Fair? Blinding Shadow vs Basilisk Venom

Can someone explain to me how is this okay?Basilisk Venom:1sec Activation time, 40 sec rechargeStun: 1.5 SecNumber of attacks: 5Radius: 240Unblockable

-Versus-

Blinding Shadow3/4 sec Activation time, 30 sec rechargeDAMAGEImmoblize: 2 secPOISONED15 stack Vulnerability 10 secsBoons removed: 2Knockdown: 3 second if markedRANGE: 1,200

ALSO, DE can have both which pretty much can locked down someone for a LONG TIME! I get it Basky can give to 5 people.... but that is not enough to all the other things Binding Shadow can do!!! AND ONE IS ELITE! To anybody that is not a thief can easily see Blinding Shadow should be an elite skill.

I just need some insight on what is going on with Anet... Seriously. I love this game and I love thief but the balancing doesn't make any sense and leave people guessing and trying their hardest to rationalise it.

It's Binding Shadow.

And yes, it's a fucked up utility skill that eclipses an Elite. Not only you will get a knockdown, but also an immob, poison, boonstrip, and vulnerability stack. Lol

Money talks. :)

I think the message is clear.Play Deadeye.

In PVE binding shadow is to slow to be really efficient.

In WvW i won't say anything because i rarely play this game mode

In PVP yeah it seems OP but in reallity this is just a "noob killer" and won't be efficient vs meta build or just build with some defensive traits/utilitys.There is more versatile utility to pick in pvp like Mercy, Shadow step, agility sigle, haste, roll for initiative.

Binding shadow is totaly useless against mirage (wich you can meet often), haste or mercy are better pick because they allow a "second burst" or/+ a stun break and not just a one trick pony like Binding shadow wich is only good for opening the fight (with the combo : cast binding and then mark the target)

@"Jumpel.3972" said:In PVE binding shadow is to slow to be really efficient.

In WvW i won't say anything because i rarely play this game mode

In PVP yeah it seems OP but in reallity this is just a "noob killer" and won't be efficient vs meta build or just build with some defensive traits/utilitys.There is more versatile utility to pick in pvp like Mercy, Shadow step, agility sigle, haste, roll for initiative.

Binding shadow is totaly useless against mirage (wich you can meet often), haste or mercy are better pick because they allow a "second burst" or/+ a stun break and not just a one trick pony like Binding shadow wich is only good for opening the fight (with the combo : cast binding and then mark the target)

He's not asking about the efficiency of Binding Shadow though. It may be a "noob killer" but regardless it shouldn't outclass something that is an Elite. Sindrener and Vallun mentioned about Binding Shadow being too much for a utility skill and that I cannot disagree.

@Isle of Stars.3049 said:It's Binding Shadow.

And yes, it's a kitten up utility skill that eclipses an Elite. Not only you will get a knockdown, but also an immob, boonstrip, and invul stack. Lol

Money talks. :)

Invul?

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@Isle of Stars.3049 said:It's Binding Shadow.

And yes, it's a kitten up utility skill that eclipses an Elite. Not only you will get a knockdown, but also an immob, boonstrip, and invul stack. Lol

Money talks. :)

Done editing! Thanks for pointing that out.

@"Isle of Stars.3049" said:

He's not asking about the efficiency of Binding Shadow though. It may be a "noob killer" but regardless it shouldn't outclass something that is an Elite. Sindrener and Vallun mentioned about Binding Shadow being too much for a utility skill and that I cannot disagree.

Basilisk Venom outclass Binding Shadow in group pve content

In pvp it can be admit that binding shadow outclass the elite but in my opinon it's only because the "sharing" aspect of the venom doesn't fit with the roamer roles of thief and the ranged aspect of deadeyes

Also separately in pvp and/or in pve there is many elite outclass by utility over all prof

In the hand of a prof like holo, mirage or spellbreaker this utility would be completly broken but not that much in the hand of thief because of our low acces of strong CC and our dependence of the agility signet and shadowstep

@Jumpel.3972 said:

@"Isle of Stars.3049" said:

He's not asking about the efficiency of Binding Shadow though. It may be a "noob killer" but regardless it shouldn't outclass something that is an Elite. Sindrener and Vallun mentioned about Binding Shadow being too much for a utility skill and that I cannot disagree.

No, it outclasses BV in sPvP simply because its function is superior. For a utility with a 3/4 cast time at 1200 range with a cd of 30 sec vs an Elite with 45 sec cd. The stun aspect of BV is lackluster compared to the 3s knockdown + 2 sec immob that Binding Shadow can provide you. This is the main reason why, DE or not, BV is often set aside for a more superior Elite which is Dagger Storm. The issue therefore is not the "sharing" aspect of it, since you can share it one way or another, but more of its purpose.

The more rational step for ANet to do is either tune up BV from 1.5 s of stun to 2s or simply nerf Binding Shadow to make the comparison more justified.

So nerf a skill to make the comparison with another skill justified ....

