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Cleaner Visuals Are Extremely Important

Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited March 17, 2020 in WvW

It is important in pvp type modes to have clear visual tells, skill effects and such... There is no arguing that point. It was really cool of the dev team to offer the option of simplified nameplates to reduce the mass red name plates from view, but I feel we need to take other areas into consideration as well...

  1. The team changed Necro Shades to have improved visual tells, and I don’t disagree, but we need to look at another profession as well... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65877/absolute-best-way-to-balance-mesmer

  2. In addition to the above, what I’d like the team to consider for WvW and Spvp are the following changes to nameplate colors that create clear visual differences between players, pets, clones and NPCs...

  • Red Nameplate = Player

  • Orange Nameplate = Pets, Minions, Clones, Illusions, Summoned Entities...

  • Yellow Nameplate = NPC Enemies.

*When choosing colors it’s also important to be mindful of those who are colorblind. Perhaps a colorblind color palette could be offered as well.

  1. The red line on the skill bar to indicate if a target is in or out of range is not enough. We need an option to display target range, in numbers, above the targets head. The game already calculates distance and there is a point where targeting already breaks when the target is out of targeting distance, so have this target number break along with it. Edit- And obviously this range indicator is stopped when an opponent uses skills that remove targeting such as stealth, pet taunts and such...

  2. We also need better targeting indicators... There have been a number of games that use big icons or outlines or boxes... to clearly hilight a target, and it would be beneficial to have some options that offer those types of visual targeting markers here too.

Thanks for reading!

Updated 3/17- Thanks for the new Legendary Trinkets! Would be nice to have an OPTION that disables Legendary Trinket effects from other players. Also, an option to disable effects from each of your own individual Legendary Trinkets. And as cool as it might be, we don’t need hundreds of legendary balls floating around during combat, nor from the Mesmer clones with extra Legendary balls floating everywhere.

Thanks for the consideration!

Comments

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2019
    1. Agree on idea, but linked post is a huge no (which can be seen in the comments as well). The profession that should really be looked into when it comes to tells is revenant and its hammer skills which hurt a lot but are very hard to notice in large fight.
    2. and 4. Completely agree with this, no idea why it doesnt work like that in a 6 year old game.

    When it comes to 3rd point, it was once part of BGDM (dps meter), but Anet didnt like it for some reason (just like they didnt like its thicc healthbars which got implemented in game later).

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Rysdude.3824Rysdude.3824 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I was actually just thinking last night about how small the red range indicater bar is. I hope they listen to your suggestion!

  • I totally agree that in WvW the visuals can be confusing, but not really the professions you mentioned. As mentioned above, you have things like rev being able to hammer bomb and AoE hit for HUGE amounts. There is a visual - kind of. You just see the person zooming at you, but in a 20v20 situation it's basically invisible.

    Your suggestions for #1-2 would basically render mesmers totally useless. The whole POINT of clones is that they are just that: clones. To have clones have a different color name plate would require a massive overhaul of mesmer since the 'clone' aspect would be useless if you could just instantly target the mesmer constantly. There are ways to tell which is the clone and the mesmer - you just have to learn that and use it.

    For #3-4, I feel like part of this is just something you're expected to pick up with playing. For highlighting, you can always call targets. If you REALLY need range indicators (I mean, at some point you can kind of start to know fairly well the ranges of skills...) you can install GW2TACO which is allowed by the devs. With this, you can select different ranges (i.e. 240, 900, 1200) and it draws a circle around your character denoting that range. It also has a bevy of other overlay things, such as cardinal directions, objectives, etc.

  • @Swagger.1459 said:
    It is important in pvp type modes to have clear visual tells, skill effects and such... There is no arguing that point. It was really cool of the dev team to offer the option of simplified nameplates to reduce the mass red name plates from view, but I feel we need to take other areas into consideration as well...

    1. The team changed Necro Shades to have improved visual tells, and I don’t disagree, but we need to look at another profession as well... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65877/absolute-best-way-to-balance-mesmer

    2. In addition to the above, what I’d like the team to consider for WvW and Spvp are the following changes to nameplate colors that create clear visual differences between players, pets, clones and NPCs...

    *When choosing colors it’s also important to be mindful of those who are colorblind. Perhaps a colorblind color palette could be offered as well.

    GW2Hook has a coloblind assist that I've been using for awhile now. If anet adopted the GW2hook colorblind assist it'd lesson the cost of dev time.

