for riptide or evade.

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:I use this frequently while roaming sw/d because 2 charges of 5k barrier tends to be enough to win a difficult fight, and because I'm otherwise spec'd more offensively than most sw/d weaver builds, so the barrier helps a lot. I'm also concerned about the tankier sw/d weaver builds benefiting even more from any buffs that could be made to this skill. But what do I care -- I'm an ele main, go ahead and buff it.

edit: looks like I'm of the unpopular opinion here so I'll just explain a bit further. I use this skill because I'm already running lightning flash and twist of fate --- I could run arcane wave or another offensive utility, but I don't need to, because I'm using strength runes and have a min-maxed to hell build that lets me do a lot of damage while sustaining really well; so an offensive utility isn't needed for my build. So what about defensive utilities - well I could run mistform but I can't deal damage while using it, I could run arcane shield but that's simply 3 blocks which I don't need with the amount of evade I already have, I could run the cantrip (forget the name) for protection/stability but I already get protection every time I attune to earth and stability isn't super crucial with this build. Therefore I pick stone resonance --- out of all the available options, it helps me kill the most.

Do keep in mind that you take -50% damage while a barrier is active (last time I checked, seems like this is still the case, don't know why anet never made this clear). It can help you live through bursts when you're on cooldown for riptide or evade.

So one of the good things about people with a youtube montage link in their sig is that you can go and have a look.

You're not often using it often for roaming from the last few videos. From the few times I did see you use it the barrier absorbed exactly 2 hits over the entirety of the video with you utilising it then using 2 evades so nothing actually hit you and the barrier dropped off.

Even if barrier reduced damage by 50% (making it able to absorb 10k) it's still only absorbing 2 hits per it's count and it's cool down is significantly higher than most defensive options. As I say it's way off being competitive or niche vs core and that's a problem, skills should at least have niches where they're best in slot, maybe not by a lot but enough to give it a purpose.

It's a good skill for 2012.

Its lacking for sure it should at least have protection on it per pulse. That being said barrier on weaver seems like a weird chose as it dose nothing for the class out side of giving it another heal effect. Being under the barrier effect should give weaver something (i suggest stronger attks) much like scraper gets stronger attks and takes less condi dmg and scorge whom clears for barrier application.

There contless skill on weaver tempest and core ele that are far weaker then other classes ele is the "gimp" class of gw2 for sure weaver just an ele who dose not play like an ele classes so its stronger because of such.

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:(...)Do keep in mind that you take -50% damage while a barrier is active (last time I checked, seems like this is still the case, don't know why anet never made this clear). (...)

This is not the case and I believe it never was. Maybe it was a bug once.

Apart from this, yeah, that is what I meant. In PVP avatar would (rightfully) benefit from it. The problem is, the power based bunker mender would benefit even more and could drop the offensive option Primordial Stance, making him more tanky.

Boooring. :tongue: But sounds like a fun build from your side. If they change mender's sustain somehow differently, I would really appreciate a lower CD.

Never used this skill.Even if you give it shorter CD you'll still need vitality and healing power. We have barriers on half the traits, but they are all very very weak, and nothing added to.Actually weaver should get a mechanic on barriers like scourge or scrapper; "gain a boon when you get a barrier" or something.

At the end of the day support barriers that are aoe from scorge are far stronger and on much lower cd then weaver self barrier and that is just out right bad balancing.

@"Jski.6180" said:At the end of the day support barriers that are aoe from scorge are far stronger and on much lower cd then weaver self barrier and that is just out right bad balancing.

There are seriously people thumbing you up for that?To mimick a bit the way you formed your sentence: "At the end of the day the scourge don't have any evade skill, invuln or even block everywhere on it's skill kit, it's only defense mechanic is barrier."

Stone resonance basically give the same amount of self barrier than sand shroud. Sand shroud having a hard CD of 30 second where stone resonance can be used twice every 50 seconds. Desert empowerment can give 1k barrier 3 time every 15 second where the elementalist can just aoe heal for 1k with it's auto attack. Sand barrier can put on a shield for 2.5k barrier every 10 seconds where the elementalist can just put a geyser that heal for 2.7k health point every seconds for 4 seconds on a 20 second CD... etc.

You just can't say it's outright bad balancing without taking into account all the things that the elementalist have access to that the necromancer don't. "At the end of the day" the scourge will have an edge over the elementalist when it come to support 10 man groups while the elementalist will have the edge when it come to support 5 man group.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:At the end of the day support barriers that are aoe from scorge are far stronger and on much lower cd then weaver self barrier and that is just out right bad balancing.