They do very different things. An unblockable stun that can be shared to a full team vs a single target utility that sets up a single target.

5x unblockable stuns vs 1x blockable knockdown with damage.

I mean, BS is a bit overloaded but it isn’t like BV is weak.

You have to sacrifice a whole traitline and Steal to get Binding Shadow. That cost is a lot. If I can use either one in my Core build, then it's a sound concern. The fact that I have to give up a traitline plus Steal makes Binding Shadow not worth it. Unless of course you're already playing DE, which means Binding Shadow supersedes BV, just like the Elite Spec traitline supersedes a Core.

BV is not a good Elite to begin with anyway, most of the venoms aren't good.

The first problem with the Venom is not the cooldown, but the fact that you cannot stack them together. I should be able to stack a damaging venom with a non-dmg venom, for instance, Basilisk + Spider or Ice Drake + Skale.

Second, Venoms should have a passive effect. Taking up a skill slot and doing nothing makes them useless. It would be better if I gain a Poison Aura when I have Spider Venom equip. Anyone who touch me gets poison. I mean Venom Aura is already baseline and this should be the effect in addition to venom share. If an ally touch me, they get venom on their weapons. If an enemy touch me, they get condition.

Or Venom application to my weapons should be automatic. So every 30s, Spider Venom is applied to my weapon whether I used up the stacks or not. Activating the skill would instead allow me to throw a vial of venom for an AoE condition effect. Meaning, throwing a Spider Venom will create a poison cloud.

But this is off topic so I digress.

To sum up: A former pro player and active PvP streamer made a rant/change-wish video on YouTube yesterday and compared exactly these two skills - some hours later a diligent minion posts about this on forums :trollface:

/Edit: Ok, the comparison was on stream and is not in this video, but you can still watch it on twitch...

@"syszery.1592" said:To sum up: A former pro player and active PvP streamer made a rant/change-wish video on YouTube yesterday and compared exactly these two skills - some hours later a diligent minion posts about this on forums :trollface:

/Edit: Ok, the comparison was on stream and is not in this video, but you can still watch it on twitch...

Lol nothing wrong with learning from someone that has more experience than yourself. And there is nothing wrong if it makes a valid point and I want to bring it to the forums for open discussion. Plus, I made it in a question so I can get the point of view from both side. Yes, I was a bit mad but people here are making valid points so it is helping me see it better.

But you... calling me a minion and to "sum up" for us and want to end it with a sarcastic attitude is the cancer that an open forum doesn't need right now. PLUS, you didn't give your input as well so why would I bother with your opinion now? :)

@Xenji.4907 said:

@"syszery.1592" said:To sum up: A former pro player and active PvP streamer made a rant/change-wish video on YouTube yesterday and compared exactly these two skills - some hours later a diligent minion posts about this on forums :trollface:

/Edit: Ok, the comparison was on stream and is not in this video, but you can still watch it on twitch...

You could have linked the video yourself instead of presenting the comparison as your own opinion/thoughts...

On topic: Also, I haven't seen anyone here who argues against the things he said in this video... The skill is heavily overloaded, giving you basically an undodgeable DJ plus 15% damage modifier plus stab/prot remove plus heavy poison stack on a 30s cd lol. And since it is useable while stealth without tell/reveal it makes things even more ridiculous... It was just a bad/desperate decision to pack all that Cursed Bullet to into this skill.

Edit: Just in case someone will bring up that I said a while ago there would be counter play: Yes, there is counter play the only problem people have is that the window to react is so small that hardly anyone will be quick enough to act properly...

@syszery.1592 said:

@Xenji.4907 said:

@syszery.1592 said:To sum up: A former pro player and active PvP streamer made a rant/change-wish video on YouTube yesterday and compared exactly these two skills - some hours later a diligent minion posts about this on forums :trollface:

/Edit: Ok, the comparison was on stream and is not in this video, but you can still watch it on twitch...

Bandit's Defense is the one skill that can shutdown this toxic combo. Break CC and block DJ in one press of a button.

@syszery.1592 said:

On topic: Also, I haven't seen anyone here who argues against the things he said in this video... The skill is heavily overloaded, giving you basically an undodgeable DJ plus 15% damage modifier plus stab/prot remove plus heavy poison stack on a 30s cd lol. And since it is useable while stealth without tell/reveal it makes things even more ridiculous... It was just a bad/desperate decision to pack all that Cursed Bullet to into this skill.

This skill is completely overloaded yes but even in this state there are utilities far more better to choose for a rifle deadeye.Maybe if a non rifle deadeye build emerge, binding shadow will become a real thing.

I said this in another thread but to fix deadeye you need to change 3 things: DJ, Binding shadow and stealth on dodge.tbh just remove stealth on dodge and we are good, that thing shouldn't have never existed in the first place

come on anet pof hype is dead, better you start nerfing your bs specs.