  • Celsith.2753Celsith.2753 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    It is important in pvp type modes to have clear visual tells, skill effects and such... There is no arguing that point. It was really cool of the dev team to offer the option of simplified nameplates to reduce the mass red name plates from view, but I feel we need to take other areas into consideration as well...

    1. The team changed Necro Shades to have improved visual tells, and I don’t disagree, but we need to look at another profession as well... https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65877/absolute-best-way-to-balance-mesmer

    2. In addition to the above, what I’d like the team to consider for WvW and Spvp are the following changes to nameplate colors that create clear visual differences between players, pets, clones and NPCs...

    • Red Nameplate = Player

    • Orange Nameplate = Pets, Minions, Clones, Illusions, Summoned Entities...

    • Yellow Nameplate = NPC Enemies.

    *When choosing colors it’s also important to be mindful of those who are colorblind. Perhaps a colorblind color palette could be offered as well.

    1. The red line on the skill bar to indicate if a target is in or out of range is not enough. We need an option to display target range, in numbers, above the targets head. The game already calculates distance and there is a point where targeting already breaks when the target is out of targeting distance, so have this target number break along with it. Edit- And obviously this range indicator is stopped when an opponent uses skills that remove targeting such as stealth, pet taunts and such...

    2. We also need better targeting indicators... There have been a number of games that use big icons or outlines or boxes... to clearly hilight a target, and it would be beneficial to have some options that offer those types of visual targeting markers here too.

    Thanks for reading!

    Ummm fighting mesmers is a pain but isn't the whole point of clones .. to confuse you into attacking the wrong thing? I find general movement and sometimes food buff the easiest way to tell the real mesmer if that helps.
    I opened the thread thinking you'd be asking for more obvious/larger visual tells to things like torch 4 stealth, which I would have sympathy for - a couple butterflies is hard to see in the thick of things.

    1 million + WvW kills
    Diamond No Life
    [HUNT] Predatory Instinct

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    "3.The red line on the skill bar to indicate if a target is in or out of range is not enough. We need an option to display target range, in numbers, above the targets head. The game already calculates distance and there is a point where targeting already breaks when the target is out of targeting distance, so have this target number break along with it. Edit- And obviously this range indicator is stopped when an opponent uses skills that remove targeting such as stealth, pet taunts and such..."

    I def support this idea.Ive been wanting this since forever aswell,a range indicator right next or under the target youve selected,yes yes i know about the red blinking thing on your skillbar but an actual range indicator would be much more precise in practice.

    And somehow this will turn into another nerf stealth please thread.....

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I still want the devs to change death's judgement into a big laser that is like prime light beam. This would be a great visual tell.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I still want the devs to change death's judgement into a big laser that is like prime light beam. This would be a great visual tell.

    Have you tried dodging quickness + death judgement though?

    I know I can't with my 300 ping avg.

    Just wondering if others with better ping can.

    Visit 🏴‍☠️ Eremite's WvW Necromancy Graveyard 🏴‍☠️

    CD > TC > Mag > GOM > AR > JQ > BP

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm actually not sure if it's because of my bad ping that I can usually dodge them unless I am being +1'ed. I rely more on the audio queue from dj though, so I know when to time my dodge according to that cue. If I try to do it from the visual cue, for some reason the 'sync' on it is less reliable with my ping leading me to misjudge the timing for my dodge. My ping on my wired connection to isp to EU servers is 230ms but highly unstable with up to 4k, and to Na it's 330 with same instabilities. I have to use my mobile phone 4g connection to get a stable ping, but the latency is over 300 for both servers. Wish there was a local aws to proxy our traffic, it's so painful to play but I'm addicted to this game.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hereditary Colorblind here o/
    Red, and hues of red are the tough one for most of us. Though the only mmo I've ever seen incorporate an aid for this is Wildstar.

    Still, it was nice to be thought of

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    @Handin.4032 said:
    I totally agree that in WvW the visuals can be confusing, but not really the professions you mentioned. As mentioned above, you have things like rev being able to hammer bomb and AoE hit for HUGE amounts. There is a visual - kind of. You just see the person zooming at you, but in a 20v20 situation it's basically invisible.

    Your suggestions for #1-2 would basically render mesmers totally useless. The whole POINT of clones is that they are just that: clones. To have clones have a different color name plate would require a massive overhaul of mesmer since the 'clone' aspect would be useless if you could just instantly target the mesmer constantly. There are ways to tell which is the clone and the mesmer - you just have to learn that and use it.