This is exactly why I was saying about reducing the CD to between 30-40s. As you mention ele has ways to self heal and evade on it's weapons and if you choose it hard invuln and projectile defence. The only block ele tends to use is arcane shield which is already on a lower cool down than a single charge of stone resonance and will potentially mitigate more damage, it's also a stunbreak and does damage when it pops while being able to be traited to 36s CD.

No matter which way you cut it stone resonance isn't even a niche pick atm.

@"apharma.3741" said:This is exactly why I was saying about reducing the CD to between 30-40s. As you mention ele has ways to self heal and evade on it's weapons and if you choose it hard invuln and projectile defence. The only block ele tends to use is arcane shield which is already on a lower cool down than a single charge of stone resonance and will potentially mitigate more damage, it's also a stunbreak and does damage when it pops while being able to be traited to 36s CD.

No matter which way you cut it stone resonance isn't even a niche pick atm.

To be honest, I believe that even if ANet were to reduce the CD to between 30-40s the skill wouldn't be used much more than it is right now. To put it simply the philosophy of the skill don't fit into the kind of gameplay that most elementlists players want to use. Barrier in itself isn't a bad thing but the fact that the barrier build up over 5 second is the "brake", the issue.

I suspect stone resonance to be best used coupled with stone heart for 5 seconds of "tranquility" in small scale fights. However, taking earth magic mean giving up on a traitline while taking full advantage of stone heart mean that you need to keep a leg into earth attunment as much as possible. Long story short, few elementalist's players are ready to invest that much, no matter the CD of stone resonance.

NB.: Your initial post is wrong about stone resonance. Stone resonance effectively give 10k barrier every 50 second because there is 2 charges giving 1k every second for 5 seconds not just 1.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"apharma.3741" said:This is exactly why I was saying about reducing the CD to between 30-40s. As you mention ele has ways to self heal and evade on it's weapons and if you choose it hard invuln and projectile defence. The only block ele tends to use is arcane shield which is already on a lower cool down than a single charge of stone resonance and will potentially mitigate more damage, it's also a stunbreak and does damage when it pops while being able to be traited to 36s CD.

No matter which way you cut it stone resonance isn't even a niche pick atm.

Yeah I mean an ideal might be a change to the skill so it rewards going aggressive so it's not used on bunkers to be more bunker and is useful when traiting for stab on stance. I think balancing it around small scale is the better way to go and 1 stab is enough to make me run it if I pick the trait. I don't mind if the skill has only a niche of if you take the stab on stance trait but as I say atm it has no use.

Yeah stone heart is a bit of a concern but if you're running stone heart you're not doing a ton of damage and the traits in earth aren't that good tbh. Maybe a weird condi bunker weaver might make use of boon duration and rock solid but it's not a great line except for the GMs imo.

It's a 10k barrier up front then 5k/50s after that. That's the problem with ammo skills, they're front loaded but after the initial stack is gone you're on a base recharge. I stick to 5k per 50s because that's the recharge if you've not had time for you to get another stack back.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

NB.: Your initial post is wrong about stone resonance. Stone resonance effectively give 10k barrier every 50 second because there is 2 charges giving 1k every second for 5 seconds not just 1.

No, if you are going to count both charges then you also have to count CD, 10k every 100 seconds (or 1 mins 40 seconds).

@OP: I have used it, not very happy with it, but then again, I'm not happy that all eles can do is troll self heal builds where they just want to run around spamming heals and barriers while hitting like a wet noodle, to stall a point until one of them gets bored or caps/decaps the point.

I suggest giving it something more offensive, change the functionality to be more like guardian's or warrior's heal, where the more damage you do, the more barrier you get, and give it a small baseline barrier, also, lower CD to 30, and make it last 6-8 (longer duration because most of our skills have LONG set up time, staff specially, by the time you finish casting fire 2 and fire 5, it already ran out)It rewards playing offensive and doing damage rather than running around, it gives you means to get in the thick and unleash it all, and you can run a more offensive amulet/runes and not get blown up by a breeze 40 feets away from you not even meant to hit you.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:At the end of the day support barriers that are aoe from scorge are far stronger and on much lower cd then weaver self barrier and that is just out right bad balancing.

The old point of balancing healing skills if they where able to heal others they often healed for far less if it was a self heal only it would heal for far more.

Its simple rule of balancing if a self only effect is weaker then the support version then it is not balance.