@Xenji.4907 said:

@"syszery.1592" said:To sum up: A former pro player and active PvP streamer made a rant/change-wish video on YouTube yesterday and compared exactly these two skills - some hours later a diligent minion posts about this on forums :trollface:

/Edit: Ok, the comparison was on stream and is not in this video, but you can still watch it on twitch...

the issue with his argument is that BV is clearly balanced for a team playing thief compared to BS which seems more for the 1v1 DE. the issues with BS are the issues of DE in general but this has nothing to do with nor does it matter to BV.

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@syszery.1592 said:

@Xenji.4907 said:

@syszery.1592 said:To sum up: A former pro player and active PvP streamer made a rant/change-wish video on YouTube yesterday and compared exactly these two skills - some hours later a diligent minion posts about this on forums :trollface:

/Edit: Ok, the comparison was on stream and is not in this video, but you can still watch it on twitch...

Yes, there is counter play. Basically all skills that are stun break plus a blocking, dodging or immune effect. You just need to press the button instead of trying to dodge the DJ :) But I think why people are mad is because there is no tell that the DE used the skill (if stealthed) besides the knock down. This is quite unique I think...

@Jumpel.3972 said:

@syszery.1592 said:

On topic: Also, I haven't seen anyone here who argues against the things he said in this video... The skill is heavily overloaded, giving you basically an undodgeable DJ plus 15% damage modifier plus stab/prot remove plus heavy poison stack on a 30s cd lol. And since it is useable while stealth without tell/reveal it makes things even more ridiculous... It was just a bad/desperate decision to pack all that Cursed Bullet to into this skill.

I don't know if "far better" is accurate since the skill is quite good, enables a hard hitting combo on it's own and is on a very short CD. But I agree that it is not necessary to be successful as Deadeye.

Edit: I think it also depends on the game mode... People tend to mix up WvW and sPvP and in my opinion it definitely makes a difference here.

@syszery.1592 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@syszery.1592 said:

@Xenji.4907 said:

@syszery.1592 said:To sum up: A former pro player and active PvP streamer made a rant/change-wish video on YouTube yesterday and compared exactly these two skills - some hours later a diligent minion posts about this on forums :trollface:

/Edit: Ok, the comparison was on stream and is not in this video, but you can still watch it on twitch...

@Jumpel.3972 said:

@syszery.1592 said:

On topic: Also, I haven't seen anyone here who argues against the things he said in this video... The skill is heavily overloaded, giving you basically an undodgeable DJ plus 15% damage modifier plus stab/prot remove plus heavy poison stack on a 30s cd lol. And since it is useable while stealth without tell/reveal it makes things even more ridiculous... It was just a bad/desperate decision to pack all that Cursed Bullet to into this skill.

yea 15k combo with 0,3 s tell is hella unique :lol:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:You have to sacrifice a whole traitline and Steal to get Binding Shadow. That cost is a lot. If I can use either one in my Core build, then it's a sound concern. The fact that I have to give up a traitline plus Steal makes Binding Shadow not worth it. Unless of course you're already playing DE, which means Binding Shadow supersedes BV, just like the Elite Spec traitline supersedes a Core.

BV is not a good Elite to begin with anyway, most of the venoms aren't good.

The first problem with the Venom is not the cooldown, but the fact that you cannot stack them together. I should be able to stack a damaging venom with a non-dmg venom, for instance, Basilisk + Spider or Ice Drake + Skale.

Second, Venoms should have a passive effect. Taking up a skill slot and doing nothing makes them useless. It would be better if I gain a Poison Aura when I have Spider Venom equip. Anyone who touch me gets poison. I mean Venom Aura is already baseline and this should be the effect in addition to venom share. If an ally touch me, they get venom on their weapons. If an enemy touch me, they get condition.

Or Venom application to my weapons should be automatic. So every 30s, Spider Venom is applied to my weapon whether I used up the stacks or not. Activating the skill would instead allow me to throw a vial of venom for an AoE condition effect. Meaning, throwing a Spider Venom will create a poison cloud.

But this is off topic so I digress.

To your first point. Yes you get rid of steal and DD, but it's not like mark and DE are garbage by comparison. IMHO. Agreed on your other points though.

Well, a good way to "adjust" Binding Shadow would be to add a 2s reveal when casting so people will always see the tell of this skill.

@"Jumpel.3972" said:Well, a good way to "adjust" Binding Shadow would be to add a 2s reveal when casting so people will always see the tell of this skill.

and it would be unable to be used to setup a DJ.i would prefer to just make the visual part on the opponents body visible when stealthed, i think there might be technical issues to make the smoke visible from the deadeye to the target while the deadeye is stealthed, but i guess they can make the animation on the opponents body visible.

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Jumpel.3972" said:Well, a good way to "adjust" Binding Shadow would be to add a 2s reveal when casting so people will always see the tell of this skill.

ofc it would be possible to set up dj, u got ur elite skill. with 2 charges. if u want to make 15k hits, at least put some ressources into it