    For #3-4, I feel like part of this is just something you're expected to pick up with playing. For highlighting, you can always call targets. If you REALLY need range indicators (I mean, at some point you can kind of start to know fairly well the ranges of skills...) you can install GW2TACO which is allowed by the devs. With this, you can select different ranges (i.e. 240, 900, 1200) and it draws a circle around your character denoting that range. It also has a bevy of other overlay things, such as cardinal directions, objectives, etc.

    I want you to watch these videos while taking into account all the competitive tools, and capabilities, a Mesmer has available for builds. Then I want you to consider how much "character copy confusion time" a Mesmer really needs among the evasion, mobility, potential high damage output, stealth... tools in the tool box.

    And I'd like to be clear on this... I main Ranger, have 7 actually. I do have all other professions as well, and I feel Mesmer is in a decent place overall. The area that's not ok is the visual component of their illusion designs. Mesmers don't need visual copies to be successful in wvw and spvp. If visual changes were made tomorrow the Mesmer would still have the exact same capabilities.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I still want the devs to change death's judgement into a big laser that is like prime light beam. This would be a great visual tell.

    Have you tried dodging quickness + death judgement though?

    I know I can't with my 300 ping avg.

    Just wondering if others with better ping can.

    If youre playing with 300 ping,than guess what.Your ping might be the issue ! To answer your question,yes its easily to avoid with a lower ping,im average 20 - 40 ping in EU and the only times im unable to dodge it is when im already in a fight and the De comes from stealth where my dodges might already be wasted.If its from an 1on1 perspective than again the only way it will hit is when im out of dodges.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I still want the devs to change death's judgement into a big laser that is like prime light beam. This would be a great visual tell.

    Have you tried dodging quickness + death judgement though?

    I know I can't with my 300 ping avg.

    Just wondering if others with better ping can.

    If youre playing with 300 ping,than guess what.Your ping might be the issue ! To answer your question,yes its easily to avoid with a lower ping,im average 20 - 40 ping in EU and the only times im unable to dodge it is when im already in a fight and the De comes from stealth where my dodges might already be wasted.If its from an 1on1 perspective than again the only way it will hit is when im out of dodges.

    Hmmm in that case, I think quickness should be removed to be fair to players with higher ping.
    Of course, some other boons should replace skills/sigils that give quickness as compensation.

    Visit 🏴‍☠️ Eremite's WvW Necromancy Graveyard 🏴‍☠️

    CD > TC > Mag > GOM > AR > JQ > BP

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    Hereditary Colorblind here o/
    Red, and hues of red are the tough one for most of us. Though the only mmo I've ever seen incorporate an aid for this is Wildstar.

    Still, it was nice to be thought of

    (Breaks out the red dyes).

    Ok. I’m ready now. (kitten.. who am I kidding....)

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I still want the devs to change death's judgement into a big laser that is like prime light beam. This would be a great visual tell.

    Have you tried dodging quickness + death judgement though?

    I know I can't with my 300 ping avg.

    Just wondering if others with better ping can.

    If youre playing with 300 ping,than guess what.Your ping might be the issue ! To answer your question,yes its easily to avoid with a lower ping,im average 20 - 40 ping in EU and the only times im unable to dodge it is when im already in a fight and the De comes from stealth where my dodges might already be wasted.If its from an 1on1 perspective than again the only way it will hit is when im out of dodges.

    Hmmm in that case, I think quickness should be removed to be fair to players with higher ping.
    Of course, some other boons should replace skills/sigils that give quickness as compensation.

    going by that i also know one with a potato computer that has to play with minimal models, you know the ones with basically close to 0 difference in animation whatever you do? so to be fair to potato users we should just disable animations from opponents.

    i dont even use quickness but that reasoning..

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I still want the devs to change death's judgement into a big laser that is like prime light beam. This would be a great visual tell.

    Have you tried dodging quickness + death judgement though?

    I know I can't with my 300 ping avg.

    Just wondering if others with better ping can.

    If youre playing with 300 ping,than guess what.Your ping might be the issue ! To answer your question,yes its easily to avoid with a lower ping,im average 20 - 40 ping in EU and the only times im unable to dodge it is when im already in a fight and the De comes from stealth where my dodges might already be wasted.If its from an 1on1 perspective than again the only way it will hit is when im out of dodges.