The main weakness of skill is not being a stunbreak. Cd could be a bit lower in current implementation though, 50 is kinda high regardless of ammo considering that it only gives barrier. Anything below 40 is a bit too much though.

6 sec Protection, stun break and 40 sec cooldown. Done. ?

Stone Resonance pulses, okai it's the same amount than desert shroud, but after 4 sec.It makes a big difference; this is not as effective if you need to mitigate a big hit, as you will only get 1k barrier at first.

And Elemental refreshment ? Barrier 378 on dual skills ... It surely helps a lot to sustain a DPS weaver ...Invigorating strikes, barrier : 778 on dodges (+vigor), this is not that bad if you can pass over the Regen on Swiftness.If we get an added effect, like scourge or scrapper; barrier would be a gameplay mechanic and not just poor sustain.

@"apharma.3741" said:So one of the good things about people with a youtube montage link in their sig is that you can go and have a look. You're not often using it often for roaming from the last few videos. From the few times I did see you use it the barrier absorbed exactly 2 hits over the entirety of the video with you utilising it then using 2 evades so nothing actually hit you and the barrier dropped off.Well hold up. "Exactly 2 hits" is just two variables so this is sort of a moot point. Me reducing two potentially heavy-hitting hits by 50% and absorbing about 1.2k of the damage from each hit is not insignificant. Also it's easy for people to see when the skill is used, and battle is not always 100% predictable, so it's likely that I was baited once or twice in the clips you're referring to. I also can't expect myself to do everything perfectly every time -- especially when I'm not a PvP main, I'm a WvW main who doesn't roam often. But maybe I'm misreading and the pedantic vibe was unintended ?edit: hmm, is that so about barrier not reducing dmg by 50%? I'll take your word for it for now

Even if barrier reduced damage by 50% (making it able to absorb 10k) it's still only absorbing 2 hits per it's count and it's cool down is significantly higher than most defensive options. As I say it's way off being competitive or niche vs core and that's a problem, skills should at least have niches where they're best in slot, maybe not by a lot but enough to give it a purpose.To be clear, I'm not here to advocate it beyond simply saying it can be valuable, even if it is niche. It doesn't need to be best-in-slot because that concept is best suited to games like runescape where best-in-slot is actually a concrete idea and not skewed by individual player talents and downfalls. I don't need the other skills, so I use it. It works for me and has saved me plenty of times outside my videos, lol.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:At the end of the day support barriers that are aoe from scorge are far stronger and on much lower cd then weaver self barrier and that is just out right bad balancing.

@"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

@"apharma.3741" said:So one of the good things about people with a youtube montage link in their sig is that you can go and have a look. You're not often using it often for roaming from the last few videos. From the few times I did see you use it the barrier absorbed exactly 2 hits over the entirety of the video with you utilising it then using 2 evades so nothing actually hit you and the barrier dropped off.Well hold up. "Exactly 2 hits" is just two variables so this is sort of a moot point. Me reducing two potentially heavy-hitting hits by 50%

and

absorbing about 1.2k of the damage from each hit is not insignificant. Also it's easy for people to see when the skill is used, and battle is not always 100% predictable, so it's likely that I was baited once or twice in the clips you're referring to. I also can't expect myself to do everything perfectly every time -- especially when I'm not a PvP main, I'm a WvW main who doesn't roam often. But maybe I'm misreading and the pedantic vibe was unintended ?

edit: hmm, is that so about barrier not reducing dmg by 50%? I'll take your word for it for now

Even if barrier reduced damage by 50% (making it able to absorb 10k) it's still only absorbing 2 hits per it's count and it's cool down is significantly higher than most defensive options. As I say it's way off being competitive or niche vs core and that's a problem, skills should at least have niches where they're best in slot, maybe not by a lot but enough to give it a purpose.To be clear, I'm not here to advocate it beyond simply saying it can be valuable, even if it is niche. It doesn't need to be best-in-slot because that concept is best suited to games like runescape where best-in-slot is actually a concrete idea and not skewed by individual player talents and downfalls. I don't need the other skills, so I use it. It works for me and has saved me plenty of times outside my videos, lol.

I mean you literally only got hit twice in quite a number of different videos with the stone resonance barrier up. Frequently you would use stone resonance and proceed to spam evades rendering the skill use questionable to say the least.

I'm not asking for it to be best in slot, I'm only asking that it have a niche, right now most defensive options on ele are better than Stone Resonance when used properly, as in proactively to prevent big hits or successive amounts of damage while usually being stunbreaks.