    Hmmm in that case, I think quickness should be removed to be fair to players with higher ping.
    Of course, some other boons should replace skills/sigils that give quickness as compensation.

    going by that i also know one with a potato computer that has to play with minimal models, you know the ones with basically close to 0 difference in animation whatever you do? so to be fair to potato users we should just disable animations from opponents.

    i dont even use quickness but that reasoning..

    I support the disabling of animations in that case.
    Fairness for all!

    Visit 🏴‍☠️ Eremite's WvW Necromancy Graveyard 🏴‍☠️

    CD > TC > Mag > GOM > AR > JQ > BP

  • Etterwyn.5263Etterwyn.5263 Member ✭✭✭

    My most reliable visual tell is when the screen transitions from color to black & white.

    WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.

  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree. Nerf the technobabble 6s daze on chrono.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I still want the devs to change death's judgement into a big laser that is like prime light beam. This would be a great visual tell.

    Have you tried dodging quickness + death judgement though?

    I know I can't with my 300 ping avg.

    Just wondering if others with better ping can.

    If youre playing with 300 ping,than guess what.Your ping might be the issue ! To answer your question,yes its easily to avoid with a lower ping,im average 20 - 40 ping in EU and the only times im unable to dodge it is when im already in a fight and the De comes from stealth where my dodges might already be wasted.If its from an 1on1 perspective than again the only way it will hit is when im out of dodges.

    Hmmm in that case, I think quickness should be removed to be fair to players with higher ping.
    Of course, some other boons should replace skills/sigils that give quickness as compensation.

    Yes lets remove quickness because You have a high ping.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I still want the devs to change death's judgement into a big laser that is like prime light beam. This would be a great visual tell.

    Have you tried dodging quickness + death judgement though?

    I know I can't with my 300 ping avg.

    Just wondering if others with better ping can.

    If youre playing with 300 ping,than guess what.Your ping might be the issue ! To answer your question,yes its easily to avoid with a lower ping,im average 20 - 40 ping in EU and the only times im unable to dodge it is when im already in a fight and the De comes from stealth where my dodges might already be wasted.If its from an 1on1 perspective than again the only way it will hit is when im out of dodges.

    Hmmm in that case, I think quickness should be removed to be fair to players with higher ping.
    Of course, some other boons should replace skills/sigils that give quickness as compensation.

    Yes lets remove quickness because You have a high ping.

    I can only assume he's trolling now.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭

    The majority of players doesn't have a ping in the 20-40 range. EU servers are based in Frankfurt/Germany and I'm not even 50km away from that and my normal ping on EU servers is around 50-80.ms On NA it's 120-150ms. For German standards I have an excellent internet connection.
    That doesn't make his argument better, but in a game that makes dodges the most important defensive skill we should have either tells that work even with a mediocre ping or scale the skills you don't rely on a single dodge to survive. (which you sadly do in this terrible meta)

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    I still want the devs to change death's judgement into a big laser that is like prime light beam. This would be a great visual tell.

    Have you tried dodging quickness + death judgement though?

    I know I can't with my 300 ping avg.

    Just wondering if others with better ping can.

    If youre playing with 300 ping,than guess what.Your ping might be the issue ! To answer your question,yes its easily to avoid with a lower ping,im average 20 - 40 ping in EU and the only times im unable to dodge it is when im already in a fight and the De comes from stealth where my dodges might already be wasted.If its from an 1on1 perspective than again the only way it will hit is when im out of dodges.

    Hmmm in that case, I think quickness should be removed to be fair to players with higher ping.
    Of course, some other boons should replace skills/sigils that give quickness as compensation.

    Yes lets remove quickness because You have a high ping.

    I can only assume he's trolling now.

    It has been a pleasure reading responses to some of my tongue in cheek posts.

    Visit 🏴‍☠️ Eremite's WvW Necromancy Graveyard 🏴‍☠️

    CD > TC > Mag > GOM > AR > JQ > BP

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    kitten, could they make the color of squad vs subgroup better? It's been years and I have to distinguish between blue and blue.

    Also I wonder if the team colors should be changed.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Clones being easily distinguished wouldnt make much sense. Its their purpose to confuse you for a split second, to let the Mesmer reposition quickly.

  • Rod.6581Rod.6581 Member ✭✭✭

    I would like for start when you chose lowest character details it also applies to backpacks, weapon and shiny mount skins.